View Full Version : Are you or are you not a minimalist?
Ultralight
12-7-18, 9:47pm
Certainly there are many ways to live simply. One of those ways is "minimalism."
And over the past several days or so a few of the threads in here contained the terms minimalism or minimalist.
I am curious. Who on here identifies as minimalist and who doesn't? Explanations are encouraged.
:)
Chicken lady
12-7-18, 10:56pm
Not.
obviously.
SteveinMN
12-8-18, 12:01am
Not me. Attached to too much stuff for anyone to call me a minimalist.
Gardenarian
12-8-18, 12:41am
Nope.
I want my house to be comfortable, esthetically pleasing, and low maintenance (it's a work in progress.)
I do have more clothes than I need, and I'm working on that (just gave away 5 big boxes, it's terrible!)
For the most part, the stuff I have is well used - even if it's only that I like looking at it (art & stuff.) I could definitely clear out some sentimental stuff, but it's not something I spend a lot of time thinking about. I don't feel as though my possessions are holding me back in any way.
My DH is a little bit of a hoarder, so there's that too.
Do many minimalists own houses? A lot of my things are just for maintenance of house and garden. But, I do like owning my house
iris lilies
12-8-18, 2:55am
No.
No. Certainly not in the way you use the term. I am fairly intentional on what stays in my home (and why it is there in the first place), but there's way too much stuff to be "minimalist".
Wannabe minimalist. I drool over monk's quarters. I cried when my parents bought a second TV. My heroes are Thoreau and the Nearings.
What has kept me from walking that path myself--probably just a scatter-brained personality and a lack of commitment to letting go of things. I think you have to be focused to be aware when things are piling up and then be disciplined enough to get rid of things on a regular basis. Also, having lived in one house for 33 years, raising 4 kids doesn't help, and having a garage to stick all the old stuff doesn't help.
But I stuck to my resolve to bring stuff to Vermont on an "as needed" basis, and I have been successful there. All my clothes fit into about 18 inches of hanging space and two small drawers. I only brought up my "must have" books, which totaled maybe 7--I have tons of shelf space left. And I weigh the need for kitchen stuff scrupulously. I'm still not convinced I need a toaster, and I've made do with a skillet, one dutch oven, two saucepans, and one baking pan for cooking.
And when I lived out of a hotel room for 3 months with 2 kids, I did it happily with one small suitcase, so I know there's a minimalist inside me crying to come out.
I hired a videographer once who lived in a 500 sq ft apartment in Manhattan with his fiancee. I met him just when we had bought the Grand Isle house and I was worried about co-existing in a small space with DH. He said it was no problem for him, but he's ruthless. If his fiancee brings something in, they immediately get rid of something. He said he's very organized. Coats get hung up right away. Everything has its place. I think that's how you have to be.
rosarugosa
12-8-18, 8:20am
Definitely not me. I enjoy having nice material possessions, but in recent years, I've become more mindful about their acquisition and retention.
happystuff
12-8-18, 9:13am
I like to think I have the minimalist's mentally and am definitely working towards that lifestyle, but I will admit to having a long, long way to go. But I remain ever hopeful.
Ultralight
12-8-18, 9:26am
I like to think I have the minimalist's mentally and am definitely working towards that lifestyle, but I will admit to having a long, long way to go. But I remain ever hopeful.
Well, I started minimalism in 2009. I did not reach "click-point" until 2014.
Definitely not me. I enjoy having nice material possessions, but in recent years, I've become more mindful about their acquisition and retention.
That just about covers it for me as well.
I am. Husband is not although he lives more lightly than most Americans. Anyone visiting us would think we have a neatly kept, practical, almost sparse, but comfortable home. But about 80% of our stuff is actually his stuff.
No. As I've declared before--plenty of time to be a minimalist when I'm carted off to the home for the feeble and feeble minded.:welcome:
This is a material world, and I take full advantage of that--so, many pairs of shoes and no hair shirt.
I do minimize situations that "spark annoyance" (love that!) like work, chores, and most people.
Teacher Terry
12-8-18, 12:07pm
No I love the stuff I have chosen to keep. In the last 10 years I have gotten rid of tons of stuff. I have reduced what I think is necessary for instance I only have 2 sets of sheets for each bed. In the past I probably had 4. I have really downsized the nic-naks so dusting is fast. I have gotten rid of all my collections. A friend of mine was over last night and wanted to do the same. I told her to give her collections to fundraising when they are looking for silent auction items. She really liked that idea.
I'm about as minimal as I have ever been because I have to be, living in such a small space. I purge items that are no longer useful to me - this morning on my daily walk I am going to take a man's thrift store white button down shirt that I used as a costume piece in our latest production and two pairs of socks that annoy me up to our town's "Free Box" to donate. I have gotten my wardrobe down to what I really like,that actually fit well and then make a point of wearing everything. I have to have enough things to wear because I only do laundry about every 2.5 to 3 weeks and have to drive all the way into Santa Fe to do it at the laundromat. But everything fits on one of those cheapo garment racks I have set up at the foot of my bed and into some wooden shelves I use for storing clothing. My boots and shoes goes there as well. Summer stuff I put in a bin stored underneath the bed. My coats and jackets that I actively wear hangs on hooks on the back of the door, along with some scarves and winter hats.
Chicken lady
12-8-18, 12:40pm
I have minimized the dusting. Lol!
the studio where I take classes is participating in a program that lets kids who are in shelter/transitional housing/section 8 “shop” for Christmas gifts for their parents. Because it’s a pottery studio, we are collecting lots of mugs and vases, but we can donate anything, so I am going to sort through my costume jewelry and collection of little gift boxes.
ApatheticNoMore
12-8-18, 12:45pm
no, I see the advantage, it makes moving easier mostly, and maybe tidying and finding stuff. I like some of my stuff but mostly it's not even that.
Ultralight
12-8-18, 1:40pm
No. As I've declared before--plenty of time to be a minimalist when I'm carted off to the home for the feeble and feeble minded.:welcome:
This is a material world, and I take full advantage of that--so, many pairs of shoes and no hair shirt.
I do minimize situations that "spark annoyance" (love that!) like work, chores, and most people.
Thou doth protest too much. Could you perhaps have hoarding problem? It is one of those vices that is quite easily disguised as a virtue.
Ultralight
12-8-18, 1:41pm
I am. Husband is not although he lives more lightly than most Americans. Anyone visiting us would think we have a neatly kept, practical, almost sparse, but comfortable home. But about 80% of our stuff is actually his stuff.
Wow! So 20 percent of the household items are yours. I am imagining you being quite minimalist!
Thou doth protest too much. Could you perhaps have hoarding problem? It is one of those vices that is quite easily disguised as a virtue.
I'm not protesting. I'm answering your question--which I should have probably learned not to do by now, as your questions aren't due to interest, but only serve as openings for the usual BDSM.
I do hoard certain things, like art supplies, and I'm fine with that.
Ultralight
12-8-18, 3:26pm
I'm not protesting. I'm answering your question--which I should have probably learned not to do by now, as your questions aren't due to interest, but only serve as openings for the usual BDSM.
Oooookay, Jane. lol
Ultralight
12-8-18, 3:31pm
Do many minimalists own houses? A lot of my things are just for maintenance of house and garden. But, I do like owning my house
It varies greatly! Joshua Becker owns a very normal house in a suburb of Phoenix. He has a wife and two kids. He is one of the foremost authorities on Minimalism.
This documentary shows the incredible diversity of minimalist lifestyles. Becker plays a big part in this documentary.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Co1Iptd4p4
Leo Babauta is another minimalist forerunner. He has a wife and six kids! He is the only member of the household who is a minimalist. He is also in the documentary. But I think he lives in a townhouse.
Ultralight
12-8-18, 3:48pm
Watch me respond to your comments with the same level of snark and tone you did.
No. As I've declared before--plenty of time to be a minimalist when I'm carted off to the home for the feeble and feeble minded.:welcome:
That must be your own personal hell -- to be forcibly separated from the stuff from which you must glean meaning and some hollow emotional "fulfillment?"
For your sake, I hope that is not any time soon!
This is a material world, and I take full advantage of that--so, many pairs of shoes and no hair shirt.
Well, it was a more natural world. But all the extraneous shoes and other pointless stuff turned much of this planet into a cesspool of waste and pollution. Good job, Jane! Revel in the cesspool!
I do minimize situations that "spark annoyance" (love that!) like work, chores, and most people.
Clinging to material possessions can often be one of the final refuges of a person who cannot connect to others mentally or emotionally. Perhaps seeing a therapist would help.
And now go back and read the responses of others and my responses to them. See the difference.
Here is where you say: "Point taken, point understood."
Teacher Terry
12-8-18, 3:55pm
I disagree UL. Just because Jane likes her stuff doesn’t mean she can’t relate to people or needs therapy.
Ultralight
12-8-18, 4:01pm
I disagree UL. Just because Jane likes her stuff doesn’t mean she can’t relate to people or needs therapy.
I know that. haha
Did you read my explanation above?
Just because I don't like stuff and I am an extreme minimalist does not mean I am into "hair shirts."
She tried to create a false dichotomy between Hair shirting OR hundreds of pairs of shoes.
There are many paths to and within minimalism.
Do you disagree or agree with another of my other statements in that post? Any of hers?
ToomuchStuff
12-8-18, 4:14pm
Thou doth protest too much. Could you perhaps have hoarding problem? It is one of those vices that is quite easily disguised as a virtue.
What you view as a problem could be right sized for someone else. Your coming across as "better then" again.
I disagree UL. Just because Jane likes her stuff doesn’t mean she can’t relate to people or needs therapy.
Oh Lord. I skip most of UL's posts, so I missed this. Par for the course.
I'm definitely not a minimalist. I have a box with 20 years worth of every computer cable I've ever owned to prove it. And just this week two of them are seeing use for the first time in probably a decade.
Chicken lady
12-8-18, 5:29pm
Hang on UL. I have heard you talk about throwing things away a just to not have them. Sometimes things that definitely had more potential use.
last week, I generated two tightly tied plastic grocery bags of garbage. This was generated by ALL food acquisition, health, and hygiene needs for two humans, 16 goats, 13 chickens, a rabbit, and a cat. Plus some minor construction and the packing tape and minimal other non recyclable side effects of ordering Christmas gifts for seven people by mail (less environmental impact than shopping in a store due to my location)
you are a single person with a dog. Do you generate less garbage than I do? Do you obtain all your items second hand a packaging free? I’m not sure what your trash output is, but i’m Also not sure you get to lecture people about their environmental impact - feel free to debate.
ApatheticNoMore
12-8-18, 5:57pm
you are a single person with a dog. Do you generate less garbage than I do? Do you obtain all your items second hand a packaging free? I’m not sure what your trash output is, but i’m Also not sure you get to lecture people about their environmental impact - feel free to debate.
i honestly don't think the environmental impact thrown in this thread was even sincere, it was just any stick to beat Jane with or something.
Ultralight
12-8-18, 6:41pm
i honestly don't think the environmental impact thrown in this thread was even sincere, it was just any stick to beat Jane with or something.
No, actually environmentalism does inform my minimalism. They ain't makin' all them shoes Jane referred to for me!
Ultralight
12-8-18, 6:50pm
No. As I've declared before--plenty of time to be a minimalist when I'm carted off to the home for the feeble and feeble minded.:welcome:
This is a material world, and I take full advantage of that--so, many pairs of shoes and no hair shirt.
Soooooo... not of this sounds "better than?" Come on now. It is time for a little intellectual honesty.
Williamsmith
12-8-18, 8:12pm
UL, you seem to love to compare your brand of minimalism to others lifestyles for the purpose of making yourself feel good. While you claim to be an atheist, your minimalism has religious overtones. I observe your conversations with female forum members and am not surprised that you seem to shed girlfriends as easily as you rid yourself of silverware. Your minimalism will suit you the minute you realize you don’t have to proselytize about it anymore.
Teacher Terry
12-8-18, 8:53pm
I read that now China is no longer taking our recycling and a third of plastic we put in the recycling bins ends up in the garbage. It’s because it’s been contaminated or not clean enough.
UL, so many threads on minimalism. Do you just dream of new ways to ask the same question? Are you looking for further proof that no one else wants only 100 things so you win?
I've said it before. Compared the average American we are minimalist. Per the actual definition and photos of empty rooms, empty walls, 2 cups/plates/bowls because we have 2 people in our home.....NO we are not.
Teacher Terry
12-8-18, 10:17pm
It also depends on your lifestyle. How many people do you entertain at once?
ToomuchStuff
12-9-18, 10:22am
Soooooo... not of this sounds "better than?" Come on now. It is time for a little intellectual honesty.
Nope, not at all. It sounds like it could be rephrased as "currently having fun, and when I can or do no longer, will be different".
UL, you seem to love to compare your brand of minimalism to others lifestyles for the purpose of making yourself feel good. While you claim to be an atheist, your minimalism has religious overtones. I observe your conversations with female forum members and am not surprised that you seem to shed girlfriends as easily as you rid yourself of silverware. Your minimalism will suit you the minute you realize you don’t have to proselytize about it anymore.
A couple quotes about minimalism:
Minimalism isn't just about having less stuff, it is also about having a clear mind and a balanced life. Vanessa Webb
Minimalism isn't about removing things that you love, it is about removing things that distract you from things that you love. Joshua Becker
UL doesn't seem balanced by himself (hence needing to seek a life partner), and I am not sure about a clear mind. He also doesn't realize that some people have things that don't distract them, but is part of experiences they love (her wearing her shoes, etc).
He has been picking on this bone, long before chasing off members.
catherine
12-9-18, 11:15am
A couple quotes about minimalism:
Minimalism isn't just about having less stuff, it is also about having a clear mind and a balanced life. Vanessa Webb
Minimalism isn't about removing things that you love, it is about removing things that distract you from things that you love. Joshua Becker
.
Yes.
As these two quotes imply, while I certainly don't want to get into piggyback on the Jane-bashing comment re hair shirt, I don't agree that minimalism is necessarily a martyred life to the minimalist cause, or minimalism for the sake of minimalism (which UL may be guilty of). It's really about those two quotes that TMS posted.
For me, my mind is clearer when I have less stuff. I feel more focused, more in balance. This goes for the tsotchkes in the house (I hated all the knick-knacks my mother had all over the place). It also goes for clothes--I have less stress when I have fewer decisions to make with my simplified daily "uniforms." At the same time, I do feel that I am serving a greater purpose (less impact on the environment), but there's really no self-sacrifice there. I can buy myself many things, but don't, mainly because I'm simply not interested. One purse is enough. One pair of shoes is enough. One TV is enough. I break the one-is-enough rule when it comes to books. And in the past I broke it with my Vermont follk art collection of works by Warren Kimble and Stephen Huneck, but I'm over that now.
So no hair shirt here either.
early morning
12-9-18, 11:17am
Those are great quotes, tms. I like stuff. Mostly OLD stuff. I am not a minimalist, and I'm not going to apologize for it. I like simple (think Shaker), but I know myself well enough to know that I would not KEEP things simple. We buy almost nothing new (except groceries and sometimes appliances), although I generally won't buy a second hand mattress or upholstered furniture unless I know where it's been. And we sell a lot of old stuff, also. It's a second stream of income, my "play money". I know several self-proclaimed minimalists and to me, personally, their homes are bleak and ugly, and I think it's pretty stupid that when I'm invited in for coffee, I get a Styrofoam cup because they only own two mugs. A stack of single-use Styrofoam has the same spacial footprint as a 25 cent yard sale mug....and the mug is much less environmentally harmful. I enjoy my stuff, and when I don't, it will go. But for now, I love the connection I feel to the man or woman who turned my big wooden bowls and large spoons - and all the hard-working women who used used them to take care of their families. I like the hand-forged tools, the hand woven cloth, the carefully crafted furniture - but mostly I love the connection I feel, through these objects, to all the nameless, faceless people who lived, worked, loved, and made life as good as they could with what they had. I am grateful to them, and feel that I am honoring them through using and loving the everyday items they made and used. And I am even more grateful for what I have today, without the hard labor faced by common workers in centuries past. My "stuff" does not distract me from what I love, it connects me to it even more firmly.
I like TooMuchStuff's quote as well.
In citing (inciting, apparently :~)) the hair shirt, I was referring to people that make a fetish of their sacrifice/holiness/rejection of culture, et cetera, which few practice here. Though if you could get hair shirts in colors or patterns...oh, wait...
catherine
12-9-18, 11:29am
But for now, I love the connection I feel to the man or woman who turned my big wooden bowls and large spoons - and all the hard-working women who used used them to take care of their families. I like the hand-forged tools, the hand woven cloth, the carefully crafted furniture - but mostly I love the connection I feel, through these objects, to all the nameless, faceless people who lived, worked, loved, and made life as good as they could with what they had. I am grateful to them, and feel that I am honoring them through using and loving the everyday items they made and used. And I am even more grateful for what I have today, without the hard labor faced by common workers in centuries past. My "stuff" does not distract me from what I love, it connects me to it even more firmly.
Such a nice sentiment, and I agree.
For me, that connection is with stuff that came through my kids. Now that I have to drastically downsize at least 3/4 of my stuff, I laid in bed the other morning looking around my bedroom, picking the "have to have's": I did pretty well. Out of all the stuff in my bedroom (excluding clothes) I chose the little pottery heart jewelry dish my DD made me when she was 8, and the old pictures of my mother, father, MIL, FIL and greataunt--although I may have to remove them from frames and put them in an album. We have hardly any wall space in VT. And MAYBE the little souvenir dish from Motel on the Mountain--from one of my first dates with DH--but I can live without that, too. So that's cool!
ETA: I forgot about the hurricane lamp that was on my great-aunt's mantle. I'll take that over the Motel on the Mountain dish. Plus it's functional if the lights go out.
catherine
12-9-18, 11:31am
I like TooMuchStuff's quote as well.
In citing (inciting, apparently :~)) the hair shirt, I was referring to people that make a fetish of their sacrifice/holiness/rejection of culture, et cetera, which few do here. Though if you could get hair shirts in colors or patterns...oh, wait...
Yes, I get it.
Teacher Terry
12-9-18, 11:48am
When I got rid of stuff I kept things that had meaning and that I enjoyed looking at. I don’t like the way a minimalist home looks either because it feels cold. But too cluttered also makes me uncomfortable. I don’t know any minimalists.
My mother's side of the family was in tune with Iris Apfel ("More is more; less is a bore.") My father's side was way more restrained--until you got to their libraries. I have boxes of books ready to go (where?), but my stash has got lighter since Kindle came along.
Teacher Terry
12-9-18, 11:59am
Our thrift store came with a truck and picked up 50 boxes of books.
I'm definitely not a minimalist. I have a box with 20 years worth of every computer cable I've ever owned to prove it. And just this week two of them are seeing use for the first time in probably a decade.
I donated mine awhile back, finally. As I donate anything I can't/don't use. I hope I didn't donate anything essential...
My mother's side of the family was in tune with Iris Apfel ("More is more; less is a bore.") My father's side was way more restrained--until you got to their libraries. I have boxes of books ready to go (where?), but my stash has got lighter since Kindle came along.
These are illustrated books on arts and crafts, so I'll be hanging on to them. (Oh no! Another hoard!) I thought they'd be easy to box up for the fictional move in my future.
I don't think we will be successful getting rid of our books in this lifetime. I do give them as presents to my son and dad, and I find things for them at estate sales. This year for Christmas I gave my son my favorite novel, and my dad gave him his book of Hemingway short stories recently. I found my AA Milne which I suspect was my dad's, when he was small.
I could more easily see us opening a used bookstore, actually.
Ultralight
12-10-18, 9:28am
I observe your conversations with female forum members and am not surprised that you seem to shed girlfriends as easily as you rid yourself of silverware.
I will argue with anyone. I am equal opportunity.
I will also agree to disagree with anyone who wants to.
Feel free to do a trial-run on either with me, WS. :)
Ultralight
12-10-18, 9:29am
UL, so many threads on minimalism. Do you just dream of new ways to ask the same question? Are you looking for further proof that no one else wants only 100 things so you win?
Has anyone else posted threads about minimalism?
I don't think of minimalism as a competition. Do you?
Ultralight
12-10-18, 9:31am
A couple quotes about minimalism:
Minimalism isn't just about having less stuff, it is also about having a clear mind and a balanced life. Vanessa Webb
Minimalism isn't about removing things that you love, it is about removing things that distract you from things that you love. Joshua Becker
I agree with both of these and I practice minimalism along these lines.
UL doesn't seem balanced by himself (hence needing to seek a life partner), and I am not sure about a clear mind.
That is nice of you to say. Thanks! :)
Ultralight
12-10-18, 9:33am
...I don't agree that minimalism is necessarily a martyred life to the minimalist cause, or minimalism for the sake of minimalism (which UL may be guilty of).
What makes you think of may be guilty of that?
Ultralight
12-10-18, 9:37am
Those are great quotes, tms. I like stuff. Mostly OLD stuff. I am not a minimalist, and I'm not going to apologize for it.
Who is asking you to apologize? Could it be that you are committing civil disobedience against a law that does not exist?
[QUOTE=early morning;316676]I know several self-proclaimed minimalists and to me, personally, their homes are bleak and ugly, and I think it's pretty stupid that when I'm invited in for coffee, I get a Styrofoam cup because they only own two mugs.
I don't know a single minimalist who does this.
A stack of single-use Styrofoam has the same spacial footprint as a 25 cent yard sale mug....and the mug is much less environmentally harmful.
Every minimalist I know would agree with you on this point.
My "stuff" does not distract me from what I love, it connects me to it even more firmly.
Then I strongly suggest you keep your stuff.
Ultralight
12-10-18, 9:42am
In citing (inciting, apparently :~)) the hair shirt, I was referring to people that make a fetish of their sacrifice/holiness/rejection of culture, et cetera...
How is calling/comparing someone to a hairshirt wearer or a fetishist not being judgmental? Could you be spouting off your own form of elitism? Seriously asking...
What you call a fetish or hairshirting might be someone's fun hobby or path to spiritual enlightenment/transcendence, isn't that very possible? Why dump on it?
I indirectly know an ultra-endurance athlete. She meticulously tracks her strides, her calories, her fluid intake, etc.
Could this be some lifestyle fetish? Perhaps. Or it could be the hobby she loves, the hobby that thrills her. Right?
Some people enjoy curating their stamp collection. Some people like rearranging those little ceramic figurines. I’m not sure if a minimalist is curating all their stuff or all the stuff they don’t have. I’m not sure if they do it for esthetic reasons, high principle or necessity. But if they don’t judge my garage, I won’t judge their artfully empty spaces.
It’s one of those life is too short things.
catherine
12-10-18, 3:24pm
What makes you think of may be guilty of that?
Well, let me throw it back atcha.
Why are you a minimalist?
Ultralight
12-10-18, 5:59pm
Well, let me throw it back atcha.
Why are you a minimalist?
Normally I would say: "You made the assessment; the burden of proof is on you."
But I will humor you.
I am a minimalist for these reasons, in my own words:
-I find it aesthetically pleasing
-I like to focus my mind (on projects of various sorts)
-I want to save money, and minimalism is an easy way for me to do that
-It is a fun way to challenge myself
-It makes moving easy
-I don't feel like I need much (so why bother having much?)
-It makes cleaning my living space quick and easy
-Minimalism gives me a sense of freedom and a nice little uptick in my overall happiness too
-My style of minimalism shrinks my ecological footprint
There are more reasons, but you get the picture.
Normally I would say: "You made the assessment; the burden of proof is on you."
But I will humor you.
I am a minimalist for these reasons, in my own words:
-I find it aesthetically pleasing
-I like to focus my mind (on projects of various sorts)
-I want to save money, and minimalism is an easy way for me to do that
-It is a fun way to challenge myself
-It makes moving easy
-I don't feel like I need much (so why bother having much?)
-It makes cleaning my living space quick and easy
-Minimalism gives me a sense of freedom and a nice little uptick in my overall happiness too
-My style of minimalism shrinks my ecological footprint
There are more reasons, but you get the picture.
Why do you persist in asking the same or similar question over and over? Why not apply your minimalist thinking to your posting? Sounds somewhat snarky but a genuine question.
Ultralight
12-10-18, 6:26pm
Why do you persist in asking the same or similar question over and over? Why not apply your minimalist thinking to your posting? Sounds somewhat snarky but a genuine question.
Give me an example, if you can, of how I have asked the same or similar questions over and over.
Give me an example, if you can, of how I have asked the same or similar questions over and over.
I did a quick search for posts by Ultralight that included the word minimalism. That search resulted in 4 pages (100 items). fwiw- I also did a search on minimalist and that returned 5 pages. Because I am lazy, I just looked at the first page of results. 19 of the 25 listed were directly about minimalism.
Some titles:
Making minimalism a deal breaker?
Coworker approached me about minimalism!
Are you or are you not a minimalist?
The 6 Types of Minimalists...
Article: They don’t need much and like it that way
Tough question about going "extreme" with minimalism/simple living
1,000 things?
Maybe to you these are all different topics, but to many of us, it sounds like much the same.
Chicken lady
12-10-18, 7:12pm
I wonder if maybe you are starting so many minimalism themed threads from different angles because you are looking for something you are not finding in the community here. Sort of like my struggles with my schedule and house. I find that I get more help and support here if I narrow my focus to a few specific goals and plans.
meanwhile, I found a hoarding support group that meets my needs for the pace and focus at which I am comfortable addressing those issues.
btw, i’ve been reading a lot of minimalist themed blogs and essays around the winter holidays in an attempt to hone my focus. I really enjoy them. And while in your eyes I may have a “diet soda with my candy bar” approach - it’s still not a full syrup big gulp.
I am nowhere close to being a minimalist.
I do try to keep things simple, which often requires more relationships, gear, skills, or activities than could be called minimal :-)
One of my particular weaknesses is good tools - while I can get by with a very very minimal set of tools (a good core and an antler and I'd be on the road to success), I prefer to have more specialized tools that are more efficient or aesthetic for whatever task I am working on. This sometimes expresses itself as "too many tools that look identical to the casual observer". Often though this happens as I am "skilling up" in a particular field, and once I have gotten reasonably good at it, I can significantly reduce the number of needed tools, as I am then in a position to substitute skill and knowledge for Just The Right Tool.
ToomuchStuff
12-11-18, 1:48pm
I did a quick search for posts by Ultralight that included the word minimalism. That search resulted in 4 pages (100 items). fwiw- I also did a search on minimalist and that returned 5 pages. Because I am lazy, I just looked at the first page of results. 19 of the 25 listed were directly about minimalism.
Some titles:
Making minimalism a deal breaker?
Coworker approached me about minimalism!
Are you or are you not a minimalist?
The 6 Types of Minimalists...
Article: They don’t need much and like it that way
Tough question about going "extreme" with minimalism/simple living
1,000 things?
Maybe to you these are all different topics, but to many of us, it sounds like much the same.
Be a bit more specific, did you search by just threads started by him?
Of course he could probably find a board that is all about minimalism, but that board may only have one long continuous post, to minimalize the number of sections.:laff:
Be a bit more specific, did you search by just threads started by him?
Nope, I did exactly what I said I did.
2620
The title of the thread has a Joe McCarthy ring to it.
iris lilies
12-11-18, 3:20pm
Why do you persist in asking the same or similar question over and over? Why not apply your minimalist thinking to your posting? Sounds somewhat snarky but a genuine question.
This is a pretty good question. Looking forward to the answer.
Ultralight
12-11-18, 5:55pm
Why not apply your minimalist thinking to your posting? Done!
Why not apply your minimalist thinking to your posting?
Done!
Well, you certainly did apply it to your answer at least!
Why the concern over how many times a poster returns to a given topic?
There's a free market in ideas (off-campus, at least, and maybe excluding Oscar night). Nobody's obliged to purchase an oversupply. If you're not interested, just don't engage. If someone maximizes minimalism or returns yet again to the threat facing medical tourism in Mexico, you don't need to engage. You don't even need to read it
catherine
12-12-18, 9:30am
Why the concern over how many times a poster returns to a given topic?
There's a free market in ideas (off-campus, at least, and maybe excluding Oscar night). Nobody's obliged to purchase an oversupply. If you're not interested, just don't engage. If someone maximizes minimalism or returns yet again to the threat facing medical tourism in Mexico, you don't need to engage. You don't even need to read it
I totally agree. I enjoy UL's posts. Frankly, I wouldn't want ANYONE here to start mimimalizing their posts.
Why the concern over how many times a poster returns to a given topic?
There's a free market in ideas (off-campus, at least, and maybe excluding Oscar night). Nobody's obliged to purchase an oversupply. If you're not interested, just don't engage. If someone maximizes minimalism or returns yet again to the threat facing medical tourism in Mexico, you don't need to engage. You don't even need to read it
No one is limiting anyone. The thread title from UL's OP asks the question: "Are you or are you not a minimalist?". I was seeking the answer from UL in regards to his interpretation of minimalism in his posts. Why is this suddenly unacceptable?
No one is limiting anyone. The thread title from UL's OP asks the question: "Are you or are you not a minimalist?". I was seeking the answer from UL in regards to his interpretation of minimalism in his posts. Why is this suddenly unacceptable?
I won’t speak for UL, but I think there is a difference between the practice and the theory behind the practice. Asking him why he doesn’t limit his posts the same way he limits his kitchen utensils confuses that difference. It could easily be construed as an invitation to shut up.
iris lilies
12-12-18, 1:37pm
We do not want to silence UL! Rah rah UL! Dont stop posting!
catherine
12-15-18, 9:58am
It looks like UL has stopped posting, and removed his avatar, too. :(
iris lilies
12-15-18, 10:34am
It looks like UL has stopped posting, and removed his avatar, too. :(
i know, so sorry UL. I hope that, sfter some time away, you return.
rosarugosa
12-15-18, 11:48am
Hopefully he is just taking a break. UL seems like he can both dish it out and take it, and has never appeared to be too thin-skinned.
Teacher Terry
12-15-18, 12:08pm
He may just need a break. I agree that I don’t think he is thin skinned.
I hope he comes back. Part of the reason I keep coming here is to see what he’ll say next. His history and outlook are so different from mine that I often come away with food for thought.
happystuff
12-16-18, 8:30am
I always enjoyed his topics - regardless of how similar they may have been to each other. I hope he returns.
shadowmoss
12-17-18, 1:22pm
A lot of interesting posters here have been run off over the years because they didn't fit some other poster's idea of what the posts here are supposed to look like. It was more fun for me in the free wheeling early days. Oh, well. It seems that some things don't change.
It's easy enough to block annoying posters; I'm not sure why some feel it's necessary to complain to moderators about them.
Teacher Terry
12-17-18, 1:28pm
SM, UL ran off a few long time posters by being rude and argumentative a lot. If he can dish it out but not take it then that’s his problem.
iris lilies
12-17-18, 5:55pm
SM, UL ran off a few long time posters by being rude and argumentative a lot. If he can dish it out but not take it then that’s his problem.
I don’t think that’s the case though. It is as you say, he has taken a break before and he has thick skin. I like poking it. :~)I also don’t think he ran anyone off.
Teacher Terry
12-17-18, 6:00pm
Lesibet left because of him. Some times I enjoy his posts and sometimes I want to strangle him. It really depends on his mood. He is nicer when he is in a relationship.
iris lilies
12-17-18, 6:22pm
Lesibet left because of him. Some times I enjoy his posts and sometimes I want to strangle him. It really depends on his mood. He is nicer when he is in a relationship.
She exiled herself out of embarrassment for her overbearing post in which she hectored and bludgeoned him about getting rid of
Harlan. Yeah, not happening. But he didnt complain or whine about it, he encouaged her to stay.
rosarugosa
12-17-18, 8:27pm
Lessisbest was truly awful and offensive to UL, and other forum members called her on it. I remember that she was way out of line.
Teacher Terry
12-17-18, 11:50pm
My memory is obviously faulty:)). I really hate when anyone leaves because the forum is so small.
rosarugosa
12-18-18, 6:44am
I hate it when someone leaves too. Lessisbest had a lot of good info and experience to share and I'm generally willing to take the bad with the good from people, just like in real life. However, that doesn't mean it's OK for someone to make nasty, demeaning remarks without being called on it.
I am generally pretty tolerant. After all, I'm the one who misses Packy.
DH and I have this silly thing we say to each other, "I love you even though" where the "though" is unspecified. Because that's what love is really all about actually. :)
catherine
12-18-18, 9:19am
I hate it when someone leaves too. Lessisbest had a lot of good info and experience to share and I'm generally willing to take the bad with the good from people, just like in real life. However, that doesn't mean it's OK for someone to make nasty, demeaning remarks without being called on it.
I am generally pretty tolerant. After all, I'm the one who misses Packy.
DH and I have this silly thing we say to each other, "I love you even though" where the "though" is unspecified. Because that's what love is really all about actually. :)
Well said, rosa.
Float On
12-18-18, 11:06am
"I love you even though"
I really like that!!!
JaneV2.0
12-18-18, 11:15am
...
I am generally pretty tolerant. After all, I'm the one who misses Packy.
DH and I have this silly thing we say to each other, "I love you even though" where the "though" is unspecified. Because that's what love is really all about actually. :)
I miss Packy too. He had the redeeming quality of being occasionally funny, unlike some others.
I went back and read our terms of service. Here are some of the things I find, that we agree to honor when we use the forum:
”Each poster is expected to treat every other poster with respect at all times. We all have to agree to disagree at times, this is true of any human relationship, but we can disagree without being disagreeable. Name calling and other ill-willed behavior will earn you a warning from the Moderator of the Forum. If you receive such a note or see a warning post, please work with the Moderator to understand the issue involved and don't do it again. See the Moderators section for more information.
These Forums are provided as a community service. Some of the Forums are moderated by volunteers as their time allows (Thanks Volunteers!) others are (for the most part) unmoderated. Therefore, all users are expected to adhere to the following etiquette guidelines:
* Please be courteous to others and remember that the purpose of this forum is to support each other. We encourage positive, friendly debates that provide informative content to all readers. Flaming is not allowed and will result in removal of your posts and termination of your account.
* Name calling and other ill-willed or inappropriate behavior will earn you a warning from the Moderator of the Forum. If you receive such a note or see a warning post, please work with the Moderator to understand the issue involved and don't do it again. See the Moderators section for more information. “
I think these are some of the reasons that people report posts as offensive. There is a desire to honor the agreed upon parameters of our community, to maintain a community of mutual respect, support, and friendliness.
ToomuchStuff
12-18-18, 3:49pm
I wish there was a way for people to leave, but their membership still remains searchable. Tyzen or something like that I seem to remember was one UL drove to stop posting and I believe there was another. When he first joined, his posts reminded me of a child I used to know, who just kept asking why (to the point of annoyance).
But this:
I will argue with anyone. I am equal opportunity.
in my past experiences, have been from more aggressive people, that so many want to limit exposure to. I view discussions as different from arguing.
I do miss Lessisbest, though. I seem to remember a post that I wanted to ask her about.
Edit: I myself, have been guilty of driving a poster away (Bunny's). She was trying to prove a point with hyperbolics and I called her on it.
happystuff
12-19-18, 8:20am
My experience in many forums has been that many people seem to want to "have the last word", so to speak. They forget that they can always get up and walk away from the internet, that they can ignore <enter a user name>. Maybe it is the degree of anonymity? A sense of "ownership" of the particular site because of longevity or number of postings (indication of participation, etc)? I don't know...
catherine
12-19-18, 9:07am
I remember when redfox left. She was an example of someone who could be annoying with her arguments (she often called forum members racist) but I still enjoyed many of her postings.
herbgeek
12-19-18, 10:28am
However, that doesn't mean it's OK for someone to make nasty, demeaning remarks without being called on it.
heh, one time UL was being particularly nasty to Zoe, and I asked him he was this combative with women in his real life, he asked for the moderators to censure me for using that word. So it appeared that it was ok for him to be nasty, but not ok for me to call him on that.
Teacher Terry
12-19-18, 11:53am
In general I liked red fox also. I think she asked for financial advice and then got mad if I am remembering this correctly.
Ultralight
6-25-19, 5:47pm
I lost a kitchen knife the other day.
Lost it.
I never lose stuff.
But then I took visual inventory of my apartment, my stuff, and by hell... I am slowly approaching the point where I dare call myself a minimalist of any kind.
Chicken lady
6-25-19, 6:54pm
I am confused. How could you possibly lose a kitchen knife? Where could it go? There is nothing for it to be behind or under. It is too large and sharp and metal for Harlan to eat.
i lose stuff all the time, but that is because there is too much stuff.
rosarugosa
6-25-19, 7:18pm
I believe we have lost knives via disposal in pizza boxes.
Ultralight
6-25-19, 10:20pm
I am confused. How could you possibly lose a kitchen knife? Where could it go? There is nothing for it to be behind or under. It is too large and sharp and metal for Harlan to eat.
i lose stuff all the time, but that is because there is too much stuff.
It ended up in my car in a plastic bag, a bag I used to back some fruit to slice up. Left it in the bag.
This happened twice!
Ultralight
6-25-19, 10:20pm
I believe we have lost knives via disposal in pizza boxes.
:cool:
Honorable way to lose a kitchen knife!
I had a nice aha moment yesterday--I subscribe on Facebook to Joshua Becker's becoming minimalist FB feed, and I often read his articles. So I was attracted to one about how to get rid of things.
And then I realized--I DID get rid of things!! A ton of things--and LITERALLY OVER A TON of things, according to the dumpster guy who weighed it and said it amounted to 1.4 tons of crap. And that doesn't include 4 truckfuls to Goodwill and 3 trips from the Vietnam Vets to pick up over 10 boxes and bags each trip, and a garage sale where we got rid of almost all of our electronic junk, etc. etc.
While of course I can continue to minimize my stuff--and I am--for ONCE, I didn't get that pit in my stomach at the mere thought of tackling all the unneeded and unwanted crap in my life! It was a great feeling.
Teacher Terry
7-2-19, 1:56pm
Catherine, you really ripped the bandaid off in the decluttering department :))
Catherine, you really ripped the bandaid off in the decluttering department :))
That I did!
And my nature is to be wader, not a plunger. You never know what you can do until the circumstances demand it.
I am late on this as there are posters that I choose to pass on. But I would like to say that I really miss Lessisbest. They were so giving with their knowledge and I feel many of us benefited so much from their generosity. If they are reading I would like to thank them.
I am confused. How could you possibly lose a kitchen knife? Where could it go? There is nothing for it to be behind or under. It is too large and sharp and metal for Harlan to eat.
i lose stuff all the time, but that is because there is too much stuff.
Losing a knife reminds me of one of the restaurants I worked at as a busboy when in high school/college. This restaurant had a metal detector on the trashcan by the dishwasher. Apparently when bussers were dumping food from plates into the trash flatware was getting thrown away so this was an attempt to prevent that. But then it became a game to try and toss flatware in the trash and avoid setting off the alarm...
But back to the side-topic at hand, I rarely lose stuff. I'm very much a "place for every thing and every thing in its place" kind of guy. Keys, wallet, glasses, etc, all have set locations and I never deviate from them. SO, on the other hand, is forever losing stuff. He's more of a "this flat surface next to me is a great spot to set this down" kind of guy. Fifteen years of living with him has taught me to let him own that and not get involved in looking for things he's misplaced unless there's a specific urgency to the search.
Well, with upwards of 66% of my stuff packed away in moving boxes, I would say I don't have a problem losing knives now. haha
SO, on the other hand, is forever losing stuff. He's more of a "this flat surface next to me is a great spot to set this down" kind of guy. Fifteen years of living with him has taught me to let him own that and not get involved in looking for things he's misplaced unless there's a specific urgency to the search.
Wisdom. :)
iris lilies
7-2-19, 10:56pm
That I did!
And my nature is to be wader, not a plunger. You never know what you can do until the circumstances demand it.
I think I am jealous.
I know with certainty I am jealous that your entire house is cleaned out as well as your garage.
In my house DH has every surface of the garage and our spare house covered with stuff, but in my mind I don’t go there anymore. Not my problem. I can’t control that. But with my own stuff —while I still have too much, crap tons of it, I do have a plan for disposing of it in the next two years. It’s a good plan and I will work it.
That I did!
And my nature is to be wader, not a plunger. You never know what you can do until the circumstances demand it.
Sheer bad assery!
It’s a good plan and I will work it.
Nice!
Answer to the OP, no, I’m a hoarder. I have reasons for this, old ones. Trying to change it.
I've been looking at minimalist videos on YouTube and frankly many of them put me off, the way many books about stuff and cleaning and other things do. I’m glad when people manage to get clarity, and make positive changes for themselves, but not interested if the journey comes with self-satisfied attitudes.
I have problems with many blogs that way too.
It punches the same button for me that the people who tell me to “Give it to God,” about my PTSD. I’m delighted that whatever works for them, but it does not for me. And it’s very hard to not react when people tell me I’m just not trying hard enough or praying enough or...! One lady told me I didn’t know how to pray. More than one person has told me that I just don’t want to get better.
There are some minimalists I can watch and enjoy. I get some ideas from some of those. There are places like this one, where there’s a variety of people and the accompanying array of solutions and opinions and I like that too.
i don’t believe one size fits all. And, even if it does? It probably wouldn’t fit me! One of the funniest things like that was that I broke/crashed a fit kit program years ago when we bought my bike! My arms were too long, my legs too short and my shoulders too wide. I have my dad’s torso, he looked like a really big man, until he stood up, really stubby short legs.
I’ve enjoyed reading this thread and yes, I read all of it.
Answer to the OP, no, I’m a hoarder. I have reasons for this, old ones. Trying to change it.
I've been looking at minimalist videos on YouTube and frankly many of them put me off, the way many books about stuff and cleaning and other things do. I’m glad when people manage to get clarity, and make positive changes for themselves, but not interested if the journey comes with self-satisfied attitudes.
I have problems with many blogs that way too.
It punches the same button for me that the people who tell me to “Give it to God,” about my PTSD. I’m delighted that whatever works for them, but it does not for me. And it’s very hard to not react when people tell me I’m just not trying hard enough or praying enough or...! One lady told me I didn’t know how to pray. More than one person has told me that I just don’t want to get better.
There are some minimalists I can watch and enjoy. I get some ideas from some of those. There are places like this one, where there’s a variety of people and the accompanying array of solutions and opinions and I like that too.
i don’t believe one size fits all. And, even if it does? It probably wouldn’t fit me! One of the funniest things like that was that I broke/crashed a fit kit program years ago when we bought my bike! My arms were too long, my legs too short and my shoulders too wide. I have my dad’s torso, he looked like a really big man, until he stood up, really stubby short legs.
I’ve enjoyed reading this thread and yes, I read all of it.
What kind of hoarding are you doing?
My parents are both hoarders -- Stage 5.
What kind of hoarding are you doing?
My parents are both hoarders -- Stage 5.
I had no idea there were stages. I grew up emotionally abused by our housekeeper, my mom had died. If I liked something, it was given away, stolen, or broken. The more I liked it, the more likely that was to happen. I learned to hide the things I valued in a mess. I was conditioned like a damned Pavlovian dog.
I have for decades had panic attacks when my space is too clean. These days, it’s usually just waking up in the middle of the night, sometimes with a scream. It used to encompass sweaty palms, “ice cubes” running down my back, shaking, etc.
I have no problem getting rid of things, never have. It’s neat and tidy that sets me off. The easiest way to keep it untidy is to have too much stuff....
Ultralight
7-5-19, 12:02pm
I had no idea there were stages. I grew up emotionally abused by our housekeeper, my mom had died. If I liked something, it was given away, stolen, or broken. The more I liked it, the more likely that was to happen. I learned to hide the things I valued in a mess. I was conditioned like a damned Pavlovian dog.
I have for decades had panic attacks when my space is too clean. These days, it’s usually just waking up in the middle of the night, sometimes with a scream. It used to encompass sweaty palms, “ice cubes” running down my back, shaking, etc.
I have no problem getting rid of things, never have. It’s neat and tidy that sets me off. The easiest way to keep it untidy is to have too much stuff....
Stage 5 is the worst. There is no 6.
Unfortunately there is no effective treatment for Compulsive Hoarding Disorder. It is just something you and those close to you have to live with.
So harm reduction strategies might be helpful for you.
As for my parents, they are beyond help. When they pass away my sis and I will deal with it.
Ultralight
7-5-19, 12:08pm
I had no idea there were stages. I grew up emotionally abused by our housekeeper, my mom had died. If I liked something, it was given away, stolen, or broken. The more I liked it, the more likely that was to happen. I learned to hide the things I valued in a mess. I was conditioned like a damned Pavlovian dog.
I will say that I don't understand this because I have just not really valued things much. I like free time. The things I like are all pretty cheap and easily replaced. As I have gotten older this has become even more true.
Teacher Terry
7-5-19, 12:49pm
I understand it because the childhood abuse left scars and taught you how to protect things that are important. Your logical mind knows this is silly but your body has a actual physical reaction when you try to change. It’s very complex.
The research shows that psychological trauma is associated with CHD.
What the research has also shown is that being deprived of material goods (stuff -- toys, cars, big house, etc.) during childhood is not associated with CHD.
So kids who have tons of stuff can grow up to have CHD and so can kids that were poor and had very little.
But I agree, it is interesting that we can so clearly know that our behavior is bad. But we still do it! haha
Not to go too far down my particular rabbit hole, but, the abuse wasn't just about the stuff. My family "were disgusted by me," my friends "only played with me so they could laugh about me with their REAL friends," etc. That's what I had all those "Wonder Bread" years. One therapist I had compared it to being raised in a POW camp. There was no safe place, food, item, or person in my life for a long time.
Teacher Terry
7-5-19, 2:43pm
New gig, that’s horrible and I am so glad you survived it. Some don’t. You did what you needed to keep sane. That says you are a very strong person. You should be proud of that.
You did what you needed to keep sane. That says you are a very strong person. You should be proud of that.
What she did actually did not keep her sane, but maybe it kept her from harming herself in other ways. Remember, CHD is a mental illness, a form of insanity.
Teacher Terry
7-5-19, 3:27pm
Having a MI doesn’t make someone insane. That’s ridiculous.
Dictionary definition of insanity: "the state of being seriously mentally ill"
Teacher Terry
7-5-19, 3:54pm
Glad you dropped out of the MSW program. Thinking or referring to people with a serious MI as insane makes me sick.
Glad you dropped out of the MSW program. Thinking or referring to people with a serious MI as insane makes me sick.
I am sorry you got an MSW -- more of the blind leading the blind.
(See how it is hurtful to be insulted? Think twice before you do it.)
Is insane a politically incorrect term?
Thanks Terry!
As to the other? I say, frequently, I'm mentally ill, but I'm not insane. To me insanity is being out of control. I'm insane when I'm having a flashback, which is rare these days, thank Gohd. Most of the time, these days, I can keep myself from falling apart or going out of control in an obvious fashion. Everyone loses control, just everyone doesn't have the triggers, etc. that I do. So losing control for me, as long as it's temporary and I don't hurt myself or anyone else, I don't consider insanity. It's slicing the pie very thinly, but I think it's an important distinction. I have been out of control, was most of my youth. It took a lot of work to learn how to live with what I've got. These days, it hits me more as a surprise than it did when I thought the world was dangerous.
Of course, I do things to keep my stress down too: don't listen to news (I read it, no triggers that way), I work and live at home, and we live in the country, although we haven't always. The secret, if there is one, is to manage it, the same way a diabetic has to manage their insulin or a cancer survivor their chemo or aftereffects of it. The only real regret I have about healing as much as I have is that I'm no longer as hyperalert. It kept me from being raped or worse at least once and out of trouble probably more often than that.
My flavor of PTSD is rather like being an emotional jack in the box. You know it will happen, just not exactly when.
Teacher Terry
7-5-19, 4:15pm
New, I spent my career in human services and I can assure you that most people working in the field do not feel this way. Unfortunately, MI has been a big stigma for many years partly due to ignorance and partly due to a superior attitude by some people. I have 3 advanced degrees in the field and also teach a university class on disabilities. UL: you can insult me all you want as I have confidence in my professional skills built over a long career. I appreciate your honesty in sharing your struggles New. When you look up the legal and clinical definition of insanity it is when someone’s MI is so severe that they cannot distinguish fantasy from reality and/or due to psychosis can’t conduct their own affairs.
As to the other? I say, frequently, I'm mentally ill, but I'm not insane. To me insanity is being out of control.
There is a reason it is called Compulsive Hoarding Disorder. If people could control it, they'd call it voluntary.
When you look up the legal and clinical definition of insanity it is when someone’s MI is so severe that they cannot distinguish fantasy from reality and/or due to psychosis can’t conduct their own affairs.
Go into the home of a Stage 5 hoarder and tell me they can conduct their own affairs.
I have 3 advanced degrees in the field and also teach a university class on disabilities. UL: you can insult me all you want as I have confidence in my professional skills built over a long career.
Again, I saw lots of people in the MSW program who had major problems of their own they could not solve.
iris lilies
7-5-19, 4:52pm
I am sorry you got an MSW -- more of the blind leading the blind.
(See how it is hurtful to be insulted? Think twice before you do it.)
Is insane a politically incorrect term?
Teacher Terry probably just means “insane” is not a medical term now used among professional mental health workers. It is likely outdated.
That you found it in a general dictionary doesnt have much meaning. If you want to use it as a layman’s term, go ahead. It doesn't make me “sick” as such, it just sounds a little strong and probably old fashioned. What about “crazy” , should we use that? I think not altho I do use it. :) What about that word the Brits use which I think is funny —“ mental” —as in “are you MENTAL!!!???”
Clinically, I am what I am. But I keep working on it and I think that has to count!
Acc. to the stages (I looked them up, I'm somewhere between 1 and 3, none of them fit me. I'm sure there's a way of drawing a line and it's not really important for me, but I was curious!
To me, what's important is that I keep working towards positive mental health and being a better person. If what I have makes me insane, well it does. If it's uncurable, I'll learn to cope as best I can. I think struggling against my worst, inflicting it on others the least, and trying to be a positive in my culture is my job. The image I use is a kelp bed -- my particular piece of the kelp bed in the continuum of humanity, past, present, and future. My job is to make it the best I can. That's all I can do. It's all any of us can do. I have the assets I was born with and into. I have the decificits I was born with and into. I have the same with the life I've lived. Job is still the same, make that piece of humanity the best I can! :-D
iris lilies
7-5-19, 5:43pm
Go into the home of a Stage 5 hoarder and tell me they can conduct their own affairs.
Well, they CAN conduct many of their own affairs. And possibly they don’t conduct those affairs especially well because the hoarding affects so much of their life, but chances are they are as just as effective at their affairs as many people are who don’t hoard.
I don’t watch that awful tv show Hoarders very often, but I have seen it enough to know that a fair number of those people have jobs outside of their home, they earn income, they must make a house payment to be able to keep the house, and etc. so they are can certainly conducting some affairs reasonably well.
NewGig, you are doing what you need to be doing for your life. Simply ignore the judgemental, online or otherwise, posts/viewpoints that have no relevance or value to your life or your goals.
NewGig, you are doing what you need to be doing for your life. Simply ignore the judgemental, online or otherwise, posts/viewpoints that have no relevance or value to your life or your goals.
Or NG could look at opposing ideas as food for thought or reasons to change.
Teacher Terry
7-5-19, 10:13pm
Or UL could stop talking about things that he has no expertise about that could be hurtful. Food for thought.
Ultralight
7-5-19, 10:21pm
Or UL could stop talking about things that he has no expertise about that could be hurtful. Food for thought.
I could say the same to you with as much or more validity in my critique. How bout them apples?
Teacher Terry
7-5-19, 10:29pm
As soon as you obtain 2 masters and 1 PhD in human services I will take your opinion into consideration. Let me know when that happens.
Ultralight
7-5-19, 10:31pm
As soon as you obtain 2 masters and 1 PhD in human services I will take your opinion into consideration. Let me know when that happens.
When you show that crap works, you let me know.
Teacher Terry
7-5-19, 10:53pm
I totally forgot that you are job hunting and credentials don’t matter. So I suggest you apply for jobs such as a heart surgeon, Neurologist, engineer, nurse, physical therapist which will increase your income so you can pay off your student loans. No need for pesky degrees.
When you show that crap works, you let me know.
UL, your seething contempt of those with advanced education and skill sets is shining bright. Chill dude.
Ultralight
7-6-19, 10:24am
UL, your seething contempt of those with advanced education and skill sets is shining bright. Chill dude.
I am just an uneducated schlub. Forgive me.
iris lilies
7-6-19, 12:22pm
UL, your seething contempt of those with advanced education and skill sets is shining bright. Chill dude.
UL Has multiple advanced degrees himself you know. I don’t think it’s a self loathing thing though.
I share some of his skepticism about —certain disciplines.
I could write a couple paragraphs about my new friend who I’m keeping at arms length with lots of boundaries because we share interests but she’s unstable. But I wont. Suffice to say she also has a doctorate in social sciences and will mention that pretty often. I haven’t observed that her advanced degree has given her important insight into our group dynamics or has made her a master of interpersonal relations.
Ultralight
7-6-19, 12:24pm
UL Has multiple advanced degrees himself you know. I don’t think it’s a self loathing thing though.
I share some of his skepticism about —certain disciplines.
I could write a couple paragraphs about my new friend who I’m keeping at arms length with lots of boundaries because we share interests but she’s unstable. But I wont. Suffice to say she also has a doctorate in social sciences and will mention that pretty often. I haven’t observed that her advanced degree has given her important insight into our group dynamics or has made her a master of interpersonal relations.
You explained that so, so much better than I could have.
Teacher Terry
7-6-19, 12:38pm
There are unstable people in all professions. UL has contempt for human services professionals probably because of his family of origin which is why I never thought the field was a good fit. The profession needs people that can help and not harm.
Ultralight
7-6-19, 12:45pm
UL has contempt for human services professionals probably because of his family of origin which is why I never thought the field was a good fit.
The above statement is untrue.
The profession needs people that can help and not harm.
Amen, sistah!
ApatheticNoMore
7-6-19, 1:15pm
Well, they CAN conduct many of their own affairs. And possibly they don’t conduct those affairs especially well because the hoarding affects so much of their life, but chances are they are as just as effective at their affairs as many people are who don’t hoard.
I don’t watch that awful tv show Hoarders very often, but I have seen it enough to know that a fair number of those people have jobs outside of their home, they earn income, they must make a house payment to be able to keep the house, and etc. so they are can certainly conducting some affairs reasonably well.
+1 and maybe hoarding will be a fatal flaw that makes them unable to take the right action in some circumstances - say emergency personnel aren't able to get in due to junk, maybe they get typhus from rats in their junk store, ok that's pretty extreme forms of hoarding, but then again that may or may not happen, and clearly they aren't entirely incapable of conducting their own affairs as many hoarders do in many areas of life that don't involve hoarding, but may be vulnerable in that area.
I share the skepticism toward mental health help, but if it is helpful to someone or they think it is, they are free to use it, and get whatever they think they can out of it. If it's less than helpful and they want to break free of it (and it can be like breaking an *addiction*), then walk through the open door. Because there is life beyond dependence on mental health care to solve problems especially if you find it's not solving them anyway. You can change what you want, mental health doesn't have all the answers (very few it seems to me), and some things may be just fine as they are (but try to be realistic about consequences and hoarding has some).
Ha I might prefer free time to stuff but presently I work a job where I don't even get paid sick days and I'm afraid to take time off, so wanting what I can't have right now would be literally a waste of time and life if ever there was one! If we ever get mandatory paid sick and vacation time for everyone in this country, employee or gig worker, please let me know. I am in favor of it!!! Mostly I just try to live ethically, it's often pretty austere as I chase after neither stuff, nor have free time beyond weekends and unpaid national holidays like last week, but on some level I've gotten pretty used to austerity too.
ApatheticNoMore
7-6-19, 1:16pm
NewGig, you are doing what you need to be doing for your life. Simply ignore the judgemental, online or otherwise, posts/viewpoints that have no relevance or value to your life or your goals.
+1 You are doing good.
Ha I might prefer free time to stuff but presently I work a job where I don't even get paid sick days and I'm afraid to take time off...
You need to move away and get a different job. Just sayin'.
Teacher Terry
7-9-19, 11:44pm
UL, I have thought that for years but for some reason her and boyfriend won’t move. I even left my elderly mother once my dad died and she encouraged us to do so. I really don’t get it.
Chicken lady
7-10-19, 5:47am
Late to the party, but feeling a need to chime in - newgig, from one hoarder to another - welcome.
Ultralight, of course we can control it. It’s just very very hard. Like controlling your food intake.
i am ok with “crazy” I personally feel like most people have their own particular brand of crazy. My behavior is often insane, but I feel like applying the label to a person denies any moments of lucidity.
struggles with executive function make it difficult to manage one’s life. OTOH, looking at my family, home, job, and lifestyle, I seem to have managed mine better than most. It helps that I was dealt a good hand to play.
you can also add me to the column of those in the helping professions who think a high percentage is manure flung wildly by incompetent labor. Seeing how they make the sausage can quickly turn you vegetarian (says the vegetarian goat and chicken lady)
Ultralight
7-10-19, 8:20am
I am a minimalist.
Do tell!
Ultralight
7-10-19, 8:20am
Late to the party, but feeling a need to chime in - newgig, from one hoarder to another - welcome.
Ultralight, of course we can control it. It’s just very very hard. Like controlling your food intake.
i am ok with “crazy” I personally feel like most people have their own particular brand of crazy. My behavior is often insane, but I feel like applying the label to a person denies any moments of lucidity.
struggles with executive function make it difficult to manage one’s life. OTOH, looking at my family, home, job, and lifestyle, I seem to have managed mine better than most. It helps that I was dealt a good hand to play.
you can also add me to the column of those in the helping professions who think a high percentage is manure flung wildly by incompetent labor. Seeing how they make the sausage can quickly turn you vegetarian (says the vegetarian goat and chicken lady)
I am not so sure I can control my food intake.
Chicken lady
7-10-19, 8:59am
Sometimes you want pancakes and you don’t eat them.
sometimes you have to put yourself where there is no food available.
sometimes you backslide.
that is control - imperfect control, but control. Lack of control would be eating as much as you want, of whatever you want, whenever you want it.
the hoarding is similar.
Exactly! What a great analogy!
I never said I was resigned to or accepting of my hoarding, just that I know why it’s part of my life. I also never said the panic attacks which stopped me for decades were something I approached as: “Oh well, it’s part of my nature, I’ll live with it.”
Some days I do better than others.
Unknown to me several things had to happen first: I had to have the PTSD diagnosed (age 45). I had to do the trauma work and I had to finish the memoir. I am doing it, albeit slowly. Slowly because after many, many tries I’ve found if I charge ahead, I get the panic attacks again.
i don’t know if this attempt will work any better than the 1001 previous attempts, all I can do is try.
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