Co-housing approach

[razz]

Thought that some might find this initiative interesting to read. Senior ladies found that rent was unaffordable for the single senior so posted on Facebook.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/senior-ladies-living-together-1.5153176

After her husband died, Pat Dunn had to find herself a new home. The couple had been living on a boat for years but she could not afford it without him. So she moved into a trailer.

Dunn lives in a trailer park near Lindsay, Ont., five months of the year and finds somewhere else to stay during the rest. The 69-year-old knows she can't keep doing that.

So she went looking for alternatives, but money and wait lists restricted her. She figured there were other women in her situation. So she started up a Facebook group in February to look for similar roommates. She called it Senior Ladies Living Together.

"We have to come up with creative solutions and we have to find them ourselves," she said. "I can't wait for the government because I don't know how many years I've got left."


Though Dunn's Facebook group started as a place for her to find someone to live with, she continues to run it to help others find senior roommates around Ontario. (Haydn Watters/CBC)
She figured she would get five or 10 replies. By the end of the first week, 58 women were in the group. Now there are 600 seniors from all over Ontario looking for roommates.

"I knew it was bigger than just the local area and bigger than just me finding ladies to live with."

According to Stats Canada's 2016 census, 347,805 female seniors in Ontario live alone.

A group of single senior ladies have taken a unique approach to finding affordable housing ... become roommates! Haydn Watters met with a trio of ladies in Lindsay, Ont., about to make the big move. 4:37
Alternative to retirement home
Carolyn Mackenzie and Faye Petherick joined the group early on and became fast friends with Dunn.

Now the trio is getting ready to move into a home together in Peterborough. They chat online every day and met in person last week to start fleshing out some of the smaller details — cooking, cleaning and doing dishes. They're still looking for a fourth roommate.

Mackenzie, 69, couldn't believe how closely she relates to many of the women posting in the group.


Carolyn Mackenzie will be bringing her dog Lucy along too. She was so happy when she found the group. 'Finally there’s some hope.' (Haydn Watters/CBC)
"Single women on their own have such a hard time making ends meet," she said. "I thought, 'Oh, finally, maybe there is something besides going into a retirement home or a long-term care centre.'"

Here's what it was like when Dunn first started
More Golden Girls who are beating the odds of loneliness
She said the group has given her hope. Petherick agrees. Getting to know all the ladies has made her happy.

"It's not that I ever thought I was unhappy but I'm realizing I am happier," she said.


Faye Petherick thought it was a good idea but she did have reservations. She's been single her whole life and hasn't lived with very many people. But meeting the other women alleviated her fears. 'I started to realize, yes, this can work.' (Haydn Watters/CBC)
Petherick is 68 but continues to work because "rents aren't cheap." She doesn't want to work forever so she thought this would be a good alternative to save some money and socialize a bit more.

"I also used to love the Golden Girls show," she said, referring to the long-running American TV situation comedy about four elderly women living together.

"I thought 'Oh, that's interesting. I could be part of our little own little personal Golden Girls.'"

'The future is right now'
Though Dunn's Facebook group started as a place for her to find these women, she's decided to keep it going. It's now become a full-time job. And she's swamped.

Her trailer has become the group's war room.

She gets up around 5:30 a.m., logs into her computer and then she's on it all day. She figures she puts 12 to 14 hours into the page seven days a week. That time is spent coordinating all the members, leading discussions and helping others find senior roommates around the province.

"I did not picture ever feeling [this] kind of excitement again to be frank. This experience of the group and meeting people the way I have has changed my life," she said.


Dunn has been hearing from women around the province who say they are laughing for the first time in years. 'Breaks your heart but then I think to myself I hadn’t laughed in years either.' (Haydn Watters/CBC)
With page's growth, she's worried ladies aren't getting what they joined for. Dunn admits this living model could be trickier in small towns without the population — or communities where rents are more expensive.

There's only so much Dunn can do on her own. She's hoping this sparks the idea for others, and that it spreads beyond her group.

"Remember this is our final chapter of life. There's no do-overs and there's really no future like there always has been before in our lives," she said.

"The future is right now and the next few whatever years we have left."

ABOUT THE AUTHOR

Haydn Watters
Haydn Watters is a roving reporter for Ontario, primarily serving the province's local radio shows. He has worked for CBC News and CBC Radio in Halifax, Yellowknife, Ottawa and Toronto, with stints at the politics bureau and the entertainment unit. He also ran an experimental one-person pop-up bureau for the CBC in Barrie, Ont.

[dado potato]

Fascinating to read about Dunn's group in Canada.

In the USA there is also the Golden Girls Network -- very similar, founded in 2008 by Bonnie Moore.

[JaneV2.0]

Depressing, but I'm glad these people found each other.

"Dunn has been hearing from women around the province who say they are laughing for the first time in years. 'Breaks your heart but then I think to myself I hadn’t laughed in years either.'" Mind-boggling.

[Simplemind]

Loneliness and isolation are a huge problem.

[Sad Eyed Lady]

Loneliness and isolation are a huge problem.

Yes it is. It is a very huge problem. As I have posted here before, I lost my husband in the blink of an eye, 4 years ago last month. I have no other family except a handful of cousins, a few are flung all around the U.S. and the 4 that live in proximity to me are all busy with their own lives, children/grandchildren, and except for an occasional phone call or facebook messaging there is not a lot of interaction with them. My friends have always been wonderful, but again they have their lives and aren't always around when I am feeling alone and needing to hear a human voice. The cats are pretty vocal but it is not easy to carry on a meaningful conversation! A wonderful friend came into my life the same time approximately that my husband passed. She had just left her husband and had one daughter who was grown, so we spent a lot of time together. Now the husband is back in the picture and that dynamic has changed very much. This past weekend was a good example of loneliness and isolation. A holiday weekend and therefore a lot of people have plans, so it can get very depressing and lonely. I called a couple of friends, but neither one answered. I understand, and I try not to feel sorry for myself, but without interaction with others, without conversation, without help sometimes, life gets VERY lonely and very hard.

I live in a small rural town, there are really no interesting places to visit and just sit and strike up a conversation with someone. And even the places we have close on holidays, or Sundays, or whatever. And when I do go I am the one sitting alone to have lunch. And for the most part I am okay with being alone, it's just I have learned extended time alone - without interaction with others - is not good for me.

So, long story to say the idea of co-housing is something I have thought very worthwhile in many respects. Good for this lady in Ontario taking the initiative to strike out in this direction. As far as I know, there is nothing like that near me. But, maybe for the future? Who knows.

[sweetana3]

That is the biggest reason we looked for a senior apartment that had a lot of social activities built into the whole living situation. Although mom is totally independent, there are 7 buildings and hers alone has about 70-100 seniors in it. The mail room, Wed. coffee and donuts, monthly birthday parties and other scheduled activities bring out many who live there and almost any group can be created. Rents, which include all utilities but TV and excellent maintenance, is around 800 and up.

[catherine]

I have to remind myself to never take for granted that I while I do have life problems, loneliness is not one of them--yet. But I still have DH. This may sound morbid, but I do expect to outlive him because of our different lifestyle choices, and at that point, as introverted as I am, I expect some loneliness to set in. It's one of the reasons I tend to embark on built-in social opportunities, like Master Gardener stuff.

I think co-housing is something I would entertain, but at the same time I need a lot of alone time. As much as I've always said I am not interested in 55+ communities, maybe I would change my mind at a certain point, because it seems like a hybrid approach--people who want to be social, but who go to their own homes at night.

[dado potato]

I am not sure "Golden Girls" is still a going concern. I was not able to connect with their website.

Another resource (could be) Marianne Kelly. I will try to make a link to her Women Living In Community site.

http://www.womenlivingincommunity.com/about/

[iris lilies]

I am not sure "Golden Girls" is still a going concern. I was not able to connect with their website.

Another resource (could be) Marianne Kelly. I will try to make a link to her Women Living In Community site.

http://www.womenlivingincommunity.com/about/

there are lots of clips of
Golden Girls on You Tube. Daddo, it is not a current television show it was made in the ? 1980s?. I say that because everyone has huge shoulders from shoulder pads of that fashion era. Since I am not an old gay man, it was never my jam.

[iris lilies]

I don’tWant to share a house with anyone I’m not married to, and I often have trouble sharing it with the person I am married to. I could live in a cell, in a prison cell or a nun’s cell, would not need ro be big but I want four walls that I can escape to without a human.

On a related note , my garden club friends are gearing up to attend a symposium that is being held at a nunnery. If we want to stay there super cheap we can, but we have to share rooms. I told the group sorry no I’m not doing that. I don’t mind sharing a bathroom, I don’t mind living in a simple nun cell, but I’m not gonna share a room.

[razz]

I don’tWant to share a house with anyone I’m not married to, and I often have trouble sharing it with the person I am married to. I could live in a cell, in a prison cell or a nun’s cell, will have to be there but I want four walls that I can escape to without a human.


On a related note garden club friends are gearing up to attend a symposium that is being held at a nunnery. If we want to stay there super cheap we can, but we have to share rooms. I told the group sorry no I’m not doing that. I don’t mind sharing a bathroom, I don’t mind living in a simple nun cell, but I’m not gonna share a room.

After my recent three-week bus trip and being in my own room each night, I fully agree. I need my own space and will pay the premium to ensure that happens.

[JaneV2.0]

I'll join the Privacy Club. I went to a polymer conference once where we had to sleep in a bunkhouse (!). Not an experience I'd like to repeat. Nun's cell, not so bad.

I'm with Razz in that I'm prepared to pay for the privilege and luxury of having my own digs. I'm endlessly thankful that my life arranged itself so that I could. I might have been able to live with a partner--probably not without a lot of wrangling--but God help me, not roommates. Shudder.

ETA: I found myself guffawing this morning over a radio bit, and thought how often I laugh, all by myself. I had no idea you had to have other people present to activate your humor response. :laff:

[mamalatte]

I am wondering in the co-housing situation, is this just for when one is still independent and doesn't need any sort of care or major extra help? One woman in the original article is quoted as seeing this as an alternative to a retirement home or long-term care, but I doubt if "roommates" are going to be up for providing the type of care offered in assisted living or long-term care . . . .

[iris lilies]

I am wondering in the co-housing situation, is this just for when one is still independent and doesn't need any sort of care or major extra help? One woman in the original article is quoted as seeing this as an alternative to a retirement home or long-term care, but I doubt if "roommates" are going to be up for providing the type of care offered in assisted living or long-term care . . . .
Reading between the lines, the situation described above is NOT about anyone needing assistance in daily living. It seems to be purely about finances.

I would like more detail.

I keep thinking of our friend’s father who lived ina senior community, a place that provided meals, for around $35,000. That was q few years ago so likely it is quite a. It more, ut
I hought that was a good deal: two rooms of hisown, all meals, basic laundry service.

For additional money he could have medications administered, help dressing and cleaning his apartment, etc.

[sweetana3]

It is all about the borders you put around the situation. Independent living is just that. Maybe the building has a few items like inside community rooms, coffee area, inside mail, etc. Hey, that sounds like senior independent apartments are pretty much just like others with an age restriction.

Then there are the vast assisted living places where residents usually need assistance with things like cooking, maybe dressing, housecleaning, etc. Additional services as needed might be administering medication, assistance with bathing and eating, etc.

Once the threshold is passed and actual hands on medical care is needed, the level of skilled care, the person may be moved to a different part of the assisted living area or another facility. Same with memory care. If the person exceeds the level of care for a dementia patient that the assisted living facility can provide, they will need to be moved to a segment or another facility that specialize in memory care.

This whole thing is a continuum. In the Golden Girls, they were all independent and fully capable of living their own lives. It would be wise when entering such an arrangement later in life that discussion are held and contracts made for what happens if advanced care is needed. Cohousing groups have often had these discussions when they found that someone living in their midst needed much more care than they could or would provide. Taking a meal for a sick friend is much different from feeding someone who cannot feed themselves 3X a day.

(Mom was asked one time to ensure that a friend took her medication. We had to nix that idea as it exposed her to too much emotional involvement if something should go wrong or if her friend would deteriorate. If you cannot take your own medication, you need a relative or paid assistant to do this.)

[Teacher Terry]

Co-housing is definitely not for me. I agree with IL.

[Alan]

The only co-housing I've ever experienced looked like this.

https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/9/93538/1417597-barrackslong.jpg

[razz]

The only co-housing I've ever experienced looked like this.

https://static.giantbomb.com/uploads/original/9/93538/1417597-barrackslong.jpg

looks like a gaol setting but I am assuming a military barracks or scout camp OR ?:devil:

[dado potato]

Or maybe a modern revival of the Brother House of the Mystic Order of the Solitary <wink>.

[Alan]

looks like a gaol setting but I am assuming a military barracks or scout camp OR ?:devil:
Military barracks, although that's a stock photo just for reference. The ones I knew first hand were mostly wooden frame buildings without such modern conveniences as Emergency Lighting on the walls and Exit Signs, and the beds were always covered with olive drab wool blankets.

[razz]

Military barracks, although that's a stock photo just for reference. The ones I knew first hand were mostly wooden frame buildings without such modern conveniences as Emergency Lighting on the walls and Exit Signs, and the beds were always covered with olive drab wool blankets.

I remember my DH telling me about his living in some construction sites in northern Alberta where there were wooden bunk beds with rough army blankets. People would come off shift and use the same beds as the crew heading off to work their shift. The only really positive feature for these crews was the food was top of the line available almost 24 hours a day. He would come home on a Friday for a weekend every 6 weeks and flying back to the site on Sunday afternoon. I finally told him that I wondered why we got married as the weekend was spent catching up on his laundry while he slept. Turns out that a lot of marriages didn't make it.

I was asking someone a couple of years ago who is on a construction site up in the northern areas what the accommodation and work situation was like today. It sounds like a 5 star hotel setting now - 2 weeks in and 2 weeks out. I mentioned a little of what it was like 50 years ago and he said that he would never have taken that job under those conditions.

Has the military accommodation and work situation changed as much, do you think?

[rosarugosa]

I like the co-housing concept. I wouldn't want to live in a dormitory setup with a random collection of strangers, but if I didn't have DH, I would be receptive to the idea of a roommate. On my mother's street of 11 houses, four are occupied by widows living alone. These are modest houses, but large enough to have once accommodated families of 4-5 people, in fact one of the homes even has an in-law apartment set-up. It seems like a waste of resources to have one person inhabit so much space, and it becomes a burden, financially and otherwise, to the inhabitants as they age.
DH said we seem to have a reasonable societal model for growing up and moving out to our own homes, but not so much at the other end of our lives. From what I have seen of assisted living facilities in our area, you need an awful lot of money to live decently. I have an uncle currently living in a lovely place that is $4600 for independent living, then $7200 a month for assisted living. On the other end of the spectrum, my MIL is now medicaid-funded in a crappy nursing home. There don't seem to be options in the middle.

[razz]

One concept that has not been mentioned is what I hope will happen in my life. I live in my own home and, if necessary, have a support person/couple live in part of the house.

I know there are vulnerabilities with this but these can be managed appropriately. If the cost of assisted living indicates that I will spend $$$$ money in a facility or in my own home making the decisions, I will stay in my own home. From reports that I read over the past few years, it is only the last year of life that basically independent individuals need extra personal care. My lawn and gardens are low maintenance and the snow removal is minor. I made all the decisions with this in mind when I purchased this home.

For me being forced to live in a single bedroom condo/apartment because I don't have a partner at present and being judged by society as wasteful in having a home of my own seems very, very wrong to me. It is ageist and patriarchal thinking that a solo loses the freedom of choice but couples have total freedom. RUBBISH!!!!!

[SteveinMN]

DH said we seem to have a reasonable societal model for growing up and moving out to our own homes, but not so much at the other end of our lives. From what I have seen of assisted living facilities in our area, you need an awful lot of money to live decently. I have an uncle currently living in a lovely place that is $4600 for independent living, then $7200 a month for assisted living. On the other end of the spectrum, my MIL is now medicaid-funded in a crappy nursing home. There don't seem to be options in the middle.
We recently moved MiL into assisted living (she should have done it a few years ago but we waited for it to either become her idea or a dire necessity and her idea occurred first). Middling place in her community costs about $3600 per month. Divided by 30 days, however, that does not seem terribly unreasonable for room, board, housekeeping, medical attention, common amenities (movie nights, community room/chapel, social events), capital improvement for the building, and a margin that allows residents to stay once private money runs out and MA kicks in.

One of the problems with cohousing in most communities/cities is that building codes have outlawed a lot of it. In an attempt to get away from the "unsavory" look of boarding houses and multi-family housing, municipalities have made it difficult to let even consenting adults gather independently but legally. But creative people have found ways to work the system:


The difference between an illegal apartment and a room mate with a private entrance and a kitchenette is often the existence of a real stove – but not a microwave and a fridge… (https://granolashotgun.com/2019/05/27/eating-jell-o-with-chopsticks/)

[catherine]

One concept that has not been mentioned is what I hope will happen in my life. I live in my own home and, if necessary, have a support person/couple live in part of the house.

I know there are vulnerabilities with this but these can be managed appropriately. If the cost of assisted living indicates that I will spend $$$$ money in a facility or in my own home making the decisions, I will stay in my own home. From reports that I read over the past few years, it is only the last year of life that basically independent individuals need extra personal care. My lawn and gardens are low maintenance and the snow removal is minor. I made all the decisions with this in mind when I purchased this home.

For me being forced to live in a single bedroom condo/apartment because I don't have a partner at present and being judged by society as wasteful in having a home of my own seems very, very wrong to me. It is ageist and patriarchal thinking that a solo loses the freedom of choice but couples have total freedom. RUBBISH!!!!!

When I think about my own elders, they all lived all or just about all of their lives in their own homes, with no assistance. I always wonder about the impact of the stress and disruption of change in living quarters might on older adults. At a certain point, I think it can be harmful from a cognitive standpoint.

I had a long-time neighbor across the street, whose husband died shortly after he retired, and she lived alone in the large bi-level for about 10 years--constantly harassed by her son to move down to Texas so she would be near him and her grandchildren. Sounds great, but she always dug in her heels--until she gave in a couple of years ago. I know she was very ambivalent about the move and I remember her tears when she would talk about leaving.

I think about her these days as we prepare to leave, and as nostalgic as I get (I am going through serious bouts of "well maybe DS won't like it and I'll have a chance to move back in."), I'm glad I'm doing it now. If I waited another 10 or 15 years, I think it would be all that much harder. And as great as it's been here for 34 years I don't feel this expensive bedroom community is the place I want to die in.

I agree that living independently with home help as needed would be preferable to an "old folks home" of any description.

[Teacher Terry]

It’s one reason we downsized to a one level smaller ranch. If the house was too much I could move into a smaller condo. Having lived with kids, spouses and adult kids when the need arose no way in hell I am voluntarily living with anyone but my spouse again. Assisted living here is unaffordable. Most in my family never needed nursing home care. If they did it was less than a year.

[kappydell]

After my husband passed, I teamed up with a long time friend, also female, also disabled on social security. We have a life, instead of going broke and struggling financially and with loneliness. We have 1 1/2 acres, live in a 4 BR 2 BA mobile home with a nice garden, pets, friends nearby, and we have a great time and help one another with chores. Except for strangers sometimes assuming we are gay (why does it even matter anymore? But its irritating when they make snide comments. We don't even share beds or baths) our families are approving (we all know each other) and our life is a happy one. If folks do not have a best friend to team up with, why not a network? Its a great idea!

[Ultralight]

After my husband passed, I teamed up with a long time friend, also female, also disabled on social security. We have a life, instead of going broke and struggling financially and with loneliness. We have 1 1/2 acres, live in a 4 BR 2 BA mobile home with a nice garden, pets, friends nearby, and we have a great time and help one another with chores. Except for strangers sometimes assuming we are gay (why does it even matter anymore? But its irritating when they make snide comments. We don't even share beds or baths) our families are approving (we all know each other) and our life is a happy one. If folks do not have a best friend to team up with, why not a network? Its a great idea!

This is bad ass! Fully support this. :)

[Teacher Terry]

So sorry about your husband. Your situation sounds very nice. Different things work for people.

[kappydell]

Yes, boarding houses have pretty much been legislated out of existence. Too bad, the good ones were far better than todays "group homes" and allowed a family setting for those that were alone later in life.

[pinkytoe]

Just today, walked through an inner city co-housing area nearby. It was lovely. The structures appear to be two-story Victorian style duplexes with skylights and lots of windows placed at various angles on a city block. There are many trees and plants affording privacy and winding paths throughout; a huge food garden in the central area and flower gardens everywhere. In the right unit, fantastic view of the mountains. They also have a large common house with massive fireplace with dining facilities, library, meeting rooms etc. All ages - children to elderly - were about. The units range from $250-350K so not affordable for many. Plus a monthly maintenance fee of $250. Sure beats the yucky senior living place MIL ended up at for $5000 a month.

[Teacher Terry]

Here seniors sometimes rent out 1 or 2 of their bedrooms.

[rosarugosa]

One concept that has not been mentioned is what I hope will happen in my life. I live in my own home and, if necessary, have a support person/couple live in part of the house.

I know there are vulnerabilities with this but these can be managed appropriately. If the cost of assisted living indicates that I will spend $$$$ money in a facility or in my own home making the decisions, I will stay in my own home. From reports that I read over the past few years, it is only the last year of life that basically independent individuals need extra personal care. My lawn and gardens are low maintenance and the snow removal is minor. I made all the decisions with this in mind when I purchased this home.

For me being forced to live in a single bedroom condo/apartment because I don't have a partner at present and being judged by society as wasteful in having a home of my own seems very, very wrong to me. It is ageist and patriarchal thinking that a solo loses the freedom of choice but couples have total freedom. RUBBISH!!!!!

I am certainly not suggesting that anyone be forced to do anything. It sounds like your house was carefully selected with thought given to aging in place, and it also sounds like you have the financial resources to make it work when/if your abilities diminish. I'm talking about people in old New England housing stock: 3 bedrooms, 2 floors, 1 bathroom, not ideal for aging in place, and perhaps without the resources for for hiring help when/if necessary. My mom wants to stay in her home of 56 years, and I will do what I can to make that possible for as long as possible. That means I get to kind of manage two houses, since neither of our houses is really set up well for co-housing. It just seems like there could be better options. For example, just tossing out a quick thought, if all houses were built with an "in-law apartment," it would provide a lot more living arrangement flexibility to accommodate different scenarios.