View Full Version : Here's social progress for you!
gimmethesimplelife
2-2-19, 11:05am
No snark, I am genuinely impressed and appreciative of what I am about to post.
It turns out that the Mayor of South Bend, Indiana is putting his hat in the ring to possibly run for President in 2020 as a Democrat. No biggie in just that but he's also a married, openly gay man. I am so floored - I think his chances of winning are about as high as me being struck by lightning in Phoenix, Arizona - but it says a lot to me that he is running openly as a gay man - even ten years ago this would not have been possible. And the recent new Governor of Colorado? Also an openly gay man and the nation's first openly gay Governor....even under the Trump years this is happening. As much as I complain about this country, I will also say that I am very deeply moved and also impressed by this social progress.
Kudos! Rob
As a fairly new Colorado resident, I am impressed with Gov Polis so far. He is kind of kooky and has hit the ground running. It surprises me that all the staid conservatives here keep their mouths shut about his sexual identity.
There seems to be an upswing in GLBT candidates everywhere. Oregon's governor Kate Brown is bisexual, for example*. I like Sharice Davids, a Native American cage-fighting lesbian attorney and newly-elected representative from Kansas, personally. It's easy to forget that not so long ago, many of our politicians, entertainers, teachers, scientists, etc. were forced to closet themselves in fear of retribution and sometimes their lives.
*And Seattle's last, not particularly effective, but scandal-ridden mayor was gay, IIRC.
I disagree with your assessment of Pete Buttigieg's chances of winning. He's charismatic and a good speaker, appeals to many younger voters, and has been a pretty popular mayor. Not only that, but as a well-liked mayor of a major city in a red state, I think he would have a good chance of turning Indiana blue if he does run, and having a certain degree of "popular local figure" influence on voters in the neighboring swing states of Michigan and Ohio, too. This is not to be construed as an endorsement - I am only cautiously optimistic about him as a candidate, policies wise - but I would not underestimate his chances of winning. I was actually glad when he finally decided to run, because I think he has the potential to increase voter turnout. And if his sexual orientation, military service while openly gay, and marital status can be non-issues in a city like South Bend, I don't really see it being an issue anywhere else that has any potential of going to a Democrat in the first place. We are indeed seeing progress in certain areas of society.
Now I will be surprised the day that an openly gay Republican candidate has any chance of winning a national election - but a few decades from now, who knows?
I don't usually pay any attention to Seattle politics, so I hadn't realized that Seattle's current mayor, Jenny Durkan, is a lesbian. Obviously, sexual orientation is a non-issue around here.
Obviously, sexual orientation is a non-issue around here.Are you sure it's not a requirement?
Are you sure it's not a requirement?
You’re mistaking seattle for palm sorings.
You’re mistaking seattle for palm sorings.:doh:My Bad!
....he's also a married, openly gay man.
http://theconversation.com/why-same-sex-marriage-is-not-the-ultimate-tool-for-queer-liberation-103702
:doh:My Bad!
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.latimes.com/politics/la-me-palm-springs-lgbt-council-20171115-story.html%3foutputType=amp
http://theconversation.com/why-same-sex-marriage-is-not-the-ultimate-tool-for-queer-liberation-103702
While I would agree that legally entangling oneself to another person seems to be the opposite of liberating I think the ability to do so is, in fact, liberating.
While I would agree that legally entangling oneself to another person seems to be the opposite of liberating I think the ability to do so is, in fact, liberating.
Setting "marriage" as the goalpost for queer progress I think is a mistake. It's assimilation into an oppressive patriarchal and racist system, a system in which queers will always be marginalized.
It's like saying "Jews are now allowed to go to Catholic Church, as long as they behave like Catholics and cease bothering us with their odd ways".
http://www.againstequality.org/stuff/against-equality-queer-critiques-of-gay-marriage/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/gay-and-lesbian-well-being/201106/same-sex-marriage-queer-critique
It's like saying "Jews are now allowed to go to Catholic Church, as long as they behave like Catholics and cease bothering us with their odd ways".
They tried something like that in Spain. It didn't end particularly well.
Per the first article, I'm "queer" because I haven't embraced societal norms re marriage, etc. That's a new perspective.
Per the first article, I'm "queer" because I haven't embraced societal norms re marriage, etc. That's a new perspective.
You might enjoy this, Jane:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91hDRkqb6sL.jpg
KCLS has it in electronic format, and I'm in queue. Thanks!
Setting "marriage" as the goalpost for queer progress I think is a mistake. It's assimilation into an oppressive patriarchal and racist system, a system in which queers will always be marginalized.
It's like saying "Jews are now allowed to go to Catholic Church, as long as they behave like Catholics and cease bothering us with their odd ways".
http://www.againstequality.org/stuff/against-equality-queer-critiques-of-gay-marriage/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/gay-and-lesbian-well-being/201106/same-sex-marriage-queer-critique
I've got the book on reserve at the library. It's not being used so I should have it by this weekend.
That said, my first thoughts are 1) most LGBTQ people aren't that radical. 2) change is hard. Getting society to make a massive change like deserting marriage is not likely to happen in my lifetime (although who knows. Getting society to agree that gay people should be allowed to get married was not something I expected to happen in my lifetime). 3) if/when SO is suffering his finally illness (given his health history I expect I will have to deal with this) I hope his next older sister has absolutely no say in his medical treatment. She tried to convince their very ill father to start having more pointless blood transfusions because she couldn't accept his decision to die. It'll be tough enough to deal with her desire but if she actually has power to make that desire happen if/when SO is at that point I'll be devastated because I know that's not what he would want. For better or worse marriage mostly prevents that from happening.
ApatheticNoMore
2-5-19, 12:25am
marriage has mostly been unappealing to me as a woman, a few thousand years of patriarchy will do that I guess.
As a resident of South Bend, I would like to say, don't believe the hype. If you want a good paying job, you drive to Elkhart. I've watched this town go from Maybery to Gothem. Our homeless shelter is so awesome, people come from all over to stay there. And they bring their drugs and crime with them. November of 2016 we had a tent city https://www.southbendtribune.com/news/local/south-bend-officials-say-homeless-tent-city-is-coming-down/article_7171cb36-6789-51ab-a4f0-bf9007926c55.html under a bridge near the baseball stadium. If this is our idea of Progress, God Help this nation.
marriage has mostly been unappealing to me as a woman, a few thousand years of patriarchy will do that I guess.
Likewise. The only advantage I could see was that I'd probably have a nicer house. :thankyou:
Really good marriages can be transcendent--uplifting and transforming for both parties--but I haven't seen many of those.
Word is, marriage is less and less popular among Millennials; certainly reproducing is.
Word is, marriage is less and less popular among Millennials; certainly reproducing is.
I keep hearing people use the word “adulting” as if growing up was optional.
Marriage, faith, family, career and even friendship exceeding the acquaintance level seem to be not worth the effort and risk it takes. I don’t see how so many people can refuse to invest in their own happiness without guaranteeing themselves a miserable life.
ApatheticNoMore
2-5-19, 12:47pm
it is an odd obsession, afterall we all moved out of our parents house so noone could ever get a say again in whether we were doing adulthood right, sorry but those apron strings were cut with my first rent check ... But I guess if you can never afford to move out of your parents house ...
I keep hearing people use the word “adulting” as if growing up was optional.
Marriage, faith, family, career and even friendship exceeding the acquaintance level seem to be not worth the effort and risk it takes. I don’t see how so many people can refuse to invest in their own happiness without guaranteeing themselves a miserable life.
The latest estimates are that happiness is 50% heritable and it's certainly mutable; I'm not sure about "investing" in it--maybe that's just an accounting trope.
None of the conventions you cite--except friendship, and possibly "faith"--however that may be understood--have contributed to my happiness, particularly. I'm certainly not "miserable." I'm sure Millennials will--like all of us--work out which menu items contribute to their well-being, and discard the rest.
There are no guarantees and everyone is different, but I believe you have to work at being happy. It’s not an entitlement or a lottery prize. You can’t wait around for other people or institutions to contribute to your happiness like a Salvation Army bellringer That’s why perpetual victims and parasites tend to such bitterness.
I have found that many of the things that give me the most joy also extract the most terror, toil and tears. I can even look in retrospect at some of my biggest defeats and failures across a gap of years and appreciate the cosmic joke.
Teacher Terry
2-5-19, 3:36pm
JP, you can get a medical POA for your SO if not married
There are no guarantees and everyone is different, but I believe you have to work at being happy. It’s not an entitlement or a lottery prize. You can’t wait around for other people or institutions to contribute to your happiness like a Salvation Army bellringer That’s why perpetual victims and parasites tend to such bitterness.
I have found that many of the things that give me the most joy also extract the most terror, toil and tears. I can even look in retrospect at some of my biggest defeats and failures across a gap of years and appreciate the cosmic joke.
They say you have to work at marriage, too. I never believed that, unless the generally-understood definition of work is different from mine. I do believe that "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." and also that life tends to work out for the better, though recent events in my life strain credulity.
I do think one has a great deal of influence over one's happiness, but whether that's by sheer strength of will or the role of genetic influence, I couldn't say. I agree it's not up to others to provide it.
They say you have to work at marriage, too. I never believed that, unless the generally-understood definition of work is different from mine. I do believe that "what doesn't kill you makes you stronger." and also that life tends to work out for the better, though recent events in my life strain credulity.
.
I have found marriage to be fairly labor-intensive myself; but when I amortize the work and aggravation over the life of the investment there’s a pretty favorable ROI.
I agree with the Stoic line of thought that what does not kill me postpones the inevitable.
...
I agree with the Stoic line of thought that what does not kill me postpones the inevitable.
I can't argue with that! :laff:
iris lilies
2-5-19, 6:15pm
I can say for the most part that I do not even know who these people are that ya’ll are naming.
I think that state of ignorance is one I will continue to cultivate. Ommmmm....
Setting "marriage" as the goalpost for queer progress I think is a mistake. It's assimilation into an oppressive patriarchal and racist system, a system in which queers will always be marginalized.
http://www.againstequality.org/stuff/against-equality-queer-critiques-of-gay-marriage/
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/gay-and-lesbian-well-being/201106/same-sex-marriage-queer-critique
https://thepointmag.com/2018/criticism/whats-left-of-the-gay-left
As the author of this piece points out, the queer left isn't' dead, and it's entirely possible that getting the bourgeois acceptance in society that marriage represents has made it possible for LGB people to be more effective in other fights. Whether that will translate to more action remains to be seen.
The article also mentions something that had sort of been percolating in my mind for a while now. That the AIDS crisis speed up the gay rights movement by forcing large numbers of gay men out of the closet as they were dying. And by giving them literally a life and death reason to become extremely politically vocal. But did that also have the effect of making marriage equality one of the key parts of the LGBT agenda. Probably. after all, of the 1,000-whatever rights and benefits that marriage confers, a decent chunk of them are focused and sickness and death. DOMA got struck down due to a case involving inheritance taxes.
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