View Full Version : Meritocracy
I’ve been noticing more books and articles lately on the subject of “meritocracy”; a word originally coined for a satirical novel but now taken very seriously. Does it really exist, or is it just a cover for a caste system based on access to the best schools, internships and other not inexpensive “resume investments”? Is the top 10% “hoarding opportunity”, or just looking out for it’s children?
Is New York right to consider eliminating gifted programs for egalitarian reasons? Is the Trump phenomenon at least partly due to resentment of a perceived elite?
Is it even worth pursuing elite status? I may be too comfortable with my own mediocrity, but a lot of the “successful” people I know seem to work too hard and worry a lot about maintaining their status.
And if it exists, and if it’s a problem, what can be done about it?
iris lilies
9-5-19, 11:52am
Being a mediocre fish in a mediocre pond is fine with me. Those of us in flyover country with our degrees from state U who have our $150,000 houses without quartz countertops and our non-German cars CAN be quite content with life. We are even happy.
I don’t want to compete in the strivery lanes of the coasts. I don’t want to be in the 1% or even the 10%.
I'm also completely happy being a non-striving, middle-everything individual.
But I do support gifted programs (and schools, for that matter) for those who otherwise would just be languishing in public schools (and who can't afford private ones). I have nothing against meritocracies, really, as long as they're truly benefiting the exceptionally smart/hardworking/talented, and not the lazy scions of the 1%.
It seems like it was easier for older generations to opt for a life of comfortable mediocrity than it is today. There were more pretty-good jobs in the middle range if you were willing to work pretty hard. Outside the really elite schools, you could get a decent education in a State U without plunging yourself into significant debt.
I’m not sure what’s changed. Expectations maybe. People seem a bit more competitive now. I hear about families now feeling they failed if a toddler doesn’t make the cut for a pre-school. Technology almost certainly. Software and automation reducing the need for brains, brawn and discipline. Globalization perhaps. Maybe the culture. Shifting values. I don’t know.
I’m kind of glad I was born where I was born at the time I was born. I feel like I kind of won the historical lottery.
...
I’m kind of glad I was born where I was born at the time I was born. I feel like I kind of won the historical lottery.
I feel like I was born about 50 years too soon, personally. I do feel fortunate not to have missed the seventies and the freedoms they brought; I would have absolutely hated having been born any earlier.
Teacher Terry
9-5-19, 1:37pm
Gifted programs are important because smart kids get bored and you don’t want to lose their interest. I was thankful that we could afford to pay for our local college. I don’t hang out with people keeping up with the Joneses. I spent most of my life in the Midwest. No one in Nevada cares about the things mentioned either.
The argument in NYC is that white and Asian kids are over represented in the programs’ enrollment. I don’t think ability is distributed differently among different ethnicities, but perhaps some groups are better able to prepare their kids to compete. I’m not sure how you adjust for that or even if you should. I heard the SAT people were working on an “adversity score” to help handicap college admissions.
I was once told it was immoral for me to send my kid to private school because it was unfair to the other kids. I don’t know how you could convince “privileged” families not to do everything possible for their kids’ future.
The argument in NYC is that white and Asian kids are over represented in the programs’ enrollment.
Should probably take them out of their home environments and put them in foster homes, to balance the scales.
I’m not sure what’s changed. Expectations maybe. People seem a bit more competitive now. I hear about families now feeling they failed if a toddler doesn’t make the cut for a pre-school. Technology almost certainly. Software and automation reducing the need for brains, brawn and discipline. Globalization perhaps. Maybe the culture. Shifting values. I don’t know.
I’m kind of glad I was born where I was born at the time I was born. I feel like I kind of won the historical lottery.
Things are definitely more competitive and driven. Look at the recent celebrity scandal where college admissions people were bribed to get their unqualified children into selective schools. When I worked for the Board of Education, the high school principal would bemoan to me that parents would storm his office insisting that he give their child an A+ instead of an A so their chances at Ivy League wouldn't be diminished.
My own daughter was an achiever in academics, captain of the soccer team, winner of a state golf tournament, and even in movies and Broadway plays, and she was denied admission to 3 colleges, waitlisted for one, and accepted by one.
And, ironically, it's the college-educated millennials having a hard time finding jobs, and to save my life I can't find a plumber, electrician, or carpenter who has time for me.
Things are definitely more competitive and driven. Look at the recent celebrity scandal where college admissions people were bribed to get their unqualified children into selective schools. When I worked for the Board of Education, the high school principal would bemoan to me that parents would storm his office insisting that he give their child an A+ instead of an A so their chances at Ivy League wouldn't be diminished.
My own daughter was an achiever in academics, captain of the soccer team, winner of a state golf tournament, and even in movies and Broadway plays, and she was denied admission to 3 colleges, waitlisted for one, and accepted by one.
And, ironically, it's the college-educated millennials having a hard time finding jobs, and to save my life I can't find a plumber, electrician, or carpenter who has time for me.
Catherine, I think it's astounding that your daughter did not get into 4 of the colleges right off the bat! If I were a candidate today, I would probably not qualify for the school I went to. My brother's daughter did not get into Harvard, and she was a legacy.
DD was thrown into the educational "meritocracy" of the city we left due to her participation in magnet programs from an early age. Over time as the city's population changed, it came to be that we were surrounded by a sea of strivers. We never could keep up with all the extracurriculars that her friend's parents pushed - getting up every morning at 5 am for swim or gymnastics practice, debate contests, overseas trips, specialized tutors, entrance exam coaching etc. Her best friend did all of that and ended up at Yale and Oxford. Her parents divorced shortly after she left to go to college and I imagine all the stress of raising master kids contributed. DD went to state university and then a masters program out of state. The irony is that now that she is back in her home city...even more highly educated, ardent strivers have arrived so finding a space at a good preschool for her twins has been a real challenge. Waiting lists for preschool??? It has been interesting for us moving to the middle of the country. Folks here for the most part are more average working class and not nearly as motivated (or can't afford) to be constantly striving. At first it perplexed me, but I now appreciate the difference in lifestyles.
DD was thrown into the educational "meritocracy" of the city we left due to her participation in magnet programs from an early age. Over time as the city's population changed, it came to be that we were surrounded by a sea of strivers. We never could keep up with all the extracurriculars that her friend's parents pushed - getting up every morning at 5 am for swim or gymnastics practice, debate contests, overseas trips, specialized tutors, entrance exam coaching etc. Her best friend did all of that and ended up at Yale and Oxford. Her parents divorced shortly after she left to go to college and I imagine all the stress of raising master kids contributed. DD went to state university and then a masters program out of state. The irony is that now that she is back in her home city...even more highly educated, ardent strivers have arrived so finding a space at a good preschool for her twins has been a real challenge. Waiting lists for preschool??? It has been interesting for us moving to the middle of the country. Folks here for the most part are more average working class and not nearly as motivated (or can't afford) to be constantly striving. At first it perplexed me, but I now appreciate the difference in lifestyles.
“Master kids”? That has a dystopian ring to it. Although I did hear one mother talk about the “Uber kinder” in her preschool.
It's almost necessary to be a desperate striver these days--there are only so many jobs one can support themselves decently on, due to sky-high costs of housing, health care, college loans. etc. I don't do striving well, so I guess I'm glad I missed that.
It's almost necessary to be a desperate striver these days--there are only so many jobs one can support themselves decently on, due to sky-high costs of housing, health care, college loans. etc. I don't do striving well, so I guess I'm glad I missed that.
I'm curious how that works out though, in the end.
If nobody can afford housing, health care, food, cars, and so on - how does the economy function?
Who's living in all those houses that nobody can afford?
People who bought real estate when it was affordable, is my guess. Old people. I couldn't begin to buy my house today.
Maybe they'll leave their property (and the tax levies) to their offspring to fight over. How the economy functions with the increasing cost of necessities is an ongoing mystery to me.
I'm curious how that works out though, in the end.
If nobody can afford housing, health care, food, cars, and so on - how does the economy function?
Who's living in all those houses that nobody can afford?
Maybe the whole country will become like San Francisco, where frighteningly costly real estate is sited on streets that are veritable open sewers.
Oh, the “it’s not fair” crap. Can’t have some people doing well because that will hurt the feelings of other people. That’s the mentality that did away with high school class rankings in some schools.
Let’s have everyone be mediocre. No incentive to work hard.
Jesus Christ. Some people.
There were class rankings? >8)
People who bought real estate when it was affordable, is my guess. Old people. I couldn't begin to buy my house today.
Has the demand for housing across the country outstripped the supply?
Or in some cases (as it is in my local community) is it that lots of people from Elsewhere think this is a Good Place To Live, and massively increase the demand/market for the homes that are here, and that are being constructed, and drive out the pre-existing population over time?
Who is living in all those super-high-priced San Francisco houses?
Who is living in all those super-high-priced San Francisco houses?
Visionary geniuses who figured out better ways to order pizza on your phone. And their lawyers.
Visionary geniuses who figured out better ways to order pizza on your phone. And their lawyers.
But what if *I* decide SF is a great place to live and want housing there?
But what if *I* decide SF is a great place to live and want housing there?
You would need to outbid one of the geniuses for housing. You could try getting permission to build a new place, but the permitting process might exceed your remaining lifespan.
iris lilies
9-5-19, 5:37pm
Y
Things are definitely more competitive and driven. Look at the recent celebrity scandal where college admissions people were bribed to get their unqualified children into selective schools. When I worked for the Board of Education, the high school principal would bemoan to me that parents would storm his office insisting that he give their child an A+ instead of an A so their chances at Ivy League wouldn't be diminished.
My own daughter was an achiever in academics, captain of the soccer team, winner of a state golf tournament, and even in movies and Broadway plays, and she was denied admission to 3 colleges, waitlisted for one, and accepted by one.
And, ironically, it's the college-educated millennials having a hard time finding jobs, and to save my life I can't find a plumber, electrician, or carpenter who has time for me.
To play devils advocate, I bet she wasn’t trying to get in the State U was she? :devil:
I keep wondering who is buying expensive houses. We are thinking about moving again in a year or so but I am watching prices rise in any place that is the least bit desirable. We won't be able to afford anything comparable to what we are in now even though ours has gone up too. DD just bought what I consider an expensive house ($500+K) which is still making my head spin at the thought of it.
Y
To play devils advocate, I bet she wasn’t trying to get in the State U was she? :devil:
No, two of my sons went to Rutgers. She applied to Boston College, Vassar, Skidmore, Brandeis, and American. She was waitlisted for Skidmore and got into American. In 1970 I applied for Boston College and got in... she didn't.
I keep wondering who is buying expensive houses. We are thinking about moving again in a year or so but I am watching prices rise in any place that is the least bit desirable. We won't be able to afford anything comparable to what we are in now even though ours has gone up too. DD just bought what I consider an expensive house ($500+K) which is still making my head spin at the thought of it.
I swear I heard my neighbor's house went for $900,000K, but I can't be sure of that and it sounds ridiculously high. I remember when a friend and her husband bought a house in Portland for $500K some years ago, and the figure seemed astronomical at the time. These are head-spinning figures to me. I can find older condos for sale for around $350K, which seems reasonable, considering.
We bought for 91,500 back in 1991. Our neighbor just paid 408k. It's 400sf larger...but really? The market is ridiculous. Across town, on a very busy street, a new build went for $550k and under 2000sf. It is nuts here!
Anything over 200,000 scares me. A decade ago anything over 100,000 scared me. It’s just a house.
Rentals are so hard to find these days so as long as the mortgage rates stay low, it pays to buy to have a roof over one's head and build up some equity. When and if the rates spiral up, it will be challenging.
Teacher Terry
9-5-19, 9:56pm
The average price here is 420.
I don't know how representative my impressions are, but things seem different here in middle America. In my college admission days there really wasn't not a lot of enthusiasm to attend the Ivy League schools back east. I can recall a small handful, but even the most of the higher achievers ended up in the State U's. Too far away and maybe some loss of quality of environment to move. People I know now with sons or daughters seem pretty much the same way.
I grew up on the East coast with a brief respite in the Midwest. Everyone I knew that was college bound applied to private colleges. In retrospect, I would have done much much better to go to a state university, save the tuition for a house downpayment, and teach high school.
Oh well.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.