What is the deal with anti-vaxxers anyway?

[gimmethesimplelife]

I don't understand the big deal about vaccines and why there are people so vehemently against them. Does anyone else here get this? Vaccines prevent diseases - at least diseases there are vaccines for - why would anyone be against the concept? Maybe I'm missing something here? Rob

[bae]

The Internet has empowered people with "unique" belief systems to find and reinforce each other.

[iris lilies]

I don't understand the big deal about vaccines and why there are people so vehemently against them. Does anyone else here get this? Vaccines prevent diseases - at least diseases there are vaccines for - why would anyone be against the concept? Maybe I'm missing something here? Rob
A common reason is that parents believe the vaccines make their children autistic.


There are probably many other reasons.You know that some peoples health conditions preclude them from getting these vaccinations don’t you?


I know that our pets are over vaccinated.

Sometimes the societal good is not necessarily good for the individual. I balk at neutering and spaying every pet, for instance, Especially the early neuter programs of the shelters.

[Teacher Terry]

I vaccinated my kids and would do it again. Because my young 3 year old Maltese died likely from the rabies vaccine and is part of a national study I am not vaccinating her 2 half siblings. From my research dogs once they get all their puppy shots between birth and one year of age are immune for life. I don’t get flu shots.

[iris lilies]

I vaccinated my kids and would do it again. Because my young 3 year old Maltese died likely from the rabies vaccine and is part of a national study I am not vaccinating her 2 half siblings. From my research dogs once they get all their puppy shots between birth and one year of age are immune for life. I don’t get flu shots.
How does your municipality handle the lack of a rabies vaccination? Can you get an exemption from your vet?Or maybe you just don’t license these dogs.Can you get an exemption from your vet?

[Teacher Terry]

Yes I can get a exception. Since rabies is mandatory I have to fill out a form so they aren’t in trouble. I also don’t license them. However, if my dogs were to bite someone they couldn’t quarantine at home. Amy is five and had shots and max got all his up to the first year.

[catherine]

I'm on a Facebook group that has 6,000 worldwide people, and someone brought up the topic of vaccines and, boy, I had no idea what an incendiary topic that is!!! Right up there with abortion and Trump! Rob, you are right--vehement is the right word to describe the anti-vaxxers. But the vaxxers were just as vehement.

I believe vaccines have been a great public good--especially the ones against childhood illnesses. We have had a pretty serious outbreak of measles in NJ because certain groups, such as the Orthodox Jewish community, prohibit vaccines. Of course, they are not the only ones. Apparently the typical anti-vaxxer is a college-educated white female.

As far as pets go, we went for a time without licensing or vaccinating our dog, but we gave in when we really wanted to belong to a dog park that mandated licenses, and therefore vaccines. I have no problem with rabies vaccines either. I'd rather get the dog the vaccine than have to have him euthanized if he were to come in contact with a rabid animal.

I support anyone's right to get their child or pet vaccinated or not, but in this case, I do believe that this anti-vax trend is a threat to the rest of us for no science-based reason

[razz]

Fear-mongering works equally well among the educated and non-educated.

The Ebola crisis is getting worse because the fearful have killed healthcare workers providing care and accused the gov't and foreign healthcare of conspiracies. Measles numbers are getting worse... and so are other diseases wherever fear is driving individual thought.

[Gardnr]

I wouldn't wish these diseases on anyone. Polio? Rubella? Hepatitis B? HPV? Among all the others......

I simply cannot comprehend not vaccinating. Vehement? Well, if I must be labeled I suppose that fits.

[KayLR]

I really hesitate to say this, but I think (and also Bae is onto something) that much of this anti-vaxx sentiment goes right along with the current helicopter parenting style and culture. Somehow (along with the autism myth) the fear of adverse reaction to vaccine has skyrocketed way above the fear of communicable diseases like measles, mumps, rubella. Even though these adverse reactions are quite rare, no uber-mom & dad's little Emma or Aidan will be one of those statistics.

[JaneV2.0]

You know me--I think the less medical intervention, the better.

Every child in my small town school had measles, mumps, and chicken pox, and back then they weren't considered on a par with ebola. I was highly annoyed because I wasn't allowed to read for fear it would put too much strain on my eyes; I was bored to death.I also remember an outbreak of Guillain-barre associated with swine flu immunizations.

I see both sides of this issue. Immunizations should be made as safe as possible with attention to the quality of adjuvants and people should consult with their health care professional to stagger doses, if that's a concern. Their safety should be studied and studied again. And we shouldn't be so ready to turn over our agency to Pharma or the government. We don't really know yet what sets off tendencies toward autism, or why its incidence has skyrocketed in the last decades.

At any rate, I don't have to worry (yet) about having to be forced to submit to medical treatment, so I can worry (and I do) about other things.

[Teacher Terry]

My friend’s husband got the mumps at 18 back in 1971 and it left him sterile.

[JaneV2.0]

My friend’s husband got the mumps at 18 back in 1971 and it left him sterile.

That would be a feature, not a bug, for some of us.

[rosarugosa]

That would be a feature, not a bug, for some of us.

I was thinking the very same thing - what a catch!

[Teacher Terry]

Heartbreaking for them actually.

[KayLR]

Everyone who is living in fear of their child or grandchild or friend becoming autistic due to measles vaccine should read this--I loved it.
https://www.spectrumlife.org/blog/the-misery-of-measles-385

An excerpt:
No-one is including in their coverage the reminder that kids and adults on the autism spectrum are not to be feared. No one is saying that a byproduct of this measles outbreak is that misinformation about autism is being spread. Maybe they just don’t see how their articles could have that effect but for someone who thinks in patterns, it is clear to see the negative correlation this coverage has with the increased stress levels of many of our local autistic youth and adults.


A young boy in elementary school recently came home from school in tears. People in the school knew he was on the autism spectrum because he had done a presentation in his class. About a week after the measles outbreak, a girl on the playground approached him and asked if she could catch his autism if she didn’t get her vaccines. A third child said no but you could catch his “special needs”, which was “way worse”. (These were third graders. Who do you think may have influenced their opinions?)

[Chicken lady]

Severe autism is bad. It limits people’s lives. I do not believe there is any “evidence” beyond timing to implicate vaccines (my child got these vaccines at the same time the autism symptoms showed up - as it is a common time for both, coincidence does not prove causality)

my high functioning autistic students (the ones who used to be labelled “aspberger’s” ) are some of the coolest people I know.

my kids had some of their vaccines delayed because it seemed like a lot to do to their immune systems all at once, and my girls were not vaccinated for some things. Ds has “optional” vaccines and looked into preventative rabies but decided against. (choices made by kids). None of them ever got flu shots. None of them got the chicken pox vaccine because it was new and I was concerned about lasting immunity - I figured they could get it between ages ten and twelve if it had proved itself, but instead they all got chicken pox. We were exposed the day after Halloween, and they had it one at a time, and we homeschooled, so I kept them all in the house until almost Christmas. I thought I would go insane by the time the last one was no longer contagious!

[jp1]

As someone who got chicken pox at age 30, 2 years after the vaccine became available I have this to say. "VACCINATE YOUR DAMN KIDS." I spent a week home alone with a fever that regularly got up to 104. I was too sick and too tired to realize that I was too sick and too tired to be home alone safely. Yes, I survived. But it could have just as easily gone the other way and they'd've found my dead body, partly eaten by my no longer fed cat.

As for rabies, not sure about dogs but apparently there are two vaccines for cats. One that's hard on their bodies and one that's not. Our cats have had the bad one. Our current vet only gives the better one and doesn't recommend more than one of it for indoor cats like ours. I imagine every municipality is different but in San Francisco it's apparently necessary for a pet to have had at least one rabies shot in their life. If they get caught by animal control after biting or scratching someone and the owner can't show proof of that it's a problem likely to result in the pet being euthanized. If they can show proof of at least one rabies shot the pet will just get quarantined for long enough to confirm that they don't have rabies. (or something to that effect. This was ten years ago, shortly after we moved here, so my memory is a bit sketchy.)

[jp1]

My, completely subjective, guess is that the whole anti-vaxxer foolishness will end when it's not measles going around, but something like polio. I can remember my dad talking about how he hustled to get vaccinated for it as soon as the vaccine came out. Not surprising since his grandfather had been paralyzed from it for many years.

[Gardnr]

My, completely subjective, guess is that the whole anti-vaxxer foolishness will end when it's not measles going around, but something like polio. I can remember my dad talking about how he hustled to get vaccinated for it as soon as the vaccine came out. Not surprising since his grandfather had been paralyzed from it for many years.

Agreed. Hubby has an Aunt with a severely affected arm (she was lucky that was it!). Imagine your forearm rotated 180 degrees? And yes, she considers herself lucky.

[jp1]

And further to my previous post about chicken pox, I wish I had gotten vaccinated against it as soon as the vaccine came out. Recently the shingrix vaccine came out for shingles. I have had both doses. And both doses gave me a moderate (101ish) fever for about 24 hours. I consider that better than having to suffer shingles and the various risks from that, but best of all would have been not getting infected with chicken pox in the first place.

[Alan]

Agreed. Hubby has an Aunt with a severely affected arm (she was lucky that was it!). I think it was 1960 when I got the polio vaccine, or maybe it was 61? At any rate, it was a year or two after my uncle's bout of polio left him with one leg 2.5 inches shorter than the other. He was a growing young boy at the time (he was the youngest and my dad was the oldest of 11, he and I were in the same grade in school). He was lucky as well!

I'm not sure that I've ever had a measles or chicken pox vaccine, although I did suffer from both as a child, the mumps too on both sides.

[Gardnr]

And further to my previous post about chicken pox, I wish I had gotten vaccinated against it as soon as the vaccine came out. Recently the shingrix vaccine came out for shingles. I have had both doses. And both doses gave me a moderate (101ish) fever for about 24 hours. I consider that better than having to suffer shingles and the various risks from that, but best of all would have been not getting infected with chicken pox in the first place.

My very first patient as a Nursing student had shingles so bad and the pain was horrific enough that at age 48, she had her spinal cord surgically severed to stop the pain. I was amazed at her spirit as she told me her story. It had been several years and her spirits were high without regret. No useful legs was far better a quality of life than the pain.

To this day I cannot imagine having to make that choice!

[catherine]

And further to my previous post about chicken pox, I wish I had gotten vaccinated against it as soon as the vaccine came out. Recently the shingrix vaccine came out for shingles. I have had both doses. And both doses gave me a moderate (101ish) fever for about 24 hours. I consider that better than having to suffer shingles and the various risks from that, but best of all would have been not getting infected with chicken pox in the first place.

I did a lot of market research on that vaccine, and by far, the doctors who were the biggest proponents of it were those who had had shingles themselves, or had a close family member get it. It's easy to be complacent about a vaccine when you don't know what it's like to suffer the consequences of not getting it. And some people suffer the long-term effects of post-herpetic neuralgia once the acute stage is gone.

Thanks for reminding me to get it, jp. My DH had shingles and he said it was the worst pain he ever had.

[Tenngal]

I also agree with Bae.
I have a nut cake niece who goes along with this crap.
Her 4 yr old has to be tested for everything under the sun if he gets sick.
Apparently there are still some states that allow kids in public school without proof of shots...…….

[bae]

My very first patient as a Nursing student had shingles so bad and the pain was horrific enough that at age 48, she had her spinal cord surgically severed to stop the pain.

I had a patient last year, in their late-80s, who got shingles. It was appalling to me the pain the poor person was in. I checked in on him every day at home, and it was just devastating to watch.

[bae]

Nice, I just this moment got a note from the County Health Officer about a chickenpox outbreak in-progress here, and how to best respond....