View Full Version : New Border Drama.....And It's Bad
gimmethesimplelife
4-21-19, 12:14am
Got off the phone awhile ago with one of my neighbors who alerted me to the following: In New Mexico, on the Mexican border facing New Mexico, there is a right wing militia group that has been illegally detaining migrants seeking to enter the US and try their luck at an asylum claim.
I checked online before posting here as I did not want to believe this - even with how I feel about this country I did not want to believe this. Apparently it's true. Goes against EVERYTHING this country once stood for (as at least was reputed to stand for).....to me this is major social breakdown personified. Will be interesting to see how this is spinned going forward and if this is allowed to continue. Online I have already read that Mexico is expressing concern. Yet another border issue, the price of avocados may skyrocket further (up to .69 each today at Food City, a Hispanic Supermarket chain in Arizona). Rob
iris lilies
4-21-19, 1:01am
Well that seals it, the price of avocados going up means it is really bad. Bad!
Well that seals it, the price of avocados going up means it is really bad. Bad!
No its the vigilante "justice" which is really bad. ie Detaining people at gunpoint when you aren't a law enforcement officer.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/18/us/new-mexico-militia.html?rref=collection%2Fbyline%2Fsimon-romero&action=click&contentCollection=undefined®ion=stream&module=inline&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collection
dado potato
4-21-19, 8:10am
The FBI has arrested Larry Mitchell Hopkins, 69 on charges of possession of firearms by a felon. In 2006 he was convicted on similar charges. He leads a group who derive some satisfaction from wearing camo, carrying semi-automatic rifles, and "detaining" illegal immigrants near the southern border. The US Customs and Border Protection officially deny that they work with any militia or vigilante organization. But Hopkins claims that his group has detained and handed people over to CBP officers. He has argued that it is not kidnapping, because the people he detained were in the US illegally.
He has not been charged with kidnapping.
gimmethesimplelife
4-21-19, 9:23am
No its the vigilante "justice" which is really bad. ie Detaining people at gunpoint when you aren't a law enforcement officer.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/04/18/us/new-mexico-militia.html?rref=collection%2Fbyline%2Fsimon-romero&action=click&contentCollection=undefined®ion=stream&module=inline&version=latest&contentPlacement=1&pgtype=collectionThank You, Herbgeek, for understanding my point. Vigilante justice scares me - even if my neighbors in my infamous zip code were to pull it I'd be scared. The whole concept reeks to me of society completely falling apart. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-21-19, 9:25am
The FBI has arrested Larry Mitchell Hopkins, 69 on charges of possession of firearms by a felon. In 2006 he was convicted on similar charges. He leads a group who derive some satisfaction from wearing camo, carrying semi-automatic rifles, and "detaining" illegal immigrants near the southern border. The US Customs and Border Protection officially deny that they work with any militia or vigilante organization. But Hopkins claims that his group has detained and handed people over to CBP officers. He has argued that it is not kidnapping, because the people he detained were in the US illegally.
He has not been charged with kidnapping.I just read of Hopkin's arrest by the FBI. I hope this calms things down but we'll see. I'm guessing (?) these kinds of groups have contingency plans in case should something happen to the leader so we'll see. For the record, this is one arrest by law enforcement that I very much support. Rob
I have heard about this, It did look credible and scary as f**. I think that even if we change laws or get different lawmakers at this point we are looking at a future with a lot of violence.
gimmethesimplelife
4-21-19, 10:39am
I have heard about this, It did look credible and scary as f**. I think that even if we change laws or get different lawmakers at this point we are looking at a future with a lot of violence.ZG, this is my worry for the Borderlands, too. I don't know the whole Borderland area but parts of the Arizona border over 4,000 ft in altitude are beautiful in their own way though I also know both sides of the border are corrupt - that said, on both sides of the border you will find some of the most interesting people living authentic lives - it's as if the drama of living in an unpredictable area gives people permission to be more authentic.
At any rate, I agree ZG. I too see a border that is more violent in our future. I wish we could time travel back to the border of the 80's - a much saner time and place. Rob
Teacher Terry
4-21-19, 11:49am
They should arrest everyone in that militia group. That’s terrible.
ToomuchStuff
4-21-19, 12:32pm
The FBI has arrested Larry Mitchell Hopkins, 69 on charges of possession of firearms by a felon. In 2006 he was convicted on similar charges.
That is the chargeable offense. Without any LEO witnesses, you otherwise have a he said they said situation, with someone trespassing on private property, against a bunch of individuals exercising their second amendment rights and defending themselves and their property, and turning the aggressor over to the proper authorities. (that would be the argument)
gimmethesimplelife
4-21-19, 1:32pm
They should arrest everyone in that militia group. That’s terrible.I agree with both of your statements here, definitely. Rob
Yet another border issue, the price of avocados may skyrocket further (up to .69 each today at Food City, a Hispanic Supermarket chain in Arizona). Rob
Well, up here on The Other Border, large avocados were $4.59/each, and small ones $2.59/each at the grocery store yesterday.
gimmethesimplelife
4-21-19, 1:47pm
Well, up here on The Other Border, large avocados were $4.59/each, and small ones $2.59/each at the grocery store yesterday.Crazy......someone at a Food City in the 85008 (one zip code over going East) told me that avocados were that expensive in most of the US - not in Phoenix since we are so close to the border to begin with and because avocados are a bit of a loss leader in Hispanic supermarkets to begin with. But yeah, I've had people in other parts of the country tell me to be grateful for the food prices I face here - notably less than in other parts of the US. Rob
PS....true story. Before the recent Trump threats to seal the border indefinitely, avocados at Food City frequently were 4 for .99 on Wednesdays, their produce specials day. So that .69 each now? Compared to much of the US this is cheap, yes....compared to recent Phoenix pricing history, it's not cheap.......Rob
This "militia" detaining people:
What are the circumstances? Where are they operating? (Public lands, their own private land, someone else's private land, ...?) What are they detaining the people for, precisely.
Here in my state, I can use force to detain trespassers until law enforcement arrives, but only on my own land. I can use force to stop certain types of criminal acts in-progress. And a few other cases allow use of force, or detention of others. But it's pretty specific.
So what are the specifics here? Yahoos on federal lands acting out a militia fantasy? A farmer and his friends on his own land?
bae, whose land it was on hasn't been reported yet (or I haven't seen) True, invited guests can walk around private property and hold trespassers until law enforcement gets there. So far, I think they've only charged the leader with illegal possession of a firearm (since he's a felon and isn't supposed to own guns). He's already claiming all the many guns found at his home belong to his common-law wife, not him (so you can see this group is prepared to be argumentative and slippery) It's also come out that he's been arrested for this same thing before, and that he has boasted about training people to assassinate Obama and Hillary Clinton (obviously, he didn't train them very well).
ToomuchStuff
4-23-19, 12:56pm
I saw the news story today, where they titled it one thing, that was completely different from what they are reporting. Part of the reason people think fake news.
(since he's a felon and isn't supposed to own guns). He's already claiming all the many guns found at his home belong to his common-law wife, not him (so you can see this group is prepared to be argumentative and slippery)
Or they are stating a fact. I have a friend who is a felon (DUI), whose wife and granddaughter have his fathers rifles in the house until the granddaughter is an adult and on her own. His siblings are LEO's.
Then felons can go through procedures to get their gun rights restored. Not all succeed or get in trouble for felon in possession either (see Mark Wahlberg)
Or they are stating a fact. I have a friend who is a felon (DUI), whose wife and granddaughter have his fathers rifles in the house until the granddaughter is an adult and on her own. His siblings are LEO's.
If the felon has access to the firearms in a home, then it is considered possession, and it is a no-no.
ToomuchStuff
4-24-19, 12:46am
If the felon has access to the firearms in a home, then it is considered possession, and it is a no-no.
Locked up, but realistically, it wouldn't take any time to defeat a lock/safe, etc.
dado potato
4-24-19, 12:36pm
On Tuesday, April 23, Hopkins was beaten (presumably by other inmates) while he was in custody in the Dona Ana County Detention Center, Las Cruces, NM. He was hospitalized with injuries including broken ribs.
On Tuesday, April 23, Hopkins was beaten (presumably by other inmates) while he was in custody in the Dona Ana County Detention Center, Las Cruces, NM. He was hospitalized with injuries including broken ribs.
That will probably be the extent of his punishment.
iris lilies
4-24-19, 1:26pm
On Tuesday, April 23, Hopkins was beaten (presumably by other inmates) while he was in custody in the Dona Ana County Detention Center, Las Cruces, NM. He was hospitalized with injuries including broken ribs.
Yet more vigilante justice! Should make Rob happy. Jane likes it.
Yet more vigilante justice! Should make Rob happy. Jane likes it.
Violence isn't the answer--it brings us down to their level.
I would prefer a nice long prison sentence for him and all his brethren.
Now that the better half of me has weighed in, I can't say I've shed many tears for Mr. Hopkins...
Yet more vigilante justice
It is ironic. Shoe on the other foot and all.
I would prefer a nice long prison sentence for him and all his brethren.As punishment for any particular charge or just because?
As punishment for any particular charge or just because?
Kidnapping, impersonating an officer...The FBI has charged him as a felon in possession of firearms. That seems like an OK start.
Kidnapping, impersonating an officer...The FBI has charged him as a felon in possession of firearms. That seems like an OK start.
What is the typical sentence length for felon-in-possession-of-firearm?
Ah, here we go:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Quick_Facts_Felon_in_Possession_of_a_Firearm.pdf
Kidnapping, impersonating an officer...The FBI has charged him as a felon in possession of firearms. That seems like an OK start.I think that if they could have made a case for the first two, they would have. I know it's still hard to make a case against people guilty of thoughtcrime, but it's getting easier so there's that, otherwise they could have picked up "his brethren" as well. For now you're probably right, charging him with everything they possibly can is an OK start and we can quickly get him into joycamp while we work on those elements of prolefeed which will eventually enable some plusgood crimestop for the benefit of us all.
iris lilies
4-24-19, 4:45pm
What is the typical sentence length for felon-in-possession-of-firearm?
Ah, here we go:
https://www.ussc.gov/sites/default/files/pdf/research-and-publications/quick-facts/Quick_Facts_Felon_in_Possession_of_a_Firearm.pdf
The average sentence is 75 months so maybe he will be in for a long while.
It's more than a thought crime when you leave your home and camp out on the border with the sole purpose of harassing/subjugating helpless migrants and asylum seekers, holding children and families at gunpoint. I don't know what took the feds so long to act. Thank heavens for the ACLU.
If there's any justice in the world, he'll spend his retirement years in the Big House.
Teacher Terry
4-24-19, 6:12pm
I won’t be shedding any tears for that jerk either.
I won’t be shedding any tears for that jerk either.
It's ok not to like someone. What bothers me is the desire to see someone sent to jail for long periods of time because you don't like them. That's scary.
It's ok not to like someone. What bothers me is the desire to see someone sent to jail for long periods of time because you don't like them. That's scary.
Or to see someone " beaten (presumably by other inmates) while he was in custody in the Dona Ana County Detention Center, Las Cruces, NM. He was hospitalized with injuries including broken ribs."
Or to see someone " beaten (presumably by other inmates) while he was in custody in the Dona Ana County Detention Center, Las Cruces, NM. He was hospitalized with injuries including broken ribs."
I've always believed that if you scratch an empathetic liberal you'll expose a violent fascist, and sometimes if you're patient, they'll expose themselves.
Teacher Terry
4-24-19, 8:26pm
Sorry but they are getting the consequences of involving themselves in law enforcement business.
gimmethesimplelife
4-24-19, 8:54pm
Violence isn't the answer--it brings us down to their level.
I would prefer a nice long prison sentence for him and all his brethren.Agreed 100% plus with everything you've posted here, Jane. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-24-19, 8:57pm
Yet more vigilante justice! Should make Rob happy. Jane likes it.Wait, IL? Did you catch that? This thread was about vigilante "justice" to begin with.....I thought I had made it crystal clear that I was against such here. And now that apparently Hopkins has been beaten in custody - you think I'm ok with that? Remember what they said in the 70's? Far out there. Just an observation - I realize there are those here who consider myself far out there and on more than one occasion, too. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-24-19, 8:59pm
Kidnapping, impersonating an officer...The FBI has charged him as a felon in possession of firearms. That seems like an OK start.Works for me. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-24-19, 9:00pm
I've always believed that if you scratch an empathetic liberal you'll expose a violent fascist, and sometimes if you're patient, they'll expose themselves.No Fascist here. Just a Democratic Socialist. Rob
dado potato
4-24-19, 9:14pm
When I posted what I thought were facts about Hopkins being injured while in custody, I did not intend to advance any dogma. The original post was concerned with how bad things were getting at the border. I intended to relate a fact or two, embellishing on the theme that very bad things are happening in that part of our country.
I was exercising my freedom of speech.
While I despise name-calling, I believe in freedom speech for all. I would defend to my dying breath anyone's freedom to call some "liberal" a "violent fascist".
gimmethesimplelife
4-24-19, 10:19pm
Sorry but they are getting the consequences of involving themselves in law enforcement business.Agreed wholeheartedly. I have no sympathy but I'm still not down with Hopkins being beaten while in custody. No tears, no sympathy per se but I still don't believe it's right that he was beaten. Would it not be ironic if due to this beating he was able to sue his way into a huge settlement? Such would not surprise me these days. Rob
I've always believed that if you scratch an empathetic liberal you'll expose a violent fascist, and sometimes if you're patient, they'll expose themselves.
Ha! Project much?
During my brief singing career (long story), we used to perform Pete Seeger's Guantanamera, including the line "Con los pobres de la tierra, quiero yo mi suerte echar." As an impoverished student, my thought was always "Not me!" But I've long since grown to agree. As much as I can, I stand on the side of the side of the oppressed, the marginalized, and the bullied.
Hopkins and his ilk are bullies. He has a lengthy record of being a felon and a scofflaw. He's on the lam from a sentence in Washington. His militia organization was training to assassinate various Democratic figures. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/militia-leader-larry-hopkins-allegedly-told-fbi-they-were-training-to-assassinate-barack-obama-hillary-clinton/ I hope we still have the rule of law in this country, and I hope it will prevail here. Even with getting a couple of ribs broken, Hopkins is being treated better than the asylum seekers he tormented, and better than he deserves, IMO.
iris lilies
4-25-19, 10:23am
Ha! Project much?
During my brief singing career (long story), we used to perform Pete Seeger's Guantanamera, including the line "Con los pobres de la tierra, quiero yo mi suerte echar." As an impoverished student, my thought was always "Not me!" But I've long since grown to agree. As much as I can, I stand on the side of the side of the oppressed, the marginalized, and the bullied.
Hopkins and his ilk are bullies. He has a lengthy record of being a felon and a scofflaw. He's on the lam from a sentence in Washington. His militia organization was training to assassinate various Democratic figures. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/militia-leader-larry-hopkins-allegedly-told-fbi-they-were-training-to-assassinate-barack-obama-hillary-clinton/ I hope we still have the rule of law in this country, and I hope it will prevail here. Even with getting a couple of ribs broken, Hopkins is being treated better than the asylum seekers he tormented, and better than he deserves, IMO.
I am not going to defend this Hopkins character in any way since the little I know about him – gleaned here on this site – shows him to be indefensible. But he gets his day in court and will be processed through the law as civilized people do. Every outcome of the law makes someone unhappy anyway.
Teacher Terry
4-25-19, 10:58am
In reading the article the militia was on someone else’s land who gave them to the end of the week to get out. So they are not defending their own land and are just plain bullies. I hope they prosecute them all.
Ha! Project much? I don't think so.
I'm a guy who evaluates every input by tone and by facts, which are often at odds with each other. In the original article posted in support of this thread, the tone said one thing and the facts outlined said another. The facts said that all immigrants entering the country illegally immediately searched for authorities to turn themselves over to and that the "militia" members assisted in this effort by gathering them up and calling for authorities to respond, while implying that this was done in a scary manner.
Of course it also indicated that special interest groups choose to present these actions as illegal and mean spirited, while also noting that law enforcement has not chosen to press charges for the allegedly illegal aspects. When that happens, there's usually a reason and it's almost always because they can't make the case the special interest groups demand.
So, that leaves us with the likelihood that nothing illegal has transpired although the same media reports that breathlessly set the tone have stirred up anger and resentment which make others want to lock them all up regardless of provable charges, and if someone gets seriously hurt in the process, well they brought it on themselves for pissing us off.
When those who demand rough justice based upon their feelings take over, I sure hope there remains some form of checks and balances on their ability to actually follow through.
A Boston area judge and court officer have been charged by the feds with obstruction of justice for helping an illegal immigrant charge elude ICE arrest.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/boston-area-judge-charged-helping-undocumented-immigrant-out-courthouse-elude-n998546
The illegal immigrant was in court for drug charges.
So, Rob, do you approve of what the judge did or not?
gimmethesimplelife
4-25-19, 6:11pm
A Boston area judge and court officer have been charged by the feds with obstruction of justice for helping an illegal immigrant charge elude ICE arrest.
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/crime-courts/boston-area-judge-charged-helping-undocumented-immigrant-out-courthouse-elude-n998546
The illegal immigrant was in court for drug charges.
So, Rob, do you approve of what the judge did or not?Tradd, Hi! Hard question and Thank You for making me think. At the moment I'm 50/50 on this one. I see it as both right and wrong in equal amounts what the judge did and I don't think he should face any charges, too me that's going too far. THAT SAID HOWEVER.....here's a surprise for you Conservatives.....I don't have any problem with Trump sending recent asylum claimants to Boston. If the judge wants to help this undocumented individual evade a Federal Agency, perhaps Boston could put it's money where it's mouth is and become a Host City for these Central American migrants attempting asylum here.
I believe the Trump Administration is going way too far here and are collective experts at stirring the Border Drama Pot for maximum Support Base support. But evading a Federal Agency is avoiding a Federal Agency......there is a point there, too. Rob
Rob your biases are showing. The judge is a she not a he.
The Mass gov wants the judge suspended
https://www.masslive.com/news/2018/12/massachusetts_judge_under_scru.html
gimmethesimplelife
4-25-19, 7:15pm
Rob your biases are showing. The judge is a she not a he.OK then, I take back that sentence and I restate: I don't believe she, meaning this female judge in question, should face any charges. And I cringe to admit this but you have a point....I have nothing logical to point to to support any reason I'd believe the judge was male and not female. Not only do you have a point but you are right. I was biased. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-25-19, 7:19pm
I was just thinking for a bit is this similar in the slightest to the Jussie Smollett case, where the prosecutor thought was Smollett did was not worth prosecuting? We don't know what type of drug is in question here, do we? I read something about a non-specific drug charge - it could be marijuana and with marijuana being more accepted by society each and every passing day - maybe the judge thought let this person go? Let me state right now I don't know that any of this is true....I'm just trying to think of a scenario in which this situation could somewhat logically unfold. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
4-25-19, 7:31pm
Possession of individual use quantities of recreational marijuana is legal in Massachusetts.I thought so, Yppej. I am wondering if the drug in question - if it was indeed marijuana - maybe the arrest took place before legalization in Massachusetts? I don't know what the backlog of cases is for non-violent issues, just a guess......though it's also very possible that the drug in question was an actual dangerous drug such as heroin, cocaine, crystal meth, fentanyl, something along these lines. I wish we had more details. Rob
I found a local news story that reports it as narcotics which is vague, but the perp was twice previously deported. He does not sound like a Boy Scout.
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