What's your take on Trump's address? [Archive]

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gimmethesimplelife

1-9-19, 5:18pm

Color me unconvinced and afraid. Rob

bae

1-9-19, 5:59pm

What did he say that made you fearful?

(I watched Stormy Daniels' competing speech.)

gimmethesimplelife

1-9-19, 6:23pm

What did he say that made you fearful?

(I watched Stormy Daniels' competing speech.)Nothing in particular new other than the fact that Trump did not once refer to the Federal workers now on a Trump Created And Fully Responsible For Economic Rollercoaster. That I find very scary. Moving along, how was Stormy Daniel's speech? Rob

jp1

1-9-19, 7:07pm

Rob, I didn’t watch it (not to my taste or yours) but i don’t believe Stormy actually gave a speech.

bae

1-9-19, 7:32pm

Rob, I didn’t watch it (not to my taste or yours) but i don’t believe Stormy actually gave a speech.

She simply livestreamed herself folding laundry for the duration. I wish there had been a closeup of the fitted-sheet-folding, those always throw me.

jp1

1-9-19, 7:41pm

Wasn’t she supposed to do this in her underwear?

I get around the fitted sheet folding problem by only owning one set of sheets. I wash them and they go directly back on the bed.

bae

1-9-19, 8:14pm

Wasn’t she supposed to do this in her underwear?

I was captivated by the Kondo-like folding and sorting approach.

I get around the fitted sheet folding problem by only owning one set of sheets. I wash them and they go directly back on the bed.

I am becoming the master of "living out of the clean laundry basket" myself :-)

jp1

1-9-19, 9:55pm

I was captivated by the Kondo-like folding and sorting approach.

She just gets more impressive every time I hear anything about her. Not only did she apparently not throw up a little in her mouth at the idea of having sex with trump (admittedly I'm just assuming that. I suppose it's possible she did and he just handed her a tic tac and went on with business...) but she has a Kondo-like folding and sorting approach to laundry!? I bet she also dances as good as AOC!

jp1

1-9-19, 10:10pm

But back to the original topic, last night I was still, ummm, on the fence about this whole thing. But now that I know about the super duper cars those evil Mexicans have, I've come around...

https://www.dailykos.com/stories/2019/1/9/1824831/-Trump-Also-we-need-a-wall-because-border-crossers-have-um-faster-cars-than-we-do

Williamsmith

1-9-19, 11:49pm

My empathy for Federal workers is tempered by my many experiences of working without a paycheck myself. First, I realized that I was an essential worker and subject to continued work without pay during a government shutdown. And so I prepared for that eventuality by having an emergency fund which I could take supplemental money from while I was not being paid. In addition, I did not take loans (with the exception of a mortgage) that I could not either pay off or that my lender would not provide me with a deferment upon request. I had to go to my banker several times to ask for continued grace until the budget was passed. And further, the state provided a line of credit which I could use if I ran out of money.

So when Nancy and Chuck cry in their beer (or wine) over the starving government employees who are about to lose their house....I yawn. Perhaps we should just let the man build his wall and get on with the next crisis.

jp1

1-10-19, 1:25am

Or mitch mcconnell should acknowledge that he’s not part of the executive branch, get the senate to re-pass the budget bill that passed with 100 veto-proof votes and we could get on with our lives without wasting $5b on a pathetic wall to satisfy a trumper tantrum and his sad loser supporters.

ApatheticNoMore

1-10-19, 2:59am

My empathy for Federal workers is tempered by my many experiences of working without a paycheck myself. First, I realized that I was an essential worker and subject to continued work without pay during a government shutdown. And so I prepared for that eventuality by having an emergency fund which I could take supplemental money from while I was not being paid.

yea somewhat, I mean they can collect unemployment, literally, they can collect unemployment. They are eligible. So it's not actually living without a check. But unemployment is not generous, frankly not enough to live off entirely. No it's not, but that's a separate issue, maybe it should pay better! But as is tons of unemployed people live off it while looking for work, somehow, and they do it every day facing REAL uncertainty of when they will ever work again. Suffice to say I know people who may be out of work soon - but probably not me by some miracle - thank you heaven (as well as those who are still out of work) and they aren't government workers. It's hard to have much sympathy for the government workers when one is surrounded by good accomplished people in far worse desperation.

ApatheticNoMore

1-10-19, 3:26am

But I listened to some of Trump and the Dems. Trump literally plays MENTALLY ILL on t.v.. Do I think he *is* mentally ill? Probably not, I think he feigns his delusions to appeal to whoever the heck his base is (probably not who we keep being told they are). But it's really wrong that we have the guy feigning mental illness for a President. Hard to believe.

He was full of it (regardless of what one thinks about immigration and if we should allow in more or less immigrants, he's just delusional, convinced immigrants are all committing crimes and so on ... it's pure nonsense).

Pelosi/Shumer came across as way better than Trump of course, as if that was hard to do, it's like coming across better than the guy on the corner talking to himself and screaming at people passing by.

Sure they were mildly annoying in their own way. Partly just because the whole spectacle was annoying. A whole debate about symbolism pretty much. Meanwhile no addressing of any issues anyone might actually want government to deal with. But they were in the reactive position, Trump was leading this dance of madness, so I can cut them some slack in this case.

Politics has descended into pure symbolism, symbolism unmoored from anything. Pure acting and bathos. It's almost as if it were deliberate, like they don't want anyone to have even the slightest hope they could address any issues they care about.

6 billion hmm well even if it was the equivalent of flushed down the toilet (Trump's wall), doesn't the government actually waste that type of money all the time, just being realistic here.

Miss Cellaneous

1-10-19, 10:07am

ApatheticNoMore

1-10-19, 11:56am

I grow more and more concerned about the twisting of facts and statistics by the White House.

While many from the White House have been saying that nearly 4,000 terrorists have been held and implying that this happened at the southern border, only about 6 people fit this category. However, about 90 people on the watch list were caught at our northern border. https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/imm...-first-n955861

I know politicians bend the truth, but this seems to go well beyond that.

yea feigning mental illness is the best way I can describe it, because to be that out of touch with reality is well insane (what what other word would you prefer for entirely absent from reality? though I apologize to the insane, as most of them are harmless afterall). I was surprised it was even 6 though. I would have estimated the number at: zero. More terrorists than I imagine I guess. Although isn't the watch list itself questionable at this point, certainly the no-fly list was.

I don't care if someone is not for open borders (neither am I) or wants a different immigration policy. Fine. But the reasons Trump wants it are literally insane.

Rogar

1-10-19, 12:06pm

ApatheticNoMore

1-10-19, 12:42pm

There is already a physical barrier at some parts of the border (ha probably where the one or two criminals that happened to be immigrants crossed). There are also things like tunnels under the border that smugglers have built though. It is my understanding that border security people think other measures are more effective than a wall if a wall is effective AT ALL (but I'm not an expert) and that's just people coming in via the border. And that's not even getting into they could target employers of illegal immigrants if they really wanted to crack down on immigration (some of this goes on, but not very much it seems). Of course we'd still need a guest worker type program.

JaneV2.0

1-10-19, 1:05pm

The news seems to focus on the veracity of what Trump has said and the denials by the democrats. I think the terrorist and drug smuggling allegations are probably not real. I suspect the bulk of illegal drugs coming up from the border use vehicles on common roads, airplanes, or maybe tunnels.

What I don't know that I wish the reporting would focus on rather than the political bickering is the magnitude of a border issue with people entering the country illegally and whether the border security experts actually think any sort of additional physical barrier, large or small, would actually serve any helpful purpose. I don't get the impression there is much unbiased information being reported on those things.

Illegal immigration has been down for years. Smuggling generally happens at checkpoints, per Gen. McCaffrey, who ought to know. Immigrants of all kinds commit far fewer crimes than the rest of us (you can look it up). Opioid use is mainly due to over-prescribing and distribution within the country. Human trafficking is no more a border problem than it is elsewhere. The only "border crisis" is the shameful way this country is treating legal asylum seekers. This whole brouhaha is just a smokescreen for an out of control administration and a way to wring campaign contributions from their flock. https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/trump-uses-network-wall-speech-to-raise-re-election-bucks

Teacher Terry

1-10-19, 2:15pm

You nailed it Jane!

JaneV2.0

1-10-19, 3:07pm

Forbes knows the score.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2019/01/10/there-is-no-border-crisis/?utm_source=FBPAGE&utm_medium=social&utm_content=2073543475&utm_campaign=sprinklrForbesMainFB#2ade46126a52

I watched Republican John Kasich the other night, making an argument for guest workers. But repugnant Stephen Miller and his cabal--which includes Trump--hates even the thought of non-Aryan immigration/accomodation, and will work to the death trying to prevent it.

"Open borders" has never been on the table; bi-partisan agreements have been floated that cover DACA (which is obviously anathema to the cabal mentioned above) and increased personnel, training, and technology on the border. But that's not good enough for Trump. He wants a commemorative wall.

Rogar

1-10-19, 3:20pm

Illegal immigration has been down for years. Smuggling generally happens at checkpoints, per Gen. McCaffrey, who ought to know. Immigrants of all kinds commit far fewer crimes than the rest of us (you can look it up). Opioid use is mainly due to over-prescribing and distribution within the country. Human trafficking is no more a border problem than it is elsewhere. The only "border crisis" is the shameful way this country is treating legal asylum seekers. This whole brouhaha is just a smokescreen for an out of control administration and a way to wring campaign contributions from their flock. https://www.broadcastingcable.com/news/trump-uses-network-wall-speech-to-raise-re-election-bucks

Can I take then that people entering the country illegally across the southern border is OK? That probably is not the take of the last few administrations and the best I can figure is not my take either. Highlighting a quote from Obama, "...today our immigration system is broken - and everybody knows it". I don't think it is taken out of context. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-agree-trump-administration-immigration-policies/ There is also little doubt in my mind that Trump exaggerating almost everything about it, but that doesn't mean a crisis or at least a problem, does not exist.

The border wall probably oversimplifies a solution, but it does not mean that the addition of physical barriers in certain spots may help. There are already quite a few in place. On the other hand there is no indication that the border security the democrats seem to accept is the only solution. So it seems to me like a battle of politics with no one really taking an objective look at what does and doesn't work.

Border deportations are down, but still millions in a decade or so and that is just the deportations and not those crossing illegally and not apprehended, and I'd just take a swag that those who enter the country and escape deportation is at least as large. https://www.usnews.com/news/data-mine/articles/2018-03-13/fewer-crossing-border-fewer-deported-immigration-under-trump

I have wondered why the dems have not used some or of path to citizenship as a bargaining chip? As in DACA.

Williamsmith

1-10-19, 3:37pm

Specifically responding to the OP’s direct question.......It’s a nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there.

catherine

1-10-19, 3:57pm

Specifically responding to the OP’s direct question.......It’s a nice place to visit but I wouldn’t want to live there.

I suspect that's exactly what Melania is thinking.

JaneV2.0

1-10-19, 4:09pm

Can I take then that people entering the country illegally across the southern border is OK? That probably is not the take of the last few administrations and the best I can figure is not my take either. Highlighting a quote from Obama, "...today our immigration system is broken - and everybody knows it". I don't think it is taken out of context. https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/obama-agree-trump-administration-immigration-policies/ There is also little doubt in my mind that Trump exaggerating almost everything about it, but that doesn't mean a crisis or at least a problem, does not exist.

The border wall probably oversimplifies a solution, but it does not mean that the addition of physical barriers in certain spots may help. There are already quite a few in place. On the other hand there is no indication that the border security the democrats seem to accept is the only solution. So it seems to me like a battle of politics with no one really taking an objective look at what does and doesn't work.

Border deportations are down, but still millions in a decade or so and that is just the deportations and not those crossing illegally and not apprehended, and I'd just take a swag that those who enter the country and escape deportation is at least as large. https://www.usnews.com/news/data-mine/articles/2018-03-13/fewer-crossing-border-fewer-deported-immigration-under-trump

I have wondered why the dems have not used some or of path to citizenship as a bargaining chip? As in DACA.

This country has all kinds of problems. IMO, illegal immigration is the least of them. Infrastructure, health care, anthropogenic climate change, environmental concerns, homelessness all loom larger (and probably some I haven't thought of) in my mind. We have a large, expensive border defense system in place we can beef up if it makes us feel better. As I've said ad nauseum, no one is proposing open borders, and some kind of guest-worker program would take the Illegality out of the equation. Or we could crack down on employers, if the idea of foreign-born workers is scary.

A path to citizenship is apparently a no-go unless it comes from Ronald Reagan.

bae

1-10-19, 4:21pm

The border issue is great though for arousing and maintaining nativist sentiment, and getting people to focus on the Danger Of The Other, instead of the Danger of the Federal Bridge That Fell Into The River.

Classic.

Rogar

1-10-19, 5:15pm

This country has all kinds of problems....

No disagreement that our spending priorities are way out of line. Matter of fact I've been wondering about the promises for infrastructure improvements. And any significant spending on climate change issues will have to wait for the next regime. But out of the long list of problems the reality is that our leaders have decided to spend a couple of billion out of several trillion on border security one way or another, and that is the debate. I could see that as an appropriate amount relative to the issues, but in the big scheme of things is small change either way.

I guess my issue is that both sides have turned it into a political arena rather than improving upon past solutions that have been less than perfect.

Teacher Terry

1-10-19, 5:31pm

I totally agree Jane.

CathyA

1-10-19, 5:44pm

What I'm finding so surprising is that a person such as he, can continue to be the president. It's unbelievable, shameful, and there's no excuse for it. The future presidents will spend decades trying to undo all the damage he's done.
The emperor has no clothes..........

Williamsmith

1-10-19, 10:16pm

gimmethesimplelife

1-10-19, 11:12pm

Well, there is going to be an entire nudist colony in D.C. soon.LOL Williamsmith. Good one. Rob