View Full Version : I realize cruelty is the point
But, geez, when did we become a nation of such monstrously awful people?
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/inside-a-texas-building-where-the-government-is-holding-immigrant-children
So, on Wednesday, we received reports from children of a lice outbreak in one of the cells where there were about twenty-five children, and what they told us is that six of the children were found to have lice. And so they were given a lice shampoo, and the other children were given two combs and told to share those two combs, two lice combs, and brush their hair with the same combs, which is something you never do with a lice outbreak. And then what happened was one of the combs was lost, and Border Patrol agents got so mad that they took away the children’s blankets and mats. They weren’t allowed to sleep on the beds, and they had to sleep on the floor on Wednesday night as punishment for losing the comb. So you had a whole cell full of kids who had beds and mats at one point, not for everybody but for most of them, who were forced to sleep on the cement.
What's next? Smallpox infected blankets for these kids?
rosarugosa
6-23-19, 7:48pm
That is so horrible.
Teacher Terry
6-23-19, 8:07pm
Plus now they all have lice. The average person can do all the protesting, etc we want to but the bottom line is we are not capable of stopping a immoral government. People wonder why the average German didn’t stop the holocaust. Granted some people risked life and limb to rescue people. I never thought I would see this happen here.
I am very much struggling with this, as with so many people. I keep looking for more I can do, I never thought I wouldn't know what to do,..
Teacher Terry
6-23-19, 9:17pm
Other than calling and emailing all our representatives I don’t know what else we can do.
gimmethesimplelife
6-23-19, 11:48pm
One reason I am afraid of the United States? The criminalization of giving assistance to migrants such as food and water. I will be honest and state right here and now I don't know all the details about this as I am too upset by this to face them just yet. I'll refrain from my standard what kind of country is this until I know more but criminalizing handing water to migrants? How does one forgive America for this? I find myself unable to do so. Rob
Ultralight
6-24-19, 5:47am
But, geez, when did we become a nation of such monstrously awful people?
To be fair, it is mostly just Republicans that are the monstrously awful people.
To be fair, it is mostly just Republicans that are the monstrously awful people.
That’s true. In last year’s convocation at the Palace of Malice we decided immigration policy should take priority over climate change or online dating as a misery maximizing strategy.
All hail the Dark Lord Cheney!
Plus now they all have lice. The average person can do all the protesting, etc we want to but the bottom line is we are not capable of stopping a immoral government. People wonder why the average German didn’t stop the holocaust. Granted some people risked life and limb to rescue people. I never thought I would see this happen here.
I've commented on this--The average German probably was as horrified as we are. I am absolutely sickened by what we have so swiftly become. And as long as Trump and McConnell are in power, we are powerless. Maybe we should emulate the citizens of Hong Kong.
That’s true. In last year’s convocation at the Palace of Malice we decided immigration policy should take priority over climate change or online dating as a misery maximizing strategy.
The republicans have gotten so weak at creating policy ideas that the best they could do for immigration was kiddie koncentration kamps?
iris lilies
6-24-19, 10:57am
That’s true. In last year’s convocation at the Palace of Malice we decided immigration policy should take priority over climate change or online dating as a misery maximizing strategy.
All hail the Dark Lord Cheney!
is that what you voted for at the convention? I favored the proposals for gender identity persecution and promotion of harmful-to-the-earth mining operations.
See, even us Repubs are not one monolithic voting block.
iris lilies
6-24-19, 11:15am
The republicans have gotten so weak at creating policy ideas that the best they could do for immigration was kiddie koncentration kamps?
You know, gubmnt institutions can be and often are mediocre-to -awful.
i never understand why ya’ll want the impersonal omnipotent hand of government to run everything.
https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/doctor-compares-conditions-immigrant-holding-centers-torture-facilities/story?id=63879031
I guess this is what republicans mean when they blather on about family values.
the teens spoke of having no access to hand washing during their entire time in custody. She compared it to being "tantamount to intentionally causing the spread of disease."
Many teen mothers in custody described not having the ability to wash their children’s bottle.
And children who were older than 6 months were not provided age-appropriate meal options, including no pureed foods necessary for a child's development, Lucio Sevier reported.
lawyers for the Trump administration last week argued that providing basic necessities, like soap, was not a requirement of the Flores agreement. Three judges on the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals repeatedly asked if the lawyers if they were arguing that "safe and sanitary" did not include the ability to sleep soundly or use soap.
At the Clint facility, Binford described conditions that included...guards creating a "child boss" to help keep the other kids in line by rewarding them with extra food.
Ultralight
6-24-19, 11:46am
You know, gubmnt institutions can be and often are mediocre-to -awful.
i never understand why ya’ll want the impersonal omnipotent hand of government to run everything.
Corporations are much less cruel. Just look at America's private prisons! Talk about a success story. ;)
Teacher Terry
6-24-19, 11:49am
IL, I don’t find any of this to be worthy of sarcasm. Kids are dying in custody and we are taking better care of animals in shelters than kids. It’s beyond reprehensible.
Ultralight
6-24-19, 11:55am
IL, I don’t find any of this to be worthy of sarcasm. Kids are dying in custody and we are taking better care of animals in shelters than kids. It’s beyond reprehensible.
I use sarcasm to ridicule policies and comments I dislike or disagree with.
There are protests scheduled for July. If people showed up in Hong Kong numbers, I bet something would change. https://www.lightsforliberty.org/
gimmethesimplelife
6-24-19, 1:25pm
IL, I don’t find any of this to be worthy of sarcasm. Kids are dying in custody and we are taking better care of animals in shelters than kids. It’s beyond reprehensible.Thank You, TT. Rob
IL, I don’t find any of this to be worthy of sarcasm.
Sure you do, the title of the thread is sarcastic but something you seem to agree with so you obviously find some sarcasm to be worthy. It might be more appropriate to say you don't care for sarcasm which counters the approved variety, or perhaps the witty sarcasm which counters the mean spirited variety.
Actually I didn't intend the title to be sarcastic.
https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2018/10/the-cruelty-is-the-point/572104/
We can hear the spectacle of cruel laughter throughout the Trump era. There were the border-patrol agents cracking up at the crying immigrant children separated from their families, and the Trump adviser who delighted white supremacists when he mocked a child with Down syndrome who was separated from her mother. There were the police who laughed uproariously when the president encouraged them to abuse suspects, and the Fox News hosts mocking a survivor of the Pulse Nightclub massacre (and in the process inundating him with threats), the survivors of sexual assault protesting to Senator Jeff Flake, the women who said the president had sexually assaulted them, and the teen survivors of the Parkland school shooting. There was the president mocking Puerto Rican accents shortly after thousands were killed and tens of thousands displaced by Hurricane Maria, the black athletes protesting unjustified killings by the police, the women of the #MeToo movement who have come forward with stories of sexual abuse, and the disabled reporter whose crime was reporting on Trump truthfully. It is not just that the perpetrators of this cruelty enjoy it; it is that they enjoy it with one another. Their shared laughter at the suffering of others is an adhesive that binds them to one another, and to Trump.
(links to the original stories are in the article)
A lot of people believe, without any sarcasm at all, that the point of this environmental despoiling, refugee tormenting, white supremacy approving, wealth redistributing, sword rattling regime is cruelty. Why else would you hire the likes of Stephen Miller and Steve Bannon?
I read that Trump just opined that U.S. wages are too high. I guess the middle class isn't disappearing fast enough to suit him.
A lot of people believe, without any sarcasm at all, that the point of this environmental despoiling, refugee tormenting, white supremacy approving, wealth redistributing, sword rattling regime is cruelty..
And we let them get away with that belief because it makes them happy, although it's probably not in our best interests in the long run. I guess benevolence always comes at a cost.
I guess you could posit incompetence...all those wife beaters and soon-to-be felons just kept getting hired somehow. :D
But that doesn't explain the daily drumbeat of abuse of the vulnerable. I guess he still wants to execute the Central Park Five, even though they were exonerated. Typical.
iris lilies
6-24-19, 2:38pm
I use sarcasm to ridicule policies and comments I dislike or disagree with.
i think good satire, a tool of sarcasm, is a valuable teaching tool.
is that what you voted for at the convention? I favored the proposals for gender identity persecution and promotion of harmful-to-the-earth mining operations.
See, even us Repubs are not one monolithic voting block.
The liberal wing of the party will never understand that half measures like strip mining will never achieve the universal basic suffering we are aiming for.
AOC has the right idea. Primary the deviationists!
The republicans have gotten so weak at creating policy ideas that the best they could do for immigration was kiddie koncentration kamps?
We thought about offering all kinds of free stuff by soaking the rich, and then throwing indignant tantrums if anyone questions whether there is an adequate supply of the rich to cover it all. But that seemed like too much of a stretch.
i think good satire, a tool of sarcasm, is a valuable teaching tool.
I agree. I love good satire. That's why I love political comedy.(SNL, Capitol Steps, Comedy Central).
We thought about offering all kinds of free stuff by soaking the rich, and then throwing indignant tantrums if anyone questions whether there is an adequate supply of the rich to cover it all. But that seemed like too much of a stretch.
I suppose in the republican world where everything is either black or white with no possibility of shades of gray it makes sense that the only choices they saw were either soak the rich to benefit migrant children or lock those kids up and treat them with an absolute lack of humanity. I guess the fiction of compassionate conservatism is now officially dead much the same as fiscally responsible conservatism died a couple of years ago.
Our concentration camps are so good people are climbing walls and crossing rivers to get into them. Or are they just trying to get here in time for all the free stuff to be handed out after the next election?
i hope they know the majority of politicians never keep their campaign promises. Maybe it’s an inside joke.
I bet a lot of the Central American refugees were sold a pack of lies about how many opportunities there would be in the US by the coyotes who led them across miles and charged them for the trip. I guess what I don't get is why Mexico did not detain more of them. Again, corruption and bribery might be the primary reason.
The coyotes did tell them lies to get them to emigrate. They decided to leave Central America and in many cases travelled a thousand miles before they met a Mexican coyote.
Our concentration camps are so good people are climbing walls and crossing rivers to get into them..
Sure, so they had this fantasy of "The American Dream" in their head when they started their journey, and then the rude awakening was when they were torn from their children and their children were abused in ways that most good people wouldn't abuse animals. I guess that's a "good" concentration camp. I'm sure that's what they expected when they crossed the border. Losing their children and having their children abused was exactly why they crossed the border.
Teacher Terry
6-24-19, 6:33pm
As always there are a few people that were not only born without a empathy gene but think mistreating children is fine. Blame poor desperate starving parents for trying to feed their kids and have a better life. Europeans came legally and illegally for the same reason many years ago. Most of us are descendants of them.
As always there are a few people that were not only born without a empathy gene but think mistreating children is fine. Blame poor desperate starving parents for trying to feed their kids and have a better life. Europeans came legally and illegally for the same reason many years ago. Most of us are descendants of them.
+1. "There but for the grace of God go I."
Ultralight
6-24-19, 7:17pm
I guess you could posit incompetence...all those wife beaters and soon-to-be felons just kept getting hired somehow. :D
I am a liberal, but you lost me here. What?!
Ultralight
6-24-19, 7:18pm
The liberal wing of the party will never understand that half measures like strip mining will never achieve the universal basic suffering we are aiming for.
AOC has the right idea. Primary the deviationists!
LOL!
I am a liberal, but you lost me here. What?!
Jane is pointing out that among people hired, or at least selected for, high level positions in the trump administration a significantly higher portion of them have issues of domestic violence or have been indicted/convicted of felonies since accepting their positions, as compared to the general population of the country.
We thought about offering all kinds of free stuff by soaking the rich, and then throwing indignant tantrums if anyone questions whether there is an adequate supply of the rich to cover it all. But that seemed like too much of a stretch.
Apparently torturing small children is more expensive than treating them humanely. Like I said at the beginning, cruelty is entirely the point of this. Apparently trump and his supporters think kids with brown skin from other countries don't have heartbeats.
https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/immigration-border-crisis/trump-admin-s-tent-cities-cost-more-keeping-migrant-kids-n884871?fbclid=IwAR3T_7wjwlz048vv_EFDDBN8U3QaNG5HI btILIiHg0994EyO_dFqG6RpV5I
dado potato
6-25-19, 1:28am
Kishi Bashi, violinist, singer/songwriter... I was listening & watching videos on YouTube related to his album "Omoiyari"...
Kishi Bashi observed that today humanity is locked in a struggle "between cruelty and compassion".
I find myself humming at the end of day a wobbly song, originally written by a French transportation worker, en route to a new life in England after the bloody week in May 1871 that crushed the Paris Commune.
...'Tis the final conflict,
Let each stand in his place...
Teacher Terry
6-25-19, 11:08am
My mom’s grandfather came illegally from Germany. He was in the German army in winter with no boots. He was freezing and starving. He had a twin brother with a wife and baby and they all had passports. His brother told him to travel with his family and mail the passport back once he was here.
The only thing I can think to do is call them on it. But the problem is that they are not engaged in dialog, but monologue. If you don't agree with them, the conversation ends. It’s the only way they can justify their bullying and inhumanity. Very like the beginning of hitler and co.
I think the only really effective thing we can do is to vote with our wallets, Don't go to their hotels, restaurants, etc. and tell them so. Also laugh at them when appropriate. Mel Brooks and others have pointed out how effective that can be...
But they're scared and greedy, both powerful motivators.
I see that the progressive wing of the Democratic party are against legislation to increase funding to improve conditions at the border camps, and the party's new leader, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez has expressed solidarity with the workers of a furniture company who are walking out rather than produce beds for the kids.
Oh, sorry to be off topic, let me fix that. ......Damn Republicans!
Teacher Terry
6-25-19, 5:50pm
Border patrol is refusing donations of diapers, soap, toothpaste, etc. Money isn’t the issue.
We're already spending $775/night per kid. How much more money do we need to spend? I stayed at a very nice hotel in Chicago last week for 1/3 of that cost.
And I'm also curious what well placed republican donors are getting rich soaking the taxpayers for this?
I wish I believed in hell so I'd know where to consign these miserable excuses for human beings. I devoutly wish they get exactly what they deserve. Sooner, rather than later.
gimmethesimplelife
6-25-19, 7:19pm
We're already spending $775/night per kid. How much more money do we need to spend? I stayed at a very nice hotel in Chicago last week for 1/3 of that cost.
And I'm also curious what well placed republican donors are getting rich soaking the taxpayers for this?Whoah.....say what? How on earth does the "care" they are getting total USD $775/night????? That total is enough to have a basic but decent life in Phohm Pehn (sp?) for a month! Rob
Whoah.....say what? How on earth does the "care" they are getting total USD $775/night????? That total is enough to have a basic but decent life in Phohm Pehn (sp?) for a month! Rob
I've seen that figure, too. Someone suggested they house them in one of Trump's hotels. I don't know how accurate that figure is, but I suspect there's a lot of grifting going on.
flowerseverywhere
6-25-19, 9:03pm
So what is the solution to this crisis?
more than $775 per detained child?
is it OK to have the older children caring for the little ones?
is it OK for children to sleep on concrete or dirt floors?
from my years working in mental health I can attest that giving some people even a little unrestrained power can bring out extremely cruel behavior. It sounds like these detention centers are ripe for atrocious abuse to CHILDREN. You know all those babies the Republicans around the country are claiming to save? Well these are real live babies with heartbeats.
And anyone know how Ann Frank died? She died of Typhus in an overcrowded concentration camp. Poor hygiene and overcrowding makes these camps a breeding ground for a major epidemic.
But the biggest questions I have is why is this crisis so much bigger with Trump administration?
if this was such a priority why was not immigration the top priority when the Republicans had control of the house and senate?
I thought Mexico was going to pay for a big beautiful wall.
A few more questions related to the current state of affairs
isn’t Anyone concerned that our deficit is soaring under the current administration? That every time a tariff is imposed the American consumers are paying more at the store?
That no Republican has come forth with a comprehensive health care plan that Trump promised would be cheaper, cover more things for more people?
dado potato
6-26-19, 3:26am
extremely cruel behavior. It sounds like these detention centers are ripe for atrocious abuse to CHILDREN.
Yes, I agree. At first I could not believe the United States Government was doing this. But now? It is beginning to look like a fact.
Ultralight
6-26-19, 6:13am
As a nation, as a people, we could do so much better.
But sadly, I think a majority of people in America -- mostly in "the real America" -- think: "Good, let these kids suffer. It will deter other parents from bringing their kids here."
I suspect the cost is high because what company would want to be associated with this disaster happening? There are a couple that are run on a profit is all and damn those who care basis. There was an expose on one company awhile ago.
Same thing about the people who are hired to work in such places. You are not going to get highly qualified and trained child care workers. I would even go so far as to say their background checks are suspect. It is purely! a profit making enterprise.
Teacher Terry
6-26-19, 9:57am
It doesn’t cost that much money to provide what little they do to these kids. People are getting rich. The solution is to keep the kids with the parents and provide the basics. Our prisoners are being treated better. Thankfully UL no one I am friends with feels that way.
I am so angry and horrified. I made my ACLU donation this morning and I set it to monthly.
Just in case there is anyone who still doesn’t think that the cruelty is intentional. Donations of soap and the like are being turned away.
https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2019/06/border-patrol-refusing-donations-migrant-children-soap-and-toothpaste.html
Of course it's intentional. See Stephen Miller. Evil incarnate, IMO.
iris lilies
6-26-19, 12:00pm
To me it seems eminently practical and cost effective to keep unsolicited donations from the public out of this. You would have to have a facility to accept, sort, and store all donations. Crap loads of it would have to go to landfills because people are going to give what they are going to give, so that means they’re going to give teddy bears and knitted blankets and whatever random shit they have laying around their house or feel like buying at the ‘mart to make themselves feel good.
I see it all the time around here in my city in dumpsters behind shelters and church feeding stations.
Also, there is the danger aspect of accepting used toiletries for this migrant population. You don’t know how they would be spiked
To me it seems eminently practical and cost effective to keep unsolicited donations from the public out of this.......
I think we both know by now that there's no room in these highly emotional discussions for reasoned discourse on logistics and best practices. Those overactive empathy genes can't absorb it. ;)
To me it seems eminently practical and cost effective to keep unsolicited donations from the public out of this.
Based on my experience and training in disaster response, this is quite true. Mountains of donated goods and self-deployed volunteer labor tend to cause huge logistical pains in the bleep.
Teacher Terry
6-26-19, 2:26pm
I think IL makes a valid point about donations. What are they spending 775/kid on every night? They can afford the basics but intentionally choose not to.
What are they spending 775/kid on every night?
GQ Magazine reports that an anonymous source from Health & Human Services says it costs $775 a night at temporary shelters, NBC News says it costs $259 per night at permanent facilities and as of a few months ago, ICE says it costs approximately $139 a night for the all-in cost at permanent facilities.
Commentators seem to prefer the higher, unsourced number.
Fair enough. Donations and the logistics thereof can be complicated. I've also read that CPB claims they have plenty of soap and such that they've purchased. So the question becomes why aren't they providing it to the kids? Is it "Heckuva Job Brownie" style incompetence, or Stephen Brown style maliciousness? Hopefully inquiring minds in Congress will conduct investigations to find out.
iris lilies
6-26-19, 5:25pm
I think we both know by now that there's no room in these highly emotional discussions for reasoned discourse on logistics and best practices. Those overactive empathy genes can't absorb it. ;)Sigh. Yes.
Teacher Terry
6-26-19, 5:41pm
Alan, they should be reporting the difference between what is being spent instead of being misleading. Still soap, toothpaste anyone?
Alan, they should be reporting the difference between what is being spent instead of being misleading.
My theory is that people with advanced empathy genes really enjoy displaying them. Misleading news reports make them happy and as long as there's a market for misinformation, it will be filled.
gimmethesimplelife
6-26-19, 6:37pm
Yes, I agree. At first I could not believe the United States Government was doing this. But now? It is beginning to look like a fact.I know my takes on the United States have made me less than popular with some folks on this board. So I'll just calmly and collectedly ask one thing: Is this this country we want the United States to be? Rob
iris lilies
6-26-19, 6:57pm
I know my takes on the United States have made me less than popular with some folks on this board. So I'll just calmly and collectedly ask one thing: Is this this country we want the United States to be? Rob
What is “this?”
To respond to your question calmly and collectedly, I would like to see everyone here in this country be here through legal means.
frugal-one
6-26-19, 9:13pm
My theory is that people with advanced empathy genes really enjoy displaying them. Misleading news reports make them happy and as long as there's a market for misinformation, it will be filled.
You need to take your blinders off.
You need to take your blinders off.
OK, thanks for the input.
I can understand the confusion, if you look to the left of this post, you'll notice the big black glasses where blinders would normally be. Those are readers which I find useful for looking more closely at things others won't. I'll keep those if you don't mind. :D
Teacher Terry
6-26-19, 10:25pm
Distorting the facts doesn’t make me happy and it’s condescending for you to assert that empathetic people are disingenuous.
It seems all of could agree on one thing - children should not be kept in cages, should not be denied clean clothing and diapers, and should have adults and not other children looking after them.
What is “this?”
To respond to your question calmly and collectedly, I would like to see everyone here in this country be here through legal means.
To respond to your comment calmly and collectedly, am I correct in understanding that you do not care how children are treated if they have come to our country without specific paperwork that makes them ‘legal’ .
And do i also understand correctly that you do not consider the legal asylum process as codified in US law, which many of these children have used, to be an acceptable method of entering this country?
flowerseverywhere
6-27-19, 4:13am
I so agree. I don’t care if they spend $20 a day or $750. Wrong is wrong.
It seems all of could agree on one thing - children should not be kept in cages, should not be denied clean clothing and diapers, and should have adults and not other children looking after them.
flowerseverywhere
6-27-19, 4:18am
My theory is that people with advanced empathy genes really enjoy displaying them. Misleading news reports make them happy and as long as there's a market for misinformation, it will be filled.
my theory is people can be unbelievably cruel and gleeful when other people suffer. Even innocent children. As long as they have theirs no truth will disrupt their way of thinking.
Studies have shown empathy typically only extends to "us" and not "them". In their book the Dalai Lama and Archbishop Tutu write that the challenge of spiritual growth is learning to extend the circle of one's compassion to all humanity.
.... it’s condescending for you to assert that empathetic people are disingenuous.
I must have gotten it wrong, I was trying to imply that condescending people are often disingenuous when they constantly assert that others lack empathy. Sorry!
iris lilies
6-27-19, 10:50am
To respond to your comment calmly and collectedly, am I correct in understanding that you do not care how children are treated if they have come to our country without specific paperwork that makes them ‘legal’ .
And do i also understand correctly that you do not consider the legal asylum process as codified in US law, which many of these children have used, to be an acceptable method of entering this country?
Well, jp, not really.
Edited to add: now that I have more time I can be more precise.
It is not true that I “do not care how how children are treated. “
It is not true that I “Do not consider the legal asylum process… To be an acceptable method of entering this country. “
Teacher Terry
6-27-19, 12:57pm
I wonder how many people feel the same way as IL. We need to follow our laws which we are not doing. How many of our ancestors were desperate to escape horrible conditions and came illegally like my mom’s grandfather? Also some of these countries are now unstable because we had a hand in that. Thankfully I don’t know anyone not very upset by what is happening. I can be friends with Republicans that voted for trump but never someone that thought what we are doing to children is okay.
I wonder how many people feel the same way as IL. We need to follow our laws which we are not doing. How many of our ancestors were desperate to escape horrible conditions and came illegally like my mom’s grandfather? Also some of these countries are now unstable because we had a hand in that. Thankfully I don’t know anyone not very upset by what is happening. I can be friends with Republicans that voted for trump but never someone that thought what we are doing to children is okay.
And how about going upstream a bit and addressing what is driving them up here in the first place: corruption and gang violence.
frugal-one
6-28-19, 3:30pm
OK, thanks for the input.
I can understand the confusion, if you look to the left of this post, you'll notice the big black glasses where blinders would normally be. Those are readers which I find useful for looking more closely at things others won't. I'll keep those if you don't mind. :D
When was your last exam? They are not working.
Teacher Terry
6-28-19, 4:40pm
IL, I just saw your updated post. It seemed odd to me when I read your first response. I was probably typing mine same time as you.
The germans weren't initially focused on mass killings either. But it's important to remember that Ann Frank died of typhus, not in a gas chamber...
https://apnews.com/5a49d65213b54043825acc282830b139
Just in case anyone still doubts that the cruelty absolutely IS the whole point. A border agent used homophobia to humiliate a vulnerable migrant. Other agents saw and laughed. A senior agent refused to take action.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/04/us/honduran-migrant-shamed-border-patrol/index.html
gimmethesimplelife
7-6-19, 12:53pm
Just in case anyone still doubts that the cruelty absolutely IS the whole point. A border agent used homophobia to humiliate a vulnerable migrant. Other agents saw and laughed. A senior agent refused to take action.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/07/04/us/honduran-migrant-shamed-border-patrol/index.htmlI don't know what to say here, jp1. On the one hand, I am starting to agree that we can't take the whole world in and I do believe there is something to be said for coming here legally - the old fashioned way (though this takes a long, long, long time these days I'm told).
On the other hand, what have we sunk to as a nation if our Border Agents are getting kicks from embarrassing migrants, mocking migrants, making fun of them, taunting them.....I realize not all Americans support this. Much as many posters here would tell me not all cops are like the ones I post on and on and on about, I get that not all Americans support this.
That said, what does it say about us as a nation that some Americans do support this behavior? What does it say about US CBP that this behavior is not immediately checked? What does that say about us as a nation that this behavior from front line government personnel is not immediately squelched? I don't like the answers I am coming up with.
And I don't see how this problem is going to go away.......Maybe just for today the best I can come up with is that I and the people dear to me in my life are not like this and not only would not support this behavior but would call it out. I feel that's not enough but today that's the best I can do. Rob
. Other agents saw and laughed. A senior agent refused to take action.
The CNN article says:
"The witnessing agent took the note to the senior agent in charge that night but the senior agent took no action, the emails said."
So the agent in charge that night of the center did not do anything. However it also looks like the incident is moving up the food chain:
"a CBP official told CNN, "I am forwarding to the Office of Professional Responsibility, the office charged with looking into these allegations.""
So, perhaps higher-level CBP folks will do something.
I think I've posted previously the tale of the regional CBP guy here who injured our community? While telling us he was here to protect us by herding us through barbed wire/chain link enclosures every time we went to the mainland on the state highway's ferry system, he was at the same time, with his wife, raping a young girl from the community that they had "fostered". When this came to light, his higher-ups at first transferred him out of the jurisdiction, Catholic-Church-style....
So, I have....feelings....about CBP management. The front-line officers I've worked with here seem reasonably decent though.
Teacher Terry
7-6-19, 2:23pm
Immigration is a huge problem because we cannot take everyone yet people are legitimately fleeing gangs and violence. I don’t have a manic answer but I do know we should treat people decently especially the children.
And now we learn that the head of CBP has been a member of the odious facebook group for years. Not gonna hold my breath waiting for any real change anytime soon.
https://theintercept.com/2019/07/12/border-patrol-chief-carla-provost-was-a-member-of-secret-facebook-group/?comments=1#comments
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