Movie - Forks over Knives

[pinkytoe]

Saw this documentary yesterday with dh and found it very informative. It promotes a whole foods, plant-based diet and shows through lengthy research the harmful effects of eating meat and dairy can have to the human body. Though I currently eat very moderate amounts of dairy and meat, we have decided to try to lessen amounts drastically after seeing this film. DH will be a perfect candidate to see if a mostly vegan diet works in his case as he is 50 pounds overweight with all the accompanying maladies - high blood pressure and cholesterol etc. He was really convinced when they showed super athletes, ie manly men, who don't eat meat or dairy and still have muscles and stamina. I know there are different schools of thought on this but the evidence is pretty convincing that eating this way is healthier for your heart and general health.

[Florence]

I just checked and it is showing in Houston. I'll definitely go to see it. Thanks.

[sweetana3]

In Defense of Food by Michael Pollan is a great read. We listened to it as an audio book and we both enjoyed his approach.

[loosechickens]

Also, the book The China Study, is pretty eye opening on this subject........

[Zoebird]

Here are some of my favorite books on food and health (note, I was vegan, then vegetarian, and now paleo -- a grain/legume free omnivore): The Vegetarian Myth; Animal Vegetable Miracle; The Omnivore's Dilemma. You might also be interested in Gary Taubes work (lots of science).

These books didn't convince me, my own health did. After being vegan for many years, I started to have health problems. After being vegetarian (no meat, not even fish or chicken, because, technically, fish and chicken are meat and people who eat it are omnivores), I got a bit better and then started having health problems. And then finally paleo -- and everything cleared up and is doing nicely.

From the research that I have done over the years, the "real answer" seems to be local, sustainable farming such as Polyface Farm in VA. I'm lucky that, here in NZ, we have lots of opportunities to support these sorts of farms. More and more are going organic (yes!), too.

So, uhm, I'm pretty sure the science in this movie is either misused or "off" just based on the many years in the community when many things that people would say "science shows!" were either misused, misunderstood, or confused. But hey, up to you. :)

[Zoebird]

Oh, and fwiw, I was never a "junk food" vegan/vegetarian -- always whole foods, always organic, and as much local and fresh as I could get. Most everything made from scratch. It was tastier and less expensive. Many of my vegan and vegetarian favorites are still on our regular menu -- why would I ever give up morrocan carrot soup or algernian onion soup? Makes no sense, they are awesome. :D

[pinkytoe]

One thing I have never understood about diets is that it is never really brought up that we are all different and so there is no one size fits all. Nevertheless, I don't think it will hurt dh at all to give this a go. I was proud of him today; he ordered a smoked veggie taco instead of his usual char-broiled beef taco when we ate out.

[Debbie SE MI]

I have been a vegetarian for about 15 years, not for health reasons just that I like animals. I eat very little dairy and eggs, but have been getting them out of my diet too. I need to take the time to make more things from scratch, I guess I'm a junk food vegetarian.

[Zoebird]

(to be honest, it was simply to avoid the common misconception. "If vegetarianism didn't work for you, you were doing it wrong. you were probably not eating whole foods, or not eating enough diversity, or didn't cook from scratch or didn't plan. . ." :D not an inditement of how anyone else may choose to eat. one of my friends is vegan and she uses a lot of processed vegan foods like vegan cheese but also lots of whole foods right along side.)

[Karma]

The vegan thing thing did not work for us. At first we loved it and we doing very well but then I stopped feeling good, my cholesterol numbers got worse and my husband lost muscle mass. We ate a low fat whole foods diet. I lost 10 pounds the first month but that was it (vegan for 6 months). I started to eat animal protein again and my health has improved and my husband started drinking whey protein and eating eggs and a little meat from time to has increased his muscles by a bunch and has a lot more energy now.

I really wanted the vegan thing to work, I think it is a healthy choice for many but not for all. I am Leary of anyone saying that one way of eating is the only one that is healthy.

[folkypoet]

Enjoyed Forks Over Knives immensely. My mother, brother and I saw it just last week (to celebrate her retirement!). We already eat a whole foods vegan diet, had already read The China Study, etc., so we went in knowing pretty much everything that was presented. Still, though, we had a blast. Both Dr. T. Colin Campbell and Dr. Caldwell Esselstyn were such fun to watch on screen - very distinguished, handsome men. And I've had a small crush on Dr. Neal Barnard for years. :o) But, aside from that, the movie was fabulous - fairly low-budget (which is always nice to see), very direct, good graphics (for explanation purposes), and filled with lovely people who were able to become healthy eating this way (the girl toward the end was just so sweet!). To me, this way of eating just feels right. It makes sense to me. Still, it's nice to have what one feels confirmed by scientific studies. :o)

Anyone interested in reading more after seeing the movie would do well to pick up Dr. Joel Fuhrman's Eat to Live. Here's the Amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/Eat-Live-Amazing-Nutrient-Rich-Sustained/dp/031612091X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1306160545&sr=8-1). It's a program, rather than studies and data like Campbell's The China Study (though, really, pick this one up, too - you'll be amazed at the link between animal-based foods and cancer - The China Study was MASSIVE), but because of that, it's a lot easier to get through; it's simply less dense. And, heck, my mother happens to be one of the (many) regular people quoted at the beginning of the new edition. :o) Isn't that smashing?

[pinkytoe]

And then there are those out there who promote a full fat, no grain diet - so there is always plenty of conflicting info to choose from.

[benhyr]

And then there are those out there who promote a full fat, no grain diet - so there is always plenty of conflicting info to choose from.

ala Atkins, Dukin, the paleo diet, etc.

Best I can do, I decided, is to tune in to how my body reacts to food and go from there. High-carb foods are right out for me... I'm not diabetic, but I know eating white-flour pancakes with syrup for breakfast and I'm sweating and shaking before noon. Similarly, the thought of eating nothing but meat (although strictly speaking, just has to be high protein) just sounds gross. So, whole wheat, brown rice, tons of veggies, protein and I'll go from there. If I don't report back, assume it went very badly and vegetables can kill you.

Oh, and thanks for the book recs, folkypoet. I'm going to check them out!

eta: http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/releases/226137.php - link between high red meat intake and colorectal cancer strengthened.

[kally]

I really enjoyed the movie and last night we went to a vegan potluck for the first time. Everything was so good. I have to be careful as I need to keep my saturated fats really low and no coconut at all. But we had a chickpea stew, a couscous salad, a lovely tofu and rice dish and two dips made from nuts and veggies. Following it was a great apple cake.

Seriously, I could easily live like this if someone did all the cooking. But for now I guess it is me.

[Suzanne]

It's always a good idea to look at as many sides of an idea as possible. There is no doubt that simply removing processed, packaged, and fast foods from the diet and replacing them with vegetables and fruits is beneficial to anybody. However, some of the science purveyed by "Forks over Knives" is a little shaky. There's a good review here: http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/09/22/forks-over-knives-is-the-science-legit-a-review-and-critique/

Note that Denise Minger was a raw foods vegan for a long time, and currently eats only small amounts of animal protein (raw! not for me!) to balance her diet, which is still mostly raw plant foods. She happily tackles all sides of the food/health debates, including her most recent post, in which she investigates the case against Ancel Keys and finds him not guilty...

[pinkytoe]

DH and I used to have a vegetarian meal once a week and are now down to meat (usually salmon) only once a week; still eating a little cheese and eggs. Our dinner is often now a huge (think popcorn bowl) of salad with a varied array of things added - beets, snap peas, mushrooms, red cabbage, asparagus, cukes, carrots, peppers, tomatos, pumpkin seeds, blueberries, sorrel...whatever we can find. It is hard to go back to the way we used to eat. I don't really want to be vegan but am deeply troubled lately by the way we treat our food animals. Very curious as I never really gave it much thought so I don't know why my conscience about this is changing. I think it takes six months or so to see the effects of diet changes. Thus far we have both lost weight but that was not the intention. We all have to figure out what works best for us and I think mine and dh's diet choices are still evolving.

[Zoebird]

our salads are the same, pinky toe, but we add meat/chicken/fish to it. It's about 5oz a day for me and 1-2 eggs. It's really not a lot, in the grand scheme of things.

i was vegan, tried raw veganism and fruitarianism a couple of times, then vegetarian, and now paleo. paleo seems to work well for my body. so, that's what I do.

My preference is for raw fruit and veg.

[JaneV2.0]

Suzanne beat me to citing Denise Minger, who has done brilliant (IMO) analyses of Forks Over Knives and Campbell's The China Study. I'm thrilled she has a book coming out.

[Miss Cellane]

I think the key thing is to experiment and find the diet, aka living plan, that works for you. Just as different people have different reactions to medications, I think people react differently to the food they eat. Give 4 people the same medication. One person will improve and feel fine. One will have no effect at all or very little effect from the medication. One will have improvement, but a minor side effect. And someone else will have major side effects to the point where they can't continue to take the medication.

I was a vegetarian for years, but had enormous difficulty keeping my iron levels up. My doctor had me taking huge horse pills of iron and I was still borderline anemic. Part of my problem is that I can't stand the taste of eggs, so while those would have been beneficial to a vegetarian diet, I couldn't force myself to eat them. Because I think you should enjoy the food you eat, not choke it down as some sort of penance. I cooked nearly everything from scratch and spent hours working out how to get enough protein and iron in my food. Part of the reason I stopped the vegetarian diet was that even after 5 years, I was still struggling to find a healthy balance where I could stop having to work so much at what I ate. It seemed like trying to plan meals for the week was consuming hours of my time, while my doctor still had major concerns about anemia and a few other things.

These days, the way I put it is that I eat like a vegetarian 4 days a week. The other three I have one or two meals that include meat, fish or poultry. I still need an iron supplement, but the dose is much, much lower and my iron count is good. And overall, I feel as if I have more energy and pep.

On the other hand, I know someone who went totally vegan, although she uses a lot of processed vegan food. She's lost 70 pounds and her diabetes has improved greatly--her doctor has taken her off one of her medications and reduced the amount she takes of the others.

My feeling is that, with in reason, there are no good or bad diets. (I suspect McDonalds three meals a day isn't good for anyone.) There are diets that work for you. And there are diets that don't. It's a matter of trial and error to figure out what works for you.

[Suzanne]

I'm sorry, Miss Cellane, that you had such a hard time. I'd guess that your body needs heme iron and doesn't do well with plant-sourced forms.