View Full Version : Another shutdown - not sure whether to fly or not.
Hearing that some air employees will strike if there is another shutdown due to safety concerns. Since flying scares the bejeezus out of me anyway, now I am thinking we might have to reschedule our trip. I feel like this country needs to revolt against our politicians. This is ridiculous.
iris lilies
2-11-19, 9:38pm
Hearing that some air employees will strike if there is another shutdown due to safety concerns. Since flying scares the bejeezus out of me anyway, now I am thinking we might have to reschedule our trip. I feel like this country needs to revolt against our politicians. This is ridiculous.
You arent that far away from your destination. So, drive.
Teacher Terry
2-11-19, 9:53pm
I am worried too since we have to fly. I wonder if we would lose our cruise money because we didn’t book our airfare through the cruise line
There is supposed to be an agreement in breaking news just now. Hope that it helps both of you.
Teacher Terry
2-11-19, 10:13pm
Watching the news now
It does appear that an agreement has tentatively been reached. Considering how desperately both sides want to avoid a shutdown I'm not surprised. But Ann Coulter and Rush Limbaugh haven't weighed in yet, so who knows what will happen.
Regarding what will happen with air travel if a shutdown occurs, it's a crapshoot. During the last shutdown my friends, judging from posts on facebook, seemed to have very mixed experiences. Some airports had no issues. Others seemed to have bigger problems. Personally I flew twice during the shutdown, including on the day that it ended. My experience, at SFO earlier that week and at Long Beach the day the shutdown ended, was fine. But Long Beach never has long lines at security. With only 11 gates and not an insane amount of flights one security line is more than enough for them on a typical day. I had changed my flight that day to depart from Long Beach instead of LAX out of concern for lines but two friends happened to also be flying out of LAX that afternoon and both experienced no problems with security lines.
The Green New Deal will phase out air travel soon enough, maybe it's time to start weaning ourselves off it in preparation.
The Green New Deal will phase out air travel soon enough, maybe it's time to start weaning ourselves off it in preparation.
Good point, although the plan is not that we should all stay home, it's that we should have high speed rail to replace a lot of trips that currently happen on planes. Personally I'd much rather take a fast train from san francisco to LA than a plane. Back when I lived in NYC I had to go to Boston and DC for work several times a year. Some coworkers thought it odd that I would take the train, but time-wise and cost-wise it made sense.
Williamsmith
2-11-19, 11:29pm
Wouldnt it make more sense to just ban commuting for employment more than say ten miles in one direction given that the planet is in crisis mode from carbon emissions. And a complete ban on travel for vacationing and leisure must be a common sense action that you would embrace. All jet airliners shuttered, power plants shutdown, and moo cows slaughtered could bring us back from the brink. No? Don’t you have the least bit of guilt for jetting around endlessly and ruining the climate for me?
Teacher Terry
2-11-19, 11:29pm
We took high speed trains in Europe 14 years ago and they were awesome
Williamsmith
2-11-19, 11:33pm
We took high speed trains in Europe 14 years ago and they were awesome
The cost of building a high speed rail from NYC to LA is estimated to cost about 48 Billion. I guess my question is, why do you have to go so fast? I mean isn’t the health of the planet worth slowing down for?
And I hate to be a downer but high speed trains would only be an improvement if they were fueled by renewable resources. And, this will hurt even more......you can’t get to Europe by train. You will have to take a really slow boat. No airplanes, sorry.
Teacher Terry
2-11-19, 11:59pm
Each European country is small like a state so it makes sense for close countries or neighboring countries.
How are these high speed trains going to do serving the non-coastal parts of the county?
The USA is sort of big, and some folks don't live in megacities lined up along the coast. I wouldn't mind still being able to fly to the Midwest now-and-then to visit relatives.
Tax breaks should be offered to companies that let employees work from home. The money could come from taking away subsidies to the fossil fuel industry.
The cost of building a high speed rail from NYC to LA is estimated to cost about 48 Billion. I guess my question is, why do you have to go so fast? I mean isn’t the health of the planet worth slowing down for?
And I hate to be a downer but high speed trains would only be an improvement if they were fueled by renewable resources. And, this will hurt even more......you can’t get to Europe by train. You will have to take a really slow boat. No airplanes, sorry.
Perspective. And you too bae...
https://www.vox.com/2019/2/8/18215774/green-new-deal-high-speed-train-air-travel
ApatheticNoMore
2-12-19, 3:14am
I take slow rail over flying at least if just going hey to San Francisco (believe me I've done it - it's slow rail and then a bus). I do worry about how fast rail will use more energy than slow rail.
I'm not in a hurry, yes it's worth it to change some habits (and why wouldn't it be, no we can't all change all our habits perhaps, but many of them if we dig down deep enough, and why not?). I don't need to be lectured on not flying, I haven't flown in about a decade, might I fly once or twice more in my life, oh sure it in certain circumstances, but as a general habit. No.
BTW if the concern is trains not going places one really should pay attention to the history of Amtrak. They have had to shut down a lot of train routes over time. Government spending decisions. Yea pretty stupid this happened.
Passenger rail in this country is very poor. You pull over and sit and wait literally hours for all the freight trains to go through. It is 7 hours to NYC where I live vs 4 driving. And it's not cheap. You can pay the outrageous Manhattan parking rates and still come out ahead if two or more people are traveling together for a day trip. The train only goes once per day certain days of the week.
Wouldnt it make more sense to just ban commuting for employment more than say ten miles in one direction given that the planet is in crisis mode from carbon emissions. And a complete ban on travel for vacationing and leisure must be a common sense action that you would embrace. All jet airliners shuttered, power plants shutdown, and moo cows slaughtered could bring us back from the brink. No? Don’t you have the least bit of guilt for jetting around endlessly and ruining the climate for me?
I work in surgery. Cannot telecommute for that.
Fly. We cannot put a hold on life because idiots will not negotiate. You could be waiting forever more...........
Williamsmith
2-12-19, 6:15am
I am astounded by all these comments. I expect that people who are so dogmatic about the threat of climate change....would be willing to give up their activities that accelerate this impending catastrophe. Well, then government will have to step in and help you give them up.
I work in surgery. Cannot telecommute for that.
Not yet. But it’s only a matter of time.
To see my new grand-twins 800 miles away, I can fly, drive, or take the Greyhound. I would much prefer to get on a slow train but there isn't one available. Driving through Texas is grueling...
iris lilies
2-12-19, 11:41am
To see my new grand-twins 800 miles away, I can fly, drive, or take the Greyhound. I would much prefer to get on a slow train but there isn't one available. Driving through Texas is grueling...
Ugh, 16 hours of driving is no fun. After our recent sojurn to the desert southwest, I set my limit to 12 hours.
Teacher Terry
2-12-19, 11:44am
Last summer we drove 4K but it was split up over a month
gimmethesimplelife
2-12-19, 12:09pm
I have been working, working, working lately....this is my high season and for whatever reason I don't fully comprehend, I'm liked where I work and further seemingly at least slightly respected, plus I have made it crystal clear I'm happy taking every shift I can while OT is available, so I have been busy. And not keeping up with things as much as I would like. But I am worried - as I've stated before, many of my neighbors in the 85006 work at the Phoenix airport, so what happens in regards to air travel/safety of said air travel is a big deal where I live. Though to be fair you could drive two miles north of me to a higher income neighborhood where issues with air safety don't impact economic survival but rather are more along the lines of risk due to air traffic controllers being stretched too thin/TSA not being paid and not having any incentive to catch dangerous contraband being attempted to be brought on board a flight.
I have heard there is a potential agreement but it is much less than Trump's requested 5.7 billion dollars and is more along the lines of fortifying what's already there vs. building a 2,000 miles plus long wall structure. My guess is that The Thug Of Orange Desperately Needing A Crash Course in Manners And Diplomacy won't sign whatever is headed to his desk under these conditions. I dread this as it means so much upheaval to so many people and so much collateral damage, all of which is unnecessary.
I do have some good news on this topic to report, however. Given that Nogales, Arizona, seems to be the poster border community for concertina wire, with the US Side of the steel wall cutting across Ambos Nogales (means both Nogaleses, and it's used frequently on both sides of Nogales) COMPLETELY covered by six rows of concertina wire.....get this, however. The City of Nogales, Arizona has requested that the wire be removed. If not, the city of Nogales will sue. I'm so proud of Nogales, I really am. There's a part of me that dislikes myself as I'm not there to protest the concertina wire - what kind of human being am I living only 2.5 hours away, knowing what I do about America and not being present to protest? I do harbor guilt over this but I also realize that this OT will only be here for another eight weeks.....and this border issue is not going away Plenty of protests will take place in the future so I'm taking solace in that. Rob
Perspective. And you too bae...
https://www.vox.com/2019/2/8/18215774/green-new-deal-high-speed-train-air-travel
I've travelled by rail a lot, in Europe. It's great.
The US is however quite large compared to European nations, and if you look at the network node-graph required to connect "the flyover country" in the US, it is quite a different problem than high-speed rail in Korea, say....
Teacher Terry
2-12-19, 12:42pm
Rob, the orange moron needs a win so I think he will sign it and then lie like he always does.
iris lilies
2-12-19, 12:45pm
I am astounded by all these comments. I expect that people who are so dogmatic about the threat of climate change....would be willing to give up their activities that accelerate this impending catastrophe. Well, then government will have to step in and help you give them up.
There are actually people on this website who have given up air travel for the environment, and I admire them for that. But granted, that is not the majority.
Teacher Terry
2-12-19, 12:47pm
I didn’t know that IL.
iris lilies
2-12-19, 12:49pm
I didn’t know that IL. I cant remember who it was. Perhaps that person will step forward, dont be shy! Blow your own horn.
Perspective. And you too bae...
https://www.vox.com/2019/2/8/18215774/green-new-deal-high-speed-train-air-travel
Nice article, and nice analysis of the carbon costs of each mode of transportation.
I agree that high-speed rail would have to be rolled out in a way that makes sense. I use Amtrak whenever I can. Being in the Northeast Corridor, I prefer Amtrak to air travel if I'm going from NJ to Boston or NJ to DC. There have to be other point-to-point options that would make sense for high speed rail.
But I think air travel is here to stay. Not sure how to address the environmental impact of that fact, really, unless someone comes up with some way to keep planes in the air with renewable resources. Not sure about who here has given up air travel, but I've read that environmentalist/actor Ed Begley Jr refuses to travel in planes.
I do feel guilty about the amount of air travel I've done. I've flown 1M+ miles over the past 20 years. These days I'm not flying as much, but if someone asks me to go to the West Coast for research before I'm ready to retire, I will fly, no doubt.
In terms of the New Green Deal, I think developing better rail infrastructure is a good idea, but I don't think it will ever remotely negate the need for air travel.
Williamsmith
2-12-19, 1:34pm
Nice article, and nice analysis of the carbon costs of each mode of transportation.
I agree that high-speed rail would have to be rolled out in a way that makes sense. I use Amtrak whenever I can. Being in the Northeast Corridor, I prefer Amtrak to air travel if I'm going from NJ to Boston or NJ to DC. There have to be other point-to-point options that would make sense for high speed rail.
But I think air travel is here to stay. Not sure how to address the environmental impact of that fact, really, unless someone comes up with some way to keep planes in the air with renewable resources. Not sure about who here has given up air travel, but I've read that environmentalist/actor Ed Begley Jr refuses to travel in planes.
I do feel guilty about the amount of air travel I've done. I've flown 1M+ miles over the past 20 years. These days I'm not flying as much, but if someone asks me to go to the West Coast for research before I'm ready to retire, I will fly, no doubt.
In terms of the New Green Deal, I think developing better rail infrastructure is a good idea, but I don't think it will ever remotely negate the need for air travel.
Well, based on your air travel history compared to my handfull of air trips I’ve made in my life....it would appear that I have unintentionally been a better steward of this planet than frequent flyers. Given that air travel accounts for an ever growing per cent age of carbon emissions....air travel has doubled since 1985. Add to it cargo transportation for online purchasing. Add the influence of the Chinese and Indian economies. We can reduce carbon emission from all other sources and air transportation will more than adequately nullify any of those gains.
The obvious future for “consumers” and jet setters and jet reliant vocations is that people like Ocasio-Cortez-Cortez will be notifying you that you have a carbon creation limit. No more frequent flying. Take a bicycle trip.
Williamsmith
2-12-19, 2:02pm
I have been working, working, working lately....this is my high season and for whatever reason I don't fully comprehend, I'm liked where I work and further seemingly at least slightly respected, plus I have made it crystal clear I'm happy taking every shift I can while OT is available, so I have been busy. And not keeping up with things as much as I would like. But I am worried - as I've stated before, many of my neighbors in the 85006 work at the Phoenix airport, so what happens in regards to air travel/safety of said air travel is a big deal where I live. Though to be fair you could drive two miles north of me to a higher income neighborhood where issues with air safety don't impact economic survival but rather are more along the lines of risk due to air traffic controllers being stretched too thin/TSA not being paid and not having any incentive to catch dangerous contraband being attempted to be brought on board a flight.
I have heard there is a potential agreement but it is much less than Trump's requested 5.7 billion dollars and is more along the lines of fortifying what's already there vs. building a 2,000 miles plus long wall structure. My guess is that The Thug Of Orange Desperately Needing A Crash Course in Manners And Diplomacy won't sign whatever is headed to his desk under these conditions. I dread this as it means so much upheaval to so many people and so much collateral damage, all of which is unnecessary.
I do have some good news on this topic to report, however. Given that Nogales, Arizona, seems to be the poster border community for concertina wire, with the US Side of the steel wall cutting across Ambos Nogales (means both Nogaleses, and it's used frequently on both sides of Nogales) COMPLETELY covered by six rows of concertina wire.....get this, however. The City of Nogales, Arizona has requested that the wire be removed. If not, the city of Nogales will sue. I'm so proud of Nogales, I really am. There's a part of me that dislikes myself as I'm not there to protest the concertina wire - what kind of human being am I living on 2.5 hours away, knowing what I do about America and not being present to protest? I do harbor guilt over this but I also realize that this OT will only be here for another eight weeks.....and this border issue is not going away Plenty of protests will take place in the future so I'm taking solace in that. Rob
Rob, you should recruit some of your likeminded folks in the 85006 and travel to Mexico. Spread the news about how awful a country we have here. Maybe if you tell some of those war stories about all The injustices then maybe the 51% of illegals who’s country of origin is Mexico will stop violating our immigration laws to get into such a horrible country. Why in the hell do they want to come here in the first place?
Teacher Terry
2-12-19, 2:23pm
We probably fly once a year. Air travel is not going to be limited in the future.
I foresee solar-powered and solar-assisted aircraft; they're in the works already. I fervently hope the last gasp of fossil fuels is just around the corner.
ToomuchStuff
2-12-19, 3:26pm
Wouldnt it make more sense to just ban commuting for employment more than say ten miles in one direction given that the planet is in crisis mode from carbon emissions. And a complete ban on travel for vacationing and leisure must be a common sense action that you would embrace. All jet airliners shuttered, power plants shutdown, and moo cows slaughtered could bring us back from the brink. No? Don’t you have the least bit of guilt for jetting around endlessly and ruining the climate for me?
Eat more beef from cattle that had their laryxn removed. (no moo cows)
I work in surgery. Cannot telecommute for that.
Robotic arms and the internet.
Rob, the orange moron needs a win so I think he will sign it and then lie like he always does.
Or he veto's it, the congress overrides him and then he says that he tried to fulfill his campaign promise.
Teacher Terry
2-12-19, 4:26pm
If you stop to think about what surgery actually involves the idea that you can telecommute is ridiculous.
Williamsmith
2-12-19, 4:33pm
I foresee solar-powered and solar-assisted aircraft; they're in the works already. I fervently hope the last gasp of fossil fuels is just around the corner.
The internal combustion engine is the second greatest invention ever.......second only to the wheel.
I believe in anyone’s right to stop using fossil fuel. Just don’t force it on me.
There’s certainly precedent in US history of requiring sacrafice. During WWII for instance many goods were rationed so they could ve used in the war effort. I remember my father telling me that he had to get a special dispensation to be able to purchase bicycle tires. He was a paperboy so it was granted.
Williamsmith
2-12-19, 4:48pm
There’s certainly precedent in US history of requiring sacrafice. During WWII for instance many goods were rationed so they could ve used in the war effort. I remember my father telling me that he had to get a special dispensation to be able to purchase bicycle tires. He was a paperboy so it was granted.
Yes, all that War propaganda had to get to the houses. Better get that kid some tires.
I’ll stop flying when the politicians do. Until then I fly at least twice a month, sometimes just for fun. Actually most of my trips are for fun, I’m retired.
Here’s a pic of my little bug smasher.
Here’s a pic of my little bug smasher.
Not bad for a nearly 60 year old plane.
It's so cute--love the color scheme.
If you stop to think about what surgery actually involves the idea that you can telecommute is ridiculous.
This ridiculous guy does it:
http://www.bbc.com/future/story/20140516-i-operate-on-people-400km-away
I work in surgery. Cannot telecommute for that.
Depending on your age it may not happen before you retire. And if you are a nurse, as opposed to tge surgeon it will probably take even longer before it happens. But remote medical work is definitely a thing. One of my insureds is a company that developed technology to transfer medical images (ultrasounds, exrays, etc) over the internet. They have a staff of doctors in India who perform diagnoses. The company’s customers are assorted US hospitals.
And we already have robotic surgeons--which conjures up all kinds of gruesome images...
I cant remember who it was. Perhaps that person will step forward, dont be shy! Blow your own horn.
I am one.
Not bad for a nearly 60 year old plane.
It’s younger than I am.
It had new paint, interior, and engine done a few years ago. It’s going to get some new avionics this year.
gimmethesimplelife
2-12-19, 10:31pm
Rob, the orange moron needs a win so I think he will sign it and then lie like he always does.At least if The Orange Moron signs it, there won't be collateral damage afresh. I don't care if he lies, I just care about aviation safety and the economic security of those for whom Trump could care less - in this case, Federal Employees. And I love how you referred to Trump here, TT. Rob
Williamsmith
2-13-19, 3:26pm
You can’t say we aren’t making progress. A bit more than a century and a half ago we would have just had black slaves build a wall for us at no cost. Politics seemed simpler back then. If you disagreed you just took up arms.
You can’t say we aren’t making progress. A bit more than a century and a half ago we would have just had black slaves build a wall for us at no cost. Politics seemed simpler back then. If you disagreed you just took up arms.
A bit more than a century and a half ago, a wall would have impeded our invasion of Mexico.
flowerseverywhere
2-13-19, 5:19pm
Some politician was saying planes could run on biodeisel. But of course it takes energy to make the biodesiel fuel.
I will I’ll say I have seen a lot of prices rising in stores. If we all,bought less stuff that was trucked, flown or shipped around the world, plus the energy used in manufacturing, energy use would decrease. Plus less stuff for landfills.
Williamsmith
2-13-19, 7:22pm
I know you are being sarcastic of late but seriously, you need to think about what you write here. Why are you talking about an "us" that enslaves black people? My us includes the people you are talking about in this manner. I am not cool with this, sarcasm or not.
I apologize for having tangentially offended you. Even though my context was clearly historical and clearly not directed at you. Ill join the ranks of properly chastised and enjoy a voluntary exile.
Ill join the ranks of properly chastised …....
Welcome to the club, all the cool kids end up here eventually. :welcome:
Not sure who's right here but it's interesting that depending on the context some people get offended at being accused of being responsible for the actions of their ancestral dead white relatives who most likely weren't even slave owners but then casually toss out the idea that "black slaves would've done the job" seemingly acknowledging that even non-slave-owners benefited from slavery by virtue of being white. And in another thread bae points out that it's very easy to slip into the role of "rent collector" when one views oneself as part of the masses oppressed by capitalism.
Perhaps most people are just masses of contradictions.
Williamsmith, I actually deleted my comment prior to your posting, as I had no desire to make you feel bad. So I don't know why you posted a reply to a comment that I took off for the sake of keeping peace. If you want to be voluntarily exiled, that is on you, not me. My point was your use of the word "us" to define an America that excluded black people.
"We" are all of us; "we" is not white people. That is what I was trying to say.
Okay, due to Alan and Catherine's assessment of my post to Williamsmith, I am formally apologizing to Williamsmith. I was wrong to say anything in response to your posts, which as you point out, was made in jest, in a historical context, and I chose to find it offensive to my friends and family members.
Please do not voluntarily exile yourself from this community, as you mean a great deal to it.
My original post seems to have violated the community terms of discourse. I removed it ten minutes after I wrote it for fear that I would hurt you or make you uncomfortable.
Please return, Williamsmith, as you mean too much to this community to absent yourself.
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