The stupid wall

[jp1]

Is now becoming the stupid dangerous wall.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2019/02/07/forget-trumps-border-wall-what-his-concertina-wire-nogales/2806020002/

[Teacher Terry]

I am sure moats and alligators are next:))

[LDAHL]

I think big political projects like the wall or the “new green deal” are meant as political rallying points rather than actual policy goals. Political types are always looking for a big MEOW (moral equivalent of war) to inspire us with their vision. It really doesn’t have anything to do with feasibility or practical outcomes. It has to do with getting supporters in line.

[iris lilies]

This is why I am tired of them all.

and our local political scene is ridiculous. Usually I can drum up interest in these local issues and elections, but my attention is wandering. The screeching of extreme positions here in my city tires me and makes me shut them out. Hermann is looking better and better.

[Williamsmith]

I don’t know if Trump is a genius or a moron but I do know thus far everything he has done has preserved or improved his chances of being re elected in 2020. Including the spat over the wall. He has done or is in the process of doing everything he promised to do and more. Which is exactly why he was elected in the first place and exactly why he will be re elected in 2020.

The Democrats are currently in need of someone who can fire up at least an equivalent base if not one greater than the 40% or so who view concertina razor wire as a fashion statement for southern borders. And the results of the Trump Tax break for the Middle Class are rather striking. My struggling tool & die maker who owed $250 to the IRS last year is getting nearly a grand back this year which will go a long way toward boosting an emergency fund.

Maybe that increase in the military budget that the Democrats didn’t object to , was just a nice little back door way to fund a stainless steel razor wall? Like I said, I don’t know if Trump is a genius or a moron but.....

[iris lilies]

Williamsmith, I really appreciate your posts here. I can’t say that I think that Trump is a genius or moron although it’s probably a mix of both, and I will not be voting for him second time around most likely. But —
I have no words for the rest of it all.

[Teacher Terry]

Well most middle class people are going to owe money and people are pissed. They interviewed people in Iowa that usually get a refund and now owe up 4K. They are not happy campers and said they wouldn’t be voting for him again. Btw if your tool and dye maker friend moved to Milwaukee or another bigger city he would be making more money than most college graduates.

[Williamsmith]

Well most middle class people are going to owe money and people are pissed. They interviewed people in Iowa that usually get a refund and now owe up 4K. They are not happy campers and said they wouldn’t be voting for him again. Btw if your tool and dye maker friend moved to Milwaukee or another bigger city he would be making more money than most college graduates.

Moving might assist him financially but then he would never see his daughter.

[Rogar]

I don’t know if Trump is a genius or a moron but I do know thus far everything he has done has preserved or improved his chances of being re elected in 2020. Including the spat over the wall. He has done or is in the process of doing everything he promised to do and more. Which is exactly why he was elected in the first place and exactly why he will be re elected in 2020.

I can't see where T has done everything he promised. He couldn't repeal Obamacare, he's done nothing of importance for infrastructure, I'm uncertain about any net gain bringing manufacturing jobs back or bringing prescription drug prices down, he couldn't ban Muslims from entering the country, and Mexico is not paying for the wall. I don't doubt the possibility of him being re-elected, but it's like he said, he could shoot someone and he's still have his supporters. And people will vote with their wallets and at least as things look right now the economy is chugging along pretty well for most people and T gets at least a little credit for that.

I hope the dems can pull a worthy contender out of the crowd to make things interesting, but sometimes I get they feeling they don't have a clue.

[Alan]

I hope the dems can pull a worthy contender out of the crowd to make things interesting, but sometimes I get they feeling they don't have a clue.So far they're all concentrating on virtue signalling to the AOC crowd. I say let them.

[Teacher Terry]

WS, that makes sense. Too bad because those skills are rare and can be a huge money maker in the right place.

[frugal-one]

Just got back from taking a vacation to the Rio Grande area of TX. I asked MANY people who live there what they thought of the wall. Interestingly, only one person said they were in favor of the wall. He was an older Mexican gentleman. He was very quiet and did not want to elaborate. I thought this was interesting!

[Williamsmith]

How can anyone not be in favor of securing our border?

[Teacher Terry]

We are secure enough. Most people don’t sneak in. They overstay their visas.

[Williamsmith]

We are secure enough. Most people don’t sneak in. They overstay their visas.

What are we building a wall for? Just quit handing out visas. NOW....we will need a wall.

[Alan]

We are secure enough. Most people don’t sneak in. They overstay their visas.People keep saying that, although it's based upon a report that in 2017, 600,000 people overstayed their visas vs 300,000 people being apprehended at the border. What the report doesn't give us is the number of people who successfully made it across the border without being apprehended.

The same logic is used when people talk about drugs coming across the border, the claim that most drugs come through legal points of entry is based upon the amount of drugs discovered at points of entry vs the amount of drugs found on people crossing the border illegally. Do we have any idea how much we've missed at either location? Logic says a much higher percentage will be found at controlled inspection points rather than open border areas.

[frugal-one]

How can anyone not be in favor of securing our border?

There are more effective ways than building a fence.

[Teacher Terry]

We have technology and don’t need a wall

[pinkytoe]

I read that almost all of El Chapo's drug smuggling was done through legal ports of entry. Walls would not have stopped his drugs, thugs or runners.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Is now becoming the stupid dangerous wall.

https://www.azcentral.com/story/opinion/op-ed/laurieroberts/2019/02/07/forget-trumps-border-wall-what-his-concertina-wire-nogales/2806020002/Thank You, jp1, for posting this. This is the concertina wire I mentioned in a post on another thread. I have not been to Nogales since this concertina wire was installed but I know people in my neighborhood and also some people I know in Tucson who have seen it and photographed it and it's true, this is no exaggeration, concertina wire to this extent has indeed been installed. Honestly? Total overkill and a total slap in the face to Mexico. When I stop and think of all that Mexico has done for me over the years - need I enumerate yet again at this point? - I have a very hard time forgiving this. It's just so over the top and so unnecessary.

Technology already exists to apprehend illegal aliens as they try to cross and there truly is no crisis at the border. There are drugs that do get in - this much is true - so in this case I'd agree that there are issues that need to be addressed. But not a huge crisis ala European Refugees Circa 2015. Listen to the mayors of border cities such as El Paso and Nogales, Arizona, to get a handle on the real story.....and speak to people who actually live in the borderlands. You will find that most (but not 100%, I give the Conservatives that here and now) are against the damned wall. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

We have technology and don’t need a wallI could not agree more....why not use the 5 Billion USD to house homeless vets in tiny houses, and get them trained for some kind of work so that they can have the dignity of being housed and contributing to society once again? Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

How can anyone not be in favor of securing our border?Antagonizing Mexico unnecessarily potentially cuts off a huge safety valve for the many American citizens priced out of American health care and whose lives are not worth access to health care in the United States. We don't need a wall - technology already exists to apprehend illegal entrants. I would agree, however, that we need more resources to intercept narcotics as they smuggled across the border in produce trucks and other vehicles from Mexico. A wall will not stop this drug flow.....and in my mind, this is the main problem at the border, the huge amount of narcotics that escape detection and are successfully smuggled across the border. I would agree that this is indeed a major problem but I stop short at blaming Mexico for this problem - if we didn't have such a culture of winners and losers in the US, there would be no real need for drugs - at least not to today's level of usage in America. Were it not for our demand, Mexico would have no incentive to provide supply. But once again, this much is a problem, I'd agree with that, anyway. Rob

[jp1]

If we really want people to stop coming we need to incentivize good behavior by employers. Perhaps a law stating that any employer whose employees are found to be undocumented shall be required to sponsor them for work permits. Employers could then decide whether taking the risk was really worth it instead of the situation we have now where they turn a blind eye and then suffer no consequences when caught.

SO works in HR for a large well known hotel company. When they purchased a boutique hotel from a much smaller company and he was responsible for "rehiring" all the current employees into his company on the day the sale went through he had to fire half the kitchen staff because they didn't have the necessary papers to show that they could work here. The small company, with much less mainstream name recognition, wasn't worried about the PR problem that would've happened if it had made the news that they had so many undocumented workers. SO's much larger employer couldn't take that risk. If there had been ramifications for the smaller company they wouldn't have taken such a risk either.

[mschrisgo2]

If we really want people to stop coming we need to incentivize good behavior by employers. Perhaps a law stating that any employer whose employees are found to be undocumented shall be required to sponsor them for work permits. Employers could then decide whether taking the risk was really worth it instead of the situation we have now where they turn a blind eye and then suffer no consequences when caught.

This, right here, is the most sane, humane, solution I have heard in all of the discussions about "illegal immigrants." The hotel industry is a hugely dependent upon these people, and vice versa. Give them a way to make it legal.

[Williamsmith]

I think jp1 hit the nail on the head. What we don’t need is a “stupid wall”. We need a “smart” one. Which could include any number of technologies like, radar, drones, sensors, laser and high frequency noise deterrents. Usually there is an expensive start up cost for research and development but the southern border affords a unique opportunity to experiment on live subjects.......volunteers if you will ....apparently an endless supply of volunteers.

[JaneV2.0]

This, right here, is the most sane, humane, solution I have heard in all of the discussions about "illegal immigrants." The hotel industry is a hugely dependent upon these people, and vice versa. Give them a way to make it legal.

I've been preaching "work permits" for years, or some variation of same. The system as it stands makes fugitives of hard working people, and enriches employers like Trump.

[bae]

I've been preaching "work permits" for years, or some variation of same. The system as it stands makes fugitives of hard working people, and enriches employers like Trump.

How hard could it be to come up with a sane "guest worker" policy?

[Williamsmith]

Because by the time it cleared Congress it would be attached with a mandatory minimum wage of $20/hr for guest workers. As well as, four weeks vacation, bereavement leave for pets and pay disability pay for anyone unwilling to work.

[JaneV2.0]

How hard could it be to come up with a sane "guest worker" policy?

I'm no policy wonk, but it seems much cheaper and more effective than mass ICE roundups and baby jails. I guess Stephen Miller and his sadist contingent in the Trump administration salivate over the pain they're causing. I'm sure they loved the Khashoggi tapes. (Yeah, I know--hyperbole.)