Incompetence.....

[gimmethesimplelife]

Quick question....does the level of incompetence you run across in your daily life sometimes astound you? Count me as a yes. I'm not saying I'm the most capable and competent person, and yes, I'm human and I make mistakes too and have made some doozies in my lifetime.....but I also will say that in the past year the level of incompetence I've been running across in phone customer service situations and in front line staff in other situations really is hitting new levels.

I wonder if some of this is fallout due to Arizona's relatively high minimum wage? If training is being cut even more and poor souls are just thrown on the floor like many restaurants do to just sink or swim?

Has anyone else noticed this? Rob

[Yppej]

Definitely in the call centers outsourced to the Philippines with language barriers and just follow the script training. And in customer service stateside I think sometimes people are capable of good service but too lazy to deliver it. Certainly I see that from some of my coworkers even though we interact with customers on an irregular basis, it's not an overwhelming volume.

[Teacher Terry]

Call centers are horrible!

[gimmethesimplelife]

Call centers are horrible!They sure are. I have been in the market for a fairly low limit credit card lately now that I can afford to realistically carry plastic again - though I wonder if I am really just better off sticking to cash or debit cards for convenience - and one of my criteria - all call center staff must be US based. Any other credit card has not earned a place in my wallet per my standards, and this one is non negotiable. Discover is a good example - their call center staff is entirely - at least at the moment anyway - still US based. Rob

[pinkytoe]

Yes I have and it concerns me. When I get exceptional customer service, I tend to get a name and let management know.

[Teacher Terry]

Rob, you want a CC to rent cars because otherwise they put a huge amount as a hold on your account.

[herbgeek]

Some of the poor service levels are the aggressive metrics out in place by management teams. When you are only allowed so many seconds per call, you aren't going to do any more than a minimum.

[CathyA]

Yes, I see incompetence everywhere.

[ToomuchStuff]

2722

It shouldn't. Examples that I have are those, that can't read an analog clock, the all too common bad spellers (who wonder why I can't read their stuff and understand it), those that loose their government job, due to efficiency and speed, and then someone like our old UPS driver, who kept his job, when his stated to the press goal, was to be the worst person in the union and have a job.

[Lainey]

Some of the poor service levels are the aggressive metrics out in place by management teams. When you are only allowed so many seconds per call, you aren't going to do any more than a minimum.

This. As someone with a relative who works in call center/customer service, they are definitely measured in terms of time per call. Even chit chat like how are you, how's the weather, is cutting into the time they are allotted. If they give excellent customer service, but go over their time limit, they are penalized.
So I'd say yes, competence can vary, but always have to consider the circumstance and work constraints too.

[JaneV2.0]

This. As someone with a relative who works in call center/customer service, they are definitely measured in terms of time per call. Even chit chat like how are you, how's the weather, is cutting into the time they are allotted. If they give excellent customer service, but go over their time limit, they are penalized.
So I'd say yes, competence can vary, but always have to consider the circumstance and work constraints too.

I have a meticulously competent friend who quit before she was fired because she "didn't talk fast enough." It was routine for her co-workers to just dump customers if their calls went too long. As usual, the only thing that counts is money. I'm getting bitter about that--can you tell?

[gimmethesimplelife]

I have a meticulously competent friend who quit before she was fired because she "didn't talk fast enough." It was routine for her co-workers to just dump customers if their calls went too long. As usual, the only thing that counts is money. I'm getting bitter about that--can you tell?Seriously, this whole call center thing is so crazy that I really wonder if I should just do without a credit card period. At least this way I won't ever have to call an 800 customer service number in regards to a credit card issue and deal with this. Maybe avoiding situations where you realistically can to minimize dealing with this issue is a good way to go. Rob

[Sad Eyed Lady]

I agree with all of you about the call centers but, the frustration of standing in front of someone - who speaks your language and is not pressured for time, but still acts as if they don't know what you are saying or even willing to do their job as in take your order, answer a questions, point you in the right direction to find something, is extremely frustrating as well. Sometimes you have to wait till they decide to pocket their phone, or just acknowledge this is a customer here and this is my job. Generalizing is not a good thing, but the two things I see: 1. no regard of common courtesy and 2. pride in their job. Maybe not pride in the job so much as just acknowledging that it is a job and they need to interact with customers for a set number of hours and try to be courteous about it!

[JaneV2.0]

Seriously, this whole call center thing is so crazy that I really wonder if I should just do without a credit card period. At least this way I won't ever have to call an 800 customer service number in regards to a credit card issue and deal with this. Maybe avoiding situations where you realistically can to minimize dealing with this issue is a good way to go. Rob

Interestingly, she herself has never owned a credit card. Which boggles my mind.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Interestingly, she herself has never owned a credit card. Which boggles my mind.Jane, hi, I'm not sure who you are referring to here? Just to be clear I have held credit cards myself before and overused them big time and had issues with them (though no late payment or defaults ever) - a friend of my family passed in 2012 and I came into some money, some of which I used to pay off my debts and I've spent several years here free of credit cards. I'm looking for one low limit credit card and I think my best bet would be to go credit union with it - that way if there's any issues I can visit a branch and not deal with a customer service line and a manager should things call for one would likely be easier to find/produce.

Actually, the more I think about it, the more I think credit union is the way to go for a credit card. That way I'd still have the card provided I'm approved and I could get around an aspect of customer service I personally find often problematic. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I agree with all of you about the call centers but, the frustration of standing in front of someone - who speaks your language and is not pressured for time, but still acts as if they don't know what you are saying or even willing to do their job as in take your order, answer a questions, point you in the right direction to find something, is extremely frustrating as well. Sometimes you have to wait till they decide to pocket their phone, or just acknowledge this is a customer here and this is my job. Generalizing is not a good thing, but the two things I see: 1. no regard of common courtesy and 2. pride in their job. Maybe not pride in the job so much as just acknowledging that it is a job and they need to interact with customers for a set number of hours and try to be courteous about it!I run into this often as a supervisor - the temps I supervise taking no ownership in their work or any pride whatsoever in getting a hard job done and done with standards intact in a short amount of time. This might not be the most skilled work out there but easy it isn't and it's not for everyone. I keep reminding myself that given the temp nature of the work what I'm wishing for is unrealistic but still......even as a temp I took a little pride in what I was doing because I know people that couldn't handle the stress of rapid fire mass production. I'm thinking some of it is just general apathy, lack of hope and general decay of society - but still, is it so hard to take a little pleasure in doing a hard job well?

Jeepers, did I just cross the line into management for real? Did I become a suit? I still stand by what I have posted above regardless.........Rob

[iris lilies]

I run into this often as a supervisor - the temps I supervise taking no ownership in their work or any pride whatsoever in getting a hard job done and done with standards intact in a short amount of time. This might not be the most skilled work out there but easy it isn't and it's not for everyone. I keep reminding myself that given the temp nature of the work what I'm wishing for is unrealistic but still......even as a temp I took a little pride in what I was doing because I know people that couldn't handle the stress of rapid fire mass production. I'm thinking some of it is just general apathy, lack of hope and general decay of society - but still, is it so hard to take a little pleasure in doing a hard job well?

Jeepers, did I just cross the line into management for real? Did I become a suit? I still stand by what I have posted above regardless.........Rob

“Taking pride in your work” is one way to describe this phenomenon of poor customer service, and I am not saying it is a bad way. But I do have to wonder if these people who produce poor customer service have actually been taught anything? And then I have to wonder about all of this touchy-feely stuff that we are teaching at school today about Respect for others, empathy for others, how do our actions make others feel? Why aren’t these lessons taking hold? Be ause that is a large part of this or customer service—disrespecting the time and concerns of customers.

[JaneV2.0]

Rob, I was referring to my friend, the erstwhile call center worker.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Rob, I was referring to my friend, the erstwhile call center worker.Gotcha, sorry Jane.....sometimes I shouldn't be allowed outside (LOL) too early in the morning for not clicking connections well. Rob

[SiouzQ.]

The generally poor customer service in the Santa Fe area was a real shocker to me when I moved out here. Just 20 minutes ago I was trying to get one doctor office to send the other doctor office my medical records for an appointment next week and the call started out pleasant enough but then for some reason it devolved in the woman getting a bit snippy with me for no reason other than I seem to be marked as a difficult patient at that office? Due to the fact I had a very hard time with the last surgery in January and I feel like the Dr. really doesn't want to deal with having an unhappy, time-consuming patient...

[Rogar]

It almost goes without saying that foreign call centers tend to incompetence. My experience with brick and mortar retail has been pretty good. Maybe they know that customer service is their advantage over online retail. I don't know where it falls in description, but quality and quality control of a lot of things from China is poor. Though they do surprisingly well with some things, it is almost expected that a lot of electronics and other things will have a short lifespan before they wear out or break.

But what has surprised me is the incompetence in the medical profession. All the way from office workers to doctors and small issues up to life threatening, by my experience. I don't know if it's the actual people or the system that tries to push through high volumes of work so that they can make a living from insurance compensations. It's not everybody, but when you're dealing with quality of life or even life or death I would expect much better.

[JaneV2.0]

General commentary:

Yes--a credit union is the way to go, IMO. In my experience, they have people, not endless phone tree loops, and they're usually free from megabank influences.

Yes, I'm sure lack of training is very much a part of the problem. When I started my Megacorp tech career, we got months of hands-on training. That gradually phased out with the advent at profit-uber-alles in the eighties. In my last tech job, I got no training whatsoever.

Unfortunately, I agree about the level of competence/care provided by the medical-industrial complex. I suppose in some cases people get treated promptly and adequately, but I can't say I've seen that myself. I hope to live by Congressman Grayson's advice: "American health care: don't get sick--and if you do get sick, die quickly."

[Lainey]

On the medical side, here's a rant from a pharmacy tech:
https://www.reddit.com/r/pharmacy/comments/amy9j5/just_another_cvs_rant/

[SteveinMN]

I think there are two legs to this stool:

- An education isn't what it once was. Used to be we were drilled on "times tables" and taught to calculate in our heads things like the amount of change that had to be returned in a purchase. Now the numbers are tapped into a cash register, all trust is placed in the blinking box, and most clerks don't seem to have a clue if the number that appears on the display cannot pass the smell test. Additionally, somewhere along the way we decided that spelling words properly was too hard, so now almost anything goes. I still remember my year-younger sister being taught to spell phonetically. It has screwed her up for spelling properly for her entire life. So I believe people are not as well-educated in the basics as they were.

- I also believe much of the incompetence we perceive is directed by management. Promotion to management used to be an acknowledgement of excellence in a particular skill or service; the good employees worked up the ranks and got to model superior skills for the newer employees. Then management became this interchangeable meta-skill which requires special college degrees but is far more concerned with how much "value" can be extracted from customers and far less with the value of individual customers and their willingness to spend money at, advertise, and forgive your company. There rarely is understanding of (or empathy for) customers or the people who serve them (who, btw, typically are the lowest-paid in any organization). Gotta say, it's tough to bend over backward for a customer when your management is busy kicking you in the backside all the time.

I used to work at a large transportation company which relied very heavily on good customer service because it (supposedly) was a differentiator; other local companies offered the same product at the same price. The chief execs never seemed to understand that, to customers, they were not the face of the company; instead, that face was the dockhand that randomly tossed onto the conveyor belt the boxes marked "Fragile" because he was under the gun to clear each shipment in X time -- or the face was the agent working a double who could not locate a critical next-day shipment lost in the wrong airport at 8 am.

A family medicine doctor friend of mine complains frequently that his supervisors tell him he is "spending too much time" on patients. Tech support agents are rated on how many calls they close on the first contact, which sounds efficient until the agents figure out that quickly telling clients "It's broken; call back later" closes the call and bumps their numbers to make themselves look like stars -- but that infuriates the caller, who gets zip for her trouble. My next-door neighbor worked on a car assembly line for years. This guy overengineers every repair he does at home. He knows how to do it right. Different creature on the assembly line, though, when he would get written up for spending a little extra on a job (car) to do it right ("We've got people in inspection for that."). The company doesn't make that model anymore. Who was responsible for that happening?

[flowerseverywhere]

Much of the incompetence is caused by big company’s desire for greater profits for the ceo’s And executives to split. One of my younger sibs is job hunting. $10.10 an hour, every weekend and you have to dress professionally. Benefits almost non existent. Ridiculous. She recently went to an interview and it was insane, a group interview like a cattle call, low wage, poor benefits and demeaning hiring process.

People used to to take pride in their work because the companies were loyal. When you got sick the people tried to help you, now they try to figure out how to get rid of you. Often you could get even get some kind of pension for your loyalty or at least decent compensation. .

Now the focus is on downsizing, right sizing with reduced staff everywhere. But somewhere someone is making money. Follow the money and you see the problem.

Our politicians are being owned by corporations and they let them get away with murder.

So no wonder why people don’t care. They have nothing but a lifetime of work ahead of them for little reward, ever increasing workload and a dim future. Our waters are being polluted (my prediction for the next real crisis) Social security is being targeted. Our deficit is exploding and their are daily stories about the enormous student debt. A physician today graduates with hundreds of thousands in debt. A pharmacist or physical therapist needs four to eight years of university now before getting to work.

And everyone is trying to film you to sue or get you fired. No wonder morale is low.

[Lainey]

As far as the efficiency/profit pressures on customer satisfaction, I wonder if we all need to look in the mirror for the cause. By "all" I mean everyone who owns stocks and insists on seeing stock values going up each quarter.
It's one thing to look at your stock portfolio and cheer when it increases, and it's another thing to complain that companies are decreasing cost by cutting staffing to the bone. Aren't these two connected?

[JaneV2.0]

The push to make us all shareholders (where is that ROFL smiley?) came when corporations started phasing out defined pensions--it was really a brilliant move, taking the onus off even paying out miserly amounts from the one percent and forcing most of the middle class to invest in the stock market via 401Ks and similar.