View Full Version : Climate Dysphoria
I find myself depressed about climate change increasingly this last year. I think about it daily. It feels like grieving. It’s not just a passing thought or feeling - it is consistent.
Does anyone else notice this?
Teacher Terry
5-8-19, 11:20pm
I find it depressing but don’t dwell on it. So many things are wrong with this world and it’s so sad.
ApatheticNoMore
5-9-19, 2:22am
I think about it daily. But it's more like resignation and hopelessness with me (I'm so ground down by life otherwise as well). I mean I would do what I can, but heck if I know what the heck that is.
I feel sometimes like I've personally failed since I was even voraciously reading about climate change in junior high and high school (but to belabor the obvious, it's much larger than me, so that borders on narcissistic). Among all paradoxes of life, I was born into the population overshoot, the overshoot that shouldn't have happened, and I was born, and I will probably die before I planned as a child, due to environmental collapse (I would say before my time, but who is to say what our time is, maybe all years are bonus after 40). Food supplies are already cast into chaos for some things, species that have been around for millions of years migrating and ancient patterns like salmon spawning disrupted. I grieve for them, the salmon and so on. As for humanity, my one human comfort and I cling to it is: at least I didn't breed! There will be no descendants to live in hell at least.
I don't follow all the news there. There is a limit to what I can tolerate, I who feel horror when a local wild area gets developed (no new areas should be developed period, I don't mind urban infill so much) etc.. And that is local, that's not global destruction, and I can't bear to see it.
I feel it... it's disheartening to see the trajectory and then see reports that the Great Coral Reef is dead; millions of species are extinct or on the verge of extinction; that salmon that used to thicken the waters of the Pacific Northwest are reduced to almost nothing; the cod of the Northeast are just about gone; the animals that remain are poached and mutilated for stupid things like ivory or soup and birds as far away as Galapagos are choked with plastic.
And we still think that consumerism and unlimited growth are signs of health. It's like trading in your legs for a nice hat and saying "well, you can't walk but at least you look good."
We have the ways but not the will to amend our trajectory - old paradigms persist. I keep hoping younger generations will change the course.
We have the ways but not the will to amend our trajectory - old paradigms persist. I keep hoping younger generations will change the course.
I'm pinning my hopes on the younger generation as well, perhaps foolishly.
ApatheticNoMore
5-9-19, 11:28am
Perhaps the young are too burdened with debt, expensive housing, expensive rents, job precarity, and distracted by their cell phones (I know that's not fair, but is it sometimes true?) to save anyone.
At least they aren't pining for Joe Biden though! The baby boom will VOTE us into oblivion! But I will ally with younger people in wanting a future, it is their existence afterall.
I saw a passionate youngish woman (a millenial), give a plea for radical ecologically motivated political change recently, it struck deep: "the very world we were born into, that we have based all our dreams on, is what is destroying life itself".
It's a bit much burden and immoral to put it all on the young though, isn't it? I mean ok if one has health problems etc.. they literally can't do all a healthy young person could, obviously, but as a general all purpose hand wave it's kind of lame. The millenials seem decent, I've heard Gen Z is bringing back malls though, good grief.
I have a pessimistic temperament, so naturally global warming (I don't like the term climate change, which is something of a euphemism) brings that out in me. On the other hand, throughout history pessimists have been sounding the death knell of the human race from overpopulation, nuclear war, the zombie apocalypse, etc., and have always been wrong. So far. Maybe we'll geo-engineer our way out of this, or figure out how to terraform Mars, so we can trash that planet too. But I doubt it.
My guess is that if you are over a certain age, say 50 or so, and live in the developed world, global warming isn't going to affect you much unless you have the misfortune to get caught in a global-warming-aggravated natural disaster like a mega hurricane. There will plenty of problems around the edges--food prices will rise, losses from weather-related damage will greatly increase, and life in general will become less pleasant. But most of us won't live to see the worst of it.
In the short to medium term, as usual it will be the poorest and most vulnerable who suffer the most. The problem of climate refugees will greatly increase over the next couple of decades (this is happening in Europe already), and the wealthier countries will increasingly face the moral dilemma of how to deal with it. I expect self-preservation will win out. There will be death on a historic scale.
Yes, if there's any hope, it lies with those under 30. As they gain political power, they may be willing to undertake the kind of full-scale mobilization of resources needed to combat the problem. It will be too late to prevent serious consequences (likely it already is), but perhaps not to forestall complete catastrophe.
I'm a boomer who won't vote for Biden until I have no choice (I don't personally know any Biden stalwarts). I'm reduced to writing letters and emails and sending campaign contributions (as well as doing my small part personally to shore up the environment), but it's true many of us are approaching our pull dates, so we look to the likes of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and others to take up the fight.
Yes, climate change and a host of other human behaviors and choices depresses the heck out of me. It truly seems that humans really don't fit on this earth. For whatever the reason........our behavior seems to be unlike anything else on this earth. What plant or animal would constantly try to destroy it's own life support system?
What an incredible planet this is with it's it's natural plants, animals, climate and perfect balance, but man continues to try to destroy it all. I guess I don't think too highly of mankind. Are we "naturally" greedy, selfish, constantly unsatisfied with everything, to the destruction of everything else around us? Yes, I'm totally bummed most of the time.
Yes, climate change and a host of other human behaviors and choices depresses the heck out of me. It truly seems that humans really don't fit on this earth. For whatever the reason........our behavior seems to be unlike anything else on this earth. What plant or animal would constantly try to destroy it's own life support system?
What an incredible planet this is with it's it's natural plants, animals, climate and perfect balance, but man continues to try to destroy it all. I guess I don't think too highly of mankind. Are we "naturally" greedy, selfish, constantly unsatisfied with everything, to the destruction of everything else around us? Yes, I'm totally bummed most of the time.
I do not believe humans are inherently greedy, because there is a lot of evidence that other tribes/cultures are far more cooperative. I can't remember where I saw it, but someone did an experiment with a bunch of indigenous kids. They all sat in a circle and someone put candy in the middle and said whoever got to it first could have it. I can't remember exactly what happened--either the kids all sat there and didn't move, or they moved toward the center in unison, but it showed that no one of them wanted to be a "winner" at the expense of their friends.
One of Erich Fromm's books talks about the toll the Protestant Reformation had on the culture in terms of the relationship between work and grace. Can't remember that book, either. (I need to take better notes!). But it propelled human culture into the mode of "productivity" at all costs. And that generated a culture of competition, capitalism and Ayn Rand-style objectivism
There are people out there-some inspired by E.F. Schumacher--who believe that a negative growth would be most beneficial for us now. I'm not going to hold my breath in hopes that that will happen any time soon unless it's by accident or some cataclysmic event.
frugal-one
5-10-19, 8:11am
I'm a boomer who won't vote for Biden until I have no choice (I don't personally know any Biden stalwarts). I'm reduced to writing letters and emails and sending campaign contributions (as well as doing my small part personally to shore up the environment), but it's true many of us are approaching our pull dates, so we look to the likes of Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and others to take up the fight.
Like you, I plan on voting for someone who has a chance to win over the current moron in office. I don't think anyone could be worse than Trump. He has done irreparable damage to many laws that were in place for the environment and safety of workers (plus much more). I just hope people vote who they think can win and not necessarily who they like the best. The best thing that could happen IMO is that somehow Trump is expelled from office!!
I do not believe humans are inherently greedy, because there is a lot of evidence that other tribes/cultures are far more cooperative. I can't remember where I saw it, but someone did an experiment with a bunch of indigenous kids. They all sat in a circle and someone put candy in the middle and said whoever got to it first could have it. I can't remember exactly what happened--either the kids all sat there and didn't move, or they moved toward the center in unison, but it showed that no one of them wanted to be a "winner" at the expense of their friends.
One of Erich Fromm's books talks about the toll the Protestant Reformation had on the culture in terms of the relationship between work and grace. Can't remember that book, either. (I need to take better notes!). But it propelled human culture into the mode of "productivity" at all costs. And that generated a culture of competition, capitalism and Ayn Rand-style objectivism
There are people out there-some inspired by E.F. Schumacher--who believe that a negative growth would be most beneficial for us now. I'm not going to hold my breath in hopes that that will happen any time soon unless it's by accident or some cataclysmic event.
So well put.
Those in charge have a vested interest in keeping the peasants striving.
Teacher Terry
5-10-19, 11:05am
I will vote for anyone that can beat the present imbecile.
ApatheticNoMore
5-10-19, 11:37am
By what basis would anyone possibly have any idea who could win? Does one read it in their astrology forecast, or ask their palm reader? Does one play the ouija board? Is it just some vibe from whom one's friends and family like? Because that's a surely a valid way to determine right? Because I've never seen any RATIONAL basis for determining this. I've never heard a rational argument made for being able to make that type of prediction. People thought Trump couldn't win, Hillary Clinton herself though Trump couldn't win and it was her preferred opposition. How did that work out?
Even polls have been very biased, and the polls we have are polls of Dems who might vote for whomever the nominee was anyway, and who themselves may be thinking they have some magic means of determining who will win and thus not even voting for their true preference. And then in the general many of those votes won't matter, because in the general who really cares who a Dem voter in CA prefers, or one in a solid republican state?
There are those who are convinced Biden is who can win (despite lots of baggage that make this seem pretty questionable and not much base of support under 40 or 50). There are those absolutely convinced that Bernie Sanders is the only candidate who can win (has some real baggage with Dems, but passionate followers and is respected for consistency - and passionate followers are what you need to get out the vote to win many have argued. a "meh" candidate won't have people canvasing and working the phone banks or maybe even going to the polls?). Maybe Buttigieg? Shiny and new, so no baggage, a bit weak on experience but not compared to Trump. Kamala Harris? Or none of them or any of them? I guess one might be a bit safer with a white male than a diversity candidate? Hmm but Obama did win. But maybe a woman is risky? We've never had a women president so that would tend to imply the odds of one winning are low?
When I say Biden as the nominee makes me despair beyond despair, so we're talking about climate change, are we aware Biden has family in the fossil fuel industry? Because he does. Votes aren't going to save us, but they could just fast forward our demise.
Don't forget to factor in the Russians, voting machine/voter rolls tampering, voter suppression, and threats not yet evident. :(
I am not the most optimistic person on the subject, but times are changing. Thinking back to the debates between Hillary and the orange man I don't think climate change was even mentioned. Now it's becoming a major platform issue. I don't think politicians can fix all that is wrong, but a time may come when the economics of weather extremes or flooded coasts or crop failures will hit people in their wallets more. I think we are living in something of a golden time of material abundance that may not last much longer.
frugal-one
5-10-19, 6:16pm
By what basis would anyone possibly have any idea who could win? Does one read it in their astrology forecast, or ask their palm reader? Does one play the ouija board? Is it just some vibe from whom one's friends and family like? Because that's a surely a valid way to determine right? Because I've never seen any RATIONAL basis for determining this. I've never heard a rational argument made for being able to make that type of prediction. People thought Trump couldn't win, Hillary Clinton herself though Trump couldn't win and it was her preferred opposition. How did that work out?
Even polls have been very biased, and the polls we have are polls of Dems who might vote for whomever the nominee was anyway, and who themselves may be thinking they have some magic means of determining who will win and thus not even voting for their true preference. And then in the general many of those votes won't matter, because in the general who really cares who a Dem voter in CA prefers, or one in a solid republican state?
There are those who are convinced Biden is who can win (despite lots of baggage that make this seem pretty questionable and not much base of support under 40 or 50). There are those absolutely convinced that Bernie Sanders is the only candidate who can win (has some real baggage with Dems, but passionate followers and is respected for consistency - and passionate followers are what you need to get out the vote to win many have argued. a "meh" candidate won't have people canvasing and working the phone banks or maybe even going to the polls?). Maybe Buttigieg? Shiny and new, so no baggage, a bit weak on experience but not compared to Trump. Kamala Harris? Or none of them or any of them? I guess one might be a bit safer with a white male than a diversity candidate? Hmm but Obama did win. But maybe a woman is risky? We've never had a women president so that would tend to imply the odds of one winning are low?
When I say Biden as the nominee makes me despair beyond despair, so we're talking about climate change, are we aware Biden has family in the fossil fuel industry? Because he does. Votes aren't going to save us, but they could just fast forward our demise.
Trump makes me despair. He dropped out of the Climate Change pact that the US initiated. He keeps talking that climate change is fake news. He has deregulated so many safety and environmental laws. He NEEDS to be gone!
frugal-one
5-10-19, 6:18pm
I am not the most optimistic person on the subject, but times are changing. Thinking back to the debates between Hillary and the orange man I don't think climate change was even mentioned. Now it's becoming a major platform issue. I don't think politicians can fix all that is wrong, but a time may come when the economics of weather extremes or flooded coasts or crop failures will hit people in their wallets more. I think we are living in something of a golden time of material abundance that may not last much longer.
The abundance of food may not be much longer either. Climate is changing the way food can be grown. Saw an article recently that the local coop could not even get local greens because of all the rains and weird weather. Scary on how this is going to end.
This morning on CBS Saturday, Jeffrey Kluger had a segment that depressed me even more.
And even if our own country turned things around.........how do you turn other continents around, after they've learned how to want more and use more plastics, chemicals, etc?
I bought a book several years ago, which I had trouble reading because of my eyes jumping around, but what I could get through was interesting. It's titled "The World Without Us". I guess what he envisions as the world without humans, is about the only consolation I might have. He wants to believe in nature's incredibly ability to heal.......even with all our previous sh*t around. I know I sound very pessimistic, but humans have taught me to be so.
Here's the CBS segment.
https://www.cbsnews.com/video/the-most-dire-statistics-from https://www.cbsnews.com/video/the-most-dire-statistics-from-the-un-extinction-report/
I apologize for the commercials........I didn't know how to get rid of them. And I'm sorry if this depresses you more........but it's life in the fast lane, I guess.
I will vote for anyone that can beat the present imbecile.
+2 in our home!
ApatheticNoMore
5-11-19, 12:13pm
I certainly don't have a problem with voting for whoever runs against Trump in the general (in some states like here it doesn't actually matter, but they can for symbolism, I like to give orangebarf the finger too).
Just in the Dem primary we actually have decent choices and I hope this country makes them. Like Greta Thunberg says we must be brave and uncomfortable (although just voting for the best the primaries offer is neither uncomfortable nor revolutionary, it's just obvious).
This is Biden on climate:
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-election-biden-climate-exclusive/exclusive-presidential-hopeful-biden-looking-for-middle-ground-climate-policy-idUSKCN1SG18G
Way to little, way too late, buddy. A day late, a dollar short ...
But even Biden is partly symbolic to me: the need for real changes, and we have a symbolic retreat to the status quo prior to Trump. But he'll probably lose popularity pretty fast anyway, when people do some more research later on. I hope.
ApatheticNoMore
5-11-19, 12:16pm
As for food, yes it will be affected by climate change. Already is. I'm a bit of an olive oil connoisseur (it costs some money but it's not wine). Last year much of California's crop was lost (to erratic climate plus fires also due in part to climate) as was much of Italy's. Who cares noone really needs olive oil? Ok, we don't need added fats, we may like them, and I use it for sauteing and salad dressing and the like. I see it as a signal of probably a much larger problem, that I don't follow as personally, with how food is getting affected by climate change.
But we waste so much food we have quite a lot of slack if climate just steadily worsens (food waste itself is a major source of green house gasses - sad but true). But with abrupt climate change that seems increasingly more likely, I don't know, maybe we all starve, it could happen, human extinction one way or other due to climate changes, plus other environmental destruction is a possibility.
On I bad day, I hardly care about humanity or my own life, it all seems so awful in other ways, but I always grieve for the plants and animals (sometimes especially plants, I have a bond with plants) ... It's why even the developments of natural areas are absolute horrors to me.
Just read that local beekeepers are having/had a devastating year - colony collapse. I have a grim sense that we all know that rough days are ahead.
It makes me so frightened for my children.....
I
But even Biden is partly symbolic to me: the need for real changes, and we have a symbolic retreat to the status quo prior to Trump. But he'll probably lose popularity pretty fast anyway, when people do some more research later on. I hope.
That's why I'm for the Green New Deal. As aspirational as it is, we need that kind of vision. If we get just halfway there, we'll be in a much better place than we'll be if we settle for Democratic incremental policies or Republican regressive policies.
I've been following the actions of the Extinction Rebellion, and I'm signing up for the Vermont chapter. They are a great non-violent environmental action organization that started in the UK last year, and it has spread here and other countries.
https://extinctionrebellion.us
Below is a foundational talk on their website--it's long but worth watching-- but one of the points in it is very relevant to this thread--that the opposite of hope is grief. And once you get beyond grief there's courage to do the right thing.
That makes so much sense to me--to get beyond the dysphoria, feel the pain, and then move forward with action. Their action takes from the playbook of MLK, Gandhi and Mandela--to stage non-violent protests, get arrested and do anything that will bring attention to the problem.
A very motivating statistic the speaker of the video, Dr. Radbrook, talks about is that it only takes 1-3% of the population to effect change--that's all it took for the wheels to start turning around with the Civil Rights movement.
The organization is also non-consumerist, so you won't find merchandise on their website, and they don't allow you to use the symbol for fundraising or profiteering. I think that's really cool, too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b2VkC4SnwY0
Interesting - moving through grief to action.
Trump has a 40% approval rating--much more than the 33% required for change to happen, so the opposite of positive change is even more likely. We're already seeing environmental protection laws gutted and an institutionalized hostility to climate science.
But, trying not to feel powerless, I have all the hope I can muster that the youth of the world will take up the cause and outlast those who would destroy the planet for their own selfish ends.
catherine
5-12-19, 10:43am
But, trying not to feel powerless, I have all the hope I can muster that the youth of the world will take up the cause..
I may not be young, but as they say in Spamalot, I'm not dead yet, so I'm not yet powerless to TRY to do my small part to change things.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTg0WpJLyhA
I may not be young, but as they say in Spamalot, I'm not dead yet, so I'm not yet powerless to TRY to do my small part to change things.
Of course, but haven't many of us been doing our small part?
catherine
5-12-19, 11:34am
Of course, but haven't many of us been doing our small part?
Yes, of course--I didn't mean to suggest that that isn't the case. I just meant I'm not ready to give up yet. I agree that the young will be much more in tune with what needs to be done than our generation, but it's frustrating that so many the Old Guard are such obstructionists, and I don't intend to get lumped in with them!
ApatheticNoMore
5-12-19, 12:35pm
The thing about the young is they may not have been raised in the right conditions to be the force for change we need (this is more a question than an answer, I don't know) The economic headwinds they face are severe, It can produce a tendency just to focus on one's own economic survival (yes but, that won't save us) There was a lot more leeway in the 60s to "dropout" and drop back in, that doesn't exist now, there is a lot less economic slack, and the tracking of one's every move is more extensive (by the criminal justice system and by social media) A single mistake can be personally catastrophic, but climate change is globally catastrophic
They may have been helicopter parented, as an Xer I had a lot of freedom when young It may have made me who I am They are bombarded with serious tools of distraction with smart phones, distraction has been around for awhile, so I personally don't know if it's any worse than ever, but certainly some people think so The education they received may not have been great, they have been tested, taught to test, and charter schooled to death (but since my public education kinda sucked, maybe it's not really any worse, but the boomers seem to have been some kind of golden age for education)
I have certainly gone to things where the only people there almost were old hippies (the boomers who don't care, of which I'm sure there are tons, wouldn't be there anyway) It's discouraging as some younger involvement is needed But at the same time if the body is willing, then why not be involved, up until it's no longer willing whatever age that is (and sure one is more likely to have physical problems they must make a little or a LOT of compromise with if they are older, one can only do what they can do, and hold their own personal body and soul together too) So some of these things with nothing but old hippies have made me weary of betting on the young, a lot less confidence than some here have due to what I've seen But if it's different where you are great And even here, it's not universally true, some things have some involvement of younger people!! And that's good
As for getting arrested, if one is willing then sure One just needs to be honest with themselves about what resources of all sorts they have to handle the potential blowback of that and what courage they do or don't have now, maybe despite lack of resource etc! And if one is honest and it isn't for one then almost noone gets arrested for protest unless they seek to it seems to me (but it also seems to be fairly ineffective), nobody gets arrested for electoral politics, for phone banking, going door to door for a candidate, running for office But it's only worth a bother if one has (or is) an actual good candidate to support, if it's just some lame slightly less evil, filled to the gills with corporate (or worse fossil fuel) money, then it's not worth any more effort than casting a vote maybe (for some not even that)
Other countries are a lot more active in the climate change struggle than here, a lot more activism
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