And people wonder why the police arent trusted

[jp1]

She was handcuffed with her hands behind her back, managed to gain access to a gun, managed to put the gun in her mouth, and shoot herself. The cop’s body cam conveniently didnt happen to record while she supposedly committed suicide. The coroner’s office agrees with the police assessment that it was a suicide. Nothing to see here. Move along.

https://abcnews4.com/news/nation-world/police-woman-killed-herself-with-gunshot-through-her-mouth-while-hands-cuffed-behind-back

[Teacher Terry]

That’s the most ridiculous thing I have heard. I hope her parents get a private autopsy and hire a lawyer.

[bae]

"The police".

Are police the same across the country? Do they uniformly act badly?

Are there departments of mostly-good people, doing a fine job in their community? (Like mine)

Are there departments under Federal supervision, because some of them behaved poorly? (Like Seattle). Are all the members of *those* departments bad people?

[Simplemind]

Thank you bae.

[jp1]

To be sure not all police departments are this bad. Just as not all police shoot people in the back and then plant guns on the dead person like the dude in south carolina.

But when even the coroner joins in the cover up something is horribly wrong and it’s not just a couple of ‘rogue cops’.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Never trust the police. Your life may very well depend on it. Once in awhile you do hear a heart warming story of a decent LEO but for the most part.....they serve as potential wealth redistributors via litigation. I'd agree this is sad - but this is where things have sunk to.

For once I have something positive to post in this area. I still believe the Noor trial was a harbinger of change - juries are more likely now to convict cops and smartphone video has definitely permanently destroyed any auto-belief of anything a law enforcement officer says period. Too many innocent lives were ended before reaching this point but better late than never. Going forward I see more accountability overall for LEO's and if you look at statistics, nationwide more and more are voluntarily quitting - these are the smart ones who know the tide is turning and seek to avoid consequences for their acts by walking away from the game. Smart move on their part, I have to give them this much.

But at least things are changing. The day may come when the police are fully accountable for their actions and where human life and the rule of law actually mean something in this country, who knows? Rob

[Teacher Terry]

Of course not all police are bad but things have gotten out of hand. Cops need to act responsibly and it’s a very tough job that takes a toll on people. Many people are not suited for the position.

[bae]

Never trust the police. Your life may very well depend on it.

I trust the police here every day, Rob, and my life depends on it. For real.

[Teacher Terry]

Bae, you live in a small rural community and the police are your friends. No comparison to big city living and you are white. If I was a minority I would be avoiding them like the plague.

[bae]

Bae, you live in a small rural community and the police are your friends. No comparison to big city living and you are white. If I was a minority I would be avoiding them like the plague.

The color of my skin doesn't matter when they are doing road/traffic control while I am cutting a screaming accident victim out of an auto wreck on a dark and stormy night.

The color of my skin doesn't matter when I am entering a structure beside a police officer during an active shooter incident.

The color of my skin doesn't matter when I go into the cold treacherous water to do a marine rescue from the Sheriff's boat, trusting that the deputy at the helm and his crew will keep me as safe as possible.

The color of my skin doesn't matter when 3 off-duty deputies show up to help with a CPR/resuscitation event.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Of course not all police are bad but things have gotten out of hand. Cops need to act responsibly and it’s a very tough job that takes a toll on people. Many people are not suited for the position.TT, though it lies outside the realm of what I usually post in this area, I could not agree with your second sentence more. Not all people ARE suited for this position and I very strongly believe another area that I have not explored in my innumerable postings regarding law enforcement is better screening - to somehow find a way to better screen out the poor fits. My take is that if corporations can care about a potential employee's "cultural fit", should we as taxpayers not care about a new LEO's "cultural fit" for the duties/risks of the job to begin with? I believe you have hit on an extremely valid point here. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

Certainly not in a rural area and rescue is different than being a cop in a big city.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Bae, you live in a small rural community and the police are your friends. No comparison to big city living and you are white. If I was a minority I would be avoiding them like the plague.Plus about the number of the US National Debt. And I'd also add that it's wisest nowadays should you be Caucasian and living in a lower income area, avoid them just the same as wise minorities do. In lower income areas Caucasian no longer equals protection from what US police have sunk to. OTOH, a sad fact. OTOH, such may inspire enough rage to start the ardous (sp?) process for real change. For all of us, skin color being COMPLETELY irrelevant. Rob

[Teacher Terry]

They do care about screening and use a personality test to try to weed out psychopaths. However, some very MI people can pass. It’s a multi layer rigorous process to be a cop. I also think some start out great but get jaded by the things that they see and try to hang in their for the pension.

[bae]

I also think some start out great but get jaded by the things that they see and try to hang in their for the pension.

I've been involved in law enforcement training for decades. I have noticed a trend of good people becoming burned out by the job, from interacting every day with unpleasant people and working in stressful situations. My purely-anecdotal observation is that I think they become conditioned to view every interaction from a negative point of view for self-protection, and this sours their relationships with their family, friends, and non-criminal civilians. Probably contributes to their suicide rate and overall health issues too.

I'm not sure hanging on for the pension is why the burn-outs continue on though.

[Teacher Terry]

I totally agree Bae. Home disturbances are the worst because you never know where someone is hiding in the house to attack you.

[bae]

I totally agree Bae. Home disturbances are the worst because you never know where someone is hiding in the house to attack you.

Yes. I go on medical emergency calls into homes with some frequency, and often there is a deputy or two there to assist in management of the scene, and it's quite stressful for all. (I still have nightmares about a couple of these, seriously. The funniest such event involved several very large and aggressive parrots being set loose to attack us - it was like a scene from The Birds. Nasty flying dinosaurs with vicious beaks and claws. I am *not* kidding - we had injuries from the attack, and this was in a domestic violence situation that already had injured people and blood all over the place. The Killer Parrots just pushed it over the top.)

Now, when I encounter stress or horror on the job, we have a great and mandatory counseling program in place to help. I'm not sure the law enforcement types do, their culture is more "cowboy up and deal with it yourself".

[Teacher Terry]

The counseling is great. Home visits are the reason I quit being a social worker and went back to graduate school. They would send in a social worker alone and wouldn’t even pay for 2 to go together. When a client brutally raped and murdered a co-worker I was done. I had 3 small children at home. My other 3 co-workers also left the field.

[rosarugosa]

Bae: It's so easy to say the color of your skin doesn't matter when you are white. I think black Americans might have a different take.

[Simplemind]

On the flip side I find it very disheartening to be called to a crime scene to assist and be treated like sh*t. The assumption is that I'm there to somehow judge or treat them in a negative way. It couldn't be further from the truth. I'm there because I want to serve anyone in need regardless of who they are or how they got there. If the officers didn't care about their well being they wouldn't have called me in the first place. Are there bad cops - yes. There can be bad people in all sensitive professions. When they are flushed out the individuals should be held accountable. By and large most officers I know are good ones and they don't like or associate with the bad. That causes a lot of tension in the ranks. The profession has changed a lot in the past several years and it is very difficult to go out everyday and be faced with negativity when you as an individual have done nothing to deserve it. One of the biggest reasons we steered our son into Fire instead of Police. Everybody loves a fireman.

[Teacher Terry]

Why would anyone treat you bad? What’s your role at the crime scene?

[Simplemind]

It is generally to assist the victims/survivors during the initial investigation and for a time after. Often in the case of a cultural difference it can be a delicate situation in that there is an assumption of judgement and automatic distrust. They don't want to talk to anybody they feel is police related (we aren't but do get requested by them as well as by the fire department) and at the same time feel like they aren't being respected. I don't take it personal but it is frustrating when the blanket of distrust covers everyone, fair or not.

[Teacher Terry]

Thanks for explaining. That makes sense. Really nice of you to do this volunteer work.

[kappydell]

There have always been bad cops. Not all cops. Not all supervisors. Not all departments. But there has been an increase in the bean-counter mentality in supervision where the higher numbers your people rack up the better supervisor you are seen to be. So the emphasis is on NOT taking the time to treat folks like human beings, but like numbers on a tally sheet. Very bad. (One of the reasons many good cops are retiring as fast as they can get out. They did not sign up for that kind of policing...they actually wanted to work WITH people and that takes more time. I've met many officers who were chastised and given lower evaluations for concentrating on quality work, not sheer numbers.)

What is needed, of course is accountability. Yes, body cams are a pain. But needed. Those that refuse to be held accountable (turn off their cam) should be punished if nothing is found malfuntioning; and bounced from their positions of public trust if they have a pattern of abuse of trust. Quickly. So trust can be rebuilt. Supervisors must be forced to look beyond the "keeping score" mentality and the callousbness it encourages.

Law enforcement is not a sport. It is life at its most critical and vulnerable.

I used to get asked constantly "what do I do when a cop stops me?" Of course, I answered that on the street level, it did not pay to resist/refuse/disobey. Even talking back could get you hurt or killed if the cop is bad. Just do what he says, quickly & quietly; answer his questions, don't argue. Take mental notes, though, and let a lawyer even things up if he was criminally wrong. Lawyers are the ones to fight legal battles, not the man on the street.

So even if the cop is WRONG, bide your time and go with the flow. You can always fight it later, in safety, in court.
Document what seems odd or fishy (write it down as soon as you can discreetly do so) so you can file a coherent report on odd behavior. If the officer/official has a pattern of misbehavior it is much easier to terminate him than if all there are is vague accusations. And if his supervisor does nothing, you have ammunition to fight up the legal ladder. Think like a lawyer, fight like one too. "Trust, but verify"...and take mental notes.

[Teacher Terry]

Kappy, totally agree that compliance is the only way to come out of it alive. You can fight back later if necessary.

[jp1]

I agree about compliance. Unfortunately some cops turn it into a horrible game of simon says.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/beta.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2017/12/08/graphic-video-shows-daniel-shaver-sobbing-and-begging-officer-for-his-life-before-2016-shooting/%3foutputType=amp