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gimmethesimplelife
4-26-19, 9:39am
Were money no object and were there not these pesky concepts called money and work and bills I'd be in Minneapolis right now - I'd find a way to overcome my fear of this city and deal. Right now the trial of Former Minneapolis PD Officer Noor is going on (Officer Noor who fatally shot/murdered victim Justine Damond, an innocent 40 year old Australian national at the time of her death).....

Should Noor be convicted, I'd love to be there to share in the joy. Should he go free I'd love to be part of the protest response/social media response....this trial truly does have it all. We have a former Somali refugee who once held a middle class job and by most standards was once a "success story" that liberals could point to - culminating in the death of an innocent female victim - something Conservatives can point to in regards to immigration. We have the city of Mary Tyler Moore's day vs. the reality of now. We have our whole system basically on parade to the world - with the underlying questions of Does Human Life Realistically Mean Anything In America and Does The Rule Of Law Realistically Mean Anything In America?

I know this trial is getting coverage in Austria - I fielded a call late yesterday afternoon from Vienna asking for an explanation as to why this happened in the first place. Such is America...that's what I said and if Noor does evade consequence, this is not going to make America look good overseas. Think in terms of personal safety for moneyed foreign tourists and businesspeople - the kind of people you would WANT to visit America, spend money, and conduct business. It's amazing to me how many Americans don't understand that our whole way of life is under the international microscope these days with those not of refugee situations finding America lacking in some ways.

At any rate, this one is a nail biter and could go either way, at least as I see it. Should Noor walk free.......I wonder if the North Side will run amok? There's a part of me that's relieved MTM has passed should Noor walk free - it's as if his walking free is a direct insult to MTM's memory. I know this is a bit out there to many but it does seem to me that this whole affair besmirches that which is good about the area in general - and other than it's police issues, Minneapolis as I understand and the area in general does have a lot going for it. Rob

PS Coming back to update: I just read that the murdered and innocent Justine Damond was actually a dual national of both the US and Australia, thereby making my comment regarding her nationality above as exclusively Australian incorrect.

dado potato
4-26-19, 11:12am
The Twin Cities Want You.

The destiny of the quality of life in Minneapolis is in the hands of local government. I would encourage all potential residents to look into Minneapolis 2040, the comprehensive plan.

Briefly, the essential goal is to ensure that all Minneapolis residents will be able to afford and access quality housing throughout the city, have access to a living wage job, and have access to daily needs via walking, biking, and public transit.

In my opinion the plan contains some distinctive winning strategies:
-- Eliminate disparities, so all communities "fully thrive" regardless of race, ethnicity, gender {Hats off to MTM!}, country of origin, religion or ZIP code.
-- People who are socially connected, safe, and healthy (including "psychological resiliency").
-- Focus on design and a thoughtful connection of public spaces and private development.
-- By 2040 to be on track to achieve an 80% reduction in greenhouse gas emissions by 2050.
-- Economic development that increases jobs mainly in the central business district.
-- Eliminate disparities among people of color and indigenous people in the rate of civic participation.
-- Support home ownership to include owner-occupied small multi-family buildings.

Teacher Terry
4-26-19, 11:26am
I went to graduate school near there and it’s a great town. Winter is challenging even though I grew up in Wisconsin but at the warmer part of the state:))

LDAHL
4-26-19, 11:36am
As a career bureaucrat, I can say with some authority that hundreds of thousands of file cabinets throughout this great land bulge with such plans. Many, if not most, are promulgated by well-meaning people with inspiring visions of the future but have difficulty dealing with potholes in the sordid world of reality. The sort of folks who plan on granting everyone “psychological resilience” twenty years hence, but can’t be bothered to stay current on their pension obligations in the present.

gimmethesimplelife
4-26-19, 11:52am
I just got off the phone with the Hennepin Country District Attorney's Office. I did what little it is that I can do and I thanked them for their service in prosecuting former Minneapolis PD Officer Noor to the fullest extent of the law. The system may very well fail us yet again and prove that both the rule of law and human life mean nothing in America - but the Hennepin County District Attorney's Office does deserve some gratitude in this case for being of service and for at least trying to do what is right. It is not their fault if the system ends out failing us yet again. Rob

iris lilies
4-26-19, 12:27pm
Rob, you have “fear” of The Twin Cities? Pretty cwaazy.

MpLS STP area is very pretty. They grow beautiful blue spruces. We have ten relatives there. Ya gotta be hardy to live there! While not quite Westeros it is the Land that is Always Winter.

i have sworn never to live North of interstate 80 since I come from thereabouts.

gimmethesimplelife
4-26-19, 12:34pm
Rob, you have “fear” of The Twin Cities? Pretty cwaazy.

MpLS STP area is very pretty. They grow beautiful blue spruces. We have ten relatives there. Ya gotta be hardy to live there! While not quite Westeros it is the Land that is Always Winter.

i have sworn never to live North of interstate 80 since I come from thereabouts.There are those who would consider it a sign of intelligence to avoid an area with a history of police killing at will for no legal reason whatsoever and getting away with it. I understand YMMV here, IL, and that's fine.....my point is on this one it will not be hard to find many other people who agree with me. Instead of pretty cwaazy how 'bout pretty ruuuuun of the mill? Rob

PS Came back to add that blue spruces are my favorite tree! I miss them from Portland where they grow easily and also from the Grand Canyon area where they are not native, at least on the South Rim, but grow well if planted there. Rob

dado potato
4-26-19, 12:34pm
@LDAHL

There are undoubtedly underfunded public pensions in some municipalities. I could be wrong about Minneapolis, but I believe their employee pensions are administered by a statewide Public Employees Retirement Association (PERA). As of November 2018, for general employees in Minnesota PERA, the Accrued Benefit Funding Ratio was 82% and the Projected Benefit Funding Ratio was 104%.

http://www.mnpera.org

No doubt there are career bureaucrats who would be cynical about urban planning. If I am mistaken about Minneapolis, I hope someone with more knowledge will straighten me out on this. I imagine that if city employees casually filed the Minneapolis 2040 plan and then ignored it, the elected City Council would notice. The City Council would be reminded to take notice by the advocacy group Neighbors for More Neighbors

Incidentally Neighbors for New Neighbors is organizing in St Paul to influence revisions to the formal urban plan on the other side of the river.

http://medium.com/neighbors-for-more-neighbors

LDAHL
4-28-19, 3:23pm
@LDAHL

There are undoubtedly underfunded public pensions in some municipalities. I could be wrong about Minneapolis, but I believe their employee pensions are administered by a statewide Public Employees Retirement Association (PERA). As of November 2018, for general employees in Minnesota PERA, the Accrued Benefit Funding Ratio was 82% and the Projected Benefit Funding Ratio was 104%.

http://www.mnpera.org

No doubt there are career bureaucrats who would be cynical about urban planning. If I am mistaken about Minneapolis, I hope someone with more knowledge will straighten me out on this. I imagine that if city employees casually filed the Minneapolis 2040 plan and then ignored it, the elected City Council would notice. The City Council would be reminded to take notice by the advocacy group Neighbors for More Neighbors

Incidentally Neighbors for New Neighbors is organizing in St Paul to influence revisions to the formal urban plan on the other side of the river.

http://medium.com/neighbors-for-more-neighbors

I don’t think it’s a question of the people on the front lines being insubordinate. My experience is that these “plans” tend to be feel-good statements of intent with no legislative or budgetary follow-through. It’s one thing to say let’s give everybody affordable housing. It’s quite another to produce the political trade offs and financial resources needed to make it happen.

bae
4-28-19, 3:46pm
Should Noor be convicted, I'd love to be there to share in the joy. Should he go free I'd love to be part of the protest response/social media response....this trial truly does have it all.

It sounds like you've already concluded Noor is guilty, before the trial has even happened, given the two courses you lay out above. In that case, why bother with a trial or any of that nasty due-process stuff at all?

Alan
4-28-19, 4:23pm
It sounds like you've already concluded Noor is guilty, before the trial has even happened, given the two courses you lay out above. In that case, why bother with a trial or any of that nasty due-process stuff at all?
I can only imagine there's a different form of jurisprudence practiced in the imagination of at least one 85006 resident. Let's hope it doesn't catch on.

gimmethesimplelife
4-28-19, 4:58pm
It sounds like you've already concluded Noor is guilty, before the trial has even happened, given the two courses you lay out above. In that case, why bother with a trial or any of that nasty due-process stuff at all?I do believe that Noor needs to be incarcerated for many years - he acted as if God and killed an innocent human life. If I had done that, I would be facing prison for many years....why should Noor be exempt and/or an exception to the rule of law, and if you agree that such is acceptable, why should anyone waste any time on this country whatsoever? Why should America be anything more than a stepping stone to better citizenship elsewhere - sort of a resume padder in a sense?

Don't know how to break this to you, Bae, but beyond my usual complaints regarding this country, it's not hard to find many people in higher neighborhoods than the 85006 who would agree with the above - at least for reasons of American police running amok and killing at will, historically facing little if any consequence for their cold blooded murders of innocent citizens.

Such is not competitive with the deal you can achieve via citizenship in other developed countries. In short, America fails this test. Hands down.

My cynical hunch - and I hope to be wrong - is that Noor will indeed walk free. What message does such send to aware citizens regarding both the desirability of this citizenship, and much more importantly, the viability of this citizenship? I have no problem putting America under the microscope.....thankfully every day I'm getting the sense that more people have had their fill and are doing so, too. This is not going to end well over the long haul if Noor walks free.........people have had enough of this aspect of America. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
4-28-19, 5:00pm
I can only imagine there's a different form of jurisprudence practiced in the imagination of at least one 85006 resident. Let's hope it doesn't catch on.Your lack of concern for innocent human life is scary....I'm hoping you don't really mean what you just said. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
4-28-19, 5:09pm
About the Noor trial....it should be wrapping up pretty soon. I understand that tomorrow (Monday, 4/29) will feature closing arguments so this can't go on too much longer. From what I've read online Noor did not do too poorly on the stand in his testimony but there was one glitch where his testimony did not match his partner's and he also came across as too obviously rehearsed. From what I understand the prosecution has done a good job here and has made a compelling case for long term incarceration.

Should Noor be convicted (crossing fingers) activists nationwide will be warning police going forward to think twice before pulling the trigger to avoid getting "Noored" - his incarceration, if he is indeed convicted, might just help spare untold innocent lives should "law enforcement" officers finally grow up, catch a clue, and realize that smartphone video has ended their days of getting away with murder - that people can and will leave no legal stone unturned in standing up to police officers who break the law and who murder, maim or cripple their innocent victims. (or even those not so innocent where deadly force is obviously excessive).

I wouldn't hold my breath but for every convicted law enforcement officer, who knows how many innocent lives are spared by getting these sociopaths out of society where they can do the general public no further harm? Let's hope Noor is convicted so as to dole out justice in the inexcusable cold blooded murder of innocent victim Justine Damond and to save other innocent victims nationwide of the same. I hope in some microscopically small way to be a part of this process - advocating for long term incarceration for such sociopaths and saving human lives along the way. I do what I can, you know? I try to pay it back and put something good into this society. Rob

frugal-one
4-28-19, 5:10pm
We were going to move to Mpls to be near DS. Checked and it would cost us around $12,000 MORE per year to live there. Health insurance is way more than what we pay here. I couldn't believe it so I took the policy and physically checked with the agent there. That is the main portion but the only thing that is less is real estate taxes. Be careful what you wish for!!!!

Alan
4-28-19, 5:14pm
Your lack of concern for innocent human life is scary....I'm hoping you don't really mean what you just said. RobDue process is one of the best protections for any innocent person caught within the legal system. I believe in it and encourage its use, I'm sorry if that scares you.

gimmethesimplelife
4-28-19, 5:15pm
We were going to move to Mpls to be near DS. Checked and it would cost us around $12,000 MORE per year to live there. Health insurance is way more than what we pay here. I couldn't believe it so I took the policy and physically checked with the agent there. That is the main portion but the only thing that is less is real estate taxes. Be careful what you wish for!!!!I would agree this is a toxic combo - police believing they are above the law and killing innocent victims and having a history of getting away with such combined with such a great distance from the Mexican border to put health and dental care within reach. I don't have a quick answer as to the latter but let's hope Noor is convicted....that should send terror down the spines of LEOs in it for the wrong reason(s). It would be a start to making things more viable for the long term, at any rate. But yes, such would not do much if anything for the health care access issues you raised, I'll give you that. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
4-28-19, 5:20pm
Due process is one of the best protections for any innocent person caught within the legal system. I believe in it and encourage its use, I'm sorry if that scares you.The problem with this statement, Alan? The innocent party here was cold bloodedly murdered by someone whose rights you seem to deem as more important than human life. Due process is not going to help innocent murder victim Justine Damond at this point......the best we can hope for is that Noor faces life in prison with no chance of release.....both for justice for Justine and to send a message to LEO's nationwide that the climate they face in changing and their days of getting away with murder are now over. Just imagine how many innocent lives can be spared from LEO's with sociopathic/psychotic tendencies nationwide, given the fear that LEO's will have to live with going forward that they actually are not above the law and their lives can indeed be destroyed via their psychotic law breaking actions.

I'd like to think you care for human life.....Noor's being convicted would truly be an American Victory in the Human Rights Arena, and one that is long, long, long overdue. Let's hope for the best (long term incarceration with no quick exit possible). Rob

Alan
4-28-19, 5:48pm
The problem with this statement, Alan?
It doesn't allow for the pre-determination of guilt or innocence based upon how you feel? I think that's what's right with the statement.

gimmethesimplelife
4-28-19, 5:58pm
It doesn't allow for the pre-determination of guilt or innocence based upon how you feel? I think that's what's right with the statement.Have you followed this trial at all, Alan? Noor even admitted that his victim was indeed unarmed. This trial is all going to boil down to whether or not the jury will buy into his "following his training" - the rest seems to be window dressing at this point. Let's hope Noor never walks free. Just imagine that OK to murder precedent that will be set if Noor walks free. Only the very wealthy will be safe from the police going forward should Noor walk. Rob

Teacher Terry
4-28-19, 7:49pm
The Graham vs Connor ruling is why most police are acquitted of murdering people. This happened much less frequently than before the ruling was enacted. Plus this generation of cops have spent their careers having this protection. I remember a time where innocent people were rarely killed. This is becoming much more frequent. I probably would have called the police in that situation but never would have went outside. Even in our mediam sized city this has happened more than once.

bae
4-28-19, 8:14pm
I do believe that Noor needs to be incarcerated for many years -

And you've decided this all before a jury has had a chance to look at the evidence, sort out the facts from the evidence, then apply the law to the facts?

Must be a big time and money saver.

organictex
4-28-19, 11:58pm
And you've decided this all before a jury has had a chance to look at the evidence, sort out the facts from the evidence, then apply the law to the facts?

Must be a big time and money saver.

that's what i was thinking. i live south of The Cities and have followed this story closely. i normally side with the victim,
in egregious actions like the cop that shot the guy in Chicago like 12 times while he was walking in the street and unarmed,
but i also know what a tough job that is and i personally would be shooting people left and right if they didn't get their freaking
hands up when i told them too! this case i think is different, in that it was two people from different cultures colliding--the Somali
cop and Aussie female victim. I also think many people that normally stay on the sidelines have got an opinion since the cop is
black. (btw, its also very fishy that nobody told anyone about her rapping on the side of the car and scaring them until at least
30 minutes after it all went down, and they had a chance to talk to their shift supervisor--who also turned off her body cam the
minute she got on the scene!) definitely a "code of silence" thing going on. anyway, they shouldn't have all these cowards on the
police force and that lady should have known better than scaring the crap out of them in a dark alley by banging on their car, if
indeed that actually happened. i wouldn't want to be a cop nor would i want to be on that jury...
jim

gimmethesimplelife
4-29-19, 10:39am
For me personally this is a very stressful day. I'm very worried that the system will fail the rule of law and prove that human life means nothing in America by letting Noor walk free. Remains to be seen of course but I'm very afraid. Closing argruments and perhaps jury deliberation start today. I'm trying to be a shade less cynical than usual and find some hope that Justice For Justine will prevail. And just last week an officer in Florida who killed an innocent black man waiting for a toe truck was sentenced to 25 years in prison....so who knows? Nothing wrong with praying for justice and hoping for the best. Rob

iris lilies
4-29-19, 11:18am
For me personally this is a very stressful day. I'm very worried that the system will fail the rule of law and prove that human life means nothing in America by letting Noor walk free. Remains to be seen of course but I'm very afraid. Closing argruments and perhaps jury deliberation start today. I'm trying to be a shade less cynical than usual and find some hope that Justice For Justine will prevail. And just last week an officer in Florida who killed an innocent black man waiting for a toe truck was sentenced to 25 years in prison....so who knows? Nothing wrong with praying for justice and hoping for the best. Rob

Let’s see, this is a “very stressful day” for you. You are “very afraid.” This, all for one incident thousands of miles from you. Hyperbole much?

We have had two officer involved shootings in st louis within about ten days.

Guess I should be packing my bags to flee.

Teacher Terry
4-29-19, 11:29am
Rob, read the ruling and it will be explained why this is happening. They need to repeal it.

gimmethesimplelife
4-29-19, 2:27pm
Let’s see, this is a “very stressful day” for you. You are “very afraid.” This, all for one incident thousands of miles from you. Hyperbole much?

We have had two officer involved shootings in st louis within about ten days.

Guess I should be packing my bags to flee.IL, you are really down with Noor's cold blooded murder of innocent Justine Damond, she of no criminal record and completely unarmed at the time of being murdered in cold blood by Noor? Wow - this explains a lot, including your making light of my concern for innocent human life and legal precedent going forward. Your mileage gets to be whatever you want it to be - I do not mock that nor do I dispute that - all I'm saying is that your post here speaks volumes - I'm not sure you intended this or are aware of this (?) but it does. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
4-29-19, 2:29pm
Rob, read the ruling and it will be explained why this is happening. They need to repeal it.I am home early today as my hours have been temporarily cut due to season being over and work slowing down. I'm about to take a breather from being online and from social media for a few hours but will look this up later - thanks for passing this ruling along, TT......Rob

iris lilies
4-29-19, 2:33pm
IL, you are really down with Noor's cold blooded murder of innocent Justine Damond, she of no criminal record and completely unarmed at the time of being murdered in cold blood by Noor? Wow - this explains a lot, including your making light of my concern for innocent human life and legal precedent going forward. Your mileage gets to be whatever you want it to be - I do not mock that nor do I dispute that - all I'm saying is that your post here speaks volumes - I'm not sure you intended this or are aware of this (?) but it does. Rob

Where did I say I was “really down with Noor’s” action? It is a sad and sorry deal.

I’m not making light of your concern. I making light of your hysteria because honestly I don’t believe it.

gimmethesimplelife
4-29-19, 2:36pm
Where did I say I was “really down with Noor’s” action? It is a sad and sorry deal.

I’m not making light of your concern. I making light of your hysteria because honestly I don’t believe it.Believe it....whether or not you do it remains genuine as it always has been. I can understand that you don't understand many of my takes because obviously we are mostly on different pages - I can accept that and even respect that (for the most part) - regardless, just because you might not understand my concern and "hysteria" as you call it does not make my concern any less real, genuine, and legitimate.

That said, I do Thank You for expressing that you are not making light of my concern. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
4-29-19, 4:15pm
It's gone to the jury. Let us hope and pray a legal precedent is set here in protecting US citizens and anyone else present in the US, for that matter - from overzealous, sociopathic police officers. It's up to the jury at this point which I understand has been sequestered....they could pull an OJ jury on us or they could take a long time....who knows? But the fate of innocent people in the future is up to them - I don't know if this jury knows how important they are as players in the trajectory of Human Rights in this country.

I only hope they are taking their roles seriously. Rob

Alan
4-29-19, 4:26pm
I only hope they are taking their roles seriouslyI'm not sure what their options are, but after due consideration if they were to decide on a verdict along the lines of "Involuntary Manslaughter" with a prison sentence of perhaps 3 years, would that satisfy your lust for vengeance?

bae
4-29-19, 5:40pm
It's gone to the jury. Let us hope and pray a legal precedent is set here in protecting US citizens and anyone else present in the US, for that matter

Jury decisions don't establish precedent in the US. Back to law school with you.

gimmethesimplelife
4-29-19, 5:57pm
Jury decisions don't establish precedent in the US. Back to law school with you.I beg to differ. If Noor is indeed convicted, there will be a lot of pressure for similar prosecutions in the numerous similar cases that appear nationwide. Perhaps the precedent won't be on paper per se, I'll give you that....but you better believe police officers will know of this new vulnerability and you better believe their victims will, too, and will use such to their advantage STAT. Thereby creating more precedent and expectation in the eyes of society. Rob

bae
4-29-19, 7:36pm
I beg to differ. If Noor is indeed convicted, there will be a lot of pressure for similar prosecutions in the numerous similar cases that appear nationwide. Perhaps the precedent won't be on paper per se, I'll give you that....but you better believe police officers will know of this new vulnerability and you better believe their victims will, too, and will use such to their advantage STAT. Thereby creating more precedent and expectation in the eyes of society. Rob

Words have meaning, Rob.

gimmethesimplelife
4-29-19, 7:55pm
Words have meaning, Rob.And so does social change and political pressure, such as the kind that are about to land on PD's nationwide in the event of Noor being convicted. Let's hope for the best so that we can begin regaining Human Rights in America and so that there can start to be checks and balances on police officers and also so that police officers know in advance anything they say or do can and will be used against them in a court of law and also the court of social media. Pretty much America has sunk to the point that all police officers need to be given a memo to the effect that - get caught doing this? 20 years in prison. This offense? 25 years in prison. And so on. Point being, a conviction of Former Officer Noor could well lead to police officers dialing back the illegal BS due to terror of imprisonment/asset loss/unemployability for life due to their criminal record.

So that America can be less fear based for most of it's citizens, let's hope that Noor gets at least 20 years with no time off for good behavior or any such reduction in time techniques. It's high time police officers paid the price for their sociopathic/psychotic/illegal life-destroying behaviors. I can't wait and the 85006 - at least the residents I have talked to - is excited. This could be the ticket to social change. We can hope until we know differently, anyway....

And even if there is no conviction, the point is NOOR WAS ACTUALLY TRIED LIKE ANYONE ELSE WITH NO PREFERENTIAL TREATMENT (at least not obvious preferential treatment). That right there is enough to cause terror in many officers who truly believe they are completely above the law. It's the start of well deserved payback. Bring it on! Rob

Teacher Terry
4-29-19, 9:50pm
On the reverse side I don’t know how they get anyone to be a cop in big cities like Chicago, New York, etc. That seems like a death wish. In February we were in New Orleans and our Uber driver was a retired cop. He started talking about the horror and devastation of finding all the bodies, etc. He said some cops never were able to return to the job and he retired as soon as possible. That’s after the hurricane they had.

dado potato
4-29-19, 10:44pm
I understand that the jury is charged with deciding if the defendant Noor was justified in using deadly force, based only on what he knew when he fired his gun.

Prosecutors contended that Noor saw no weapon, nor even saw the shooting fatality Ms Damond's hands before he fired.

Noor testified that it was a loud bang on the driver's side of the squad car (not the sight of a weapon) that made him fear that he and his partner were being ambushed. He said he saw his partner trying to pull his gun. He said he saw the woman raise her arm outside the window of his partner.

The jury deliberated about 4 hours this evening, without reaching a decision. My hunch is that some of the jurors believe Noor was not justified, but they are not unanimous. Tomorrow morning they will resume discussion to see if they can agree. Then the group dynamic may resolve into a shrinking minority of hold-outs, until the last dissenting juror capitulates.

organictex
4-30-19, 3:31pm
i would fix it by making rule that police will be terminated immediately if their
bodycam is turned off at anytime during their shift. at least we'll always know
what went down...

bae
4-30-19, 4:10pm
i would fix it by making rule that police will be terminated immediately if their
bodycam is turned off at anytime during their shift. at least we'll always know
what went down...

Are they allowed to use the restroom while on-shift?

ToomuchStuff
4-30-19, 4:19pm
i would fix it by making rule that police will be terminated immediately if their
bodycam is turned off at anytime during their shift. at least we'll always know
what went down...


Are they allowed to use the restroom while on-shift?


I had this discussion with a LEO relative and some other LEO's. How about when they are talking on their personal phone, at lunch? How about when dealing with an abused child (there are privacy laws that deal with children, verses open records and reporting), and several other scenario's. (Informants and such)

Rob, start reading your dictionary.

dado potato
4-30-19, 5:08pm
The jury reached a verdict. ABC News says the verdict will be read at 4:30 PM

dado potato
4-30-19, 5:31pm
AP newswire says the verdict will be read at 5 PM.

gimmethesimplelife
4-30-19, 5:55pm
Just dropped by to post what dado potato has....3 PM Central Time, six minutes from this post, the verdict will be revealed. I am off to meditate and pray for justice. Justice For Justine!!! Rob

PS Came back to correct the time on my post. It should have been 5 PM Central Time. My only excuse is that I live in Arizona and we don't turn our clocks back or ahead here, something I've always been appreciative of and one of the few things I didn't like about living in Portland.....had to deal spring forward, fall back there. Rob

bae
4-30-19, 5:58pm
I am off to meditate and pray for justice. Justice For Justine!!! Rob

Were you on the jury?

dado potato
4-30-19, 6:26pm
Jury found Noor Not guilty of 2d Degree Murder,

and guilty of the other 2 charges: 3d Degree Murder (dangerous conduct, taking unreasonable risks and causing death) and 2d Degree Manslaughter.

gimmethesimplelife
4-30-19, 6:27pm
Don't drop dead of shock folks.....Noor was convicted of two of the charges he faced. Right now at this very moment I am proud to be an American citizen. Seriously. This is the second time in my life I have felt this....the first was the night Barak Obama was elected in 2008. The system worked this time and I am compelled to admit this. The system worked!!! I also feel relief as this will set precedent in following cases. The tide is turning against tyrannical US police. Thank You, each and every one of you, for allowing me to share this overwhelming joy with you. The system worked!!!!! Rob

Teacher Terry
4-30-19, 6:32pm
I am also glad Rob. This is getting all too common. You have to have the right personality to be a cop and right temperament. I definitely don’t have the right qualities. I know that they give a psychological test to try to weed out sick people but obviously it doesn’t always work. I think one of the problems is that it’s scarier to be a cop now than decades ago because citizens are ambushing and killing them for no reason. It’s a complicated situation which might be causing some of the overreacting.

gimmethesimplelife
4-30-19, 6:34pm
Were you on the jury?No....but I wish I had been. Imagine how honorable and noble casting a decision for Human Rights, Human Life, and The Rule Of Law and completely against Tyrannical American Police would be. These jurors not only made the right decision but began Human Rights Empowernment over US Police (provided they break the law, that much is true).

I wish these jurors much peace, happiness, love and joy as they move through their lives. They deserve such. Who knows how many lives this decision may save from American Police going forward?

Off to a carne asada cookout at my next door neighbors from Guatemala tonight....now it's going to be a celebration of great joy. Rob

bae
4-30-19, 6:45pm
When you are done celebrating, Rob, you might want to look up what the charges he was convicted on actually are in Minnesota....

https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.205
https://www.revisor.mn.gov/statutes/cite/609.195

Alan
4-30-19, 7:30pm
Now bae don't harsh his buzz with distinctions between negligence and purposeful intent, he may have to reconsider truth's he's known since he was 8.

organictex
4-30-19, 7:36pm
I am also glad Rob. This is getting all too common. You have to have the right personality to be a cop and right temperament. I definitely don’t have the right qualities. I know that they give a psychological test to try to weed out sick people but obviously it doesn’t always work. I think one of the problems is that it’s scarier to be a cop now than decades ago because citizens are ambushing and killing them for no reason. It’s a complicated situation which might be causing some of the overreacting.
i agree, i don't think Noor was sick just scared and he made a mistake.

gimmethesimplelife
4-30-19, 7:39pm
Now bae don't harsh his buzz with distinctions between negligence and purposeful intent, he may have to reconsider truth's he's known since he was 8.Alan, one might mistake your post here to mean that you are not in agreement with Noor's conviction? All I will say is that the tide is turning.....do not be surprised if such decisions become more common going forward. Rob

bae
4-30-19, 7:44pm
Alan, one might mistake your post here to mean that you are not in agreement with Noor's conviction? All I will say is that the tide is turning.....do not be surprised if such decisions become more common going forward. Rob

Words.

gimmethesimplelife
4-30-19, 7:48pm
Words.To be followed by imprisonment of police officers guilty of similar conduct going forward and increased litigation. Thankfully. As an activist I'm feeling such joy and relief to see the American Poluce losing their grip on tyranny. Thankfully. Words yes but followed by action. Rob

Alan
4-30-19, 7:50pm
Alan, one might mistake your post here to mean that you are not in agreement with Noor's conviction? No, I think it was probably appropriate and definitely in line with the involuntary manslaughter suggestion I made a few days ago, the main difference being terminology which varies somewhat by jurisdiction.

My biggest problem with this thread is your seeming belief that these types of incidents are the result of murderous intent by police officers rather than considering the possibility that people in extremely stressful situations sometimes make catastrophic mistakes. I'm afraid that once you realize his conviction lacks the element of intent you'll be disappointed.

gimmethesimplelife
4-30-19, 7:51pm
My Cousin Astrid in Vienna was stunned by the verdict. She said everyone in Austria assumed Noor would walk free as human life has a history of not mattering in America....hypocritical words given Austria's role in the Holocaust....but also true given much American Police Brutality History. Rob

bae
4-30-19, 7:52pm
My biggest problem with this thread is your seeming belief that these types of incidents are the result of murderous intent by police officers rather than considering the possibility that people in extremely stressful situations sometimes make catastrophic mistakes.

Which seems in accordance with the jury's verdict.

Probably time to flee the country.

ToomuchStuff
4-30-19, 8:14pm
Probably time to flee the country.

Words, he probably doesn't understand either.:laff:

gimmethesimplelife
4-30-19, 9:08pm
Words, he probably doesn't understand either.:laff:I understand that Former Minneapolis PD Officer Mohammed Noor is looking at an estimate 17 years in prison for the crimes he committed (an estimate based on the average length of sentence in Minnesota for the two crimes he committed). I understand that there has been at this late date some justice for the innocent and murdered in her prime Justine Damond. I understand that Noor was given no free pass for being a cop nor were his words auto trusted for being a cop. I understand that it's very likely this conviction will embolden similar convictions going forward, with an increase in seeking top dollar litigation, also. I understand much of America has had it's fill of the current form of American Police - not only the 85006. Is there anything else here to take from this? Rob

gimmethesimplelife
4-30-19, 9:11pm
It's amazing but I passed by the Austrian flag in my living room awhile ago and I looked at it and I did not feel inferior or guilty. It's wonderful what a simple display of human rights and human life mattering can do for the soul, even in a country of relentlessly turbo charged capitalism such at this.

I'm just very relieved and happy at the decision of the jury in downtown Minneapolis, MN today. I do feel some hope going forward now and I do have something concrete I can point to that actually worked - and worked when it mattered. All in all, a good day and a wonderful outcome. Here's to more of the same in applicable cases. Rob

LDAHL
4-30-19, 10:19pm
Cops have been convicted of similar crimes in the past. What makes this particular case so pivotal?

flowerseverywhere
4-30-19, 10:29pm
My Cousin Astrid in Vienna was stunned by the verdict. She said everyone in Austria assumed Noor would walk free as human life has a history of not mattering in America....hypocritical words given Austria's role in the Holocaust....but also true given much American Police Brutality History. Rob

How very interesting. Do you .Austrian family members follow much news from the US? I just looked up Austrian news and their immigration woes and an avalanche dominated their news.

jp1
4-30-19, 10:38pm
Cops have been convicted of similar crimes in the past. What makes this particular case so pivotal?

The fact that such a conviction is relatively rare? While I don't necessarily agree with Rob on the threads about this topic (including this one), I do think he has a point. Going back to the Graham v. Connor ruling I think there has been a long flaw in the way these cases get determined at trial. I wasn't on the jury for this case, (or any other similar case for that matter) but based on what I've read I think the jury made the right decision. And I'm also surprised that they made that decision based on what I've read about other cases and the results juries gave in them.

I don't blame Rob for being happy about this outcome. Maybe it's a one off but maybe it's also indicative that juries are starting to question the Graham v. Connor ruling in light of everything in the news the past few years on this topic. If that's the case I'd consider it to be a good thing.

To be sure, not precedent setting in the definition of precedent. But heck. Definitions of words are fluid for many people. To some socialism just means any policy democrats are proposing or have enacted that they don't like. (see Devin Nunes recent outrage at being asked by a waitress if he wanted a straw as a prime example. He may have had the word wrong, but I get his point nonetheless. He's outraged that the government would be used to point out to him that plastic straws are harmful to the environment when he'd rather live in blissful ignorance.)

gimmethesimplelife
4-30-19, 10:41pm
How very interesting. Do you .Austrian family members follow much news from the US? I just looked up Austrian news and their immigration woes and an avalanche dominated their news.This trial apparently did get coverage on one of the big networks (on more than one occasion as events unfolded) and also coverage from day to day in Osterreich Heute. Certainly it was not the main news event nor did it get extended coverage but it did get regular coverage as it unfolded. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
4-30-19, 10:54pm
Cops have been convicted of similar crimes in the past. What makes this particular case so pivotal?No snark here, LDAHL, seriously, though this is going to sound snarky. I don't mean it that way, really I don't. You can't see why this case is such a big deal?

Look at the defendant. A Somalian refugee who went to college, found professional level work and achieved a middle class income. Point being - someone Liberals can point to as to why Diversity Hiring works and is necessary and why accepting refugees is such a good thing. Culminating in the death of 40 year old dual Australian/US national - something Conservatives can point to in their anti-immigration rhetoric. Then we have the long term image of Minneapolis as an American city that actually works. Then we have the fact that Noor himself admitted Damond was unarmed. We have a jury that was comprised of ten men and two women, heavily Minority based.....and they still ruled against Mr. Noor. We have the Country District Attorney's Office (and I can not praise the Hennepin Country District Attorney's Office enough!!!) actually take this case seriously and treat Mr. Noor as if any other criminal defendant - no special pass nor special privileges. Mr. Noor was even taken into custody right after the verdict despite his attorney asking for Mr. Noor to remain free until sentencing. We have political correctness and when it doesn't work on display, and we have a female victim whose backstory is sympathy producing, with no prior criminal record.

So many variables here and my take is also that more and more Americans literally are sick of American Police getting away with murder. This to me is one trial that had it all - and I am actually both impressed and pleased with the system for once as my take is here is one instance where the system actually worked. What's more - people will want to see more of police officers being charged when they break the law. I predict the notion of a police officer ACTUALLY DOING TIME FOR AN ILLEGAL MURDER is going to be addictive - the general public will now believe that such can actually happen and will begin to demand and eventually even expect such. This case, to me, is a harbinger of change, and change that American PD's are not going to take well as they honestly believed consequences could never visit them. Waaaaaaaaaaa Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Waaaaaaaaaaaa..........that's all I have to say. After I express gratitude to the system again for actually working this time. Rob

Teacher Terry
4-30-19, 11:27pm
Tex, seems to be the only person that gets my point. There is enough blame to go around on both sides. P

dado potato
5-1-19, 3:02am
Soon after the verdict the chief of police and elected officials made statements to calm residents and acknowledge the hurt all around.

Mayor Frey: "...Our city must come together -- not for any other reason beyond our love for each other and the values that hold us together … While today's verdict may bring closure to some, it will also serve as a reminder of how far we must go to foster trust where it's been broken. We must acknowledge that historical and ongoing racialized trauma continues to impact our society."

City Council member Linea Palmisano: "...The best way to honor Justine {Damond, the deceased victim of the shooting} is to simultaneously remember the pain our Somali community endured during this tragedy. The Islamophobic, racist, and anti-immigrant remarks that have accompanied the discourse of this trial have no place in society."

Where I live, I have not heard much discussion of the trial. But I gather that in the Twin Cities some remarks of John Q. Public during the trial were not nice. As our good fellow bae might say, "Words".

LDAHL
5-1-19, 9:02am
No snark here, LDAHL, seriously, though this is going to sound snarky. I don't mean it that way, really I don't. You can't see why this case is such a big deal?

Look at the defendant. A Somalian refugee who went to college, found professional level work and achieved a middle class income. Point being - someone Liberals can point to as to why Diversity Hiring works and is necessary and why accepting refugees is such a good thing. Culminating in the death of 40 year old dual Australian/US national - something Conservatives can point to in their anti-immigration rhetoric. Then we have the long term image of Minneapolis as an American city that actually works. Then we have the fact that Noor himself admitted Damond was unarmed. We have a jury that was comprised of ten men and two women, heavily Minority based.....and they still ruled against Mr. Noor. We have the Country District Attorney's Office (and I can not praise the Hennepin Country District Attorney's Office enough!!!) actually take this case seriously and treat Mr. Noor as if any other criminal defendant - no special pass nor special privileges. Mr. Noor was even taken into custody right after the verdict despite his attorney asking for Mr. Noor to remain free until sentencing. We have political correctness and when it doesn't work on display, and we have a female victim whose backstory is sympathy producing, with no prior criminal record.

So many variables here and my take is also that more and more Americans literally are sick of American Police getting away with murder. This to me is one trial that had it all - and I am actually both impressed and pleased with the system for once as my take is here is one instance where the system actually worked. What's more - people will want to see more of police officers being charged when they break the law. I predict the notion of a police officer ACTUALLY DOING TIME FOR AN ILLEGAL MURDER is going to be addictive - the general public will now believe that such can actually happen and will begin to demand and eventually even expect such. This case, to me, is a harbinger of change, and change that American PD's are not going to take well as they honestly believed consequences could never visit them. Waaaaaaaaaaa Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaa Waaaaaaaaaaaa..........that's all I have to say. After I express gratitude to the system again for actually working this time. Rob

I don’t presume to speak for what sickens all Americans or even any zip code thereof, but in the little midwestern city I recently moved to people don’t seem to be thrumming with interest in this case. As I make my leisurely rounds, I hear more about the latest run on Jeopardy and the level of the river than widespread satisfaction that this case will be important in deterring the police from sport-hunting the citizenry.

It’s hard for me to view this as some kind of turning point.

bae
5-1-19, 1:21pm
It’s hard for me to view this as some kind of turning point.

I live in the most progressive county in one of the most progressive states in the country, and there's no discussion of this case. Even though we are quite near Seattle, which is under Federal supervision for the troublesome behaviour of its police force.

I also noticed that most of the major news channels, even the ones Trump hates, didn't see fit to throw this story up on their breaking-news sections yesterday.

dado potato
5-4-19, 1:34am
On May 3 it was reported that Minneapolis had settled with the family of Justine Damond, the woman who was fatally shot by officer Noor. $18 million will be paid to the woman's family and $2 million will be donated to the Fund for Safe Communities of the Minneapolis Foundation. The settlement was unanimously approved by the city council. Council members expressed a commitment to keep working on improving policing.

gimmethesimplelife
5-4-19, 9:23am
I have to admit, this one time and with this one issue - after the fact, the system ended out working as well as one could hope for. This transcends citizenship or perks of citizenship/nationality for me. There's no bringing Justine Damond back just as there is no bringing back the lives of many other innocent victims murdered by American police for no legitimate reason whatsoever - but this one time what could be done was done. A large settlement was issued to the grieving family and sentencing for Mohammed Noor is scheduled for June 7th.

I rather doubt the judge involved will go light on sentencing with the world watching this trial. I understand that the police union in Minneapolis is freaking out - How dare you prosecute one of our murderers? Something really needs to be done to curb the power of police unions. If everyday people can be deprived of unions via the brutality of global capitalism, why shouldn't the police be denied union membership? Why is this street not going two ways and why the long term expectation in American society that society knuckles under and accepts this? Got news for you folks - the tide is turning. Don't believe me? Fine. Let the courts prove my point via a larger numbers of successfully imprisoned former police officers going forward. As for me, it's hard not to feel slightly smug - and I've talked to neighbors who understand and agree with me. I am someone - and I know many others, too - who correctly viewed American Police as a threat to society long before it was trendy to do so.

At any rate, it is a joy to see this process unfold and given that I have held a high opinion of Minneapolis for a number of years - I like the fact that the city in which the tide turned turned out to be Minneapolis, MN - though any American municipality with police blight would have sufficed. Sacramento, California, come to mind as does Tempe, Arizona - for high profile cases where murder was not necessary nor indicated.

I lit a candle at Mass the other morning I was off for Justine Damond. This won't bring this innocent victim who was in the prime of her life back - but it is what little I can do other than to spread the truth of the American Police and agitate as much as time allows for justice. And for the police to be held accountable 100% of the time, no exceptions. I and other activists in Phoenix have been calling the local police - also in Mesa, Tempe, and Glendale, AZ this is going on (surrounding cities with major police issues/police officers unworthy of a badge abusing the citizenry and getting away with it) informing them that the Noor verdict is a turning point and that eventually, accountability would be coming. Then we advise the police that if they can't handle accountability and the potential for imprisonment and ruined lives in the event that they break the law, it's best to put in their two weeks notice, keep their accrued pension in the Arizona State Retirement System, and move on so as to keep their incentive to be a cop AND prevent their imprisonment. We also advise them that they are on a recorded line and anything they say can and will be used against them in the court of social media.

Does the above get results? Probably not right away, granted. It's done to let cops know that the social climate they face has changed, that the street does indeed go two ways, and that anything they do should they break the law can and will be used against them - and in cases where police officers break the law and walk free, justice can still be served via economic boycotts and social media. Police officers no longer can get away with murder, literally - it's been a long time coming but it's coming. Let us all be grateful that one of the major blights on American society - especially for lower income people - is finally being addressed. Rob

Teacher Terry
5-4-19, 12:04pm
If you are really calling police and saying this they probably have you on a unstable persons list.

bae
5-4-19, 12:11pm
My "troll" theory continues to collect supporting data.

gimmethesimplelife
5-4-19, 1:21pm
If you are really calling police and saying this they probably have you on a unstable persons list.TT, ,think about how uneven the playing field is here and how the street isn't going two ways as it should. They can come, and as you have posted before in Nevada, and kill with no reason whatsoever, to date often getting away with it - and if one of us so much dares to raise a peep over this and call and warn them in a civil manner of the Noor verdict and that accountability is eventually coming, we are put on an unstable persons list. (if such is true, I wouldn't be surprised but I don't know that it's true, either)....what kind of a society is this? Seriously. Am I the only person here who sees how flat out wrong this is? Very scary - jeepers, this is one of the scarier things that I have encountered in my years in this country. An expectation that I'm OK with being potentially murdered 24/7/365, yet raise a peep and I'm vulnerable to being named on some list.

I feel bad for the refugees from Central America that Canada is not the first developed country they encounter on their trek North. Granted, things are worse with the police in these Central American countries, I grant that here and now - but it's not the level of Human Rights in Canada, either. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
5-4-19, 1:23pm
My "troll" theory continues to collect supporting data.Standing up against police brutality, and the murder of innocent Justine Damond, any many other such murders of innocent civilians by the police in the United States makes me a troll? This explains a lot regarding prior posts of yours towards mine. Thank You. Rob

iris lilies
5-4-19, 3:37pm
If you are really calling police and saying this they probably have you on a unstable persons list.
Yes.

I think it is weak to make threatening phone calls as “activism” but it is impossible to know If this unreliable narrator really makes calls to local police stations, how often the calls are made, what is said in the calls, and etc. Make no mistake, advising that “accountability would be coming” is a threat.

dmc
5-4-19, 3:53pm
Obviously with the number of police officers out there, there are going to be some bad ones. I believe overall they are doing a fine job.

The police officer involved in the shooting at least helped with meeting the diversity criteria of the community. Maybe they should be more concerned in hiring the best candidates.

dmc
5-4-19, 3:57pm
It’s too bad that the 85006 cant just request that the police stay out of their zip code. I’m sure that would make everyone there happy. It must be hard to try and do your job under stressful conditions with cell phones stuck in your face.

gimmethesimplelife
5-4-19, 5:08pm
Obviously with the number of police officers out there, there are going to be some bad ones. I believe overall they are doing a fine job.

The police officer involved in the shooting at least helped with meeting the diversity criteria of the community. Maybe they should be more concerned in hiring the best candidates.Don't be too shocked, dmc, I agree with you. They should be interested in hiring the best candidates - I am starting to see Diversity Hiring as partially to blame for the murder of Justine Damond. It's true that Diversity Hiring did not pull the trigger, but it did allow Noor access to the situation where he did pull the trigger, in spite of reports that he was not fit to be an officer. Swept under the rug by Diversity Hiring.....this was not Liberalism's finest hour by any stretch.

It's bad enough that Noor as a LEO murdered Justine Damond....it's even worse for me as a Liberal understanding that Diversity Hiring is partially to blame for Damond's death. At any rate, I am hoping the city of Minneapolis adjusts their hiring criteria for law enforcement officers STAT. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
5-4-19, 5:13pm
It’s too bad that the 85006 cant just request that the police stay out of their zip code. I’m sure that would make everyone there happy. It must be hard to try and do your job under stressful conditions with cell phones stuck in your face.Now here I beg to differ with you, Sir. Certainly you must have seen, over the course of the past few years, numerous video regarding police brutality/law-breaking/assualting innocent citizens/using way excessive force on those not so innocent but not posing a real threat. Perhaps you can unsee that, good for you. My take is - don't expect other people to unsee it, to not be guided by it, to not view the police forever in a negative way. You get to see law enforcement as you wish, I give you that and agree with this much. What I'm saying is in the light of mountains of evidence to the contrary, don't expect any one else to be so charitable to law enforcement. Especially someone from an area that's historically had trouble with over the top police officers.

Nicest way I can put this? To expect such from some one else these days really is asking for too much. Things are that bad, things have changed that much. Rob

bae
5-4-19, 5:29pm
What evidence do we have that Noor was the result of "Diversity Hiring"? Are people simply assuming this because he's not a cis-het-white-Protestant-male?

What does "Diversity Hiring" mean for his department? What differences to the standards existed for Noor compared to Officer Roy McCrary?

There's so much structural racism to unpack here....

My own department, and every department I've trained with, establishes standards. If you meet those standards, you are a candidate. "Diversity" has meant that we examined the standards to see if they really objectively were requirements for service. As a result, we have female firefighters, and I'm happy to charge into burning buildings with them at my side. I don't worry that they were "Diversity Hires", I see their performance every day on our training and certification processes.

dmc
5-4-19, 9:31pm
I’m sure you can google for several articles.

gimmethesimplelife
6-8-19, 10:24am
Good news! Mohammed Noor was sentenced yesterday in Minneapolis, MN to 12 1/2 years in prison. His defense team tried to get him probation only but the judge involved waa having none of that, swept this motion aside, and bestowed an average sentence for the crime committed.

Personally, though I strongly believe this sentence should have been multiplied by 3 given that Noor was once in a position of "public trust" and in one in which he did have some power over average everyday people - I also take some joy out of this sentence. Activists will use this for bigger lawsuit settlements and there will be more public pressure now to sentence psychopathic and sociopathic police officers who break the law to lives behind bars and then ruined lives upon release due to permanent criminal records.

We also need a Law Breaker LEO Registry so that these offenses further hinder the lives of law breaking LEO's. From what I'm reading online, activists are working on this.....it will take awhile but one day it may happen. Nice to see the power these thugs have over the general public slowly eroding. Rob

Teacher Terry
6-8-19, 10:53am
I am glad to see some of these cops get sentences. Maybe it will be a deterrent in the future.

Alan
6-8-19, 11:07am
Maybe it will be a deterrent in the future.It's more likely to be a deterrent to becoming a police officer. It appears we're now criminalizing mistakes made in the heat of conflict and branding whole communities negatively. I would never go back into law enforcement if I were younger, it's not worth the risk.

gimmethesimplelife
6-8-19, 11:13am
It's more likely to be a deterrent to becoming a police officer. It appears we're now criminalizing mistakes made in the heat of conflict and branding whole communities negatively. I would never go back into law enforcement if I were younger, it's not worth the risk.Alan, Thank You. I'm not sure if you are aware of it or if you intended it (?), but here you have made it crystal clear why police officers can't be trusted one iota in the United States - at least as things currently stand. (Though I do believe this is in the slow process of changing). What did you do, you ask? You completely ignored and glossed over the risk that the general public faces from police officrers, a risk that can no longer be plausibly denied due to numerous videos since Ferguson highlighting beyond a shadow of a doubt numerous illegal actions perpetrated by police officers. Want to be taken seriously on this topic? (up to you, as always) You need to factor in that the public is more and more aware of the risks involved in any encounter with police officers, no matter how trivial or slight.

By completely ignoring this unpleasant fact, you lose credibility. You wouldn't have to cave in to this fact - a mere mention that video proves that this street goes two ways would sufffice. Completely up to you, I get that. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
6-8-19, 11:18am
I am glad to see some of these cops get sentences. Maybe it will be a deterrent in the future.Thank You, TT. This is also my hope - I can't realistically think of any better deterrent to illegal, murderous acts by police officers than the possibility that they may be held accountable for their illegal acts in a court of law, same as anyone else.

It's not a mass exodus, but more and more police officers around the US have been quitting recently, and I firmly believe this is due to the fact that they believe they are above accountability and can't handle being held accountable. Who knows how many innocent (or even not so innocent) lives have been spared due to these officers quitting due to their inability to handle accountability for their actions? And the good thing is that they do leave with their accrued pensions to date intact, so they do walk with a nice consolation prize. Rob

Alan
6-8-19, 1:56pm
Alan, Thank You. I'm not sure if you are aware of it or if you intended it (?), but here you have made it crystal clear why police officers can't be trusted one iota in the United States - at least as things currently stand. (Though I do believe this is in the slow process of changing). What did you do, you ask? You completely ignored and glossed over the risk that the general public faces from police officrers, a risk that can no longer be plausibly denied due to numerous videos since Ferguson highlighting beyond a shadow of a doubt numerous illegal actions perpetrated by police officers. Want to be taken seriously on this topic? (up to you, as always) You need to factor in that the public is more and more aware of the risks involved in any encounter with police officers, no matter how trivial or slight.

By completely ignoring this unpleasant fact, you lose credibility. You wouldn't have to cave in to this fact - a mere mention that video proves that this street goes two ways would sufffice. Completely up to you, I get that. Rob
Whatever Rob. Go ahead and stereotype, demean and misrepresent if it gives your life some sense of purpose, just don't expect everyone to agree with your foolishness.

Teacher Terry
6-8-19, 2:34pm
There have always been good cops who don’t bully people. We need to attract the best and not the worst. Here the pay has been raised to help with hiring. We have hired ambassadors for downtown to assist tourists with questions, directions, etc and also to get to know the homeless and direct them to resources. They are hoping to assist the police with these issues to allow them more time to do their real jobs. This is actually the first place I have lived where I have felt the police have overstretched their rightful authority.

gimmethesimplelife
6-8-19, 3:48pm
Whatever Rob. Go ahead and stereotype, demean and misrepresent if it gives your life some sense of purpose, just don't expect everyone to agree with your foolishness.With all due respect, Alan, I see no stereotyping involved in calmly relating that video does indeed exist (and lots of it, may I add) since Ferguson showing that this issue is very much a two way street. Not the one sided issue that I often come across as stating it is, nor the one sided issue that your post here implies. And there are some good cops - I will give you that here and now. The problem is that there are some cops that are a 180 from being a good cop......thankfully that's FINALLY being addressed in this country to some degree.

Police officers are not gods, they are not above the law, and much like customers, they are FAR from always being right.

I would go so far as to say that this issue is more complex that either of us make it out to be. Rob

PS I came back to add - you mention that you would not go back into law enforcement were you younger, as to you it's not worth the risk (your words, not mine). Fair enough, I question that not one iota. What I do question is: What about the risk of Justine Damond making the 911 call in the first place, her risk of loss of life via unfortunately encountering a LEO who never should have held the position to begin with. What about civilian risk in innocent interactions with law enforcement when law enforcement fatally (expletive) up? I can accept that you find risk in being a LEO due to the significant change in climate that LEO's have faced since Ferguson.....my question to you is that has it EVER been appropriate from day one that an innocent civilian such as Justine Damond should face ANY RISK WHATSOEVER from an innocent 911 call she herself made for completely legal reasons? Point being - the street goes two ways here, like it or not, and the non-law enforcement side of this equation is going to stand up for itself more and more and more as time goes on. This Noor verdict/outcome? Only the beginning...……...Any LEO that can't handle this has no business wearing a badge in the first place. You may not agree, and no one says you have to, k? Point here being I'm far far far from the only one out there who thinks this way these days, and this is far from being social class specific to an area such as my zip code......I'm afraid this line of thinking is going up the ladder and not remaining at the level it traditionally has.

Change is in the air and I say in this case - bring it on! It's long overdue. YMMV, and that's cool...….just don't expect someone such as myself who's experienced what I have to see this issue any differently. One thing I will say that I believe is a bit conciliatory to wrap this up with - it must be hard these days for the scattered good officers out there who are in it for the right reasons...…….I can see that, believe it or not. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
6-8-19, 3:50pm
There have always been good cops who don’t bully people. We need to attract the best and not the worst. Here the pay has been raised to help with hiring. We have hired ambassadors for downtown to assist tourists with questions, directions, etc and also to get to know the homeless and direct them to resources. They are hoping to assist the police with these issues to allow them more time to do their real jobs. This is actually the first place I have lived where I have felt the police have overstretched their rightful authority.I think the ambassador idea is a good one. We have that in Phoenix and have for some years - they are called, or were called, The Copper Square Ambassadors - a group of folks who work for the Downtown Phoenix Partnership and fulfill the same role that you describe above. Rob

herbgeek
6-8-19, 4:36pm
So Rob, if things go "both ways" should the police be able to attach a pension or similar for those who bring a case that is completely bogus? Should that person be destroyed on social media and should there be a registry for those who have falsely brought law suits so there could be vigilante justice?

gimmethesimplelife
6-8-19, 4:43pm
So Rob, if things go "both ways" should the police be able to attach a pension or similar for those who bring a case that is completely bogus? Should that person be destroyed on social media and should there be a registry for those who have falsely brought law suits so there could be vigilante justice?Surprise! Your answer is yes. If it's a bogus claim, your answer is yes and this is really no different from a woman making a false rape accusation against a man to destroy him (something else that is about to be criminalized, give it some time). Both sides need video to back up any claim, word is no longer good enough - including the word of a LEO as too many have lied under oath and have been proven to have lied, and have faced no consequences in the past for doing so.

Bogus claims on both sides need to be prosecuted and there needs to be proof of any accusation/allegation. Why do you think I've gone on and on and on regarding never leaving home without a fully charged smartphone? For this very reason. Rob

PS In regards to registries, I'm fine with having a registry for those having made bogus claims against the police, provided that a registry is made for LEO's law breaking behavior/crimes committed on the job/resulting criminal convictions. Fair trade? Rob