View Full Version : Inappropriate touching
In the realm of the #MeToo movement, we now have "Inappropriate Touching" as evidenced by the allegations thrown at Joe Biden. Unlike victims of #MeToo, these women have agreed that they were not traumatized in any way--they are accusing him of acting like their old uncles that aren't good at honoring personal space but who otherwise are harmless.
Is that a condition for a person running for public office now? I once worked under a superintendent of schools, and he was one of those "touchy" people. A hand on a shoulder, a brief hug, a head tousle, but it was completely harmless and not one student or parent complained, to my knowledge anyway.
I'm imagining this new offense is maybe set up by Republicans, but I hate to sound like I'm a vast right wing conspiracy theorist.
But if it takes hold, this may set a precedent. What will the rules be? Women wear tags that say, I accept handshakes from men but not two-handed handshakes?
Much ado about nothing. How about "Back off Joe." (Or Al, as the case may be.) These guys aren't predatory, and women aren't so delicate they can't fend off overly enthusiastic greetings.
Simplemind
4-2-19, 10:56am
Women do this too. Some men and women are just touchers. I am not a fan of people being in my bubble that I don't bring in. I was amazed when I was pregnant that absolute strangers would come up and touch my stomach. I had no problem taking a step back and telling them "please don't". It isn't even a blip on their radar that they have invaded your space and always seem to be surprised when you bring their attention to it.
This happens so often--something that's a real problem (sexual harassment of women) gets blown up out of proportion and starts to verge on hysteria. Nobody should be touched without their permission, but it happens. I'm a pretty reserved guy, and there have been plenty of times in my life people have touched me in ways that made me feel uncomfortable.
I understand that it's not quite the same thing for women, but it's not entirely different either. I think the root of the problem here is that for a long time women were expected to err on the side of forgiveness and it (understandably) grated on them. But now the pendulum has swung in the opposite direction, as pendulums do. But too far in the other direction, IMHO.
iris lilies
4-2-19, 11:06am
I don’t care what Joe Biden does, I think it’s probably harmless. But really I have to ask – do you remember when this whole touchy-feely thing came into being in the workplace? I’m thinking it was the early 80’s. I just remember that it didn’t happen innocently before that, at least I didn’t run into it, until the late 80s. I had a boss who did the whole hand on shoulder hand on back business and it was never in an inappropriate place, But I just remember thinking well this is weird.
I think in 1975 Joe Biden would not be putting his hands on anybody because it was just weird and every instance of it was harassment.
Of course before that I had a boss who did the touchy-feely thing inappropriately but that was clearly inappropriate, and not 80s style touchy-feely stuff. He was copping a feel ala 1950s Mad Men.
Since Catherine brought it up, I will relate what happened in St. Louis last week. Don Marsh, a news broadcaster who has been around forever, he’s got to be in his 70s, quit his NPR gig abruptly last week. He interviewed his old TV colleague Karen Foss and as she was entering the studio he remarked to her hey You look good. A common pleasantry.
Later a young female producer mentioned to him that that comment was inappropriate. He quit on the spot. The producer didn’t talk about disciplinary action, she didn’t make a big deal of it from what I can tell, but she did mention it to him and it was enough to make him mad and he quit.
It is true that we do not know what led up to this incident and if there were other issues with Don Marsh and this producer. But this situation in isolation is ridiculous – and Karen Foss said she took this comnent it as the simple pleasantry it was.
Teacher Terry
4-2-19, 11:24am
I think it’s now just becoming ridiculous. Everything seems to get taken to the extreme.
ToomuchStuff
4-2-19, 12:03pm
Some here, are the touchy-feely types as evidenced by the {hugs}. I have to fight my natural fight urge when people do that shit. (abducted, knife and gunpoint, dealt with serial killer and a few other murderers, and more)
Why should gender make a lick of a difference? I had a discussion with a lawyer friend about a case once. The Judge commented "it is flirting if they like you, sexual harassment if they don't". That doesn't even handle things like generational differences or people that have known one another for so long (their boundaries have evolved, aka the Don Marsh, Karen Foss thing).
The big difference in the Biden case, is he has bodyguards, so the reaction to punch him in the Adam's apple, wouldn't go down well.
The owner of one of the trucking companies I deal with a lot is a very old school Italian guy. He is all hugs and kisses. There’s just something about him that creeps me out. The other women in the office have no issue with him. I simply tell him I don’t do hugs and he doesn’t force the issue.
In an era of ascendant victim culture, oppression will inevitably be defined down from obvious to reasonable to questionable to absurd.
I'm imagining this new offense is maybe set up by Republicans, but I hate to sound like I'm a vast right wing conspiracy theorist.
Republicans have enjoyed joking about Biden's touchy-feely, gropey, sniffy, kissy tendencies for years. I remember being called on it here a year or two ago, but I don't think Republicans have anything to do with this one. Rumor has it Biden's camp thinks your favorite Democratic Socialist is behind it. https://www.axios.com/2020-presidential-election-joe-biden-bernie-sanders-99ec8fc7-e9a8-44e8-b52d-6c5a096d7fd3.html
Some here, are the touchy-feely types as evidenced by the {hugs}. I have to fight my natural fight urge when people do that shit. (abducted, knife and gunpoint, dealt with serial killer and a few other murderers, and more)
In my state, intentionally touching another person in an offensive way is assault in the 4th degree.
I was really surprised when my carpentry instructor, basically asked my permission to touch my hand while guiding me in how to use the table saw. I thought it was too bad we live in a world where he would think it was necessary.
Joe Biden is a weirdo. No normal person goes around sniffing people's hair unless they are trying to market shampoo.
I have a neighbor who always wants to hug me. I continually back away and say I am not a huggy person. We both are female. The way things are going this type of behavior will also be considered inappropriate. Where does it stop?????
iris lilies
4-2-19, 10:55pm
I have a neighbor who always wants to hug me. I continually back away and say I am not a huggy person. We both are female. The way things are going this type of behavior will also be considered inappropriate. Where does it stop?????
Where does it stop? Maybe with the huggy people stopping their hugging!
i dont want the pendulum to swing into stupidity which it may have done, but maybe we can just be more tightassed Northern European people and stop touching each other all the time. :)
Personally I think Biden is too old for the job of president. He's not quite as old as Bernie, but almost. But more importantly I expect gaffes and his past actions will drown his candidacy. And I'm fine with that. We've got a lot of other good candidates who will continue to gain popularity as people get to know them. And those candidates don't have gropey McGroper "grab her by the pussy" issues to deal with like Biden does.
Where does it stop? Maybe with the huggy people stopping their hugging!
i dont want the pendulum to swing into stupidity which it may have done, but maybe we can just be more tightassed Northern European people and stop touching each other all the time. :)
I find it amazing that when I go to see my West Coast clients, they ALL hug me EVERY time. Even the ones I've barely met or worked with. It's just part of the culture. "Regular" people I can see, but clients? These clients aren't men--they're young women, typically.
Speaking of tightassed Europeans--I had a client who was the sternest, tightest German I had ever met. She was a very formidable client. I was petrified of her most of the time. We were gong to meet in Italy for research on time. When I got to the airport in Newark I went to the President's Club and who did I run into but Gisela. I don't know WHAT possessed me, because I am very reserved myself, but I cried out, "Gisela!" and I hugged her as if she were part of my family (and more like a Greek family--not an Anglo one). As soon as I was in the middle of that stiff embrace I remember thinking, "What the h** am I doing??"
I still don't know what possessed me to hug her. I think I was caught off guard because I didn't expect to see her there. In any case, it didn't kill the business relationship, and if she was upset by my forward greeting, she would have surely have told me.
Where does it stop? Maybe with the huggy people stopping their hugging!
i dont want the pendulum to swing into stupidity which it may have done, but maybe we can just be more tightassed Northern European people and stop touching each other all the time. :)
Hear, hear! I went to a conference once where they handed out badges that politely said something like "Don't hug me." Or maybe they were red and green...I don't recall now. But I thought that was an excellent idea. .Needless to say, we were on the West coast. As I've said before, I don't want anyone touching me who isn't related to me or sleeping with me. Another tight ass Euro heard from.
Yes, Biden is too old--and as far as I can tell, he has no fresh ideas to make up for it. But lordy, we have an impressive lineup of candidates so far.
Touchers vs non-touchers? I must admit I am one of the non-touchers. My daughter hugs and kisses many.
Her teachers called her "the hugger." I think Joe Biden is a hugger and although most pics show him with women, I'd say he hugs the guys too.
Does this disqualify him? Not in my eyes.
Touchers vs non-touchers? I must admit I am one of the non-touchers. My daughter hugs and kisses many.
Her teachers called her "the hugger." I think Joe Biden is a hugger and although most pics show him with women, I'd say he hugs the guys too.
Does this disqualify him? Not in my eyes.
There's a whole series out there of pictures of him hugging men, a few of whom look distinctly uncomfortable.
Even though I am of the relatively tightass, reticent British persuasion when it comes to personal contact, I have to say that I knew a guy in our church who was, as they used to say, "corpulent." Very. He played the piano and had this wonderful booming voice and he'd sing "Go Tell it On the Mountain" like there was no tomorrow. And when he hugged you, you KNEW you were being hugged. But his hugs didn't bother me at all--in fact they were wonderful. Unfortunately, he died in his 60s from diabetes. For some weird reason, my sobs at his memorial service were just as unusual for me (as a stiff upper lip kind of person) as my acceptance of his hugs.
So, a lot depends on the hugger as well as the huggee. (This post is for you, Bill L.)
ToomuchStuff
4-3-19, 10:19am
In my state, intentionally touching another person in an offensive way is assault in the 4th degree.
I put in bold the problem area of that law. In my state, touching someone without permission, is an assault. (think tapping an officer on the shoulder)
What might be offensive to someone on the scale, might be nothing to someone not. Same thing with someone in uniform, doing a job and always having to watch out for someone grabbing for their gun.
I've had two people grab and hug me that I kept my defend reaction from kicking in, but felt leaping out of my skin creeped out. One was a recently retired teacher (45 years), who was diagnosed with Alzheimers and I knew since 16, the other I mentioned in another thread. A 20's something gal, I watched grow up and used to flirt with her mother, that wanted me to be the "father of our family".
Generally, for more then a handshake, you need to be tolerated family (cousin's grandmother in her 80's, etc), not the family that I was taught would vivisect someone and enjoy it, or I have had to dream I would trust them with my life.
All you huggy huggers creep me out.
Teacher Terry
4-3-19, 10:51am
Since we moved to the West Coast I have noticed people hugging more. It doesn’t bother me at all.
What might be offensive to someone on the scale, might be nothing to someone not.
There are so many reasons someone might not wish to be touched without consent. Many of them are not apparent during casual social interactions.
I know a fair number of people who are victims of trauma, who are distinctly uncomfortable with strangers (or even friends) touching them in certain ways. It causes them to recall their trauma, and can produce very bad mental and physical reactions. They may not be able to speak up for themselves to refuse the advances in real time.
My mother had abdominal surgery some years ago, and for many months had a colostomy bag. Hugging was ill-advised.
I dislocated my elbow in my right hand 4 months ago, things are still sort and damaged - I could not shake hands the first three months with my right hand, and I still won't do it until I am completely healed. And even then, I don't like shaking hands, it is a violation of my space, and I don't want your germs. And too many men do the handshake dominance game. Who wants that?
In my medical training, I am instructed to always ask for consent for each type and region of touch, and to be very careful about boundaries.
When a person of power and privilege comes up to "give a harmless hug", people with less power may be quite uncomfortable refusing the intrusion in a public setting. Predators take advantage of this "go along to get along" socialization.
It's pretty simple - keep your hands off people until you have negotiated consent.
Personally I think Biden is too old for the job of president. He's not quite as old as Bernie, but almost. But more importantly I expect gaffes and his past actions will drown his candidacy. And I'm fine with that. We've got a lot of other good candidates who will continue to gain popularity as people get to know them. And those candidates don't have gropey McGroper "grab her by the pussy" issues to deal with like Biden does.
The only one who has "grab her by the pussy" issues is admittedly Trump!!!
I can see how these women would find this whole touchy hair sniffing thing creepy.
Once my boss (a guy) put both of his hands on my shoulders - I am sure he felt it was a way of connecting with me. I immediately backed up and asked him to never do that again! I even surprised myself with my quick and direct reaction. It was definitely a power approach and very demeaning.
Once those hands go on your shoulders you feel trapped! Hostage comes to mind. I find him and his capped white teeth very creepy.
This thread has been educational for me.
Living in the southwest, there’s lots of hugging. Even from some coworkers. Being a boss, I work hard to never initiate it. But I allow a “side hug” if necessary. I’m naturally comfortable with it, but just want to be sensitive, as being the boss, it’s an important consideration.
Teacher Terry
4-3-19, 9:35pm
I have had clients initiate a hug and I am fine with it.
Other than a handshake I would never consider intentionally touching a coworker or other professional contact. The exception to that is if I am a friend outside of work circumstances with them. For instance the insurance broker I sometimes work with on accounts who has become a close enough friend that SO and I go to parties at her house a few times a year.
It's pretty much the same rule I follow regarding work compliments. Unless it's someone who is my friend outside the office the only compliments I will ever give are work related. "Great presentation this morning!" "Congratulations on winning the mega-corp account." That sort of thing. "Nice hairdo", or "love that dress" or, "damn Ben, those pants really fit your ass well" just aren't appropriate things to say in a work context.
Teacher Terry
4-3-19, 10:19pm
You usually can tell when someone is being creepy. When younger and receiving compliments even if it was a male boss you can tell the difference. I always enjoyed a compliment male or female. We also had a lot of fun with banter with close co-workers. It’s a shame that things have gotten so extreme.
You usually can tell when someone is being creepy. When younger and receiving compliments even if it was a male boss you can tell the difference. I always enjoyed a compliment male or female. We also had a lot of fun with banter with close co-workers. It’s a shame that things have gotten so extreme.
I agree. But I think the reality is that some people just don't realize when they're being inappropriate. At 51 years old I'm well aware that Ben*, who is half my age, wouldn't appreciate my comment on his pants. At 41, or 31, I may not have been so smart.
I actually had a conversation adjacent to that point today. I was interviewing for a potential job at one of my employer's competitors and commented that my current employer has an institutionalized system of micromanagement (a very complex authority system to quote accounts) that the potential new employer does not have. But I justified/explained that it is because we also have a lot of young underwriters who may not understand or care about the why's of not allowing underwriters to offer certain terms in their quotes. Potential employer doesn't have that, but they still have the expectation that their underwriters know what the issues are and will make responsible decisions. It's just not codified to the level that my current mega-corp employer has done.
*not his real name. Name changed to protect the anonymity of my coworker who wears really flattering pants but is straight and probably not interested in getting compliments from a middle-aged gay guy like me.
Teacher Terry
4-3-19, 11:01pm
It seems like a shame that you can’t give a honest compliment to someone. I think the pendulum has swung to far.
My husband used to have a horrible habit of not only calling many women, including his employees, "babe," but even saying to them "You're a babe!" Boy, did that ever grate on my nerves (believe me, it was not about jealousy--I was cringing for him and wondering what those women were actually thinking behind their smiles). I told him all the time he shouldn't do that in the workplace. He didn't understand why it would ever be offensive to a woman.
"damn Ben, those pants really fit your ass well" just aren't appropriate things to say in a work context.
One time at work I was wearing a dress and was walking and a co-worker was walking behind and me and started to sing the song, "watch it wiggle, see it jiggle..." and he was talking about my ass! I turned around and demanded to know what the hell he was doing. He looked shocked and told me it was a BIG compliment. What kind of an idiot would say that to someone? I've also had male co-workers make comments about wanting my swing on their porch. Granted, this was in the 90's. So hopefully things are different now. Anyway, your restraint on complimenting Ben and his great ass made me laugh! :)
So I just got back from a business meeting with an insurance broker I’ve met with maybe 6 times in the past couple of years. On the way out she gave me a hug. Kind of surprising but oh well.
I had a co-worker who used to call me "Twinkle Tits." It was an all male crew, except for me. It could have been worse...
When I was very young I had a male boss that told me I should go braless in the office. I STILL remember how creepy that was. Talk about inappropriate!
I also had an extremely attractive boss once who liked to go commando. It was hard to look away when he held meetings...:|(
Dang. I wish Ben would go commando!
Dang. I wish Ben would go commando!
:devil:
At this point, I've experienced two demented old presidents in my lifetime. While Warren and Sanders seem with it, and I suppose Biden as well, I really, really want someone young and vigorous this time around.
At this point, I've experienced two demented old presidents in my lifetime. While Warren and Sanders seem with it, and I suppose Biden as well, I really, really want someone young and vigorous this time around.
I hate to apply age to the next President - but someone in the middle would be great - fresh ideas, who is vigorous and some knowledge of history. And please a statesman/woman, with a filter.
One of my old bosses used to follow me around and ask what color my panties were. I heard that the term for Biden's offense is called "benevolent sexism".
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56492582_10214003991356136_8098348273275764736_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=c0bd4a3554f63282aec087c3d9b53f0d&oe=5D3B5CBC
I saw this quote in our local paper today and it mirrored my thoughts:
We are being led to believe that humanity is made out of glass. Touch me, invade my space, disagree with me, make me feel nervous or fail to live up to someone’s manufactured set of standards and we’ll fall to pieces. Joe Biden is an older man from a different era who believes making contact with people is part of being human. He did not commit a crime. He is in no way a part of the male harassment and assault issue; not even close.
I saw this quote in our local paper today and it mirrored my thoughts:
"Touch me, invade my space, disagree with me, make me feel nervous or fail to live up to someone’s manufactured set of standards and we’ll fall to pieces."
So, all of the items on that list are not equivalent. Touching is assault in many circumstances. Invading space may be a prelude to assault, and can be problematic for people who have experienced previous trauma.
That's a bit different than "disagreeing".
If a stranger comes up and attempts to put hands on me, I will be uncomfortable for a range of reasons, and will resist the uninvited touch.
Teacher Terry
4-5-19, 3:32pm
I knew someone that couldn’t have a man work behind her on a assembly line because of being raped and beaten st work and the man came from behind. She had a young sweet man with severe CP work behind her and couldn’t tolerate it even though intellectually she knew he wouldn’t hurt her and besides she could take him. The scars last a lifetime. I don’t think Biden did anything wrong. He was just a product of his time.
He was just a product of his time.
Times have changed. We need someone who understands the current world.
I wouldn't hire a touchy-feely space-invading person for a front-line customer service position, or indeed any position where they had to work with other employees. I'm not sure why I would want such a person in a leadership role.
I agree that everything in this country has gone too far, in one direction or the other. We're a country of spoiled whiners. And the founders of this country had no idea that what they were trying to do would lead to all this.
With their attempts to include everyone and give justice to everyone, we have become a country of so many required/demanded individual justices that it's hard to do so many things, in fear of offending SOMEONE. Yes, rape/sexual assault is unacceptable.....but who decides what all the other stuff is unacceptable? We're a circus, where every single performer is demanding their rights....whether those demands are reasonable or ridiculous. It's all totally out of hand.
In this country of so much freedom, we've learned that the individual is what's most important and we have learned that we have the right to be offended and demand something to fix it all, all the time. What a mess.
Times have changed. We need someone who understands the current world.
I wouldn't hire a touchy-feely space-invading person for a front-line customer service position, or indeed any position where they had to work with other employees. I'm not sure why I would want such a person in a leadership role.
From all that has transpired, it has been brought to Biden's attention. He appears to understand and be enlightened. Unlike the current president (see Alan's picture above that represents Trump to a T ... pun intended).
Teacher Terry
4-5-19, 4:23pm
Well trump certainly doesn’t understand the times even bragging about grapping women’s crotches. I just hope the Democrats run someone that can actually win.
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56492582_10214003991356136_8098348273275764736_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=c0bd4a3554f63282aec087c3d9b53f0d&oe=5D3B5CBC
Hey Alan......what are you saying with this? This isn't what he did.
Hey Alan......what are you saying with this? This isn't what he did.It's a joke.
We're a circus, where every single performer is demanding their rights.... It's all totally out of hand.
In this country of so much freedom, we've learned that the individual is what's most important.
Well yeah, individual rights, human rights, civil rights are important. If you don't like that you could move to a country run by a dictatorship.
Well yeah, individual rights, human rights, civil rights are important. If you don't like that you could move to a country run by a dictatorship.
Or you could wait--we may get one yet. :help:
All I'm saying is that there must be a better middle ground. Not a dictatorship, not a free-for-all. I wonder if all of this will lead to something that just HAS to take some things away from people, in order to work better. All the different groups.....race/religion/sexual orientation/political beliefs, etc., etc., etc., etc............it seems to be dividing us more than bringing us together.
From all that has transpired, it has been brought to Biden's attention. He appears to understand and be enlightened.
He appears to be making sorta-flat jokes about consent and touching today, so I'm not sure he quite understands.
ToomuchStuff
4-6-19, 1:47am
https://scontent-ort2-2.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/56492582_10214003991356136_8098348273275764736_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-2.xx&oh=c0bd4a3554f63282aec087c3d9b53f0d&oe=5D3B5CBC
Make America Grope Again?
gimmethesimplelife
4-6-19, 11:15am
Beyond any meaning of sexuality, I am often glad these days that I am gay.........I work in a visible high volume setting where I interact with roughly a 50/50 ratio of men/women. I have heard conversations of younger female temps as they arrive before they are let in and I've heard what seemed to me to be very small and innocent gestures being misinterpreted and I'm very grateful that I have the weapon of my sexual preference to offer some degree of immunity from such claims whereas most men don't have this unless they lie. I find myself very lucky for this in this day and age and after a youth of being bullied due to being gay, it's like a very valuable consolation prize while I remain in the United States.
My take on Joe Biden is that he is an older man who was socialized in a different era when innocent touching existed between men and women that had no sexual meaning. That time has come and gone but this in ingrained behavior and for some people, especially someone like him with money, it's hard to think in terms of survival and self preservation in any and all encounters with the opposite sex. I do find hope that there have been some women who have supported him and seem to have understood the beginning of my paragraph here.
Something that very much upsets me - and can anyone please explain to me why this is acceptable? - is that a female employee at a CVS recently answered some questions for me on the sales floor of a CVS and in a friendly, completely non-sexual manner, she touched my arm. Let's flip the script here. Suppose I had touched her arm in the same manner? In today's America, that's enough to land me in jail with a permanent criminal record. The reason any man should remain in America and accept this again was? I'm hearing crickets from society on this one and it's a good indication to me that society overall could care less about men. No wonder 70 percent of all men between the ages of 20 and 34 are unmarried today per USA Today recently. The playing field is just too unlevel, stacked against men, and too risky for men.
Not a day passes that I am not glad that I am gay due to some degree of immunity (though not complete) that such provides me from this aspect of society's insanity. A very funky concept for someone once brutally bullied for being gay, believe you me. That slogan/movement to try to prevent gay youth suicide, with the catchline that It Gets Better? Sometimes it does, but in the most bizarre and ironic of ways.......Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-6-19, 11:22am
Well trump certainly doesn’t understand the times even bragging about grapping women’s crotches. I just hope the Democrats run someone that can actually win.And I agree completely. One the one hand, my take is that many women have gone overboard with sensitivity to the tiniest of innocent comments - but here, in the case of Trump's infamous Grab'em comments - yes, this crosses the line, and I most certainly understand this. My question is this - why is the average man crucified but Trump gets a free pass on such comments, shoot, even elected to the highest elected post in the land after making such comments? But an average straight man could easily suffer loss of job, income, economic security, assets, reputation - need I go on?
My point is even application of the standard. Either let up on average men or crucify Trump - no exceptions or there is no true equality. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-6-19, 11:30am
I agree that everything in this country has gone too far, in one direction or the other. We're a country of spoiled whiners. And the founders of this country had no idea that what they were trying to do would lead to all this.
With their attempts to include everyone and give justice to everyone, we have become a country of so many required/demanded individual justices that it's hard to do so many things, in fear of offending SOMEONE. Yes, rape/sexual assault is unacceptable.....but who decides what all the other stuff is unacceptable? We're a circus, where every single performer is demanding their rights....whether those demands are reasonable or ridiculous. It's all totally out of hand.
In this country of so much freedom, we've learned that the individual is what's most important and we have learned that we have the right to be offended and demand something to fix it all, all the time. What a mess.Cathy A, liberal that I am - I agree with you. I believe various side groups - including the LGBT community and once in awhile, even my fellow 85006 residents (though mostly well meaning) go too damned far.......I find this the case with Feminism 3.0 and I also find this the case sometimes in my Men's Rights Movement participation - too many people are leaning towards the extreme these days.
This last sentence I find so interesting as I'm not completely unaware that there are those here and also in the real world beyond this board who find various beliefs/views I hold extreme. What's amazing to me is that I find other people's views extreme about issues other than those I tend to post on about here ad infinitum. My point is that it's possible for me as someone who is viewed as extreme in some parts to find others extreme. Just interesting to realize this is my point.
So what do we do about this as a society? A lot of Men's Rights Movement guys are all about sitting back with popcorn and watching society slowly collapse.....implication being there can be no change without some type of traumatic forced reset. Is that what will be required for society to snap out of this? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-6-19, 11:52am
Living in the southwest, there’s lots of hugging. Even from some coworkers. Being a boss, I work hard to never initiate it. But I allow a “side hug” if necessary. I’m naturally comfortable with it, but just want to be sensitive, as being the boss, it’s an important consideration.In my workplace, there is no hugging and any unnecessary touching is frowned upon. But it's also true that we are in different industries, that may play a part, too. Rob
Teacher Terry
4-6-19, 11:55am
I agree that things have gone overboard. So ridiculous when a innocent touch like you described could get you in trouble.
gimmethesimplelife
4-6-19, 12:06pm
I agree that things have gone overboard. So ridiculous when a innocent touch like you described could get you in trouble.Thank You, TT. Your post here gives me some hope. Thank You. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-6-19, 1:03pm
Other than a handshake I would never consider intentionally touching a coworker or other professional contact. The exception to that is if I am a friend outside of work circumstances with them. For instance the insurance broker I sometimes work with on accounts who has become a close enough friend that SO and I go to parties at her house a few times a year.
It's pretty much the same rule I follow regarding work compliments. Unless it's someone who is my friend outside the office the only compliments I will ever give are work related. "Great presentation this morning!" "Congratulations on winning the mega-corp account." That sort of thing. "Nice hairdo", or "love that dress" or, "damn Ben, those pants really fit your ass well" just aren't appropriate things to say in a work context.I agree, jp1. This is one thing that was difficult for me in my years of waiting tables - food and beverage really is a ground zero for sexual harassment - it truly is - and the type of common sense caution that you speak of in your second paragraph until very recently, other than in the most upscale of surroundings, has been disregarded - as if the business were a refuge from these rules of polite society. Lucky for me I'm an introvert and such behavior is alien to me, even on my own time and even in a gay context. Those are lines I am just not going to cross until I trust you - part is my rough past, part is my understanding of society from a young age, part is being an introvert. I came equipped with the common sense to not make inappropriate comments - though part of the problem is that what is considered inappropriate is broadening in reach with every passing day. But I'm with you - I'm never going to comment on any co-workers appearance or attire and almost all communication from me is going to be work related - even the compliments I pass out.
Case in point - we had an extremely, I mean extremely tight turn around last week between Side Hall keynote speakers, plating, and tear down/ set up. I was so amazed that the temp crew pulled it off that I called the temp office and asked if we could give the staff some kind of unexpected reward like gift cards - everyone working that shift was given a $25 giftcard to Best Buy and I and another supervisor held a brief Thank You meeting. That kind of complimentary behavior that builds morale I believe is safe. On the other hand, I would not feel safe singling out a specific employee for exceptional performance these days....not in my work environment. I love and respect myself and will pass on the insane risk this society insists I accept. I may not be able to change it, but I reject it by working around it. Rob
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