The Disneyland fight

[Ultralight]

Have you all seen this? It is so horrible.

But I have this "theory" that hyper-consumerist cultures and lifestyles fuel an undercurrent of hostility in people. This undercurrent can turn stormy real quick, like in this video. These people are at Disneyland -- a non-stop consumption fest.

But something else is that it made me think about how important it is to ditch family members -- or even your whole family -- if they are toxic, violent, unstable, etc.

One can choose one's own family (of friends!) with some effort and diligence. And a chosen family can produce very rewarding experiences.

(Caution: Graphic)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7RBWuYFeg9Y

Thoughts?

[iris lilies]

I think it’s just a family fight. I wouldn’t tie all of those societal observations to this single incident. It is ironic, though, footage like this at The Happiest Place on Earth. You know they call it that, right? The first time I heard that I thought no that’s too much but I think it is a Disney tagline for the place.

[Ultralight]

I think it’s just a family fight. I wouldn’t tie all of those societal observations to this single incident. It is ironic, though, footage like this at The Happiest Place on Earth. You know they call it that, right? The first time I heard that I thought no that’s too much but I think it is a Disney tagline for the place.

I would not tie it to a single incident either. YouTube "black Friday." Lots of incidents. haha

[sweetana3]

The only thing really new is the posting on social media and the spreading around the internet. Sometimes I think most of us are just gossips at heart. Disney has security guards for this reason as well as many others.

[Ultralight]

The only thing really new is the posting on social media and the spreading around the internet. Sometimes I think most of us are just gossips at heart. Disney has security guards for this reason as well as many others.

I would not go to Disneyland for the same reason I won't buy anything on Black Friday. It is nothing but a fantasy world of conspicuous consumption.

[rosarugosa]

I always thought Disneyland sounded like a special version of hell, but clearly lots of people feel differently.

[LDAHL]

I’ve always enjoyed bringing kids there. It’s expensive and fun, like many good things in life. Wouldn’t go for myself, although you see a lot of unaccompanied adults there. I’ve never noticed the undercurrent of hostility you allude to.

I think there may be an trend toward a sort of new Puritanism in this country, especially on the left, that has a real problem with other people’s fun.

I’ve generally been lucky in my family members. None of them have ever felt the need to ditch me for my many imperfections.

[razz]

I took my mother to Disney World as she wanted to see some of the pavilions she had hear about. The condition I imposed was that she must move around using a wheelchair with me pushing as her mobility was somewhat impaired. The Disney staff treated her like a queen and sent me to the back to relax and enjoy myself. It was one of the highlights of her later years.
DH and I took our kids to Florida including Disney World when they were around 8-10 years old for Christmas one year and they truly felt that they were in the Magic Kingdom. The whole experience was totally positive. My favourite ride was sitting in the teacup while listening to "Its a small world". I was impressed with the training of staff, the cleanliness and feeling relaxed and cared for.
I am a strong Disney booster as a result. I would never want to go in the heat of summer and deal with crowds though.

[JaneV2.0]

...
I think there may be an trend toward a sort of new Puritanism in this country, especially on the left, that has a real problem with other people’s fun.
...

Oh please. Unless your idea of fun is caging children or despoiling the environment--or parades featuring Nazi symbolism, I have no idea what you're talking about. The right has puritanism locked down, with its incessant preoccupation with people's sex lives.

[sweetana3]

We took my mother and father in law. We remember it was cold so we bought sweatshirts and it was raining so we bought ponchos. I got deathly sick on a ride (stupid of me since I had bad motion sickness). They just left me in the first aid station for 3 hours and went and rode some others. Still we had a good time. As someone said it is a fantasy world. Did see Walter Cronkite while there and he was wearing a suit and taking his grandkids or maybe great grandkids around.

[Teacher Terry]

I have been to both as a adult and it was lots of fun. I loved Minnie Mouse’s house. If I had grandchildren I would take them.

[Ultralight]

I think there may be an trend toward a sort of new Puritanism in this country, especially on the left, that has a real problem with other people’s fun.



Dude. Seriously. Look at how the Right Wing has policed the bedrooms of people for decades and decades.

[oldhat]

I have been to Disneyworld multiple times on business (my company holds a HUGE conference there). I'd always assumed it was the sort of place that would be interesting to see once, and I was right. I went to the free evening at the park the first two times I was there, but after that took a pass. It's basically a very heavily hyped amusement park.

[oldhat]

I think there may be an trend toward a sort of new Puritanism in this country, especially on the left, that has a real problem with other people’s fun.

LOL. PJ O'Rourke once said that when he was young he took drugs because they were fun. After he became a Republican, he gave them up, not because he became anti-drug, but because he became anti-fun.

[Ultralight]

LOL. PJ O'Rourke once said that when he was young he took drugs because they were fun. After he became a Republican, he gave them up, not because he became anti-drug, but because he became anti-fun.

LOL!

I am a liberal and I am mostly anti-fun, except with it comes to sex. Then I says whatever consenting adults do is fine by me.

[LDAHL]

Dude. Seriously. Look at how the Right Wing has policed the bedrooms of people for decades and decades.

If this was 1985, I might be inclined to agree with you, but times have changed. When I look at the people judging and trying to police the behavior and ideas of others, they seem to be predominantly on the left. People calling others out for wrong thinking or insensitive speech. The disapprovers of cultural appropriation in art, fashion or cuisine. The people mining wicked utterances many years into the past that must be punished. The mob actions against heterodox speakers. The iconoclastic attacks on art associated with the sins of the past. Call out culture. Cancel culture. AOC questioning whether having children is “OK”. The great Portland anti-fluoridation crusade. I think today’s Bluenoses are for the most part blue voters.

[Ultralight]

If this was 1985, I might be inclined to agree with you, but times have changed.

I still think that the Right Wing is in a huff about gays doing gay stuff and sluts doing slutty stuff. But the Left still celebrates gayness and slutty fun.


When I look at the people judging and trying to police the behavior and ideas of others, they seem to be predominantly on the left.

Yeah, you are probably right.


People calling others out for wrong thinking or insensitive speech.

I also dislike this.


The disapprovers of cultural appropriation in art, fashion or cuisine.

Mix it up, I says!


The people mining wicked utterances many years into the past that must be punished.

This is rather screwed up. Some young people do dumb stuff and quietly make amends, or at least see the err of their ways and stop doing it.


The mob actions against heterodox speakers.

Super annoying. Agreed.


The iconoclastic attacks on art associated with the sins of the past.

Also mostly annoying.


Call out culture.

I absolutely hate that.


Cancel culture.

Can't stand this either.


AOC questioning whether having children is “OK”.

I am on board with her about this one! LOL


The great Portland anti-fluoridation crusade.

I am no big fan of flouridation. That said, I don't know much about it. My bigger concern in Portland is the Antifa crazies.


I think today’s Bluenoses are for the most part blue voters.

There is blue on a lot of noses.

[ApatheticNoMore]

There is plenty of puritanism on all sides, they just differ on what it's about. If there wasn't there wouldn't be so much judgement but there is (and noone can say the right isn't judgemental). And then there is plenty of the opposite as well.

But then what's wrong with puritanism? (well maybe being a bit judgemental) No, I really don't care about anyone's sex life, that would be more *prurient* than anything. But never mind that, even asceticism is a more complex and interesting a philosophy than is usually assumed and I think is closer in connotation to what talking about.

As for Disneyland/Disneyworld the target market is people with kids so it's not UL. But yea not my thing, and it's also very expensive.

[jp1]

I actually sort of agree with LDAHL. Not about the fun stuff. People on the left are more into fun, and people on the right are more into judgy stuff. But he's right that people on the left can be assholes towards people on the right, or even towards people on the left. Ultralight has probably experienced this too, but I've had people somewhere on the Q end of the LGBTQ spectrum call me out for not using the right pronoun or whatever in an ever changing landscape of pronoun-appropriateness. As someone who is ON the LGBTQ-whatever spectrum I am comfortable saying "you're being a dick. shut the eff up." Plenty of cis het people are probably not comfortable doing that and instead decide that LGBTQ people are assholes.

[LDAHL]

It’s not just about sex so much as the greater universe of fun. Although I do find it odd to hear people want to think of the voters who put Trump into office as a pack of prudes. From what I’ve seen, slut-shaming pretty much had it’s heyday back in the nineties.

I have been lectured both in print and in person by folks objecting to golf, private schools, cars, the flag, pronouns, cheeseburgers and movies/TV. And the moralizing isn’t coming for the most part from the right.

[Zoe Girl]

So I have had this type of problem in front of a school I worked at, bad that it was in front of the preschool classrooms. Not sure it is related to Disney

[Ultralight]

I have been lectured both in print and in person by folks objecting to golf, private schools, cars, the flag, pronouns, cheeseburgers and movies/TV. And the moralizing isn’t coming for the most part from the right.

So if not golf, private schools, the flag, pronouns, cheeseburgers, or movies/TV, then what sorts of things or endeavors should be examined under the critical eye regarding their morality? Anything? Nothing?

[catherine]

It’s not just about sex so much as the greater universe of fun. Although I do find it odd to hear people want to think of the voters who put Trump into office as a pack of prudes. From what I’ve seen, slut-shaming pretty much had it’s heyday back in the nineties.

I have been lectured both in print and in person by folks objecting to golf, private schools, cars, the flag, pronouns, cheeseburgers and movies/TV. And the moralizing isn’t coming for the most part from the right.

Since when are golf, private schools, cars, the flag, pronouns, and cheeseburgers fun? I'll concede that SOMETIMES movies and TV are fun. But not often. And I'll admit that cars can be fun, if you're looking at vintage ones, or taking a road trip.

So maybe the left just has a different idea of fun than the right.

As for Disneyworld, we did it with the kids once in FL and we went once to Disneyland in Anaheim. It was fun enough. I think reading the case study of Walt Disney's success is fun.

[JaneV2.0]

Since when are golf, private schools, cars, the flag, pronouns, and cheeseburgers fun? I'll concede that SOMETIMES movies and TV are fun. But not often. And I'll admit that cars can be fun, if you're looking at vintage ones, or taking a road trip.

So maybe the left just has a different idea of fun than the right.

As for Disneyworld, we did it with the kids once in FL and we went once to Disneyland in Anaheim. It was fun enough. I think reading the case study of Walt Disney's success is fun.

I find cheeseburgers fun, but I enjoy eating flavorful food. I found Disneyland fun, but that might have been due to psychedelics (which I found fun in their time). It's a well-run park, that's for sure.

[ApatheticNoMore]

So if not golf, private schools, the flag, pronouns, cheeseburgers, or movies/TV, then what sorts of things or endeavors should be examined under the critical eye regarding their morality? Anything? Nothing?

if you are a conservative, collecting food stamps to eat. I'd take getting lectured about recycling or something any day ...

Both may lecture, conservatives will lecture people about things they don't even have control over though.

But I don't see anything political as fun really (at best somewhat interesting, but what's fun go to do with it?)

[Gardnr]

I have been to both as a adult and it was lots of fun. I loved Minnie Mouse’s house. If I had grandchildren I would take them.

I LOVE Disneyland! Went several times as a kid. Took my husband in 1992 on our 1st not-camping vacation. We were 31yo kids! We had a terrific time.

I'm grateful I did not grow up in a screaming family. I'm sad for the kids who had to step away from the screaming match. My brother married a screamer.....their daughter screams at their kids. It's heartbreaking to me.

[Ultralight]

No snark here, a real question. What is appealing about Disney movies/land/world/merch?

I don't understand it.

This is something that was discussed thoroughly one day at work. My colleagues all love Disney, as do their parents. Or if they have kids they raised their kids to love Disney.

My dad and mom did not show me Disney movies when I was a kid. I was raised on movies like Mad Max and The Omega Man and the TV shows I watched were Star Trek, Nova, Nature, and Married With Children.

Maybe I don't like Disney because I was not raised on it since infancy?

[Ultralight]

if you are a conservative, collecting food stamps to eat. I'd take getting lectured about recycling or something any day ...

Both may lecture, conservatives will lecture people about things they don't even have control over though.

But I don't see anything political as fun really (at best somewhat interesting, but what's fun go to do with it?)


My point is that some stuff that people think is fun needs to be critiqued -- even policed -- such as dog fighting or cock fighting or rapping about bitches and hoes.

[catherine]

I think that's why I like reading about Walt Disney. His fantasy world was an alchemy of many things: An ability to create lovable creatures, adapt age-old stories and fairy tales with modern story lines, demand an extremely high level of technical and cinematic perfection, and a execute a genius marketing ability based on great intuition and leadership skill and a knowledge of how to parlay his property into sales and merchandising.

He created a whole world that millions of children feel at home in. And each generation keeps it going by way if its own nostalgia. "My" Disney movie is Cinderella; my daughter's Disney movie is The Little Mermaid.

And then there are all the live action family-friendly movies Disney created.

They may not be for you, UL, but many people enjoy the type of fantasy Disney created. I have Bambi lines embedded in my brain. I spent hours in front of the black-and-white Mouseteer TV show. He's as much as a cultural icon as the Yankees, Mom and apple pie.

[herbgeek]

What is appealing about Disney movies/land/world/merch?

I've only been exposed to Disney as an adult- other than being traumatized by Bambi when I was 5.

I appreciate the engineering involved at Disneyworld in creating a seamless world. At one job, Disney was a customer and I got to visit their data center which was AMAZING.

My mother likes the perfect-ness. The grounds are impeccable, it feels safe to her. Lots of flowers, no trash. Plus, she didn't really have a childhood so for her this is a way to enjoy one (she was a refugee in WWII).

[Ultralight]

I think that's why I like reading about Walt Disney. His fantasy world was an alchemy of many things: An ability to create lovable creatures, adapt age-old stories and fairy tales with modern story lines, demand an extremely high level of technical and cinematic perfection, and a execute a genius marketing ability based on great intuition and leadership skill and a knowledge of how to parlay his property into sales and merchandising.

He created a whole world that millions of children feel at home in. And each generation keeps it going by way if its own nostalgia. "My" Disney movie is Cinderella; my daughter's Disney movie is The Little Mermaid.

And then there are all the live action family-friendly movies Disney created.

They may not be for you, UL, but many people enjoy the type of fantasy Disney created. I have Bambi lines embedded in my brain. I spent hours in front of the black-and-white Mouseteer TV show. He's as much as a cultural icon as the Yankees, Mom and apple pie.


Hmmmm... interesting.

I did see Bambi at a drive-in theater when I was a little kid. I think I saw it, maybe I fell asleep. I am not sure how the story goes.

[catherine]

Hmmmm... interesting.

I did see Bambi at a drive-in theater when I was a little kid. I think I saw it, maybe I fell asleep. I am not sure how the story goes.

Well, Mad Max and Married with Children don't do anything for me, so to each his own. :)

[Teacher Terry]

Disney movies are delightful, imaginative fun for the entire family. My kids were raised on them. Movies that kids love but adults enjoy too. The stuff you watched as a kid UL my kids weren’t allowed to watch until age 13.

[Ultralight]

Disney movies are delightful, imaginative fun for the entire family.

Why are they delightful? What makes them appropriate for the entire family?


My kids were raised on them.

What kinds of messages do Disney movies send to kids?


Movies that kids love but adults enjoy too.

Woody Allen once said: "Steven Spielberg said he makes movies he would have enjoyed as a child. I make movies I will enjoy as an adult."

I give a little side-eye to adults who like children's movies or books. I think it is a symptom of the infantilization of the American mind.


The stuff you watched as a kid UL my kids weren’t allowed to watch until age 13.

My parents were not big on censorship, though when I was very little they did not allow me to watch movies full of what they called "senseless violence," Freddie Kruger and stuff like that, slasher films.

They let me watch Hair when I was probably 10 years old. To this day it is the only musical I really like!

[Ultralight]

The stuff you watched as a kid UL my kids weren’t allowed to watch until age 13. Why wouldn't you let you kids watch Nova or Nature until they were in their teens? Why are those objectionable?

[Teacher Terry]

I didn’t mean Nova or nature. I meant married with children and mad max.

[LDAHL]

I give a little side-eye to adults who like children's movies or books. I think it is a symptom of the infantilization of the American mind.


I think there’s an element of you-had-to-be-there to it. There’s a certain pleasure to seeing something through your kid’s eyes that’s difficult to describe. Would I have given Harry Potter or Percy Jackson the time of day if not for the kid? Doubtful. But reading or watching them with my kid has been, at the risk of sounding sentimental, priceless.

Although I do think you have a point about adult fanpersons who get really involved in YA or children’s entertainment for it’s own sake. The Bronies, and other dressers-up. Someone should tell them to look before you LARP. Not that I would lecture or nerd-shame them about it.