View Full Version : Which doc to see first??
Maybe I've asked this question before. Pardon my horrible brain these days.
I think I was born with some genetic disorder.......but since I'm 69, I guess it wasn't immediately fatal, for which I'm grateful........but I have suffered physically (and mentally), way too much in my long life.
Fibromyalgia is the kind of "syndrome" that can send you to doc after doc after doc, just trying to figure out what the hell is going on. I've been on way too many wild goose chases, had way too many tests, radiation, etc.
But here I am today, in more pain than ever. I also have osteoarthritis in every joint. I don't use meds much, since my system is so funky and they cause more problems than they are worth.
Another problem is that I don't trust many docs, and I have what you might call a phobia about going to them, especially now that I'm older.
Here's my present dilemma........I want to figure out which kind of doc to see first, that might rule out or deal with some other problems. (The footbone's connected to the kneebone; the kneebone's connected to the hipbone, etc.,) Docs these days know shit about the body as a whole or what connection their specialty might have to the rest of the body.
Anyhow.......I have bone-on-bone knees, bad feet, severely aching thighs, muscle spasms all over, bent fingers (osteoarthritis), TMJ, etc. And the last few weeks I've started having constant mid-back-to-the-side pain (and now an eye that won't stop tearing....but that's low down on my list of pains).
So........it seems to me that I might have a lower spine problem, even though an MRI several months ago was fairly normal (for an old fart).
My one leg is shorter than the other. (Hahaha......I'm laughing to myself here, from this image I have just painted of myself). Yes, I look like either Quasimodo or Grandpappy Amos when I walk.
My possible choices for who to see first are: Podiatrist, knee doc, hip doc, spine doc, sports medicine doc (who might be slightly more likely to consider other parts, in addition to his "specialty" within sports medicine. He/she may also be more likely to encourage physical therapy.) Then there's some other types to maybe see (chiro, acupuncture, etc.)
I'm just trying to get some varied opinions about which thing to approach first. Whatever "specialty" I go to first, will no doubt order MRIs, surgeries, injections, etc., etc., ........without much thought for the neighboring joints, so I want to proceed with caution.
Then there's the problem of my fears/phobias to see anyone. I'm feeling like quite a loser these days. :(
catherine
2-12-19, 11:00am
Cathy, I hear ya. My DH is undergoing several medical issues this winter. What I've learned is just what you've alluded to. Doctors are so specialized that it seems almost impossible for them to get the whole picture. I keep telling DH we need an air traffic controller. When talking to all these doctors I'm reminded of the Three Blind Men and the Elephant (https://www.allaboutphilosophy.org/blind-men-and-the-elephant.htm) parable.
Maybe try what Jane suggested to me in a recent post and see an osteopath, or, as you mentioned, a sports guy. DH did get MRIs and relief for his back pain from his sports/pain management specialist and he's actually now on the list for medical marijuana (hooray!). BUT this guy had no clue about the internal medicine issues--so clueless I was amazed and continue to be amazed that he couldn't connect some dots.
"Docs these days know shit about the body as a whole or what connection their specialty might have to the rest of the body."
As my stroke-affected relative said after the standard unhelpful non-answer from their doctor "That's why people depend on Dr. Google these days." Their attempts to find one who had an interest/specialty in stroke turned up absolutely nothing.
With osteoarthritis, stroke-induced neuropathy, and profound depression, they have recently found some relief with Lyrica; I hope the relief persists and the side effects, if any, are manageable. They also get a lot of relief from various forms of cannabis, which is mercifully legal on this coast.
I'm sure there are smart, dedicated doctors out there, but most of them are just hacks--drug dispensers going through the motions, as our execrable system demands. Finding the gem among the dross is just too much to expect from old, tired, sick people. Unless your problem can be fixed mechanically, you're probably out of luck. Have you read Undoctored? A lot of wisdom there.
My mom, the pharmacist, always told me to start with an internal medicine doc. So when I had an issue last summer, that is what I started with. He immediately sent me to a specialist who didn't even feel or look at the the area for diagnosis but instead ordered a bunch of tests. In the end, the conclusion was n-a-d-a. The ONLY medical professional I ever had a positive result from was a highly recommended physical therapist. If you've already had a lot of diagnostics, then it is unlikely that further testing or imaging will help. Personally, I would try the sports medicine doc. You may have a fascia/muscular issue.
To sum up: you are paying a fortune for little or no help.
I'd try the chiropractor first. It's non invasive, they seem to be more holistic thinking. Find one that isn't a money churner....requiring a contract. The first one I went to was like that..I refused after the "free" analysis that required me to watch a video of how to get treatment. But my sister recommended one she goes to and he is magnificent. He required xrays of my back, neck and hips before working on me. He's been such a help- feet, thumbs, neck, shoulders, back and knees all feeling much better.
Cathy, just a quick thought--you never had polio, did you? I was just reading to see if it was possible to be exposed and not know it until later, to have had such a mild case?
Thanks everyone. I do see an Internal Med doc. I like him a lot, but it always feels like he puts all my problems into the "fibromyalgia" basket. He has recommended gabepentin, which I tried for several weeks for my peripheral neuropathy, and stopped it after 3 weeks for the side effects. When you feel like crap when you start a drug, and then feel worse, it's almost impossible to keep on taking it. He also recommended Cymbalta, which I filled, but never took. For some reason, I'm frightened by unusual sensations. My neuro system is just tweaked too high. I guess those drugs are for that type of person, but I guess my fears win out........especially when I hear from so many about the hell it is to ever come off them. Anyhow.....back to my Internal med doc. He is soooo bright and knows so much, but he just doesn't seem to guide me as much as I'd like. Maybe he knows I'm stubborn and has given up, I just don't know. We do have good visits though.......but I want more.
All my labs that DH has drawn and run are always normal........which is pretty common with fibro.
Tybee....that's an interesting thought.....polio, but as a child, if anything, I got overdosed on the vaccines. I've had the shots, and the oral stuff. Funny, they took my brother to a special hospital once, thinking he had polio, but he didn't.
During perimenopause, when my kids were young, I had a horrible time with my legs. Whenever I would sit down for any length of time, it would be excrutiatingly painful to get up. It was like rigor mortis had set in. It went on for years.........then completely went away for a couple years. Now it's back. DH is a doc, but he's not very aggressive with helping me figure this out, unfortunately. Maybe this is just osteoarthritis and fibromyalgia together, which can happen and it's extra bad.
I had a horrible childhood, so who knows how that affects our bodies.
I got tested for Lyme a number of years ago and it came back normal.
Some day they'll probably figure these problems out and cure them, but I'll be gone by then.
And like I said......the other big problem is my fear/dislike of going to docs. Not sure how to get over that. I would love it if DH got more involved, but alas, that probably isn't going to happen.
As far as an osteopath......I went to an osteo GYN, and she was no different than the others. I also went to a holistic doc once, who did some voodoo over me. So.....I think the good ones are out there .....somewhere, maybe just not around here.
frugal-one
2-12-19, 8:49pm
Have you ever considered seeing a doctor who practices functional medicine? They look at the whole person. It might be something to look into! https://www.wholepersonhealth.com/services/functional-medicine/
You have known for quite some time you need knee replacements. Ignoring those can create most of the other issues with your hips and back. And likely are responsible for the leg length differential. don't let them get any worse because the worse they are, the harder it is for us to get you a good result.
You have known for quite some time you need knee replacements. Ignoring those can create most of the other issues with your hips and back. And likely are responsible for the leg length differential. don't let them get any worse because the worse they are, the harder it is for us to get you a good result.
+1
Gardnr......I choose not to get a knee replacement for philosophical reasons. If that's all I ever had wrong, I would be able to explain lots of other issues, but there have always been other issues, even when my knees were "good".
Hopefully, in just a few years there will be more options, in terms of knee repair.
I choose not to get a knee replacement for philosophical reasons.
Huh? I'm hearing you want doctors to do MORE, but then when they recommend things for you, you just ignore them. (not taking Cymbalta for example). What exactly do you expect any doctor to DO? You're in pain, but don't follow doctor recommendations. How do you expect to be any better?
Cathy, what are your philosophical reasons not to get the knee replacement surgery?
My husband feels strongly about not getting hip replacement, and I think it is philosophical, so i am just wondering what your thinking is about not getting replacements.
A functional doctor would look for underlying issues, like food sensitivities or deficiencies. I remember you felt better when you avoided gluten or carbs--maybe you could try an elimination diet to pinpoint the culprit. Anecdotal reports abound of people turning their health around with dietary changes.
I may have some kind of surgery some day (oh, which joint to choose!), but it's my impression that hospitals are places you go to die--or get staph, MERSA, crappy food, and no sleep.
Huh? I'm hearing you want doctors to do MORE, but then when they recommend things for you, you just ignore them. (not taking Cymbalta for example). What exactly do you expect any doctor to DO? You're in pain, but don't follow doctor recommendations. How do you expect to be any better?
Herbgeek....do you do everything a doctor suggests? I listen to them, talk to them, then think about it and research it. But mostly....I know how my body reacts to certain things, and I'm not going to keep trying things that I've had trouble with.
I do some of the things a doctor might suggest......but not all of them. I am on a couple meds, but have to have very low doses of them, or they cause problems. I have given certain other meds a try, and I'm sure as hell not going to keep taking a drug that has very unpleasant side-effects. And mostly......they can be even worse to try to ever get off of.
I am looking for a much more holistic approach, but they are not around here. Doctors are over-worked and they've lost their empathy. They turn to surgery, meds, etc., as a first choice. I've seen supposedly great docs and they've made mistakes, and/or have given up on their clinical judgement, before ordering every test in the book......or every procedure.
I guess you could say I keep hoping the doctors will do less........less of the defaults (surgery/drugs/procedures), and more of alternative possibilities. Medicine changes almost monthly, and there's always new treatments that the docs may have heard of.
My internal medicine doc has started bringing up more alternative stuff, which I think is great. And when I had GI problems, NO doctors....even the GI doc EVER asked about my diet. WTF?? And when I would bring up nutrition-related questions.......they would minimize that they cause problems.
As far as a knee replacement.......not everyone is glad they have it done. It's a violent, extremely complicated procedure, and I would rather just deal with my own broken-down knee, than problems with a replacement. Have you ever watched the surgery on video?
I will talk about my "philosophical" feelings on Tybee's post.
Cathy, what are your philosophical reasons not to get the knee replacement surgery?
My husband feels strongly about not getting hip replacement, and I think it is philosophical, so i am just wondering what your thinking is about not getting replacements.
Hi Tybee. I feel that this country refuses to deal with growing old or having any pain and we've all come to think that it's unnatural. No wonder we have people who can't afford health care. Everybody wants and gets every joint replaced, every wrinkle removed, etc., etc. Any pain at all is unacceptable. And unfortunately, there's so many drugs out there to help eliminate the pain, but cause even more problems. There are always people who develop new equipment, new tests, new surgeries, and this country is rich enough to get them all up and running.........but there are too many people who expect to have all that done to them. I'm not very good at expressing myself. I'm just very sad and frustrated how incredibly complicated and un-simple medicine has become. And it's really sad that it's so hard to find a doc who is reasonable, and in touch with less-complicated and more natural ways of dealing with human pain and suffering. And they're so busy, they don't have time to spend with the patients, and have even less empathy. It's all a big business. I think I could tolerate some of my defective parts more, if I just felt some compassion somewhere. But I do think this country is spinning out of control with replacements, transplants, etc., etc.
A functional doctor would look for underlying issues, like food sensitivities or deficiencies. I remember you felt better when you avoided gluten or carbs--maybe you could try an elimination diet to pinpoint the culprit. Anecdotal reports abound of people turning their health around with dietary changes.
I may have some kind of surgery some day (oh, which joint to choose!), but it's my impression that hospitals are places you go to die--or get staph, MERSA, crappy food, and no sleep.
Jane....my DS got me an audio book by a Dr. Greger...."How not to die". So far, it's pretty good. He talks about how the medical profession treats the end result of unhealthy eating, but never is concerned with how we got to that point. That's very true........like I mentioned earlier, even when I've had G.I. problems, the gastroenterologists have NEVER mentioned diet. How can that be??
I do believe that I eat pretty healthily......tons of veggies, fruits, and I've cut down a lot on carbs/red meat. But as far as my joints go, I think the damage is done. I think that's mostly genetic, and I've been overweight. But even when I was young and not overweight, I began to have joint and muscle problems. So even though I eat healthily for the most part, I'm feeling like it's most likely genetic. I have always worked physically hard most of my life, and probably wore out a little early because of that.
Hi Tybee. I feel that this country refuses to deal with growing old or having any pain and we've all come to think that it's unnatural. No wonder we have people who can't afford health care. Everybody wants and gets every joint replaced, every wrinkle removed, etc., etc. Any pain at all is unacceptable. And unfortunately, there's so many drugs out there to help eliminate the pain, but cause even more problems. There are always people who develop new equipment, new tests, new surgeries, and this country is rich enough to get them all up and running.........but there are too many people who expect to have all that done to them. I'm not very good at expressing myself. I'm just very sad and frustrated how incredibly complicated and un-simple medicine has become. And it's really sad that it's so hard to find a doc who is reasonable, and in touch with less-complicated and more natural ways of dealing with human pain and suffering. And they're so busy, they don't have time to spend with the patients, and have even less empathy. It's all a big business. I think I could tolerate some of my defective parts more, if I just felt some compassion somewhere. But I do think this country is spinning out of control with replacements, transplants, etc., etc.
I think I get where you are coming from. It's a more holistic approach. See dr. Weil--and check out his website because I think you can look for folks trained by him in your area.
I knew a man who was in his late 60's early 70's who needed a lung transplant. He got himself to Mayo and bought his way to top of list and got the lung of an 18 year old who died in a car crash. that bothered me, on a philosophical level. A lot.
ETA: just to be clear, I'm 62, an if I need a lung transplant, I not going to take one from a young person, as I have had a fairly long life an gotten to do all kinds of things like be a mother and and grandmother and grow some wonderful gardens an spend time with folks an animals I love. Give it to the young one who needs it. that's my philosophical reasoning.
thanks for sharing yours here.
Jane....my DS got me an audio book by a Dr. Greger...."How not to die". So far, it's pretty good. He talks about how the medical profession treats the end result of unhealthy eating, but never is concerned with how we got to that point. That's very true........like I mentioned earlier, even when I've had G.I. problems, the gastroenterologists have NEVER mentioned diet. How can that be??
I do believe that I eat pretty healthily......tons of veggies, fruits, and I've cut down a lot on carbs/red meat. But as far as my joints go, I think the damage is done. I think that's mostly genetic, and I've been overweight. But even when I was young and not overweight, I began to have joint and muscle problems. So even though I eat healthily for the most part, I'm feeling like it's most likely genetic. I have always worked physically hard most of my life, and probably wore out a little early because of that.
I've done a surprising amount of physical work for an Arts and Letters major, too. :~)
All in all, I'd rather have bad joints than many other complaints that older people have. As someone famous once said "Old age is not for sissies."
Teacher Terry
2-13-19, 4:19pm
Tybee I agree about preferring transplants to go to young people., A friend of mine had a heart transplant at 56 but was in superior physical health and so recovered well and is very active again. My husband just had a MRI to see if he can get a knee replacement. Walking and hiking are his favorite activities.
Cathy- is this something that might fit your needs? https://www.naturopathic.org/content.asp?contentid=60
They seem to focus on some items you've mentioned that are wanting in the doctors you've already seen- such as addressing the whole person, and using more "natural" approaches before moving on to pharmaceuticals.
I read a thought-provoking book not long ago called Radical Remission, by Kelly A Turner. On the face of it, it's a book about cancer, but I found the personal anecdotes fascinating. It reminded me of Bernie Siegel's books, dealing as it does with the transformative powers we all have within us. In a way, it also relates to Michael Pollan's How to Change Your Mind, (a psychedelic odyssey), in that it illustrates the wondrous work human minds can produce under the right circumstances.
And, in other news...I had got in the habit of starting my day with a couple of analgesics (aspirin or ibuprofen, sometimes even acetaminophen) washed down with an oversized, tricked out jar of iced coffee. But lately, I've been skipping the analgesics (they really didn't do much anyway.) I'm pretty chuffed about that, as they are the only drugs I take. I won't rule out taking them occasionally, and I keep planning on experimenting with CBD/HTC for symptom relief as needed, but I'm happy not to be drug-dependent at this stage of my life. :cool:
Dr. Greger and the whole foods plant based way of eating is exactly the food plan I'm following. I personally noticed a significant reduction in inflammation - to include less sinus issues. For what may be the first time in my life, I sleep with my mouth closed! I can breathe!
My husband has a heart arrhythmia and his cardiologist recommended exploring WFPB eating. Unfortunately my hubby is not open to giving up meat or dairy. His nutritional knowledge is limited, but he buys into the standard American meat and potatoes diet.
If you want to check this out further I recommend What the Health and Forks Over Knives - both available in Netflix.I
I think our gut controls our health in ways we are just now exploring. I also think we have diverted into a world of processing things so much that they are no longer identifiable to our bodies as food. When we can consume foods in their most natural state, the nutritional benefits are huge.
I was biting through my lip when Dr. Greger was mentioned--he used to pen glowing reviews of his own writing under the pseudonym Sam Iyyam or some variation thereof. Of course, I'm in no way a vegan, so that colors my views. You can't go too far wrong eating whole foods and observing which ones make you feel better. Or worse.
Your husband might find The Magic Pill or That Sugar Film or (Dr.Jay Wortman's) My Big Fat Diet or Fat Head more relevant. I found The Magic Pill very watchable. My favorite of these might be My Big Fat Diet, in which Dr. Wortman did a study of Canada's Metis First Nations people and had them follow a diet similar to their ancestral one, with near universal success. It was a definite feel-good film. I liked it so well, I bought a copy.
You continue to refuse known and well-documented treatment for problems. The fact that you refuse and prefer the suffering never ceases to amaze me.
So Cathy - have you considered to just stop the doctors visits? If you disagree with their plans, and you take very few meds - why go? You might be happier just giving it up and enjoying life.
Teacher Terry
2-14-19, 12:43am
My aunt is sorry she didn’t do a knee replacement at 60. She is now 94 and uses a walker. She told us not to make the same mistake.
My aunt is sorry she didn’t do a knee replacement at 60. She is now 94 and uses a walker. She told us not to make the same mistake.
Great advice! Walking bone on bone grinds it down and it just gets worse with time. I waited 3y after my injury and was sorry. I'm thrilled with my result. I felt better day after surgery than the day before. It was incredulous to me how little pain I had compared to what pain level I expected. No narcotics needed. And I got my full motion back in 21 days by working diligently at it. Full 135 degrees my 6th PT visit-he fired me for the remaining scheduled visits.
Yes, it is big surgery, but life changing. Going from every painful step to not thinking about it at all? AWESOME!
You continue to refuse known and well-documented treatment for problems. The fact that you refuse and prefer the suffering never ceases to amaze me.
I guess you'll just have to continue to be amazed.
Cathy, these docs were what came up for Indiana on the Weil website:
Name
Profession
Specialty
Clinic
City
State/
Province
Country
Angela LaSalle, MD
Physician (MD)
Family Medicine
Parkview Physician's Group Integrative Medicine
Fort Wayne
IN
US
Jeffrey Gladd, MD
Physician (MD)
Family Medicine
GladdMD Integrative Medicine
Fort Wayne
IN
US
So Cathy - have you considered to just stop the doctors visits? If you disagree with their plans, and you take very few meds - why go? You might be happier just giving it up and enjoying life.
There's a lot to be said for this approach, IMO.
Teacher Terry
2-14-19, 10:18am
G, my husband is really hoping he is a candidate for the surgery. Had the MRI yesterday. Thankfully I have no hip or knee problems.
I go back and forth wondering if my husband should get his hip replaced. I told him he needs to go back to the orthopedic guy here--the guy in SC said he needed it as he is bone on bone, the guy up here seemed to think it was just bursitis. It is the same side where he shattered the pelvis. I think he needs to go see the guy here and see what he recommends, and make an informed decision.
some people do not want to replace joints. I get it. My cousin replaced one knee and had such a bad experience she did not do the other, which also needed it.
In my experience, doctors often do not agree with each other, so that makes it hard to say, I will do what every doctor tells me to do--often, the advice is contradictory.
G, my husband is really hoping he is a candidate for the surgery. Had the MRI yesterday. Thankfully I have no hip or knee problems.
My MRI showed nothing. It was a knee arthroscopy that showed the huge hole in the thigh bone end of the joint. I pursued the arthroscopy because it was just too painful bearing full weight when walking to be nothing. MRI is about 50% conclusive in the knee and shoulder joints.
I guess you'll just have to continue to be amazed. Right..............constant complaining and no action on the recommended course of action are serving you well.
some people do not want to replace joints.
True so true and that is their perogative. On the other hand, chronically complaining about a problem when a proven course of treatment is recommended and ignoring it, gets really old. We all have free choice but stop complaining then.
True so true and that is their perogative. On the other hand, chronically complaining about a problem when a proven course of treatment is recommended and ignoring it, gets really old. We all have free choice but stop complaining then.
Then stop reading my posts, if you find them so irritating.
You seem to have little tolerance for others who haven't experienced what you have. You don't know me at all. So.....just quit reading my posts.
I'm really surprised that your Primary dr didn't send you to a Rheumatologist yet. I know my Rh treats Fibromyalgia as well as RA and osteoarthritis. I had to shop around for a good dr, but now that I have one I see him for all sorts of things. He recently orderd an MRI of my shoulder for me because the Dr that was already treating my rotator cuff tear wasn't doing his job. There could be a few different reasons for chronically watery eyes. Dust, clogged tear ducts, an infection, etc. My cat whacked me in the face with her tail and scratched my corneas last month, and my eyes are still watering. They could also be from an autoimmune disease. Ironically, dry eye syndrome causes watery eyes. Both my RA dr and Ophthamologist tell me to keep a hot, damp cloth over my eyes for at least 5 mins every day for dry eyes. I also have over the counter drops.
I'm really surprised that your Primary dr didn't send you to a Rheumatologist yet.
Great suggestion.
Teacher Terry
2-15-19, 4:17pm
Mri results came back and my husband has a tear and large cyst on his knee. It will be interesting to see what they recommend. He is anxious to get back to walking. I told him no surgery until my wrist heals
I have seen a rheumatologist, but was unhappy with him. No compassion, spent very little time with me and then sent me to his nurse practitioner, who asked me questions for an hour, and was fairly uncompassionate also. She told me they'd schedule a test, and they never got back with me. I'm a little hesitant in giving another one a try, since DH knows a lot of them and doesn't think I'll like them. I'm at the point where I just couldn't take another hurried, uncaring doc. My dentist, who I love ....but just retired :( recommended an acupuncturist that he had gone to, so I might give that a try. I know what I need to do when I have to run errands or work in the garden, etc. I still can get a fair number of things done from just having the intestinal fortitude. I think I worked so hard over christmas, that it worsened things for me. Once it warms up and the sun comes out and I can ride my cart, start the garden, etc., maybe my brain will tell my body parts to settle down. I hope so!
I appreciate those of you who have offered me useful advice.
Teacher Terry.....Sorry your DH is having problems and hopefully your wrist heals soon!
Teacher Terry
2-15-19, 9:45pm
I have found acupuncture to be helpful. It’s not painful. Cathy, thanks for the good thoughts.
Then stop reading my posts, if you find them so irritating.
You seem to have little tolerance for others who haven't experienced what you have. You don't know me at all. So.....just quit reading my posts.
No. I have literal tolerance for ongoing complaints, getting recommendations for treatment, refusing treatment, and complaining some more. And this is chronic with you here, so I know just a bit about you.....you post it a lot of health complaints.
Over and out.
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