Willoughby...... [Archive] - Simple Living Forums

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 11:24am

Does anyone here remember the Twilight Zone episode about Wllioughby? I think the actual episode was entitled The Stop At Willoughby?

It's about a man who works in advertising and loses a big account. He is berated by his boss and goes home on the train to his wife who is devoid of any sympathy or compassion and is just in it for the money. The episode goes on to show more issues with his wife and his boss and interspersed with this the man is on the commuter train having fantasies about a train stop called Willoughby. At this stop life seems to be stuck in a time warp of a simpler life in the 1800's. The episode ends with the man stepping off the train when the stop of Willoughby is announced - to his death. At the end we the doors on the hearse carrying his body closing and on the doors reads - Willoughby and Sons.

This episode really moves me in so many ways. First there's the men's rights/pretty much lack of men's rights men are expected to face if employed at a certain level and married. Beyond that, there's a tie in to simple living in the sense that the wife's materialism is exposed for the soul crushing issue it truly is and how her materialism just makes a horrible situation even worse. There's also the is modern life worth this angle.

This episode was truly before it's time and I say bravo that it ever made it to the airwaves in the United States. It does starkly show much of what is wrong with both America and society and how both often harm men. I'd recommend this be required watching in public schools around the age of 8 - my experience is that was when I started questioning things. Rob

Teacher Terry

4-13-19, 12:08pm

Rob, I remember that well as it was creepy.

catherine

4-13-19, 12:33pm

I remember that episode. Great one. Rod Serling was such a genius.

Similarly, the Twilight Zone that made a huge impact on me as a child was Number 12 Looks Just Like You. That episode framed my view of beauty for my entire life. So, Rob, in the same way that Willoughby framed your view of what being a man is/should be like, "Number 12" framed my view of what it means to be a woman. I abhor the LA version of beauty, and even though we are 50 years closer to the world of "Number 12" because of the easy access to beauty-on-demand, I will never succumb to those values. I'd rather have the interesting face of a wise old elder than an ageless mask. I've earned my wrinkles.

Here is a 6 minute version of Number 12 Looks Just Like You.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7d6h3kaQs6g

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 1:14pm

ApatheticNoMore

4-13-19, 1:54pm

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 2:12pm

as you know you have a very odd interpretation of things. The longing for a simpler life yes, that seems to be what it is about, and it sounds good, and there is a cold wife. But the rest .. . in application to actual reality the only thought I had is: "I'm glad my boyfriend likes me even when I'm not rolling in dough, that he's nothing like that wife. I'm lucky for that". :~)Something I've learned as I get older - interpretation is in the eye of the beholder. In my circle, my take is not the slightest bit odd. In the 85006 my political views are run of the mill and in my Men's Rights activism my takes on these issues are not considered odd - not one iota.

Now let's flip the script - suppose I were to meet up with some ladies from my high school days - let's say the cheerleaders or the ones from money or the ones who were successful on their own (and there were a few such, granted here and now) - my take on male/female relations? Would not be likely especially well understood nor appreciated. Matter of fact, it was interesting to me that at my 30th High School Reunion, it was the men who were civil and kind to me - the ladies not so much, and in my high school days I was not a male rights activist - I was just trying to survive economically to the next day (but I was full of the activism that living such a way tends to generate, that much is true). I also refused to be someone I am not and I did not dress up for the reunion - I wore a nice, clean, and pleasantly but not overly faded pair of jeans (Lee jeans as I did not want to send any label messages of pretend status) and a generic blue button down shirt from a local thrift shop, along with secondhand shoes. But I will admit to wearing my best pair of secondhand shoes. Point is, I did notice several women from my past disregarding me with that certain look of disapproval though nothing directly unpleasant was said.

My guess? Past memories - I did stand up for myself in high school, you better believe it - not socially, but I was very much an economic activist even back then - combined with what these ladies considered inappropriate attire for such a function. I'm older now and see through society even more than I did then so I shot them their disapproving looks back and refused to be the first one to drop eye contact.

Further flipping the script - I could easily take a city bus and ride three miles north of me where I'd be in a neighborhood of an entirely different social class. I doubt that many of my takes about America would go over well in such an area - at least not publicly where people are forced to comply to society's "norm" in order to prevent suffering asset loss. But even up in that rarified area? My takes on the American Health Care Industry are creeping up the social ladder even to that level...….amazing but true. With the continued deterioration of US living standards for the bulk of the US population, I'd love to have this chat with you in ten to twenty years from now and see whether or not you'd consider my takes "odd" - but for the record I take no offense that you see my takes this way. Takes are in the eye of the beholder, tinged to some degree by personality, life experiences, whether a person has had a chance to travel and comparison shop, and by social class. I understand all of this. Rob

PS I came back to give an example of my activism in high school and what form it took. My Senior Year I was on the school paper and one day we basically had nothing to do as the current issue of the paper had gone to the printer and we had down time. I was trying to get a full time job at Montgomery Wards selling shoes and was using a typewriter in class to create a resume. The teacher went over to me and turned the typewriter off and said, very rudely - I did not say that you could use this.

To which I replied, Mrs. Poarch - A). I asked you yesterday if I could use a class typewriter to make a resume and you said yes since today was going to be downtime, B). I am not middle class nor upper middle class as the rest of this room is and I don't have access to a typewriter at home, and C). Would you like me to sign a referral note to the office here and now, and D). Certainly you are under no legal obligation to allow me to use this typewriter but it does smack of social class discrimination - in the sense that everyone else but I in this classroom has easy access to a typewriter. I am not of that social class and I don't see any reason I should suffer for it here. Can you give me one sane reason why America and yourself should deny me such access on a downtime day?

To her credit. though she became red faced and muttered under her breath, she did not escalate the issue, and to give her more credit, she seemed to let it go after that day. I am ultra perceptive to shifts in attitude and I never felt any attitude shift from her towards me after this day. Towards the end of my Senior Year I believe I discovered why. I stayed late one day working on the last edition of the paper when she broke off into a story of how she'd had her economic challenges in life too when she was young. Gotta say I really respected her after this, combined with the lack of perception shift most would dole out after my standing up to an instructor.

So I was a bit mouthy, yes, but really? Only when confronted with the fact that I was not middle class or higher and lacked access to much of what my classmates did not lack access to. I hope I've made myself clear here. I was not picketing and protesting then with signs and large groups - I was a one individual show. Rob

herbgeek

4-13-19, 2:59pm

First there's the men's rights/pretty much lack of men's rights men are expected to face if employed at a certain level and married.

Right. Because being a women in the 50's/early 60's was such a picnic. You want a career? Too bad, women belong in the kitchen. You have brains and ambition? Why can't you be content running this bake sale? You don't like/want to have children? Too bad, you get 3 or 4 whether you want them or not. Gave up your career to be married? Too bad your husband is banging his secretary. You'll just have to suck up your dignity, because you have no other options in life to support yourself.

JaneV2.0

4-13-19, 4:12pm

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 4:23pm

Right. Because being a women in the 50's/early 60's was such a picnic. You want a career? Too bad, women belong in the kitchen. You have brains and ambition? Why can't you be content running this bake sale? You don't like/want to have children? Too bad, you get 3 or 4 whether you want them or not. Gave up your career to be married? Too bad your husband is banging his secretary. You'll just have to suck up your dignity, because you have no other options in life to support yourself.I'm not saying you don't have a point here - you do. I grant you that here and now. And I don't support one iota that world where a woman did not have options. It's great that women have their own options, their own money, and their own power. I mean this. Are we so far on the same page?

Where we differ (I'm guessing?) is that I don't believe that a woman should be able to ruin a man's life via a false allegation - I'm for a ten year prison sentence in this case, regardless of gender - and yes, the few men that pull this deserve prison, too - but unlike women, in such cases, men are prosecuted. Women rarely are, hence the need for laws requiring prison. I'm not the slightest bit down with women being sentenced on average to 60% less time than a man for similar crimes. I'm not down with men losing 1/2 their stuff for cohabitating with a woman for too long - and the woman in question seeking payday (and yes, this happens every day all over America), and then moving on to the next man, attempting to pull the same while youth is on her side. I'm not down with men being imprisoned for being unable to pay child support through no fault of their own if losing a job, once again through no fault of their own such as in a layoff. WTH kind of country is this for allowing such to happen and why should ANY man ever father a child given such vulnerability?

Are you sensing a theme here? This autobahn goes two ways and men are getting fed up with the appalling vulnerability they face in the eyes of women and in the eyes of Family Courts and the law in general. Men are fed up with women hitting them and when they call the police, the police automatically arrest the man even though the man did nothing. WTH? Why would any man care to hold citizenship in a country where this is normal and widespread? Men are fed up with having no say in reproduction whatsoever - just the bills from such. Nope. Men are waking up and walking away.

It's true that in the Mad Men era you refer to that men held all the power. Now women do - and they are just as abusive with it as men were in the past - even more so, in my mind, as the games some women play can end in a criminal record for a man that is lifelong and completely undeserved as the conviction is often based on a lie - gee, sign me up for that vulnerability. What should scare women a bit is that men are waking up more and more to this every day and walking away from the whole rigged game. It really and truly is stacked against men now, much as the era you refer to was stacked against women. I still maintain that today's era is worse as there are women who have no hesitation at all in lying about a man and ruining his life with a bogus lifelong lifetime altering criminal conviction - and once discovered, such women face no consequences whatsoever. Seriously, I'd be all for women paying say 5% higher taxes for a fund for such male victims to be started for new lives in one of the many better countries, to put this country and this system that would do this to an innocent victim in these men's rear view mirror. Consider it a price tag of the ungodly awesome power women hold over men these days. \

Not kind words, no, but reality often is not kind and all I have to dish out on this topic is the male reality side of it. I could go on and on - there are many, many, many other legit grievances men hold towards women these days but I believe I've hit the main ones. And yes, I do believe that not all women are like this - the problem is is that any women can pull this at any time on a man and there is no way to know when or if it will happen. I'd never sign up for such vulnerability - the only positive I can see in this is the offhand chance of political asylum in another country to start over - but it won't be in a feminist first world country. Take Canada, Australia, Britain, Spain and Israel - the last two being the worst examples - these issues are even worse there. This is one of those rare cases when something awful is happening in the English speaking world and America is not the worst offender - Canada and Australia and England are even worse. A minor comfort but for how long will this last?

Now how do we solve this? I'm not seeing any way out other than a continued mass exodus of younger men from society and for some awful kind of societal reset. And then still there have been so many men burned that I'm not sure such would change this inevitable consequence of making male lives vulnerable to instant destruction with a simple 911 call and a lie. I'd say in this lifetime in the developed world it's game over, especially as things get worse over time in this area and more men just realize it's not worth it. But regardless, I'm still glad that women have their own power and their own money and their own trajectory in life - just get used to not sharing it with a life partner is my advice, though once again, I'm glad society has evolved to allow you not to be dependent on a man. Now we need society to evolve to where men's rights matter as much as your rights do. Case in point - why the uproar over breast cancer and the crickets on prostate cancer, hmmmmmm????? I've yet to hear of a woman who understood that prostate cancer is real and an issue and that such deserves merit and notice just as much as breast cancer does. Crickets from the opposite sex - do you really believe that men are not noticing this? Honestly, do women really believe men don't date and time stamp such affronts? My mind reels on this one, it really does. Rob

PS Came back to add - what really needs to happen is genuine equality between the sexes. The era you refer to was not one of equality, nor is this one. Until something remotely resembling equality arrives, and while men are still so appalling vulnerable to the opposite sex, expect more and more men to bail on traditional roles and I say more power to them, just as much as I say more power to successful women with their own money and their own trajectory. Rob

JaneV2.0

4-13-19, 4:29pm

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 4:35pm

I'm not sure where this disdain for women comes from--from you or from any man. It's not hard--or shouldn't be--to avoid "gold-digging" women, or women entirely, if you like. (Predatory women and predatory men often pair up, to the relief of most of us.) Clinging to a man for financial security was pretty much the only choice women had a few decades ago (as herbgeek pointed out). I've paid my own way ever since I became "woke" in my twenties. All or nothing thinking isn't productive, IMO.The problem is that not all women are like this, Jane, I will give you that here and now. But too many are and too many men have been burned for no sane or legal reason whatsoever. I know of nine just from my high school class and there are more in the same class that have too but they are not living locally and so do not participate in this group other than by email. What we need to do is to get rid of no fault divorce laws AND make it harder to marry in the first place.....it's too easy for a woman these days to feel "bored" or "unloved" and cash in on her marriage for 50% or more......for no real reason whatsoever. It happens every day all around this country to the great support of the Family Court System, The American Legal Industry, and The American Divorce Industry. Just because you are not a woman who would pull this and may have a hard time relating due to this does not mean it's not happening. It most certainly is. Things need to change or the marriage rates will continue their deep plunge and children will be the province of immigrants only and their children will not have kids once they Westernize - the risks for at least men are too great these days. The second generation will have learned this. Rob

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 4:54pm

And rape is widely unreported, and men kill their partners at terrifying rates. Life can be ugly and unfair. Nothing new there. But when you confine yourself to an echo chamber, I guess you don't hear any of that.

And I'm well aware that prostate cancer is a menace. I lost my SO to it just a year ago. You've yet to hear of a woman who knows that? You need to get out more.Jane, a serious question for you...when was the last time you heard of a well funded prostate cancer organization such as the Susan Kormen organization for breast cancer? When was the last time you heard of a march for prostate cancer or fundraising activities for prostate cancer? I don't mean to be rude or difficult here, I really don't. My answer is I'm not aware of the above any time recently. The problem is, this issue is not limited to only prostate cancer. Men's issues are swept under the rug routinely in America and the focus is much more on women - it's called gynocentrism. I'm down fully with women being completely 100% equal to men - equality in this one instance being either men get the same awareness in society of prostate cancer OR breast cancer becomes the trivial issue to society that prostate cancer has been relegated to. Pick one or the other.....that would be equality. What we have now is not - the fact that I can see this means nothing. What would worry me if I were female is that more and more men are waking up to this every day......and due to the Internet, men are much more able to converse amongst themselves regarding these realities than they used to be. Online there is no female control of who their male partner hangs around with and there is no way to manipulate a man with this message out of the partner's life - something I've heard that the women in the guy's lives in this group have all pulled. In other words, any hindrances to a man knowing/absorbing this are going to be much more someone's unwillingness to give up the pleasant fiction (social conditioning) they have been raised with. Rob

PS Men do kill more women than women kill men. Statistics will bear you out on this. Two points, however....women (at noticeably lower rates, admitted) do the same, and men are much, much, much, much, much less likely than women to lie - either to get a man fired from a job or to get a man arrested to get him out of her life and to make further legal proceedings against such a man much smoother for herself. All it takes is a landline, or a cell phone and a lie........the police auto believe a woman, even when there is evidence to the contrary right in front of them. Once again, scary for women, more and more men are waking up to this.

I don't advocate a return to the Mad Men era. I support genuine equality and not the cherry picked equality/actual non-equality for men that we have today. Rob

JaneV2.0

4-13-19, 4:56pm

As long as you associate with a bunch of misogynists sitting around awash in their own anger--justified or not--you'll miss the fact that there's plenty of "life isn't fair" stuff on either side.

ETA: The reason breast cancer has its own month is that it's a big, big money maker. Women are notoriously underrepresented in drug trials, untreated for heart issues, etc. As usual, there's another side to the story.

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 5:07pm

As long as you associate with a bunch of misogynists sitting around awash in their own anger--justified or not--you'll miss the fact that there's plenty of "life isn't fair" stuff on either side.Jane, with all due respect, I consider these gentlemen to some degree to be victims and I have yet to hear anything misogynistic coming from them. The facts of their lives, and the consequences these guys have had to endure springing forth from lies from women once in their lives - that is not misogyny. That is the brutal reality of the women these men had paired with. Now, it takes two to tango, this is true, and I'm not getting the female angle on this, that's true too. Some of these ladies struck so low in court - I can't see any realistic excuse for their behavior and that's not misogyny. That's me being a caring, compassionate person towards another suffering human being. In this case the sufferers in question are male - NEWS FLASH FOR SOCIETY AT LARGE - Yes, men suffer, too. And what might be getting scary for women - men are now seeing women as being a risk for future suffering or a cause of suffering overall - this does not bode well for heterosexual relationships going forward, and even though I don't bat on that team, I do understand that heterosexual relationships are necessary to produce the offspring for future generations.

I see the future becoming very funky for women, truth be told, as they are not going to get their Disney Prince Charming fantasy. Men will cope as men don't need social approval to the level women do and something I really do appreciate about being male applies here - one great advantage men have in life over women - men validate internally for the most part. It's true that some buy expensive watches or sports cars but most men? Validation is an internal concept. This is something I am very much grateful for. What this means in this case? Once the typical man wakes up to these issues, he's not going to care what anyone thinks of his being partner free or what anyone thinks of his life choices/how he deems fit to conduct his life. Such makes it easier for men to be alone. Rob

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 5:35pm

Something else I'm going to bring up that absolutely stuns me regarding male/female relations in the workplace......granted this is a sense I'm getting online and not so much IRL so I won't hold as fast to what I am about to post. My sense is that women in general (and I've run across exceptions to this online so yes, I know they do exist)...I'm talking flat average here - seem to be very taken aback with the consequences of the metoo movement. In other words, men refusing to talk to women in the workplace other than for work related reasons and then as briefly as possible (forget any office geniality or warmth, consider this Gone With the MeTooMovement)...women seem surprised that men will not get into an elevator with them, that they insist on not being seated next to a woman on a business trip, that men will not meet with them informally for an (innocent and business related) drink/convo outside of work. Forget any mentoring, that went Gone With The MeTooMovement, too.

I've read of some women online unhappy with the MeToo Movement having ever taken place as their perception is that metoo cemented the glass ceiling for them as they can't really access male higher ups (I'm talking strictly for business reasons here) and believe their probability of being promoted is now less due to Senior Level people never even knowing who they are, due to fear of affiliation/association with said woman in the workplace.

I can honestly say that I've cut back on workplace warmth myself and though the women I work with in management are professional, I keep things short and sweet and work related and have become quite skilled at deflecting any personal questions back to work related issues. The few times this has not worked I've civilly stated that this is a place of work and I'm not comfortable speaking of non work related matters here. I've also called the temp office's corporate office hq in LA and told them of the incident - just to protect myself. It's also smart to be the first one to call HR - this is not a male way of handling this, I'll grant that, but.....what works, works. Men who have called HR first are much more likely to save their job, either via thinly veiled insinuations of litigation or just via having the audacity to care about themselves and respect themselves enough to do so.

Women who have lied about men and then men who have proof of a female co-workers lies via a recording device - genuinely seem STUNNED that a man would pull this - literally as if a man's livelihood and if it is to continue is 100% up to the same level female employee that lied to begin with. Seriously, I've read of several women online that seem to be of the mind that it's OK for her to lie but it's not OK for the man to protect himself and expose her lie(s). And then women wonder why more and more men are going mgtow.......the mind reels, at least mine does, on this one.

And then what of the women that are not like this? Many men's rights activists believe all women are like this but I don't. Much as not all men would engage in domestic violence, not all women are going to stoop to such behavior. The problem here? There are no real checks and balances on a woman pulling this as society stands today and women know this. It is entirely up to an individual woman if she will pull these games or not - some will, some won't. Under these conditions, men are going to be thinking in terms of self preservation and economic survival. Thank metoo for this - though I'd also agree once again I advocate in no way for a return to women not having their own money and their own power.......I'm all about true equality and legal checks and balances (and consequences) for women who do indeed stoop to this behavior.

One last thing - ironically enough, gay men at the onset were the co-creators of this movement. Some names to google if interested - Jack Donovan of Portland, Oregon, and Milo (his last name is Greek and starts with a Y and he's very much a symbol of the movement). Funky. I would likely never have gotten involved in this if I hadn't met up with these guys from my past and heard their stories. I don't feel very good about this fact but it is what it is. I'm doing what little I can as always, you know? This is not my only cause but it is gaining in importance to me. Rob

catherine

4-13-19, 5:36pm

I see the future becoming very funky for women, truth be told, as they are not going to get their Disney Prince Charming fantasy.

This doesn't compute for me. I know that there are gold-diggers or whatever, but the days are long gone when women had to marry in order to have financial security. Many (maybe most) states have 50/50 property rights in the case of divorce, and if you don't like it, don't marry. There is no Prince Charming. The women in my circles know that. I, like Jane, have prized my independence, and too often both men and women enter into marriages with blinders on. Both men and women can be burned, but that's life.

JaneV2.0

4-13-19, 5:53pm

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 5:59pm

This doesn't compute for me. I know that there are gold-diggers or whatever, but the days are long gone when women had to marry in order to have financial security. Many (maybe most) states have 50/50 property rights in the case of divorce, and if you don't like it, don't marry. There is no Prince Charming. The women in my circles know that. I, like Jane, have prized my independence, and too often both men and women enter into marriages with blinders on. Both men and women can be burned, but that's life.This may be due to being older and having life experience under our belts......I know as a gay man there is no Prince Charming and I also believe that you know there is no such man, too. The problem then? As I see it part of the problem is the feminized education system in America and the girl power thing of the 90's and how in general, public education in America is geared towards female learning styles and not male learning styles (should the balance of power ever shift between men and women in this country in our lifetimes, I'm just waiting for the hundreds of thousands of lawsuits surrounding this issue)......young girls were treated as if princesses and told they could have it all and who can blame them, really, and I do mean this.....who can blame them for expecting a Prince Charming after being preferred in the educational system for years and held up as an example to follow? Who can blame them for expecting the sun and the moon when they were told all along the way they could have it all and that men were their enemies to some degree, standing in their way?

I'd also like to state that I am not a misogynist (though unfortunately, many women are not going to agree with me here.....just standing up for men in general is enough to be branded with this word these days and I'm starting to consider it a compliment....not the word itself but the fact that often when I have been called this I have known inside 100% that my heart was in the right place). I am no enemy to women. I don't wish to have them barefoot and pregnant in any room of any house. I don't begrudge women their progress the past 50 years. So, what's the problem, you ask? Things currently are NOT equal and this is very much at the expense of men. I have issues with that and if that makes me misogynistic, I'll go and have the t shirt made up and wear it proudly.....men too are worth equality. This street goes two ways.

But I also very much agree with your last sentence, Catherine. Both men and women can be burned, and such is life. It's just that currently the deck is stacked against men at the preference of women (go to any Family Court proceeding in the United States any day such a court is open and see for yourself)...the deck is stacked against men in the Western World much like the deck is stacked against the American worker.

I also believe most men other than true misogynists (a word that has really been cheapened with it's being hurled at men to whom the word does not realistically apply) men in general would not want women to go back to the 1950's, nor be subservient or dependent on them. Men just are sick of being blamed for everything, they are tired of fear of false allegations/hypersensitivity to the most innocent of comments, they are sick of getting the bad end of the deal in divorces (called frivorces these days if any ladies here are not yet familiar with the term)....they are just sick of the appalling vulnerability that they face these days in terms of dealings with the opposite sex.

Here's a way to put it that maybe ladies can understand......women overall became sick in the 60's and 70's of the appalling vulnerability they faced from men and the feminist movement with it's progress in women's rights was launched. Hooray and I don't mean this snarkily. Ladies, here's the rub. Whether you agree with this or not, many men today feel they face appalling vulnerability from women. Are we not worth the right to a movement the same as you were? AND IF YOUR ANSWER IS NO - please explain to me - and every other American male btw - your definition of equality....if your answer is no, the world is not going to end and the sun will rise and bills in your name will still come that need to be paid.......but don't be surprised that further alienation of the opposite sex is the result. Rob

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 6:01pm

I wonder how receptive most men would be to the infantilization that comes with the Komen Foundation and their much-ballyhooed "cancer cures." I think not much. My beloved wouldn't have given a second look to such a thing. BTW, I believe it was a new, untested drug that ultimately took his life; be careful what you wish for.

Milo Y is a persona non grata nearly everywhere on earth at this point. Like many of his ilk, he seems to have unlimited amounts of hatred to spread around.

You have considerable passion; the world would be a better place if you'd find a positive outlet for it.Jane, breaking free from this serious discussion for a moment...if I may. Thank You for your compliment here. That was very kind of you, especially in light of the controversial topic we are discussing. Rob

JaneV2.0

4-13-19, 6:14pm

...But zealots can be insufferable...:~)

My mother always thought Ralph Nader would be a good match for me (why do you hate me, Mom?)

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 6:18pm

...But zealots can be insufferable...:~)

My mother always thought Ralph Nader would be a good match for me (why do you hate me, Mom?)Ralph Nader? Was he over the top in some way? I'm familiar with the name, wasn't he the one who wrote about the Chevrolet Corvair being unsafe at any speed? Sort of like a consumer rights advocate, something along the lines of the role I fill online at times - of course I don't have the household name and cachet that the Ralph Nader name does. I remember when Ross Perot was running for President there was some mention of Ralph Nader's name but I don't remember the context.....Rob

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 6:20pm

I wonder how receptive most men would be to the infantilization that comes with the Komen Foundation and their much-ballyhooed "cancer cures." I think not much. My beloved wouldn't have given a second look to such a thing. BTW, I believe it was a new, untested drug that ultimately took his life; be careful what you wish for.

Milo Y is a persona non grata nearly everywhere on earth at this point. Like many of his ilk, he seems to have unlimited amounts of hatred to spread around.

You have considerable passion; the world would be a better place if you'd find a positive outlet for it.I've heard that Milo still has audiences eager to listen to him, but has been banned from other arenas, so yes, he's not welcome everywhere. He has a controversial message - as far as I am concerned, this is to be expected, especially in a liberal academic setting. Rob

PS For what's it's worth, I'm sorry about the loss of your SO. That sucks......Rob

JaneV2.0

4-13-19, 6:32pm

...

PS For what's it's worth, I'm sorry about the loss of your SO. That sucks......Rob

I scold him every day for leaving me alone, but he lived a long life and he's out of the clutches of doctors and diseases now.

He paid alimony for many years; he could have been a bitter man. But what would have been the point? Besides, he had me. :~)

Ralph Nader was a passionate, dedicated consumer advocate. Ross Perot was a politician my parents voted for.

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 6:36pm

gimmethesimplelife

4-13-19, 6:42pm

I scold him every day for leaving me alone, but he lived a long life and he's out of the clutches of doctors and diseases now.

He paid alimony for many years; he could have been a bitter man. But what would have been the point? Besides, he had me. :~)

Ralph Nader was a passionate, dedicated consumer advocate. Ross Perot was a politician my parents voted for.That's a very beautiful take on his death. I mean this - very human, very humane, very mature. I can see your point, too. When the friend of my family, John Kuo, passed in 2012 it was hard for me. He is someone who'd always been so kind to both me and my Mother and he had late stage Parkinson's along with other health issues including dementia.....he was definitely in the clutches of doctors and diseases as you say. It took me a few years but I came to understand that he had a fairly long life and was free of doctors and diseases with his passing. And I hope this doesn't sound horrible, but if he had to go I'm glad it was a massive stroke. I'm told it was quick and painless. I still remember the day I got the call from the assisted living center regarding his stroke - I didn't have insurance at the time and was on a Greyhound going 75 MPH towards Calexico, California to cross the border into Mexicali for an affordable ultrasound. Unable to be on the ground in Phoenix being of comfort or assistance for what needed to be done. But once again, I'm glad he's free of doctors and diseases like your SO is now. Rob

JaneV2.0

4-13-19, 7:09pm

Jane, again not to change the subject, but I noticed your use of was - past tense - in the case of both Ralph Nader and Ross Perot. So I googled. Both men are in their 80's and still with us on this rock we call Earth. I'm going to guess both are mostly retired and out of the public sphere, but both are indeed still with us. Rob

I was thinking they were retired from public life. I'm happy they're still kicking.

ApatheticNoMore

4-14-19, 1:52am

Ralph Nader is not retired from public life, he has a radio show. And this at 85.

---

As for women the things they are said to want could not even exist in the same person, women alternatively want Prince Charming, and also can not stand being single and are absolutely desperate not to be. May as well just drop the generalizations altogether at this point.

Once the typical man wakes up to these issues, he's not going to care what anyone thinks of his being partner free or what anyone thinks of his life choices/how he deems fit to conduct his life. Such makes it easier for men to be alone.

I've always lived by this, otoh many people have a lot of pressure from family etc. (which can be loving, but can get too much, family pressures may be entirely selfish - if all they care about is grandchildren or something - which noone is owed, but are often with a persons welfare in mind).

herbgeek

4-14-19, 9:43am

You have considerable passion; the world would be a better place if you'd find a positive outlet for it.

This.

How does adopting someone else's anger and outrage make your life better or the world better? Are you adopting this anger just so you can be accepted by these old high school acquaintances? If you didn't share their outrage, would they still be "nice" to you? I fail to see how a bunch of bitter men complaining about how they got screwed over by their ex wives is "activism."

Everyone has their hurts in life, no one is exempt. One side doesn't have it better. Have you ever heard someone with a grievance acknowledge that they too contributed to the situation? I bet never. You only hear how wronged they were.

There's a lot of unfairness in the world, in this country and in your neighborhood. Just stewing in hatred and bitterness does nothing positive.

JaneV2.0

4-14-19, 10:55am

I've considered myself a feminist since I first heard the term. There are many "flavors" of feminism extant; one of them is "victim feminism" (which I suspect is not what adherents themselves call it.) This flavor serves its purpose, which is to get people riled up and active in fighting perceived--often real-- injustices. I see victim feminists as analogous to men's rights advocates--doing important work, but not a group I'd care to be associated with.

Like many women, I've been groped, insulted, cat-called, assaulted, ignored, condescended to, etc. But I can't imagine forming my identity around victimhood, nor sitting around recounting my grievances ad nauseum. Like herbgeek said, there's plenty of hurt to go around, if that's what you want to marinate in, but doing so is unlikely to make you a better or happier person.

iris lilies

4-14-19, 11:03am

...But I can't imagine forming my identity around victimhood, nor sitting around recounting my grievances ad nauseum. Like herbgeek said, there's plenty of hurt to go around, if that's what you want to marinate in, but doing so is unlikely to make you a better or happier person.

I dont think you understand the Rob is sacrificing his happiness and personal betterment on the alter of Truth Telling. We should be thankful for his “activism” because he means it for our own good.

JaneV2.0

4-14-19, 11:16am

iris lilies

4-14-19, 11:24am

You're a wee bit more cynical than I am. :devil:

Just more tired of nonsensical blathering on exaggerated random issues.

I would like to know more about the situation of Rob’s friends who moved to Nogales Arizona in a ? hoped-for interaction with police (did I get that right?) but that is just so WTF that even a subReddit snark site wouldn't accept it as legit content, it so I dont think I can believe it.

Teacher Terry

4-14-19, 11:46am

I agree with IL. We all have issues and problems. The world is not perfect and fair. That’s called life.

bae

4-14-19, 1:21pm

Just more tired of nonsensical blathering on exaggerated random issues.

I'm pretty much convinced at this point that the whole persona is some sort of performance art project.

Alan

4-14-19, 2:33pm

I would like to know more about the situation of Rob’s friends who moved to Nogales Arizona in a ? hoped-for interaction with police (did I get that right?) but that is just so WTF that even a subReddit snark site wouldn't accept it as legit content, it so I dont think I can believe it.I agree. There may be goofier 'get rich quick' schemes out there, but I can't think of one.

Teacher Terry

4-14-19, 2:35pm

It’s highly unethical. Ugh!

gimmethesimplelife

4-14-19, 6:12pm

It’s highly unethical. Ugh!I'd agree with you here, TT. This is unethical....but then again so is some of the finer police behavior we have the privilege of seeing from time to time on the news. You could say two wrongs don't make a right and I'd say you have a point, but I do understand why these people think this way and why they moved there. As a side note, they are really loving the climate - it's that wonderful zone 10 in Sunset's Western Garden Guide - Arizona and New Mexico deserts between 3,500 and 5,000 or so feet. A little snow most years, killing frosts, and shorter and less brutal summers, though quite toasty regardless. And nights that cool into the 60's in the height of Summer. And I'm digressing. They love the climate and the proximity to various lower costs in Mexico but no settlement yet it seems........Rob

gimmethesimplelife

4-14-19, 6:16pm

I dont think you understand the Rob is sacrificing his happiness and personal betterment on the alter of Truth Telling. We should be thankful for his “activism” because he means it for our own good.IL, I can't change the world or human nature....this much is true. All I am doing is what little I can. No one says you have to join me or agree with me.....but judge me for doing what little I can? No snark here, OK? To me judging me for doing what little I can do is just as far out there as I perceive you to find me at times, based on your responses to various posts of mine over the years. Once again, you don't have to pat me on the back or agree with me - but truly, there is nothing wrong in my doing what little I can do in the world. Rob

gimmethesimplelife

4-14-19, 6:16pm

I'm pretty much convinced at this point that the whole persona is some sort of performance art project.To which I repeat my response to IL in the above post. Rob

LDAHL

4-15-19, 7:38pm

Not to distract from the critique of Rob’s social philosophy, but I always thought Willoughby was an allegory about suicide.