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frugalone
1-23-19, 1:35pm
This is gonna be a long one...just sayin'. I'll start by saying that I've always had trouble making and keeping friends, whether in real life or online. I'm not sure why. Maybe, as someone pointed out on here, it's b/c I'm kind of a pessimist. Anyway. Backstory: I had this friend, Darlene, since about 1987. She had a best friend, Karla, that she met in first grade. Karla always lived away, as her spouse was in the military. The three of us took vacations together from time to time, and Karla and I became close through email. Finally, upon her husband's retirement, K moved back to our hometown.

Darlene and I used to talk on the phone every day and were very close. She was my best friend at one point. However, about 10 years ago, I got kind of fed up with some of her behavior, and while we never discussed it, or had a falling out, I just sort of cut waaay down on my communication with her. In the meantime, Karla and I became quite close. And when we'd get together, she'd tell me (over the past several years, now) how Karla was ghosting her, mistreating her, being rude on occasions, etc. etc. She would be literally weeping, saying, "What did I do wrong? I don't understand why she doesn't want to hang out with me anymore." Since I couldn't really understand either, I kind of took Karla's side.

OK, fast forward to this past fall. We all used to hang out with one of Karla's sisters. This sister was diagnosed with a fast-moving cancer and given a month to live. The last time I actually talked to Karla, she was sobbing on the phone and telling me they were putting sister in hospice. I stayed in touch via voice mail and text, letting her know I was thinking of her. She would respond every so often. Sister died in early December. Two days later, I got a phone call from Darlene, crying and telling me that Karla's 13-year-old grandson had died in a gun related incident. I later learned it was suicide. D and I kind of "made up" during that call, and agreed we would get together soon. I could not attend the boy's funeral, but my husband did. Karla and I texted back and forth for a couple of weeks. The last time I heard from her, she wished me a happy new year. I called her about 2 weeks later and both her phone lines went into voice mail, and voice mail was full. I texted her to let her know that they were full, and that I missed her, was thinking of her, etc.

Now, in the meantime, Darlene had said to me that we should take Karla out for dinner. That Karla wanted to do "fun things." I also noticed that all of a sudden, Darlene was seeing quite a lot of Karla. Now, I get it, I understand--Karla needs support. But, um, what am I to make of all the negative stuff I've heard for YEARS about Darlene? And, this Friday is Darlene's birthday. I suggested last week via text that we all go out to eat. D just happened to be a K's house. She said, "I'll have to let you know." I translate that as "maybe if nothing better comes along." Why do I think that way? Because K has mentioned that D does that. Also, since K and D were sitting right there together, could they not have discussed it and given me some sort of a reply other than "I'll let you know"?

I've made donations in both the sister's and the grandson's names to charities that the family would appreciate.

I have bought both of them birthday gifts and cards, and as of today, Wednesday, I've heard nothing.

I'm not trying to be a witch here. I understand Karla has suffered an unbelievable loss, and everyone in my women's group told me, "She'll need you when the flurry of the funeral is over and everyone has gone home." But I'm getting the distinct impression that, um, I'm not wanted.

Am I paranoid? Is Darlene being somewhat rude? What am I to make of Karla's about-face regarding Darlene?

Should I just step back?

Teacher Terry
1-23-19, 3:47pm
I would step back and wait to see what happens.

nswef
1-23-19, 3:58pm
I agree with Terry.Take a breath and wait.

Tybee
1-23-19, 4:23pm
Good advice. When I am in similar circumstances, I try to release the person or people, send loving thoughts, pray for them, especially if I am angry or hurt. That's all I know how to do, to let it go.

then see what happens later.

Tammy
1-23-19, 4:28pm
I would subtract everything you ever heard about anybody when it was spoken to you without that person present. ThatÂ’s gossip. Not to be paid any mind.

Then what you have left is truth. Nothing else deserves your attention.

Going forward, refuse to talk about anyone who is not present.

You will soon see who is a true friend.

razz
1-23-19, 5:04pm
I would subtract everything you ever heard about anybody when it was spoken to you without that person present. ThatÂ’s gossip. Not to be paid any mind.

Then what you have left is truth. Nothing else deserves your attention.

Going forward, refuse to talk about anyone who is not present.

You will soon see who is a true friend.
+1

iris lilies
1-23-19, 7:38pm
I would subtract everything you ever heard about anybody when it was spoken to you without that person present. ThatÂ’s gossip. Not to be paid any mind.

Then what you have left is truth. Nothing else deserves your attention.

Going forward, refuse to talk about anyone who is not present.

You will soon see who is a true friend.

This is gold.^^^ (above)

OP, it doesnt matter what Karla did or said to Darlene, or vice verse. You have a relationship with Karla that is different from the relationship that Karla and Darlene have with each other. That is ok! You dont have to take either “side”. Be your own person.

But I will say that human triangles are tricky and any friend group composed of 3 will likely be playing one against the other at some point.

I have a newish friend who has exhibited quite a bit of problematic behavior but within the boundaries I have set, exclusively with me and in roles she takes on in our mutural organizations, she is fairly ok. But I am watching her and will not open up an opportunity to be burned. Friendly at arms length I guess is how I characterize our relationship.

frugalone
1-24-19, 12:47pm
I would subtract everything you ever heard about anybody when it was spoken to you without that person present. ThatÂ’s gossip. Not to be paid any mind.

Then what you have left is truth. Nothing else deserves your attention.

Going forward, refuse to talk about anyone who is not present.

You will soon see who is a true friend.

Your post was eye opening. I did not realize what Karla was doing was gossip. I always thought of it as crying on my shoulder.

I'm not sure about a true friend being revealed, but I'll take your advice. Thank you.

frugalone
1-24-19, 12:50pm
This is gold.^^^ (above)

OP, it doesnt matter what Karla did or said to Darlene, or vice verse. You have a relationship with Karla that is different from the relationship that Karla and Darlene have with each other. That is ok! You dont have to take either “side”. Be your own person.

But I will say that human triangles are tricky and any friend group composed of 3 will likely be playing one against the other at some point.

I have a newish friend who has exhibited quite a bit of problematic behavior but within the boundaries I have set, exclusively with me and in roles she takes on in our mutural organizations, she is fairly ok. But I am watching her and will not open up an opportunity to be burned. Friendly at arms length I guess is how I characterize our relationship.

It is quite funny that you should say that about human triangles. Years ago, Darlene gave me a pin with three women represented on it, and there was a little card from the artist that went with it, with some saying about how a triad of friends was special. In my personal experience, it's always been very difficult for me to deal with more than one person at a time.

thank you for your advice. I do need to work at being my own person.

catherine
1-24-19, 2:32pm
I agree that 3 is a very bad number when it comes to friendships. I agree completely with IL and also with Tammy. Yes, talking about someone behind their back is gossip. If you are good friends with a person, and a third party throws shade on that person, how does it make you feel? Listen to your gut.

frugalone
1-24-19, 3:51pm
I agree that 3 is a very bad number when it comes to friendships. I agree completely with IL and also with Tammy. Yes, talking about someone behind their back is gossip. If you are good friends with a person, and a third party throws shade on that person, how does it make you feel? Listen to your gut.

I can tell you how it makes me feel: I am wondering if the two of them are now talking about ME. I'd be willing to put money on it.

Zoe Girl
1-25-19, 7:18am
Your post was eye opening. I did not realize what Karla was doing was gossip. I always thought of it as crying on my shoulder.

I'm not sure about a true friend being revealed, but I'll take your advice. Thank you.

There is a difference between gossip and asking for support in a difficult relationship. I generally go to someone outside the small group for support when I really need it rather than a mutual friend. I know that eventually the one I am sharing with will be aligning with the other person. In that case it takes a lot of maturity to not share some things, and little irritations become inflated and negative. There have been some times that I needed a reality check or some validation, but even that is tricky.

iris lilies
1-25-19, 9:34am
I can tell you how it makes me feel: I am wondering if the two of them are now talking about ME. I'd be willing to put money on it.
Yes, they talk about you. So what? I just assume others talk about me to some extent when I am not there.The talk may be largely positive, and that is ok. People who speak negatively of me most of the time probably dont want to be my friend, and that is ok as their choice.

Tybee
1-25-19, 10:42am
I can tell you how it makes me feel: I am wondering if the two of them are now talking about ME. I'd be willing to put money on it.

There is a great saying I learned at Al Anon: "Someone else's opinion of me is none of my business."

Another is: "I can keep my side of the street swept."

And that's really all you can do--do the right thing, be the person you want to be, in keeping with your values--you are obviously a kind and caring person, and you act accordingly.

The fall out is beyond your control, and not really important, imho. Set appropriate boundaries, be the kind person you are, and don't worry about what they are saying.

iris lilies
1-25-19, 11:05am
There is a great saying I learned at Al Anon: "Someone else's opinion of me is none of my business."

.

I like that!

catherine
1-25-19, 11:53am
I like that!

me too!!

saguaro
1-28-19, 12:14pm
There's a lot of good advice here and I like the phrase "someone else's opinion of me is none of my business"

To the OP, I agree with stepping back and seeing how things shake out. Especially since of the friends is grieving. Be there for support but not try to get too worried about what's going with Darlene. After all, things could change again once things get a bit more settled for Karla.

frugalone
2-5-19, 3:49pm
UPDATE: I thought I would update the situation. I never did hear from Darlene. I got a text message, somewhat truncated, from Karla. It was hard to figure out what she was trying to say, but I believe she said her emotional distress is causing her physical pain.

I've decided to mail Karla's birthday gift to her, as I really don't know when I'll see her. As for Darlene, I wish I could say I'm surprised that she never got back to me. It's an old pattern and I just don't think I'm very important to her anymore. I'll hold onto her birthday gift indefinitely.

I have too much going on with my house move to really worry about this.

frugalone
3-13-19, 12:23pm
ANOTHER UPDATE: It's a whole month (and more later). Never did mail the gift to her. Spouse is dropping it off on her front porch this afternoon. I sent another text message, got no reply, waited two or three weeks, sent another, got another truncated message. I asked her to please send it in plain text (she has a smartphone and I do not) and she says she is. She also says I'm the only person who can't read her text messages. I've asked her to call, email, anything. All I could make out of the message is "Hanging in there."

As for Darlene, she never brought up going out to dinner again. I asked DH (who has known her as long as I have) if Darlene's always been rather self centered and spoiled. He said yes. I guess I just never noticed it until a few years ago, and I'd say she hasn't changed either.

Teacher Terry
3-13-19, 12:45pm
At this point you have done all you can and I would wait for her to make the first move.

frugalone
3-13-19, 1:06pm
You're right. I know people grieve differently, and I know it's only been three months. And I know it's been a tremendous loss.

Perhaps I'm being selfish, expecting her to get in touch with me. But I still feel hurt.

frugalone
3-13-19, 1:14pm
You're right. I know people grieve differently, and I know it's only been three months. And I know it's been a tremendous loss.

Perhaps I'm being selfish, expecting her to get in touch with me. But I still feel hurt.

frugalone
3-14-19, 12:57pm
YET ANOTHER UPDATE:

I am happy to report that I got a text from my friend this morning, saying OMG I LOVE IT regarding her gift. She also said she's smiling, looking at it right now. I really wanted to make her smile, so you can imagine how glad I am to read that! She also said "Is it OK if I call this weekend?" Of course it is!

I am smiling too!

frugalone
3-27-19, 2:26pm
And another update: I've tried to call her twice and she still doesn't pick up. She never called me. I guess I'll send her a card every now and then or something.
:(

Geila
3-27-19, 4:33pm
There's that saying, "She's just not that into you." Maybe that's the case here? Either way, it's seems the healthiest thing would be to let it go.

frugalone
3-27-19, 6:11pm
I don't know, Geila. I may not want to face that right now, but you could be right. When you look at the whole story...it's just not adding up. Not for me, anyway.