I am “socially isolated” [Archive]

Chicken lady

6-7-19, 10:04am

I’m reading through a book on dealing with hoarding disorder, and it talked about how hoarders tend to be socially isolated. So I read through the checklist on how to determine if your hoarder is socially isolated.

the options were often: 1-3 times a week, sometimes:1 or more times a month, and “never”. Most of my categories were “never” although some were really “less than once a month.

i literally never call friends for support or to invite them to do something.
i almost never have company in my home and never because I invited them.
i almost never accept invitations from friends to do anything (mostly they don’t ask anymore)
i literally never call family members to invite them to do anything.
I almost never have anyone in to help me with anything (my mom helped me set up a shelf in the basement this year and a guy installed the floor - but dh arranged that)
i know the name of one neighbor (and avoid him as much as possible - spoke with him once in the last two years)
i do not belong to any clubs or organizations.
i do not belong to a religious group.

i “sometimes” call a family member for support.
i “often” speak to my children or parents. (Mostly by phone)
i “often” spend time with my significant other (he lives here.)
I thought that I “often” spoke to friends or saw coworkers, but dh said they mean outside of work - so, never.

i see medical professionals about twice twice a year (including routine mammograms, glasses, General check ups, and my gynecologist)
i have difficulty making new friends. In the category of people I consider “friends” The newest one I met five years ago - she has never been to my house. We have never done anything away from work. There is another woman at work whom I have known for three years and am starting to think of as a friend.
keeping in touch with old friends - my best friend from college and I exchange emails every six months on each other’s birthdays.

i do take classes for 8 weeks at a time about 3x a year. The classes meet once a week. I Also sometimes attend professional trainings voluntarily.

They did not offer email or online groups as social connection options.

if someone told me that I was going to go the next week without seeing or hearing another human being, my first thought would be “cool.”

iris lilies

6-7-19, 10:38am

We only have a couple of friends left here, all others have moved away. We have many acquaintances.

Our family is out of state. DH keeps in touch with siblings via phone maybe a once a month? Since their father died, his younger brother has called him a couple of times because the younger brother used to talk to their dad now he talks to his older brother.

Someone has been inviting me out to do stuff for the last year. I’ve turned that person down five times out of seven. I just don’t want to do Things outside of our mutual interest. That mutual interest keeps us busy enough and socializing enough thank you very much.

I do think having another independent human being living with you in your house helps with reality checks, At least it does for me.

Teacher Terry

6-7-19, 10:56am

Friends have always been one of the most important things in my life. I am still friends with 4 from high school and one from kindergarten. Although we live all over the country we get together every few years since our kids have grown up. I am having a party tomorrow with 15 people coming. Every Friday night I have dinner and sleep over at my best friends house. Most of my friends I see at least monthly and some more.

Chicken lady

6-7-19, 11:16am

Every year we get together with our best friends of 23 years. Alternating houses. The two families take turns hosting. With in-laws and their grandchild, we are now 17 people. Usually at least an adult child/spouse or two are missing. We are close enough that their grandchild spent the last party at my house wearing only her underpants in a fort she had constructed from my couch cushions and their daughter and my daughter took over one of the things I was cooking and changed the recipe after their daughter went down to my nightmare if a basement and rummaged through my pantry.

the thought of any other 15 People in my house makes me want to throw up. The thought of two unrelated couples coming over at the same time is overwhelming.

IL, define acquaintance please?

and how often do you do flower things that involve being social with people not your dh? (Annoying business meetings only count if you voluntarily stay for associated social time)

also, when I say I “often” talk to my children and parents, I do not talk with each of them every week, just some of them every week.

iris lilies

6-7-19, 11:21am

Acquaintances are people you would NOT call to take you to your colonoscopy.

We have/had three single friends for whom we perform this service. Another time, One of them called me at 1:30 AM to ask me to take him on an emergency car trip an hour and a half away. His elderly father had gotten on the highway in his car, become confused, was picked up by the police driving on the wrong side of the highway. Our friend had to go get him and the car.

One time another friend, who has since moved away, came over with all of his tools because he wanted to install a water line for an ice making machine as a surprise for DH. He observed that DH uses two+trays of ice cubes during the summer. That was really sweet and funny! But I shut it down because we really do not want an ice machine.

Those are friends.

JaneV2.0

6-7-19, 11:24am

"if someone told me that I was going to go the next week without seeing or hearing another human being, my first thought would be 'cool.' "

My sentiment, too. I keep in touch with my small circle of friends and relatives. I'll leave it to others to do the socializing.

Teacher Terry

6-7-19, 11:24am

My ex was not social and only wanted family over or really close friends. Thankfully my husband is very social and we entertain frequently. I didn’t even let my own kids remove the sofa cushions so wouldn’t have been okay with that.

iris lilies

6-7-19, 11:33am

Re seeing the flower and garden folk: during May alone, which is a super busy iris time, 10 days were devoted to shows, flower meetings, show set up, flower show training, etc. And that means the entire day for 90% of those days.

And none of this is counting the endless emails and phone calls to accomplish all the above.

Chicken lady

6-7-19, 11:33am

iris lilies

6-7-19, 11:35am

I am now wondering, “take me to my...”what?

when I got bleach in my eye, I called the mother of dd’s best friend to take me to urgent care. Because she lives less than 10 miles away and I don’t know anybody who lives closer. She is kind of a friend. I would drive her an hour and a half to get her dad! But then, I would drive the guy across the street who I don’t like an hour and a half to rescue his dad. I would probably drive her to the airport if she asked. (Hour and a half round trip) she helped raise my kid.
The airport driving circle of friends is another group.

personally,
I like taking the metro train, so
I do not want anyone to drive me. But we have three sets of friends who do the airport deopoff and pickup for each other and us if we want it.

After two very bad driving experiences at the airport (got lost coming home and ended up on dead end road! Got stuck on the highway for one hour+ at rush hour, stuck from a traffic fatality) I wont do airport runs even for DH, although I WOULD pick him up at a metro train station. Technically, we can do the entire airport run by walking ro the metro station and getting on a train to the airport.

CathyA

6-7-19, 11:36am

I'm a hermit. Would I be in better emotional condition if I had friends? That's a difficult answer, since I don't really want friends. I'm happy being alone. I do have a husband and my 2 grown children and I might get lonely if I didn't have them. But I am not motivated to be social. I know how to be social, but just don't prefer it.

I think ChickenLady, that if you are happy not being very social, then you should try to accept it in you. The question for you (and me), is "Does our un-socialness contribute to a life that might be more difficult because we are not getting what might be good support from others?" I personally just can't push myself to be social. In fact, I dig my heels into the ground if I'm forced.

I think there's probably many people out there who aren't gregarious, and that's okay. Are you feeling like something is missing because you're not totally sociable all the time?

Teacher Terry

6-7-19, 11:39am

That makes total sense CL. We help our friends also. When our friends had cancer and Alzheimer’s I babysat the wife while my husband drove her husband 5 hours away for cancer treatment over a period of 2 years. They would stay for 5 days. My husband was retired so had the time.

Chicken lady

6-7-19, 11:45am

I read your edited post.

i gave birth to acquaintances! LOL

seriously though, the only time I would ask one of my kids to take me to a medical procedure would be if it were essential and impossible to schedule it when dh could be there. But part of that is because I need my mom, my dh, or a sedative for anything worse than a tetanus shot.

Chicken lady

6-7-19, 12:05pm

CathyA, I am happy not being social, although I am not happy dealing with anxiety when I have to be social.

but I am wondering if I should try harder to be social, because of reading about the links between hoarding and isolation. The author seems to think that improved social contacts, particularly those contacts that involve outsiders entering the home, reduces hoarding behaviors. they do not address the mechanism through which this occurs, but they do present it as a causal link and talk about actual overall improvement, not just “panicky and stuff things” behavior.

so I wonder, if I invited a friend over every month - would that make it easier for me to deal with the hoarding? And I wonder how that would work.

I think there is more to it, because Year’s ago my best friend and I got together multiple times a week. She didn’t even knock at my house. One time I got home and there was lasagna in the oven and a note that said “my oven is broken, so I used yours. I left you a lasagna.” And we went thrift shopping and dumpster diving together and helped hoard up each other’s houses....

JaneV2.0

6-7-19, 12:25pm

I try not to over-think. In a world of (mostly) extroverts, I'm exceptional. And I'm fine with that.

It would be lovely if friends and relatives were closer to give and receive aid and comfort, but until that happens, I'll try to make sure nothing goes wrong that I can't handle alone.

bae

6-7-19, 12:40pm

I end up going in the hoarder direction if I'm not careful to engage in social activities.

I love learning new things and experimenting. So, left to my own hermit devices, I'll get interested in some subject or project, and books, supplies, tools, and gear will start piling up as I delve into things. And I'm really bad about throwing things away I don't need anymore.

So, if I'm not mindful, my place resembles an exploded Mad Scientist Lab in about a month or so.

I've been trying to invite folks over for dinner or lunch regularly, or whatnot, and that forces me to at least keep my chaos to a dull roar.

JaneV2.0

6-7-19, 1:05pm

Float On

6-7-19, 2:54pm

I'm not social either. I would answer similar to most of those questions. But I purge instead of hoard.

Yppej

6-7-19, 5:25pm

It is not bad to be isolated if you're happy that way. Personally I would rather do more things with my friends.

catherine

6-7-19, 5:51pm

I've been trying to invite folks over for dinner or lunch regularly, or whatnot, and that forces me to at least keep my chaos to a dull roar.

That's an excellent strategy. I've always said I should have someone over at least once a month. Then my place would be presentable for at least a few days every few weeks.

I think it's interesting that hoarding patterns are idiosyncratic. I am a document hoarder. With all the purging we've done, I get stuck at things like old DayTimers from 2001. I found my mother's medical report and prognosis from when she had her stroke and I couldn't throw it away. I was on the verge of throwing away letters from my best friends in high school, but when I got down to the letters from my best friend who died in April, I threw all the letters back in the box.

I can therefore see the tie-in with the idea of social isolation leading to hoarding. There's clearly a connection with my reluctance to call someone up to go to lunch and my treasuring the written connections with friends of the past.

Then DH hoards tools and work shirts. And kitchen utensils to a certain extent. He knows we're moving to a tiny cabin and every time he goes to Job Lot he buys two stainless steel bowls.

Teacher Terry

6-7-19, 6:31pm

I think if you are isolated except for spouse, family and your spouse dies emotionally things will be horrible. Everyone needs human contact and conversations. My main living areas are always presentable should anyone drop in.

rosarugosa

6-7-19, 6:34pm

I am an introvert by nature, but I do push myself to be more social. Especially if you are a woman, try picturing yourself in the situation that will sadly, but very likely come to pass, when your DH is no longer around (and of course most of us do outlive our parents). Who remains in your inner circle?
Watching things unfold with my MIL, I've decided the real question is "who would come to visit you if you were in a nursing home? To maybe bring you something good to eat or some books to read?"

Teacher Terry

6-7-19, 6:36pm

My mom and FIL outlived all their friends. My mom had her younger sister left. A lot of my friends are younger than me which is good.

Chicken lady

6-7-19, 7:28pm

If my spouse dies, emotionally things will be horrible. I cannot imagine any depth or breadth of friendship that would change that. I have given my dh strict instructions not to die. The grandfather whom he physically resembles lived to 101. He outlived two wives and a girlfriend.

but someday we will be old, and we will live with my son. My daughter in law has promised to take care of me. We may live with them here if they decide to retire back to our farm - the girls think this is a great idea. They have offered to provide financial assistance.

Plans change....

catherine, how many boxes of documents do you have? I am not talking about a closet full of keepsakes or a packed garage. I have literally been fighting a battle against pathological hoarding for more than a decade. It is a long and difficult journey.

Here is the connection between my reluctance to go to lunch and my hoarding (also, i don’t want to go to lunch):
I have to remember to ask for no straw. If I get a straw, I will spend half of my energy during the meal trying to figure out if I will be able to leave it behind to be thrown in the trash or if I can discretely take it home to reuse for something. I need to make a careful choice about what to order based on portion size. If I mess up, I will have to eat more than I want (possibly to the point of discomfort or queasiness) or have leftovers. Leftovers have to go somewhere. if I forget my reusable container, I will be faced with an agonizing choice between wasting food and taking home a plastic or styrofoam container which I might not be able to discard. If I remember my reusable container I will have to deal with the judgement and possible embarrassment of my lunch date when I pull it out of my purse. I didn’t want to go out to lunch in the first place!

Yppej

6-7-19, 7:41pm

Portion sizes can be tricky. Can you hang out in the park with your friends so you see what you're getting from food trucks vs going to restaurants?

Chicken lady

6-7-19, 7:55pm

I don’t have friends.

i don’t want to hang out.

last week, I saw a coworker through a store window - I deliberately went in, said hi, and talked to her about a mutual student for about 10 minutes.

in February dh and I went out to dinner with another couple (the Christmas party couple) in March, we went for a short hike together and had beer and iced tea at a pub. Sunday, dh and I are going to see the play that the wife is in.

when I am taking pottery classes I talk to other people at the studio. I have been trying very hard to learn some names.

that covers non-family socialization for the calendar year if you don’t count conversations that take place at work or with people like library staff, checkout clerks, and craft fair customers.

Chicken lady

6-7-19, 8:11pm

Ok, I do have friends, but here is how my friendships work - people show up at my house, and I either stop what I am doing and visit with them, involve them in what I am doing and visit with them, or apologize and keep doing the thing I need to be doing.

i have a really good friend who lives in Cleveland. One summer she lived in my barn. When she is going to be driving down 71, she emails and asks to stop by or spend the night. If at all possible, I say yes. I buy some wine, she cooks some meat for my dh, we have a nice time. She leaves, and we don’t talk again until the next time she’s going to be driving down 71....

if I really like you, I will say you should come out to visit some time. I will say it many times. Maybe I will tell you when I have new baby goats (by e-mail) Eventually, an existing friend or one of my children will clue you in that you should actually just come to my house some time when you are bored.

Teacher Terry

6-7-19, 11:38pm

I have had 2 best friends one is dead and one is alive. I have done caregiving. I really hope you rescind your request to your children. It’s a huge burden and they will suffer to fulfill your request.

ApatheticNoMore

6-8-19, 1:50am

I don't see what friendship has to do with caretaking at all. I mean if the caretaking is at all serious, friends do not sign up for that, and I think it would be crazy to expect them too.

Chicken lady

6-8-19, 5:31am

Teacher Terry, you are falling into the “everyone is me” trap again. (What is the point of a couch with removable cushions if you aren’t going to build forts? - the first time my heart grandson vaulted over the back of my couch, flipped onto the seat and landed on the floor, I said “hang on! We need some blankets on the floor in front of the couch!)

i have made no requests. This is the plan my children have presented me with when caring for their grandparents comes up in conversation.

This is my plan:
My mother will care for my father, there is money for assistance, my father’s best friends are heath care professionals my age. When my father is gone, I HOPE my mother will move in with me. Dh says our next renovation project is “your mother’s room” He’s been calling it “your mother’s room” since the day our oldest left for college.

my mother cared for her parents in their home. For years. While living ten minutes away. There was a weekly maid and at the end there was hospice. My mother in-law never missed an opportunity to tell us (and on one horrible occasion my mother) that my mother was wasting her life and should put them in a care home. Mil has selected her assisted living/end of life care facility (she also put her father there) and if she doesn’t go when she has a choice I will have no hesitation or remorse sending her there when she doesn’t. Dh and his siblings may feel differently, but dh knows that if I am alive, she will not be moving to our area. (We live 9-11 hours away from the rest of his family) If my fil doesn’t move to the facility with mil while she is alive, he may be a concern. I know his hope is to fall while patching the roof and die instantly on impact or something similar.

as I said, plans change.

catherine

6-8-19, 7:08am

catherine, how many boxes of documents do you have? I am not talking about a closet full of keepsakes or a packed garage. I have literally been fighting a battle against pathological hoarding for more than a decade. It is a long and difficult journey.

It sounds like your fear is waste, CL. Not that you want to hold on to the straw for emotional reasons, but that you don't want to see it thrown away. Same with the food. I really, really could not have had you see my dumpster last week. DH and I kept saying over and over... "This is a shame" as we threw away a ton of perfectly good things.

As for my documents, I still have tax records going back to 1976. I still have cancelled checks going back to that same period of time.. I was able to scan and send a picture of the check I wrote to my former HS friend, who chaired our first reunion, as a joke when he became chairman of our 50th reunion.

I even saved past due notices of bills from when we were in the crapper throughout most of the 80s and part of the 90s. Talk about holding on to bad energy!! I still have them in the basement, even after throwing away lamps and good dishes. I have the original mortgage papers from the cottage my great-uncle and aunt bought in 1910. I have my uncle's copies of Boys Life to which he was a contributing writer--and keep in mind that I had no relationship with my uncle--first of all he wasn't a blood relative--he was married to my aunt, and second he died when I was 3. I have every letter from every friend and relative. I have a little collection box for memorabilia I get, like postcards from my sweet DIL who is really into sending postcards, or scribblings from my grandkids and I add those to the pile.

Yesterday I finally threw out my stepfather's navy yearbook. He has no progeny to send it to. But I felt very bad--as if I were throwing out a piece of his soul, since he has no one left to remember his life.

No wonder one of my hobbies is Ancestry.com

I have my weekly pay stubs for every job I ever had going back to the job I got at NBC in 1973.

Oh, and then there's the box of diaries I've kept since starting them in October 1964 (still writing, but I've gone digital on that.)

In answer to your question, I'm probably down to 8 boxes of documents and 6 boxes of photo albums--but half of the photo albums are my MILs, and I don't feel comfortable throwing those away either. DH was throwing away his memorabilia, including master tape versions of TV shows he produced. I ran out to the garbage and rescued a couple. He caught me and yelled at me saying that the equipment they run on is obsolete, but that didn't stop me from saving them.

So while that hoard isn't impeding my life yet (it will if my son makes me remove them from "his" basement--because I have NO room for them in Grand Isle), I still consider it to be irrational behavior on my part.

Chicken lady

6-8-19, 7:38am

Yes, that is hoarder processing. But it doesn’t sound like your problem is severe.

ONE of my fears is waste. Sentimental stuff is also a huge problem. And “thrift”. And prepping for what if, and prepping for other people. When dh grandfather was in WWII, they issued him, as part of his first aid kit, a little round tin of prophylactics. I have the empty tin. I rescued two rough drafts of dh doctoral thesis. They are printed double spaced on one side of the paper in print that shows the dot matrix. He has a bound final copy. I have locks of hair from first haircuts that I didn’t label and would need dna testing to link to a child. There is currently enough sugar in my pantry to can fruit and pickles for a family of five for a year. Because even though I rarely can any more and only two people live here now, I keep buying huge bags of sugar on sale.

Here is how I can see being more social helping with the hoarding: maybe there is some guy out there who would think an empty WWII condom tin was really cool. I could give it to him.

Gardnr

6-8-19, 8:23am

I can't comprehend any of this.....I find the behaviors fascinating (from a psychology perspectivei) although thinking of myself doing any of this gives me the heebie jeebies.

razz

6-8-19, 8:41am

I can't comprehend any of this.....I find the behaviors fascinating (from a psychology perspectivei) although thinking of myself doing any of this gives me the heebie jeebies.

True for me as well except I still have all the old vinyl LP's, baby congratulation cards and cards of sympathy for DH's passing and his letters to me before we were married. I moved too many times to have retained much more or even thought about hoarding.

JaneV2.0

6-8-19, 8:47am

I've often thought there should be a designated repository for genealogically related items--maybe in Utah, run by the LDS? So that family heirlooms wouldn't have to be destroyed. As someone who's dabbled in genealogy, that destruction drives me to despair.

I'm a lousy housekeeper, but even I have no trouble trashing old bills and tax documents.

Gardnr

6-8-19, 10:00am

True for me as well except I still have all the old vinyl LP's, baby congratulation cards and cards of sympathy for DH's passing and his letters to me before we were married. I moved too many times to have retained much more or even thought about hoarding.

DH and I each have 1 box of mementos and they are labeled. Neither of us have looked in our box even once (I think we did this in 2003. We do have our HS yearbooks. He has retained his Star Trek VHS collection and like you, we still have my vinyl-he never bought any. I have a grand-nephew who started a rock band at age 12 (now 16 1/2). I let him take what he wanted when he was 14 as his Dad had gifted him a turntable. I'm waiting for him to want more-according to my sister/his Grandma, he didn't want to selfishly take too many. So here they sit until he understands that I meant "take anything you want". He's smart, he took the best 6:)

When my BIL died tragically in 2007, I was flying out to be with my sister every 5th weekend for 6 months. It helped her a LOT to consider 1 box that never had to go and would always be there. It brought her some joyful memories to make decisions on that 1 box and made it easier/comforting to get rid of many items.

I hung onto our wedding cards for 25 years. A shoebox full. I read each and every card and into the recycle bin it went. I gave away my wedding dress after 15y I think-I had loaned it to brides who could not afford a gown but dreamed of one....then the thrift store benefited from the next bride.

I am grateful I'm not a keeper.

Teacher Terry

6-8-19, 11:02am

I have helped care for both parents and a couple we were good friends with and both were sick. Because of us they all got to remain in their homes. My siblings helped with my mom and not my dad. Our friends got to stay together an extra 2 years with us going over twice a day. Finally we had a 3 week cruise and she went to a home and he to live with his son. I will not burden my children no matter what they say. They have one life and I want them to enjoy it.

Teacher Terry

6-8-19, 11:11am

I am not a keeper anymore either. Cards, yearbooks,etc are all gone. My kids want me to keep the photo albums and pick through themselves once I am gone. None are hoarders so will dispose of what is left. I hate waste so tend to give decent stuff to thrift stores either by multiple trips or having a truck come to the house. We had a truck come in 2012 after having 2 garage sale and selling on CL. We rarely buy stuff anymore. We are much leaner now so can easily transport by car now.

Chicken lady

6-8-19, 11:35am

If caring for you would be a burden to your children, I am glad you will not ask them to do that.

again, I didn’t ask. I was told. And again, plans change.

i refuse to dog sit for more than a couple of hours.

a cruise is my idea of hell on earth.

the thought of being with my mother every day brings me joy. Even if I could only hold her hand and talk to her and hope she could hear me, even if she forgets who I am and yells at me, I would not want to be anywhere else.

the thought of having to care for my father gives me nightmares. If he were left alone, he would have to go to residential care. I love him, but if I had to take care of him, I might kill him. Also, if anything happens to my mother, we are probably going to have to put him on suicide watch. In the absence of supervision, At best, he will stop taking his meds and drink himself to death.

Chicken lady

6-8-19, 11:39am

Also, I am a keeper AND a hoarder. Like ultralite being a foodie AND a binge eater. There is nothing wrong with being a keeper.

conversations like this are why I don’t try to be more social. The percentage of people out there who would neither try to fix me or enable me has got to be small.

CathyA

6-8-19, 12:35pm

Chicken lady, As I read through this, I feel your pain. I am a bit of a loaner and a bit of a hoarder. I analyze everything constantly. Many people just throw things out, without thinking at all. You and I analyze everything.......is this useful to someone, will this hurt the earth, is there someone on this earth who would enjoy having this thing, etc., etc. I still have my children's umbilical stumps and their baby teeth. It's been a long journey for me to be able to let go of things, so I can empathize with you.
What has worked for me a bit is to start slow. Look at a bunch of things you feel you really can't part with, and pick the lowest meaningful things. It's also good if you have a Goodwill store, or a place locally that accepts things for the disadvantaged. That always helps me......knowing that those things will benefit someone.

I think hoarding is a combination of several things.......heredity (DH and his family are hoarders), what you've been though in your life (some of our older parents hoarded because they went through the depression/war), and some of us hoard for emotional reasons. I think I need to eat all the time because my mother only fed me every 3-4 hours as an infant. I think what happens to us when we are very young has a much bigger impact on us as we go through life. What was your relationship with your parents like? Was your family poor? Did you parents substitute "things" for love? It can be very complicated. When I was young, I would save everything that I broke.......feeling like it would be sad/lonely if I threw it out. In actuality, I think I was putting the feelings I was having about me, onto all the objects around me. I'm just saying.......hoarding can be a very complicated issue.

One thing I've noticed in forcing myself to get rid of some things is that at first, I would have panic attacks on the way home from donating things........but I got over it. I still can't get rid of many things, but it has become easier to discriminate between really important things, and those things that are just feeding my insecurities.

What do you feel when you maybe try not to buy sugar on sale, even though you have a ton of it in storage already? Do you feel anxious? Do you feel excited? Have you tried not to buy it, or do you always give in to the urge?
I say start small and work from there. In my opinion, it's okay to think through what our trash will do to the earth. And if you can donate some of your things, start small and work up to bigger things. Just try to think of how it might help others.
Have you ever had counseling for your hoarding problem? Like I said, it can be a multi-faceted problem. It obviously is serving some need you have in you. And maybe if you investigated what that need might be, and other ways of filling it, it might help.
I'm not sure being more social would help. But I'm saying that as an un-social person. I think pushing myself to be more social would raise my anxiety and then I'd eat more. haha

Anyhow.......I do feel your pain and hope you can find a compromise that makes you feel better.

Teacher Terry

6-8-19, 12:37pm

My dad had a massive stroke at 59 which totally changed his personality. He went from being happy go lucky life of the party that never swore to a very grumpy verbally abusive with a very foul mouth. He couldn’t help it. We bought the house next door and I helped my mom care for him for 14 years. We loved him but sometimes hated him. We taught the kids that you don’t desert someone because they are sick. We were relieved when he died. It took my mom about 5 years to miss him and then she missed the real old him not the sick one. If your mom dies first your dad doesn’t need to be watched like a child. It will be up to him to live the way he wants. It’s a burden to care for any old person. If you care for your mom you will find out. If her mind goes sometimes you won’t like her and then you will feel guilty. Fun times! My MIL was a hoarder with a filthy house with lots of friends. They knew and didn’t judge. She didn’t invite them over.

Chicken lady

6-8-19, 12:50pm

i have a thing about counseling. I have talked about it here before.

intellectually I understand exactly what is happening with me and why. I still have to work through it and it is still hard (just like intellectually you can understand why you are fat and out if shape and what you have to do to change it, but you still have to address it every day and at every meal.)

I think going to a counselor would be like going to a nutritionist - you’d leave all psyched up with a plan, but then you still have to buy the food, cook, and stick to the menu. That’s the struggle. I’m good at plans. And I have an online support group I “talk” with every day.

i don’t buy sugar when I already have sugar, I buy a giant bag of sugar when I run out of sugar. Because it is cheaper per pound and uses the least packaging. Sometimes I get around this by having someone else (like dh) buy sugar. But eventually I find myself sugarless facing the giant bag on sale.... and then there we are for the next two years. It’s just one of many examples.

again, I have a support group. I was really wondering about the social thing. Pretty much everybody in my support group is a socially isolated introvert (that’s why we joined a support group full of people we don’t have to see or hear who are accessible from our house 24/7)

Chicken lady

6-8-19, 12:52pm

Teacher Terry

6-8-19, 12:57pm

No but she had a happy life and great friends. Through the years all of them had been there. She was one of 5 children with a divorced mother that was a waitress. No money for toys, etc. Very poor but loving mom. She was trying to fill that hole. She over bought food to.

iris lilies

6-8-19, 1:09pm

Teacher Terry, I missed your post.

so, all the friends didn’t help. But she didn’t invite them over....

so maybe it's the inviting over.

which is actually the optimal friend experience for me, because I don’t have to leave my comfort zone. Except, nobody wants to come out here. I have to lure them with baby animals.
Baby goats are indeed a valuable tool for luring visitors.

Only tangentially related—DH’s father died last December. Hours later, DH’s brother and DH worked with a mother goat to deliver 4 kids. It provided A death-to-life message on his FB page and many people commented, of course! because baby goats!

For several days two of the four were borderline living (were taken into the farmhouse and nursed) but then they died. Then, surprisingly, the other two died, the ones that looked like they were out of the woods from the beginning.

The goats are always a perk of visiting his family farm.

catherine

6-8-19, 1:25pm

The percentage of people out there who would neither try to fix me or enable me has got to be small.

This is such a great insight. Accepting people for who they are without trying to fix or enable is difficult, especially if you love them and you feel you know what's best for them. But people aren't projects, and no one is going to be happy being made to feel like one.

Teacher Terry

6-8-19, 2:27pm

No one tried to fix my MIL. Her friends just accepted her as did we. Maybe you are underestimating people. Forums are different than real friends in that way I think.

Chicken lady

6-8-19, 3:07pm

iris lilies

6-8-19, 7:22pm

Forums are different than real friends in what way?

i do much better with people on forums.

People on forums understand that I cannot read their tone of voice or facial expression.
real life does not allow you time to read back over your words and edit before sharing them.
people on forums are more likely to ask for/accept clarification.
people on forums cannot see me, so I can read their words and go away and come back later.
people on forums are not offended if this is a bad time for social interaction and I go do something else.

I have no interest in fixing my friends, what am I, your mother? I want self actualized, mentally and physically healthy friends who are successful in life. While we all have our weaknesses, I am not looking to get involved in anyone’s life to prop them up. This is, of course, changing as we all get older and our health declines.

CL I,wouldn't want to give you advice but I would judge the hell out of your hoarding, silently. Sorry, just sayin’. Yet a beloved cousin of mine is a hoarder. Has always been that since he was a kid. I am kinder to him because he is in my inner circle AND it seems highly unlikely
I will ever have to deal with his hoard..

Chicken lady

6-8-19, 8:05pm

iris lilies

6-8-19, 8:40pm

Ironically, I am usually pretty good at picking up on the silently judging the hell out of me.

although, that may be because I assume it is the default position, and simply wait for it to become less silent or for sufficient reassurance that it is not happening.

I think we would not be friends.

but you wold be cool with that as I am not self actualized or mentally or physically healthy.

I’m sure you are mentally and physically healthy enough to be an acquaintance because I would find your creative projects and your baby goats interesting enough to have conversations about. I would like to look at photos.

I am not myself part of some kind of master race and dont expect all to be perfect, but on the other hand I do tire of the extended company of emotionally fragile people or those always ill with various maladies that require new and endless accommodations.

JaneV2.0

6-8-19, 8:44pm

Chicken lady

6-8-19, 8:49pm

It’s the pinnacle of Mazlow’s hierarchy of needs. It refers to reaching your full potential in all areas of life.

i’m guessing IL’s standards aren’t really that high.

Teacher Terry

6-8-19, 9:04pm

Real friends are different in every way.

iris lilies

6-8-19, 9:12pm

What the hell does self-actualized mean? I admit I snoozed through psychology classes...
If it means self-sufficient, I'm all over that...

ETA: I Googled it. I'm not even in the same universe as "self-actualized." I am a rock star at underachieving. I spent years having teachers and professors tell me I wasn't reaching my potential. Nothing's changed. This life, for me, has essentially been a bye.

By self actualized I mean people have reached their self defined pinnacle of life success. I do not mean people are captains of industry or giants in their fields or those kinds of external measures, I mean people are satisfied with their life. They find life interesting and challenging and they enjoy those life challenges and goals. They successfully negotiate their social,financial, familial and community interactions. And sure, they are self-sufficient, that is part of it.

It wouldn’t matter to me what some professor tells me I could do if only I tried harder or spent more time studying or whatever. That is, unless I really did want to be better at that thing that we’re talking about.

OK here is an example of someone who is not self actualized and I suspect probably never will be, and that is really too bad: there’s a young man on the Mr. Money mustache site who has spent seven years living with a girlfriend and they’ve not had sex in six years. She Wants to get married, he doesn’t want to marry her, he doesn’t want to have kids with her, but he lives his life According to what she wants. He has weak ideas about travel overseas and doing things he is not now doing but he will not change his set up.This is a wasted life in my opinion. This young man is not even 30 years old. I think he will get to be 75 years old and look back and have deep regrets that he never struck out on his own to find his own path. The posters on that side are continuing to yak at him but I think he’s a hopeless case.

iris lilies

6-8-19, 9:12pm

Real friends are different in every way.
I have no idea what this means

iris lilies

6-8-19, 9:18pm

JaneV2.0

6-9-19, 9:12am

But Jane, I find you funny and in real life real life we would have some sort of friendship I think. I believe that you are self actualized in the way that I mean because you do what you want to do pretty much, right? You have pretty much defined your life goals and met them. I know your house is dragging you down and we all have something like that in life but generally speaking you are living the life that you want to live.

Sometimes I agree with that, and other times I berate myself for not having pushed myself more...But I'm impatient with navel-gazing in general and figure that, if there is reincarnation, I'm primed and ready. If not, phfttttt. We'd likely be friends, as we're both direct and unimpressed with drama.

Gardnr

6-9-19, 10:16am

Sometimes I agree with that, and other times I berate myself for not having pushed myself more...But I'm impatient with navel-gazing in general and figure that, if there is reincarnation, I'm primed and ready. If not, phfttttt. We'd likely be friends, as we're both direct and unimpressed with drama.

Do you think you should have pushed more because you said no to yourself? Or is it because you said no to others expectations.

I ask because of the shoulds dished on me: You're so smart you should go to grad school. Why would you stop your career instead of climbing to the top of Nursing Leadership? Instead of recruiting for your new boss, you should apply for that position because you are well-qualified. You're so good with kids, you really need to have some. You make plenty of money and can afford a big new house-you should build. Why are you driving that old car?

I'm 58. No kids. No grad school. No CNO position. No new Director position. HAPPY and CONTENT as can be.

Well, I did upgrade the car after 17y. Wrote a check and love my 2016 C300. It is my last car purchase. We did upgrade our home this month. It got a fresh exterior paint job-yup, hired it done!

Not yet counting the weeks till my retirement date: 60th Birthday May 20 2021. (well, If I work 1 shift in June I get 1 more month of health insurance for $72 so might do that:~)

And to use a country phrase: I'm happier than a pig in shit:D

JaneV2.0

6-9-19, 10:19am

I wouldn't mind living in a low-key intentional community, wherein you had a loose support system and generally looked out for each other, without having to be knee-deep in other people all the time.

There's an organization called Villages that seems to serve a similar purpose. https://villagesnw.org/

JaneV2.0

6-9-19, 10:24am

"Do you think you should have pushed more because you said no to yourself? Or is it because you said no to others expectations."

Probably because, left to my own devices, I would be perpetually sitting in a corner with a book. I seem to have been gifted with no other ambitions to speak of. Which may or may not be a blessing.

Teacher Terry

6-9-19, 11:05am

Forums only know what you type. If you have really close friends they know you intimately. Forums are fun but not a replacement.

Tammy

6-9-19, 11:10am

It doesn’t matter really what we choose to do with our lives - as long as we have autonomy to choose and we’re not hurting other people.

I despise social expectations.

ApatheticNoMore

6-9-19, 1:05pm

It doesn’t matter really what we choose to do with our lives - as long as we have autonomy to choose and we’re not hurting other people.

I despise social expectations.

yea really, and a lot of things are "all other things held constant" assumptions anyway, social life sure that's great, but we may be too overwhelmed with other crises to focus on that anyway (I am lately, all I really want sometimes is a quiet hobby. Keep in mind I spend time with my boyfriend and probably keep the place somewhat cleaner because of that too - I'm not a hoarder, but can be messy).

Teacher Terry

6-9-19, 2:42pm

Jane, the village concept is interesting. There is a place in upstate New York (Ithaca?) where you can buy a house or condo so it’s slightly different. I had a party for 13 people yesterday and today I am exhausted. I feel my age today.

kappydell

6-9-19, 7:52pm

Chicken Lady, as I read it you are wondering if you should try to be more social? Because somebody that wrote a book/paper/article implied you were not sodcial enough? I am an intentional un-social person, having worked 25 yrs plus working with the public. (It also made me a bit of a cynic.) It doesn't mean I don't help someone that needs it, I just won't hang around with them afterward, LOL. Seems you are worrying about someone else's lable they put on you. Don't fret about it, ain't nobody in the whole world 100% "normal" and if they say they are, they are lying. God bless those who step outside the shackles that society puts on folks with their labels. Those who dare to be different often become great. Don't sweat the small stuff.

mschrisgo2

6-9-19, 8:32pm

Interesting.... I know when my friend was coming in every day to let my dogs out while I was at work, I kept my house cleaner, because I didn’t want her to have to come into a mess, and “because I’m going out to the driveway anyway, might as well take the garbage and recycling to the cans”

... and, because, like Bae, left to my own devices very long, I have stuff for many projects in process all over the place... I know that’s not the same as hoarding per se, but many people looking at it wouldn’t see the difference.

CL, have you ever read “Refuse to Choose” by Barbara Sher? I am often reminded of her books when you write.