View Full Version : "You can't handle the truth"
OK, here goes.
Some of you know about my spouse already. It's been a long struggle (you can see some of my more recent threads). I am going to preface this post with "please don't respond with a knee-jerk reaction of 'divorce the man.'" I've considered it, and I continue to consider it.
My husband of 30+ years is mentally ill. The diagnosis is "general anxiety disorder," but he has ADHD and PTSD. He is extremely defensive when called on his behavior and tries to turn the focus on me. In his favor, once in a while he attends a 12-step program for people diagnosed with mental illness. Here's the issue: We bought a house in November and we're still not living there. He is dragging his heels on painting, tossing old junk, packing his own stuff. If I pack something, sure, he'll drive it over there, and he bought the painting supplies--but he doesn't seem to be able to really get much done.
Today, I asked about delivery of the washing machine we bought over a year ago. He said it was supposed to be delivered today. I've been told that many times. He says the basement's "not ready yet." I finally called Best Buy (till now, he's been the one handling the transaction) and they said there has not been a delivery date scheduled since last July. The delivery date is May 3. I feel sadness and despair. I don't know if I should confront him and tell him I know the truth and to stop lying to me. I suspect that will just bring on more excuses. Then I'd have to admit to him (and myself) that I don't trust him anymore. What do you think I should do?
I feel sad, angry, despairing...
I should also add that I have told him that even if I am sleeping on an air mattress, I will be living in the new house as of May 1. I have a trip planned for mid-May and I really want to be living in the new house by then.
I can see why you are sad, angry and despairing. I would be too. I wouldn't bother confronting him; he'll figure it out when he sees the machine being delivered. You're right to just go ahead and live your life. Sometimes once we make the decision to "be done," we can move on, even if we're still physically living with someone. Hugs.
I'm sorry--I was not clear above. HE set up the May 3 delivery date, not I. So there won't be any figuring out on his part. Does that change your reply, beckyliz?
Can you provide any more insight as to why he doesn't seem to be able to get much done? If someone with ADHD was in this situation, I might expect they got a little done in a lot of areas (rather than complete a whole task). But I wouldn't expect NO progress. Does he not know how? Is he being passive aggressive about the house purchase? Does he have a substance abuse issue?
Can you provide any more insight as to why he doesn't seem to be able to get much done? If someone with ADHD was in this situation, I might expect they got a little done in a lot of areas (rather than complete a whole task). But I wouldn't expect NO progress. Does he not know how? Is he being passive aggressive about the house purchase? Does he have a substance abuse issue?
There's no substance abuse problem that I know of.
He does know how to accomplish these tasks. He was a contractor for many yeras.
He does do a little in a lot of areas, yes. So I shouldn't say "no progress." I'm not sure about the "passive aggressive" part. It was his freaking idea that we HAD to buy the house we bought, and in a hurry, because he thought our local slumlord was colluding with our landlord and we'd be tossed out. Now he sees that nothing has happened, so I guess he thinks he can take his good old time.
Oops--I just read a bit about passive-aggressive behavior. Seems to fit the bill.
Will you be able to swing the mortgage payment on your own, if necessary?
Is he being treated for his conditions? Anxiety and PTSD can both be paralyzing and debilitating depending on the severity. And separately, are you able to move forward with the move without his help? That seems the best course of action for your own sake. I'm thinking you can change the delivery dates for appliances, schedule utilities set up, and even schedule movers if needed. Decide how you would move forward if you were on your own, and then take action.
iris lilies
3-27-19, 5:09pm
I am very very worried that the OP will be stuck making both house payment and rent. I would be thinking about how to get out from under that.
I am always about the money.
I am very very worried that the OP will be stuck making both house payment and rent. I would be thinking about how to get out from under that.
I am always about the money.
I wouldn't want to go bankrupt because of someone else's inaction, that's for sure. I would get busy moving myself into the new house, pronto. When do you have to be out of the old house?
Will you be able to swing the mortgage payment on your own, if necessary?
Yes, I could. But I could never do or pay for the repairs necessary to update and maintain a 100-year-old house with 7 rooms. I made it very clear to him that if we were going to buy this house, which he (at the time) wanted so much, then he would need to get some kind of a job, even a part-time one.
If he does not, and there's no other source of income, I will have to sell the house and rent an apartment.
Is he being treated for his conditions? Anxiety and PTSD can both be paralyzing and debilitating depending on the severity. And separately, are you able to move forward with the move without his help? That seems the best course of action for your own sake. I'm thinking you can change the delivery dates for appliances, schedule utilities set up, and even schedule movers if needed. Decide how you would move forward if you were on your own, and then take action.
I'm sorry to say he is not under medical care for these conditions. He does attend a 12-step program for "dual diagnoses" (i.e. substance abuse and mental illness) but he doesn't have a substance abuse problem. And he rarely attends. He tried to "guilt" me this morning by asking "should I not have gone to my meeting last night?" when I said I needed him to do more for the move to happen.
The utilities are up and running, so of course I'm paying those on both places. I will schedule movers if necessary.
I wouldn't want to go bankrupt because of someone else's inaction, that's for sure. I would get busy moving myself into the new house, pronto. When do you have to be out of the old house?
There's no date. He never told the landlady we were moving. His idea is to drop the key in the mailbox and give them a call and say "we're gone." There's no financial repercussion, and quite frankly, these people have been horrible landlords all these years.
I am very very worried that the OP will be stuck making both house payment and rent. I would be thinking about how to get out from under that.
I am always about the money.
I'm already stuck. That's why I told him I'm outta there by May 1. I have a funny feeling he won't be interested in paying the rent on the old place on his own.
iris lilies
3-27-19, 6:59pm
I'm already stuck. That's why I told him I'm outta there by May 1. I have a funny feeling he won't be interested in paying the rent on the old place on his own.
OK. It sounds as though your agreement with your landlord is loosey-goosey so if you leave in the dead of night you believe that you will not owe rent. But here’s the thing that I don’t understand: if your spouse is living in the rented house after May 1, or all of his crap is there, someone is going to have to pay the rent. He does not have income. (?)
Why do you think the landlord will not come after you for that rent whrn your dh is there?
Teacher Terry
3-27-19, 7:10pm
Is he on SSDI? How long since he last worked?
Is he on SSDI? How long since he last worked?
If he's not under medical care, he's not on SSDI. It took a friend three years of carefully documented treatment protocols, three reviews, and an attorney to qualify for SSDI--and they had both physical and mental conditions.
Teacher Terry
3-27-19, 7:18pm
Jane, I worked in this area but once people get it they often stop medical care.
I believe frugalone said before that he wasn't on it.
I probably would quit doctors too, if I qualified, because they are rarely effective in treating chronic conditions--so you're right. I hadn't thought of that.
Simplemind
3-27-19, 7:44pm
I would have to have a frank conversation with myself and ask..... If I was on my own (because you really are) would I want this house and all the work that comes with it. If the answer was no, I would get out of the house. I do believe in for better for worse, sickness and health but I'm with IL when it comes to the financials. If it is more work than I can do and more than I want to pay somebody else to do, I don't do it. If I had to poke and prod somebody else who was talking a good game but not doing it.... I wouldn't do it. If that somebody wasn't working...… I wouldn't do it.
Teacher Terry
3-27-19, 8:06pm
Very unhappy marriages take a toll on your physical health. I don’t take divorce lightly but sometimes you have to save yourself. Adults are not children and you are not responsible for a adult. If he is not working and the marriage has been long you can end up paying alimony. Ann Landers used to say are you better off with him or without him?
So frustrating. The only way out I can see is to set clear and calm boundaries with clear consequences, and follow through.
Example - if we are not living in the house together on May 1, I’m listing it for sale.
I’m assuming you are the primary on the loan, since he doesn’t have a job. So you could list it.
Teacher Terry
3-27-19, 9:59pm
Immediately selling it will be a loss as you will lose realtor and closing fees instantly. I would move in and hope within a few years you can break even.
iris lilies
3-27-19, 10:02pm
So frustrating. The only way out I can see is to set clear and calm boundaries with clear consequences, and follow through.
Example - if we are not living in the house together on May 1, I’m listing it for sale.
I’m assuming you are the primary on the loan, since he doesn’t have a job. So you could list it.
The number of signatures needed for real estate transactions: one to buy, two to sell.
she may be able to sign a listing agreement, dont know, but her husband has legal interest in this house.
Teacher Terry
3-27-19, 10:03pm
Only if he’s on the title or mortgage
iris lilies
3-27-19, 10:07pm
Only if he’s on the title or mortgage
I assume he is on the title.
Teacher Terry
3-27-19, 10:10pm
I have known some smart women in that situation to not put their husband’s on the title.
Alternate boundary -
“If we’re not living in that house by May 1, then I’m moving in and I’m informing our landlord that I am no longer a renter.”
Since the lease is nonexistent, perhaps this will work.
And I would get a legal separation to protect future finances.
Another radical alternative is to start acting like him. Stop being responsible. Don’t go to work and don’t pay bills and just see what happens. Of course you have to be willing to accept homelessness and financial disaster but I wonder at what point he would step up ...
iris lilies
3-28-19, 10:26am
If it is true that the OP cannot afford this house without her spouse contributing, there is no option but to sell it. Losing the sunk costs of real estate fee and closing costs is just part of the financial lesson here.
OP I do not think you have to leave your spouse, but you must understand his contributions will remain as they have been for these past years. So to me, the challange is where to live on your single income that is the least of a financial drain? You will always be supporting your household.
I like the idea of legal separation for the purposes of finances (that doesnt mean you have to leave him) but I am cautious about what that means foe potential spousal support.
We have talked about this before I think but I don’t remember the answer – how long until your spouse can draw Social Security? Does he have enough credits to draw? That is a potential source of income for him down the road where he could contribute to your household.
iris lilies
3-28-19, 10:27am
Another radical alternative is to start acting like him. Stop being responsible. Don’t go to work and don’t pay bills and just see what happens. Of course you have to be willing to accept homelessness and financial disaster but I wonder at what point he would step up ...
Of course this is only theoretical.tossing away what financial stability she has isnt rational.
Teacher Terry
3-28-19, 11:30am
She said she can afford the mortgage herself so I would hope it doesn’t need repairs before it appreciates enough to recover her money. If he is serious about getting a part time job to help with expenses send him to Vocational Rehabilitation. Since he has a disability they will help with that.
iris lilies
3-28-19, 11:50am
She said she can afford the mortgage herself so I would hope it doesn’t need repairs before it appreciates enough to recover her money. If he is serious about getting a part time job to help with expenses send him to Vocational Rehabilitation. Since he has a disability they will help with that.
I would NEVER advise someone who is living on the financial edge to wait for a piece of real estate to appreciate before selling it as the drain it is unless maybe that market is San Francisco, haha.
The OP said she could afford the mortgage. The OP said she could not afford repairs (although I have to wonder how she can afford a mortgage as well as rent for another property. To me it would seem the rental cost would about equal repairs to the property they own.) But here, I am taking at face value what the OP is saying. If she says she cannot afford it, she cannot afford it.
Her spouse is not serious about getting a part time job so spinnng ideas anout how the social services world will help him is a waste of time. He will not get a job. Even if OP could afford materials for repairs and improvements to her new house, it appears that her spouse with the knowledge and skills to perform those repairs would likely not do that work, and that's too bad because in that work he would make valuable contributions to their household.
Still, having a stay at home spouse can be useful in many ways so I hope he is making some contribution that isnt measured in salary.
Teacher Terry
3-28-19, 12:26pm
I don’t know if they are in a low or high cost of living but buying a house and immediately selling it locks in losses immediately and doesn’t make sense to me. I have known women that support men forever when they could work and they also contribute nothing on the home front. I would have to leave them before I got so mad that I buried them in the backyard:))
I'm sorry--I was not clear above. HE set up the May 3 delivery date, not I. So there won't be any figuring out on his part. Does that change your reply, beckyliz?
Honestly, not really. What good would it do? He's not going to change at this point.
frugalone
3-28-19, 12:34pm
Very unhappy marriages take a toll on your physical health. I don’t take divorce lightly but sometimes you have to save yourself. Adults are not children and you are not responsible for a adult. If he is not working and the marriage has been long you can end up paying alimony. Ann Landers used to say are you better off with him or without him?
Believe me, I've taken alimony into consideration. There are still many positive things about him and we do have some good, if not great times.
If I were on my own, I'd never buy a house. My mom does own her own house, and she says it's a lot of work (place is about 55 years old, one-floor rancher). I often think I'd be OK with two or three rooms. That said, the rents in our area have skyrocketed to ridiculous amounts of money due to out of town landlords buying up properties. This is an area with a lot of elderly folks, and when they die, their properties get bought up. In fact, our purchase was an estate sale.
No, my husband does not get disability. The best way I can think of it is that he's in a kind of denial. He doesn't want to admit that he's not able to hold a regular job. I've tried to reassure him that it's nothing to be ashamed of.
irislilies, there is a security deposit that the landlord can dip into. I don't want it back. These people are such lazy ass characters I doubt they'd get up off the couch to file a complaint. Seriously. In 20 years they haven't been inside the house. Before that, a lady and her kids rented the house for 8 years. They told us they hadn't been inside the house all that time, as well. Un-freaking-real.
The number of signatures needed for real estate transactions: one to buy, two to sell.
she may be able to sign a listing agreement, dont know, but her husband has legal interest in this house. In my state (Kansas), when my brother and I sold the house our mom left to us, both of our spouses had to sign off because, even though they weren't on the deed, state law imputed a marital interest in real estate.
frugalone
3-28-19, 12:38pm
I have known some smart women in that situation to not put their husband’s on the title.
I guess I'm not that smart, then.
frugalone
3-28-19, 12:39pm
Alternate boundary -
“If we’re not living in that house by May 1, then I’m moving in and I’m informing our landlord that I am no longer a renter.”
Since the lease is nonexistent, perhaps this will work.
And I would get a legal separation to protect future finances.
In my state, there is no such thing as a legal separation. I do like your suggested dialogue. I most certainly would let the landlord/lady know I'm not living in the house any longer.
frugalone
3-28-19, 12:44pm
If it is true that the OP cannot afford this house without her spouse contributing, there is no option but to sell it. Losing the sunk costs of real estate fee and closing costs is just part of the financial lesson here.
OP I do not think you have to leave your spouse, but you must understand his contributions will remain as they have been for these past years. So to me, the challange is where to live on your single income that is the least of a financial drain? You will always be supporting your household.
I like the idea of legal separation for the purposes of finances (that doesnt mean you have to leave him) but I am cautious about what that means foe potential spousal support.
We have talked about this before I think but I don’t remember the answer – how long until your spouse can draw Social Security? Does he have enough credits to draw? That is a potential source of income for him down the road where he could contribute to your household.
iris lilies--there's no legal separation in my state. My spouse cannot draw SS until I qualify for it and that is nearly a decade away. He doesn't have enough credits.
I feel quite often that this is an impossible situation--I'm damned if I do and damned if I don't. I've tried to make the best of it. I bought the house because it seemed like the best decision under the circumstances. Every now and then I look at apartments or half-doubles, and believe me, they're nothing to write home about. And they want $$$ through the nose for them.
It probably would be best to stay in the house for some time as I know I can't recoup (sp?) my investment. It was appraised at a higher rate than what we paid for it, on the other hand. There's always a chance someone else would pay more than we did.
Teacher Terry
3-28-19, 12:45pm
If rents are skyrocketing home prices should follow suit which will be good if you decide to sell. Read the book “Too good to leave. Too bad to stay.” It doesn’t sound like they will come after you being that lazy so I would send a registered letter saying you will be out by 5/1. I would tell your husband, have movers take the furniture and move in. Then see what your husband does.
If rents are skyrocketing home prices should follow suit which will be good if you decide to sell. Read the book “Too good to leave. Too bad to stay.” It doesn’t sound like they will come after you being that lazy so I would send a registered letter saying you will be out by 5/1. I would tell your husband, have movers take the furniture and move in. Then see what your husband does.
I read the book. I decided to stay, despite all of the negatives. Wouldn't hurt to reread it.
Good idea about the registered letter.
If rents are skyrocketing home prices should follow suit which will be good if you decide to sell. Read the book “Too good to leave. Too bad to stay.” It doesn’t sound like they will come after you being that lazy so I would send a registered letter saying you will be out by 5/1. I would tell your husband, have movers take the furniture and move in. Then see what your husband does.
I read the book. I decided to stay, despite all of the negatives. Wouldn't hurt to reread it.
Good idea about the registered letter.
Another book, Living with the passive aggressive man by Wetzler.
Teacher Terry
5-20-19, 10:44am
So Frug, did you move?
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