View Full Version : A dear friend has gone off the political deep end
flowerseverywhere
12-3-18, 9:45pm
I have a very dear friend of many years. As time goes by, she is turning an almost hysterical person. Yesterday she told me anyone who voted or supports Trump is evil and racist. She thinks we should let everyone in that wants to, allow everyone here illegally to become citizens. So I asked what about the 65 million refugees in camps. Well they should all be let in according to her. Plenty of room in our country.
Then I was talking about some of the volunteer work I was doing through a local church. Food bank, school tutoring type of stuff. She thought the government should be taking care of everyone, provide English lessons, food stamps, housing and medical care for all these people. Just raise taxes on rich people.
But the worst thing was that she is so angry. She included me on an email with some like thinking persons, they were going on about how they can’t wait for Trump to be Impeached and things like he only works two hours a day, lots of unsubstantiated accusations. I asked them not to include me in political emails.
So so far I have kept calm and try to steer her away from politics, but she is obsessed. I don’t want to cut off a 40 year friendship. I did not vote for Trump, and I don’t like a lot of his politics, his name calling, outright lies etc. but this extreme far left stance is way too much. I find it just as bad as the far right rhetoric.
I put this in politics because i was sure it would become about politics instead of interpersonal relations quickly.
It may be diificult for her to sustain the intensity of these views long term. Do not try to debate her. If she insists on proselytizing minimize contact with her until he is no longer president. By then she should burnt out and/or calmed down.
This is one reason I got off Facebook.
Teacher Terry
12-3-18, 10:12pm
It’s not healthy to let something you have no control over consume you. She is only hurting herself. Hopefully, your friendship can survive this.
I have had a similar situation with a long term friend. We worked together, played sports together, and shared a few family functions. He went off the political deep end for some reason, only in this case Obama was the cause of all his troubles and the downfall of the country. Our discussions became almost exclusively about politics. I think he might be described in contemporary terms as the angry white person. Oddly enough, when 45 became president things really didn't change. There was always some external situation beyond his control that was causing some degree of angst and focus. I still consider him a friend, but just had to limit time I could spend with him. I'd always come away from our visits with bad vibes. Maybe there are people like that who have a void or empty space in their lives and politics is in the news so much they just get caught up.
What ever it it, I don't think it's healthy to be around people who focus exclusively on negative things and ignore other joys of life. If I could suggest anything at all by my humble understanding of people, maybe you friend could get involved in some challenging projects, maybe volunteering to help others or a hobby or sport of some sort.
I enjoy political discussions and am not immune to getting angry sometimes, but it' sort of like the weather. There is not a lot that the average person can do to change things and it's just not worth being overly angry about it. There are many pleasures in life and too little time to enjoy all of them.
ApatheticNoMore
12-4-18, 1:02am
Yesterday she told me anyone who voted or supports Trump is evil and racist.
isn't this a fairly typical viewpoint for those who don't like Trump? The r accusation? I did not say it was a view I hold. Just a fairly typical viewpoint.
She thinks we should let everyone in that wants to, allow everyone here illegally to become citizens. So I asked what about the 65 million refugees in camps. Well they should all be let in according to her. Plenty of room in our country.
not that uncommon a view either though I doubt it's a majority view. But quite likely the view of the new governor here.
they were going on about how they can’t wait for Trump to be Impeached and things like he only works two hours a day, lots of unsubstantiated accusations. I asked them not to include me in political emails.
this was probably a creative extrapolation from a NYT article on Trump's t.v. viewing, trying to guess how many hours he has to work left:
https://thehill.com/homenews/administration/364094-trump-watches-at-least-four-hours-of-tv-per-day-report
iris lilies
12-4-18, 1:34am
If your friend has become a bore, you have to extract yourself from the friendship. That is what happens to bores, they loose their friends. It is a hazard of their condition.
Gardenarian
12-4-18, 2:09am
+1
flowerseverywhere
12-4-18, 8:39am
Everything you all have said is true. This is someone who I have really cherished as a friend and I am so sorry to see this happening. The part that was the hardest for me is not the actual political part, because I know we have become a nation divided. We have allowed the 24 hour biased news media and social media to spread half truths and downright lies which we are eager to believe if it fits our agenda.
What I find the saddest is she is destroying herself over things which she has no control. For instance, although I am very far from being religious, I have become involved in a local church that does great humanitarian work domestically. My quilt group has been helping victims of the Panhandle devastation, sending bedding, new clothes, Walmart cards and food through a member who has family there and a church connection that has people sleeping in its church. Just trying to do something in the hopes that 85% of what we gather and donate is doing its intended job. I cannot do anything about some people who might try to cheat the system. I have to believe in the good of humanity as a whole. She disagreed with me and said she sees nothing good going on, this administration has destroyed everything. And the crazy thing that while Obama and Trump were blamed for every Ill, it truly is the fault of our congress that should have been all along passing immigration reforms, making tweaks to our taxes, gun laws and so on. Not total overhauls but dealing with one issue at a time and being sensible instead of the total far right or total far left responses. Their inaction and gridlock has greatly added to this.
It has has helped me immensely to put this down in words. And I have a plan.
i am going to visit her and tell her how I really feel. That she has become the most cynical and negative person I know and I see her destroying herself. It may ruin our friendship, but a true friend is honest. I am seeing her next week so I’ll report back. I have time to write out some thoughts and clarify my feelings so I can come across as kind and concerned, not totally aghast and horrified at her totally rigid negative stance.
How sad sad to be so consumed that it runs and ruins your life.
Ultralight
12-4-18, 8:40am
Some people can truly become deranged by an ideology if they are in an ideological and social bubble.
Ultralight
12-4-18, 8:41am
...raise taxes on rich people.
I agree with her on this point! :)
But the worst thing was that she is so angry. She included me on an email with some like thinking persons, they were going on about how they can’t wait for Trump to be Impeached and things like he only works two hours a day, lots of unsubstantiated accusations. I asked them not to include me in political emails.
(click on image for video)
https://www.facebook.com/DanVoils/videos/10156811530484731/
I think addressing this with you friend is a good idea. It wasn't me, but someone did this with my friend. I think he was basically told that people were avoiding him and and he was losing friends because of his angry obsession with politics. It helped a little but it was mostly temporary.
I also think Trump is evil and racist. But I don’t let that be my only thought or topic of conversation. :)
I know a woman who has strong opinions about the current administration. She stays abreast of the issues and calls and writes politicians routinely. She actually organized a group to meet with our senator and volunteers with political campaigns and went door to door in the last election. Someone who is active in trying to change things is a little easier to take than a perennial complainer. Maybe that is an angle with your friend. If she is so concerned maybe she should try to change things through the system.
Ultralight
12-4-18, 10:21am
My friends from the old neighborhood used to be centrist democrats. But they went far, far right during the Obama era. They went off the other deep end, I suppose. My mom says my dad with off the right-wing deep end.
Some people try using politics to fill voids in other areas of their social or spiritual lives. Others seek to use political scapegoats (the opposing party, the white cis male patriarchy, bankers, Big Anything, etc) in the same way our ancestors used witches, demons or evil spirits. These people are the natural prey of gimcrack ideologies and political tribalism.
Ultralight
12-4-18, 10:41am
Some people try using politics to fill voids in other areas of their social or spiritual lives. Others seek to use political scapegoats (the opposing party, the white cis male patriarchy, bankers, Big Anything, etc) in the same way our ancestors used witches, demons or evil spirits. These people are the natural prey of gimcrack ideologies and political tribalism.
I think there is some truth to this. People of all political views can do this. It is easy enough.
Was it on this forum and if so, who was it that said the far left has become rather "Calvinistic?"
When I first started reading your post my immediate thought was "oh, I bet this person was a Trump fan." I was actually pretty surprised when I got to the part where you said she was anti-Trump.
I hope your visit and talk goes well it it gives her something to think about.
iris lilies
12-4-18, 11:26am
(click on image for video)
https://www.facebook.com/DanVoils/videos/10156811530484731/
This is funny! You all should watch this, even it you just watch a minute of it—funny!
ApatheticNoMore
12-4-18, 12:00pm
I also think Trump is evil and racist. But I don’t let that be my only thought or topic of conversation.
I think it was less the views which seem bog standard among a certain set (and honestly how many minorities don't see some racist tinge or more to trump supporters unless they too support trump) but the stridency with which they were expressed and obsessed over. So it's about stridency and rants. I mean if I was trying to totally avoid such views in this blue-ville, I'd have my work cut out for me, half the local plays put on now seem about racism etc.. (I don't expect them to be Republican of course, that's not the crowd putting on community theater). Some of them are classic plays.
I think there is some truth to this. People of all political views can do this. It is easy enough.
Was it on this forum and if so, who was it that said the far left has become rather "Calvinistic?"
Well, there does seem to be an element of predestination in the idea that our opinions and attitudes must be a function of race, gender, culture or class. Substitute the woke for the Elect of God and the deplorables for the Living Damned, and you may be on to something. Callout culture seems to have much in common with a Great Awakening revival meeting.
I don’t recall it on this forum but I don’t doubt the analogy was probably made elsewhere.
rosarugosa
12-4-18, 2:46pm
Alan: That video was hilarious. So well done and so true!
ToomuchStuff
12-4-18, 4:56pm
(click on image for video)
https://www.facebook.com/DanVoils/videos/10156811530484731/
I came here to post this, after seeing it over at the pistol forum. Is that where you found it?
I came here to post this, after seeing it over at the pistol forum. Is that where you found it?
Nope.....Facebook
Teacher Terry
12-4-18, 5:37pm
Alan, that’s hysterical!
flowerseverywhere
12-5-18, 9:13am
Alan, your video was spot on and hysterical. My friend did not find it funny when I sent it to her. Imagine that.
Despite all the recountdrama and hysteria in Florida here is a fascinating opinion on how the Republicans handled the Hispanic voting bloc better. In fairness to the dem Governor candidate, he was not expected to win the primary, and had nowhere near the name recognition and war chest Scott did, who may have carried DeSantis on his coattails. But he did quite well, especially for a black man in the south. Also, his ideas may have been too far left for some, such as Medicare for all. But that is one of the current downfalls of the Democrats. You can’t run a campaign without understanding your constituents and reaching out to them. You cannot assume your opinion should be or is theirs. Which goes for the Republicans as well.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/12/04/democrats-hispanic-voters-2020-222751 (https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2018/12/04/democrats-hispanic-voters-2020-222751)
Demographics is not necessarily destiny.
Demographics is not necessarily destiny.
True, although the republicans are certainly working overtime to try and make it so. It's not that most immigrants have wildly left views that make them vote democratic, it's that the republicans actively try to turn them away every chance they get. California didn't go crazy blue until the republican's ill-fated, and ultimately decided illegal Prop 187 got democrats to turn a generation and counting of Hispanic voters into democrats.
True, although the republicans are certainly working overtime to try and make it so. It's not that most immigrants have wildly left views that make them vote democratic, it's that the republicans actively try to turn them away every chance they get. California didn't go crazy blue until the republican's ill-fated, and ultimately decided illegal Prop 187 got democrats to turn a generation and counting of Hispanic voters into democrats.
I question the long term strategic value of simply assuming your opponents are racist idiots and you therefore will always own certain voting blocks if you make the accusation frequently and loudly.
Part of the reason California is so crazy blue is the out-migration of a middle class increasingly unable to bear the cost of all that blue craziness.
flowerseverywhere
12-6-18, 12:16pm
I question the long term strategic value of simply assuming your opponents are racist idiots and you therefore will always own certain voting blocks if you make the accusation frequently and loudly.
Part of the reason California is so crazy blue is the out-migration of a middle class increasingly unable to bear the cost of all that blue craziness.
Yes, thinking all trump supporters are racist idiots is wrong and untrue. Some are racist, some are idiots, and some are both. Some Democrats are idiots and some are socialists.
Last night i was with two women who listen to conservative (hate) radio and Fox Opinion aka news all day. Some of the things they said were so untrue it was laughable. Like 67% of all welfare benefits go to illegals. Untrue. My sibling administrated welfare benefits and there are strict laws about illegals and refugees. another one repeated a story that the presidents were all standing around when Trump arrived yesterday at Bush’s funeral and they all walked away. Not true. They were sitting in a pew, Michelle graciously offered and handshake and smile to the Trumps and Obama did shake their hands. The carters were far down the pew and the Clintons did ignore him pretty much. But he could have walked down in front of the row of ex potus and flouts for a greeting. Hillary and Bill could have given a cordial nod. The door swings both ways.
Another laughable comment was “someone told me trump only works two hours a day”. I said “do you seriously thin that even makes sense?”
so whether you watch Fake CNN News (opinion) or fake Fox News (opinion) you are getting a very biased view of what really is happening. Think a little bit before you accept any news story. Some make no sense at all. Yet people believe every word like it is the indisputable truth.
gimmethesimplelife
12-6-18, 1:02pm
Where I live in the 85006 I am very fortunate for one thing that this topic nails down - I enjoy living amongst like minded people. It is pretty much an automatic assumption here that you are going to be anti Trump and vote Democrat. I am aware with the newcomers streaming into the West Side of the 85006 - the Coronado Neighborhood - there are now some Conservatives in the zip code but not over on my side and these people tend to cluster together and keep to themselves. Point being, where I live this is pretty much a non-issue as it's a given you are going to be a Democrat.
Now in the world beyond my neighborhood, I keep my lips zipped on politics, even with people I know to be Liberal. Outside of the 85006 I don't have the home court advantage and something I've noticed, especially amongst younger folks - those who have not been in life positions where they have learned to fear America can get upset over the most mind boggling things - there is no way to know when such people will be triggered or what will indeed trigger them so I avoid discussions regarding sex, religion, and politics and have cut way back down on discussing anything at all regarding my personal life in the workplace since the MeTooMovment.
I see it this way. To talk about such topics outside of the 85006 is to risk working for free in America - meaning loss of any investments or savings or assets via litigation. I'm not willing to take this risk - America overall is not worth it, I learned years ago that this is not truly a free country (so I'm not as put off as many by having to keep the reality to the neighborhood), and working these days for many people is similar to enter a war zone of sorts - why put at risk what you are able to wheel away (savings) from a situation of hostile open warfare? Granted this characterization of the workplace does seem a little over the top even to me until I realize I mean war in psychological terms.
At any rate, I recommend being very careful overall IRL who you choose to discuss politics with. Such discussions can have consequences - consequences that will make you view America never again the same should you suffer them. Rob
Where I live in the 85006 I am very fortunate for one thing that this topic nails down - I enjoy living amongst like minded people. It is pretty much an automatic assumption here that you are going to be anti Trump and vote Democrat. I am aware with the newcomers streaming into the West Side of the 85006 - the Coronado Neighborhood - there are now some Conservatives in the zip code but not over on my side and these people tend to cluster together and keep to themselves. Point being, where I live this is pretty much a non-issue as it's a given you are going to be a Democrat.
Now in the world beyond my neighborhood, I keep my lips zipped on politics, even with people I know to be Liberal. Outside of the 85006 I don't have the home court advantage and something I've noticed, especially amongst younger folks - those who have not been in life positions where they have learned to fear America can get upset over the most mind boggling things - there is no way to know when such people will be triggered or what will indeed trigger them so I avoid discussions regarding sex, religion, and politics and have cut way back down on discussing anything at all regarding my personal life in the workplace since the MeTooMovment.
I see it this way. To talk about such topics outside of the 85006 is to risk working for free in America - meaning loss of any investments or savings or assets via litigation. I'm not willing to take this risk - America overall is not worth it, I learned years ago that this is not truly a free country (so I'm not as put off as many by having to keep the reality to the neighborhood), and working these days for many people is similar to enter a war zone of sorts - why put at risk what you are able to wheel away (savings) from a situation of hostile open warfare? Granted this characterization of the workplace does seem a little over the top even to me until I realize I mean war in psychological terms.
At any rate, I recommend being very careful overall IRL who you choose to discuss politics with. Such discussions can have consequences - consequences that will make you view America never again the same should you suffer them. Rob
I’m not sure I follow you. I’ll admit I find some of your opinions to be unorthodox, but I don’t see why you’d be afraid of litigation for expressing them in the wrong company.
I question the long term strategic value of simply assuming your opponents are racist idiots and you therefore will always own certain voting blocks if you make the accusation frequently and loudly.
As long as the republicans main efforts with regard to minority voters is to try and thwart them rather than court them I don't think the democrats have much to worry about.
Teacher Terry
12-6-18, 3:12pm
I don’t discuss politics with random people. I also don’t let people discuss it if I am having a party. Most of my friends are Democrats and DH a Republican and it would not be respectful towards him.
As long as the republicans main efforts with regard to minority voters is to try and thwart them rather than court them I don't think the democrats have much to worry about.
As Flowers pointed out, that would not appear to have happened to your satisfaction in Florida.
One fairly reliable warning sign of fatal hubris is the assumption of inevitability. I’m thinking of all those times President Obama placed himself on the favorable side of “the arc of history”. Or the absolute faith Mrs. Clinton had that her presidency was as inescapable as death.
It could be that the great demographic wave will wash away the iniquitous and lead to a new age of rule by an aristocracy of the compassionate. Or it could be that alliances could shift and interests redefined. Or even that large numbers simply decline to participate in the culture wars. A lot could happen in the next generation or so.
I wonder if it’s ever the case that a party that feels there’s little to worry about has completely thought things through; and whether their allies and opponents will always follow the script.
Rick Scott does seem to have taken a different tactic regarding the Hispanic/Latino population. Probably because Florida is 25% Hispanic/Latino (compared to just over 8% nationwide) and calling 25% of the voting population rapists and murderers is probably not a winning strategy. If most republicans followed his lead I'd be concerned because you're right, Hispanic/Latino people are not innately more liberal than white folks. But the majority of republican politicians seem to be following the trump mode on this issue. If I remember correctly after their failures of 2012 the republicans did a postmortem that concluded that their long term success was likely to be hampered if they didn't adopt a platform that minorities found more appealing than their current 'minorities are a problem for this this and this reason' platform. Aside from Rick Scott I haven't seen much change on this issue. Even Marco Rubio has since abandoned his efforts at making immigration reform happen.
Florida is also a bit of an outlier because the majority of their Hispanic/Latino population are Puerto Rican or Cuban and thus not affected by the immigration issues that affect the majority of the country.
It will also be interesting to see how the implementation of Prop 4 in Florida, which restores voting rights of felons who have finished paying their debt to society, affects things. Will the formerly disenfranchised felons vote? Will they lean democrat? Who knows. But we're talking about more than a million potential new voters. The state has in recent history been very closely divided in presidential elections. Even a relatively small shift blue because of prop 4 could make all the difference.
gimmethesimplelife
12-7-18, 2:08am
Rick Scott does seem to have taken a different tactic regarding the Hispanic/Latino population. Probably because Florida is 25% Hispanic/Latino (compared to just over 8% nationwide) and calling 25% of the voting population rapists and murderers is probably not a winning strategy. If most republicans followed his lead I'd be concerned because you're right, Hispanic/Latino people are not innately more liberal than white folks. But the majority of republican politicians seem to be following the trump mode on this issue. If I remember correctly after their failures of 2012 the republicans did a postmortem that concluded that their long term success was likely to be hampered if they didn't adopt a platform that minorities found more appealing than their current 'minorities are a problem for this this and this reason' platform. Aside from Rick Scott I haven't seen much change on this issue. Even Marco Rubio has since abandoned his efforts at making immigration reform happen.
Florida is also a bit of an outlier because the majority of their Hispanic/Latino population are Puerto Rican or Cuban and thus not affected by the immigration issues that affect the majority of the country.
It will also be interesting to see how the implementation of Prop 4 in Florida, which restores voting rights of felons who have finished paying their debt to society, affects things. Will the formerly disenfranchised felons vote? Will they lean democrat? Who knows. But we're talking about more than a million potential new voters. The state has in recent history been very closely divided in presidential elections. Even a relatively small shift blue because of prop 4 could make all the difference.Wow, I had no idea that there were over one million convicted felons in Florida.....that's amazing. That's a little more than the population of the city of Austin, Texas (not including suburbs and outlying areas). I find this statistic amazing and more than a little chilling. Rob
Wow, I had no idea that there were over one million convicted felons in Florida.....that's amazing. That's a little more than the population of the city of Austin, Texas (not including suburbs and outlying areas). I find this statistic amazing and more than a little chilling. Rob
It’s actually almost 1.7 million prople. Over 10% of the state’s population.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Felon_disenfranchisement_in_Florida?wprov=sfti1
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