Cohousing for companionship

[razz]

Zoegirl had posted about the value of cohousing being a benefit for those who chose to live together for companionship. I have been looking in the media to see if this option is seen as viable. CBC has this ["https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/seniors-cohousing-baby-boomers-loneliness-mental-health-1.4952142"] article about three longtime friends who sell their houses and find a shared living space that serves them well. It is interesting to read actual experiences.
I think it would take fairly congenial people to cohabit in this setting. I am not sure that I could do this. I wonder how many others would be able to do so?

[iris lilies]

Zoegirl had posted about the value of cohousing being a benefit for those who chose to live together for companionship. I have been looking in the media to see if this option is seen as viable. CBC has this ["https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/seniors-cohousing-baby-boomers-loneliness-mental-health-1.4952142"] article about three longtime friends who sell their houses and find a shared living space that serves them well. It is interesting to read actual experiences.
I think it would take fairly congenial people to cohabit in this setting. I am not sure that I could do this. I wonder how many others would be able to do so?
Count me out of these earnest, new agey places. I can just imagine the kind of people who would inhabit them and already that they annoy me.:~)

What is wrong with today’s retirement communities? Why is that not “intentional community cohousing? “Does everyone have to share a kitchen for it to count?

[JaneV2.0]

I can see encouraging community, as Iris Lily's example suggests, but I want my own, private dwelling--until I can't sustain that.
I really don't have the personality for a Golden Girls revival.

[mschrisgo2]

In true cohousing, by definition, everyone has their own kitchen, in fact, whole separate living space.
www.cohousing.org (http://www.cohousing.org)

This is a concept that has intrigued me for many years, but the communities are awfully hard to buy into as a single person, because they are usually some above market rate. The idea is that people intend to live in community, i.e. sharing chores, tools, dinners, emotional support, etc.

[Yppej]

You don't need a cohousing development. Some widowed retirees I know get other widowed retirees as roommates.

[iris lilies]

I have such a negative visceral reaction to these discussions of cohousing, it is interesting for me to examine my own reaction. Where is that coming from?

Here are the ideas and words that come to my mind when people talk about “cohousing:” Ernest, faux, deliberate, artificial, intrusive, forced, sheeple, people with more money than brains, people lacking a core life purpose.

A “cohousing community” immediately makes me think of a lot of needy people circling me, wanting to be my best friend, sucking my life energy, yammering at me about “Organic sustainability green living raised beds nogmos“ And quacking on about the state of their tomato vines. They pay twice the price of comparable real estate to buy their friends, and they often ( and this is the biggest sin in my book) build all of this community brand new. What disregard for sustainability/green living! New construction eats up much more of the earth’s resources than most other human activity. It just gives me the skeevies.

I admit, my reaction is anything but rational. I could write an ironic tv sitcom about my imagined cohousing community, but maybe Portlandia already covered this.

[catherine]

I have such a negative visceral reaction to these discussions of cohousing, it is interesting for me to examine my own reaction. Where is that coming from?

Here are the ideas and words that come to my mind when people talk about “cohousing:” Ernest, faux, deliberate, artificial, intrusive, forced, sheeple, people with more money than brains, people lacking in a core life purpose.

A “cohousing community” immediately makes me think of a lot of needy people circling me, wanting to be my best friend, sucking my life energy, yammering at me about “Organic sustainability green living raised beds nogmos“ And quacking on about the state of their tomato vines. They pay twice the price of comparable real estate to buy their friends, and they often ( and this is the biggest sin in my book) build all of this community brand new. What disregard for sustainability/green living! New construction eats up much more of the earth’s resources than most other human activity. It just gives me the skeevies.

I admit, my reaction is anything but rational. I could write an ironic tv sitcom about my imagined cohousing community, but maybe Portlandia already covered this.

Haha... ! Yes, Portlandia does come to mind in your description. (I LOVE that show)

Is this an example of what you're talking about? I found this community while tooling around last year looking for a VT home.

https://www.champlainvalleycohousing.org

I'm too much of an introvert to choose to live in the same house with other people--co-existing with DH and BIL is challenging enough. Yet, I see a need for a) some type of communal experience in your neighborhood based on common values and b) some way to create that environment without making it into a commune. I know that our snowbird friends have called Florida "Spring break for adults" but I'm not really interested in the mah Jong, martinis at 5 lifestyle. But, razz, there has to be something like what you're looking for without having to share the TV remote with an "intentional friend."

[Tybee]

I was intrigued by this concept when I first heard of it and looked into a few, twenty years ago. Thanks, Catherine, for posting that link. (And why do they have to offer a non-violence workshop that is private, when other stuff is public--hmm). The problem I saw for us was that they were always extremely expensive, and would self select or very high incomes, it seemed to me, and that felt kind of like a gated community but way out in the boonies, with beautiful architecture but you would have to drive to get there.

My one experience with condo living was horrible, because of things liked shared lawns and self-appointed fertilizer kings.

I thought Razz you were talking more about a few people getting together to share housing. As I get older, this looks extremely appealing to me, especially if I were widowed or divorced. Then I would immediately call my friend MJ and say, hey, lets buy a little house in Savannah to live in and she would probably be game, and she could get her friend, C, etc.

I could deal with sharing a kitchen. Sharing a garden would be much more difficult. . .

[catherine]

I was intrigued by this concept when I first heard of it and looked into a few, twenty years ago. Thanks, Catherine, for posting that link. (And why do they have to offer a non-violence workshop that is private, when other stuff is public--hmm). The problem I saw for us was that they were always extremely expensive, and would self select or very high incomes, it seemed to me, and that felt kind of like a gated community but way out in the boonies, with beautiful architecture but you would have to drive to get there.

My one experience with condo living was horrible, because of things liked shared lawns and self-appointed fertilizer kings.

I thought Razz you were talking more about a few people getting together to share housing. As I get older, this looks extremely appealing to me, especially if I were widowed or divorced. Then I would immediately call my friend MJ and say, hey, lets buy a little house in Savannah to live in and she would probably be game, and she could get her friend, C, etc.

I could deal with sharing a kitchen. Sharing a garden would be much more difficult. . .

Actually, now that you mention it, Tybee, I have a cousin who was born a week before I was, and we're fairly close. She has lived in CT with her mother, who is now 94, for much of her life. They have a beautiful old farmhouse--my aunt's husband owned a landscape nursery. If I became single I (theoretically) would consider living with my cousin for companionship if it came to that. But I think at this point, I'd be much more likely to just move full time to our little neighborhood in VT. I wouldn't say I share common values 100% (I definitely have experienced the lawn/fertilizer kings) but they are good people and they would look out for me.

[iris lilies]

Haha... ! Yes, Portlandia does come to mind in your description. (I LOVE that show)

Is this an example of what you're talking about? I found this community while tooling around last year looking for a VT home.

https://www.champlainvalleycohousing.org

."
Oh that is horrifying! They are “ Dedicated to knowing each other in a more meaningful way. “ Cripey, get me outta there.

Doing a little more introspection than usual today I am now tapping into what may be feeding some of my dislike of this cohousing concept. My California relatives play into it. I think of my California relatives who purchased expensive real estate in one of those highly planned earth friendly super architecturally clean communities, Sea Ranch. It suited them for a while but then someone was going to build an intentional castle right in front of my aunt’s intentional view of the ocean, so she got mad and left. That aunt and several of her friends bought condos in the same complex in Oregon. That is of course where the Californians go when they want to retire in cheap real estate which is no longer cheap because the Californians have moved there with their big California dollars.

That aunt must be well into her 90s by now, probably nearing 100. I wonder how many of her friends are left in the intentional Oregon condo community

[pinkytoe]

This (https://casaverde.us) is the one near our house. I like that it's in the middle of the city in an older section rather than out in the sprawls. I have mixed feelings about living that way as I love my privacy.

[JaneV2.0]

"Our energy-efficient homes are clustered around a central green, enabling little ones to enjoy safe independence and allowing all neighbors to enjoy spontaneous and meaningful social interaction."

Oh dear. "Little ones" under the hawklike eye of the whole spontaneous and meaningful bunch. Note to observers: there is no such thing as "safe independence."
On the upside, the condos seem cheap enough.

Communes have always held a limited appeal in this country. Old age makes interdependence more acceptable, so I can see housemates, condo communities, and "Village*" organizations as strategies for dealing with decline. "Intentional communities" seem, on the face of it, to take that concept too far--for me, at least.

*https://www.helpfulvillage.com/the_village_movement

[iris lilies]

Haha... ! Yes, Portlandia does come to mind in your description. (I LOVE that show)

Is this an example of what you're talking about? I found this community while tooling around last year looking for a VT home.

https://www.champlainvalleycohousing.org

I'm too much of an introvert to choose to live in the same house with other people--co-existing with DH and BIL is challenging enough. Yet, I see a need for a) some type of communal experience in your neighborhood based on common values and b) some way to create that environment without making it into a commune. I know that our snowbird friends have called Florida "Spring break for adults" but I'm not really interested in the mah Jong, martinis at 5 lifestyle. But, razz, there has to be something like what you're looking for without having to share the TV remote with an "intentional friend."
I very much agree that, for us anyway, your #1 “Some type of communal experience in your neighborhood based on common values “ is the essence of it. To me the central problem of these artificially created intentional communities is that their common value is themselves. They gather together to celebrate – themselves, to get to know – themselves.Pretty boring core value if you aren’t a people person.


In my very tight neighborhood we get together to celebrate – our old buildings. We work to save – our old buildings. Our focus is outward, not inward. Here in Hermann there are groups with similar focus, the history of this place and its old buildings are super important.

Catherine it is so cool that you found your place in Vermont. You all share a love of that place. Place is important. That core value enables strong human relations around it.

[Tammy]

I agree with Iris Lilies. I have all those same visceral reactions. I just want to live in my 100 year old 850 sq ft house and talk with neighbors only when I feel like it. 😄

[nswef]

Iris and Tammy, I fall in with you two. I do wonder if I were single if I would feel differently, but I suspect not.

[nswef]

I don't even want to go on vacation with anyone except my husband....

[SteveinMN]

DW and I are friends with maybe 4-5 couples she's known pretty much since college. So, okay, self-selected upper-middle-class college-educated largely-suburban (we break that mold) white folks. But they (and now I) have been friends for years, helped raise each others kids (and, now, grandkids), have camped and gone on trips together. There is (half-serious) talk about a "compound" somewhere in which we all could live.

We entertain the idea because of the way it's been structured: separate cottages or building "wings" against a common area so each couple could get away as needed, assignment of who does what (with some discussion of what happens when A cannot do assigned task B), location (along some form of mass transit) and some discussion of who would own what and how "shares" could be disposed of in the event of death/needing to move, etc. It's not fully fleshed out by any means; in fact DW and I think it probably will never happen because the expenses of converting an existing location to what we want would require an outlay that not all involved might make and because location plays into current work locations and when some plan to retire (a ten-year span of ages).

With the abiilty to get away and not need to do everything with each other in lockstep, I'd be good with this. But the devil is in the details.

[iris lilies]

DW and I are friends with maybe 4-5 couples she's known pretty much since college. So, okay, self-selected upper-middle-class college-educated largely-suburban (we break that mold) white folks. But they (and now I) have been friends for years, helped raise each others kids (and, now, grandkids), have camped and gone on trips together. There is (half-serious) talk about a "compound" somewhere in which we all could live.

We entertain the idea because of the way it's been structured: separate cottages or building "wings" against a common area so each couple could get away as needed, assignment of who does what (with some discussion of what happens when A cannot do assigned task B), location (along some form of mass transit) and some discussion of who would own what and how "shares" could be disposed of in the event of death/needing to move, etc. It's not fully fleshed out by any means; in fact DW and I think it probably will never happen because the expenses of converting an existing location to what we want would require an outlay that not all involved might make and because location plays into current work locations and when some plan to retire (a ten-year span of ages).

With the abiilty to get away and not need to do everything with each other in lockstep, I'd be good with this. But the devil is in the details.

Steve one of our friend broached that topic about 15 years ago when we were aged 48-55. I was ok with the idea since I already knew these people, but I couldnt visualize what we would *DO* if we were not in our neighborhood trying to reset cobblestone, raising funds for the ParkHouse renovation, managing house tours. Sure we could play mahjong and drink, but those are side activities and we already had card groups and drinking events.

And then life changed, that particular friend and his partner moved to California for income -producing reasons, and most all other friends have moved away. When retirement comes, the pull of grandchildren and other family competes with the old neighborhood.

I have said this several times:we know enough people casually and better in our neighborhood now that, if we worked at it, we could have another set of close friends like the old group but I am not sure I care about doing that. We have friends to go our to dinner with, to invite home for dinner, to see art shows and movies. I am not sure
I’d go camping withh them, though—haha! That makes you close friends pretty fast! I am debating going on a long overseas vacation with one couple, so that might be worse than camping. :~)

[ApatheticNoMore]

stuff like this hardly seems to exist, but I guess because it's so rare it gets press, roommates exist but that doesn't get press, maybe because it's actually a real thing.

[dado potato]

And why do they have to offer a non-violence workshop that is private, when other stuff is public--hmm
. . .

It appears that there's a training workshop on techniques for Non-Violent Communication, as formalized by the late Marshall B. Rosenberg. In a NVC workshop, participants would be encouraged to communicate verbally in ways that may feel new and different to them. Unfortunately the linked web page is vague about what is meant by "private". I have a hunch that the NVC trainer wants to give assurance to potential participants that anything they share will handled confidentially.


Cohousing, as originally practiced in Denmark, required decision-making on the basis of consensus. Consensus is difficult if not impossible when people make moralistic judgments of each other, compare achievements of others (good-bad/winner-loser), or deny responsibility. Non-Violent Communication tends to foster consensus-building.


For what it's worth, I believe that "Golden Girls" sharing the amenities and the costs on a house together might like to have a copy of Rosenberg's Nonviolent Communication: A Language of Life to refer to.

[Tybee]

Yes, I am aware of what NVC is and was actually making a joke about the Champlain folk and how hard it would be to live in community, at least for me!
The book exchange is also private, so I don't think it's actually very significant.

[SteveinMN]

Steve one of our friend broached that topic about 15 years ago when we were aged 48-55. I was ok with the idea since I already knew these people, but I couldnt visualize what we would *DO* if we were not in our neighborhood trying to reset cobblestone, raising funds for the ParkHouse renovation, managing house tours. Sure we could play mahjong and drink, but those are side activities and we already had card groups and drinking events.
Of the entire group of friends, only some live even fairly close to each other (no one in the same neighborhood). So we've turned our individual attentions to other pursuits (including our own neighborhoods). Fortunately, none of us are of a mind to play mahjongg and ... well, okay, we drink ;) (though I don't believe I've seen any of us even tipsy). Besides camping, some of the guys go on longer bike rides, there's lots of running around after grandchildren (and, in one case, a mom with Alzheimer's), and we leave the extensive lounging for cruises. We are fortunate in that most of this group can say pretty directly what they want, even if it's just that what they want is nothing to do with the others for a few hours. It's a group norm and it would be a must in a cohousing situation.

[catherine]

I've always loved the idea of a family OR friends compound and in particular, I liked this model:

http://www.theplaidzebra.com/8-best-friends-built-a-tiny-house-town-in-the-middle-of-nowhere-to-retire-in-style/

[pinkytoe]

DD's in-laws have just completed a family "compound" in the Texas Hill Country. They built several small cabins on about 35 acres. The grandchildren and family will enjoy weekend visits playing in the stream and campfires under the stars. The cabins have lofts with ladders to climb up for the kiddos. We are even thinking about building a little get away tiny house on "the land" as it is referred to since they invited us to do so.

[Teacher Terry]

I am a extrovert and I agree with IL.

[rosarugosa]

I like the kind of concept that Steve outlines. We talk about co-housing with my sister. I think we could certainly do so amicably, but it is challenging to figure out all the details.

[iris lilies]

DD's in-laws have just completed a family "compound" in the Texas Hill Country. They built several small cabins on about 35 acres. The grandchildren and family will enjoy weekend visits playing in the stream and campfires under the stars. The cabins have lofts with ladders to climb up for the kiddos. We are even thinking about building a little get away tiny house on "the land" as it is referred to since they invited us to do so.
That sounds very nice!

[Tybee]

Wow, how idyllyic, Pinkytoe! Build the tiny house!!

[catherine]

Wow, how idyllyic, Pinkytoe! Build the tiny house!!

I agree! Do it! Maybe that will help relieve the residual homesickness you express having felt now and then since your move, and will provide a place for you to visit with the kids and grandkids especially. It's a no-brainer to me.

[Teacher Terry]

PT, that sounds like fun and a great way to enjoy the grandchildren.

[jp1]

I tend to have the same reaction as IL. The only cohousing situation I've seen that would be tolerable to me was an unintentional one that a friend of mine created. He's a very outgoing person so when he moved to a random small. (Maybe 10 unit) apartment building in Sausalito he proceeded to quickly become good friends with half the building. They would do things like grill together on the shared deck every weekend, go do activities together like a sailboat cruise around the bay, etc. it seemed like a fun group but it worked because they happened to all like each other. My friend, through force of personality, was the glue that made it all work. When they had parties it would be in all of their apartments with guests randomly hanging out in all of them.

[pinkytoe]

Unfortunately, we don't have a lot in common with the in-laws so for now it is just an idea we entertain.