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View Full Version : Amber Guyger case in Dallas....



gimmethesimplelife
10-3-19, 9:14am
It's about to be handed to the jury folks....another nail biter, though this time it's looking less likely that the former officer involved could walk free. This case is ultra relevant to me, personally, both as someone working as an activist to rein in police power and to demand police accountability 100 percent of the time.....with prison terms and permanent criminal records for law breaking officers. Also as a men's rights activist Amber's gender comes into play as women tend to serve 60 percent shorter sentences than men for similar crimes. If Amber is sentenced and gets a light sentence via virtue of her gender, there will be blowback and likely litigation on this one and it's not going to be pretty.....but long overdue.

Personally. after looking over the facts in the this case, I find myself taking a rare conservative approach. This one time in this one case....Guyger's actions were so brutally entitled and inhumane with such callous disregard for human life that I would support the death sentence in her case. To me personally this case is even worse than the Mohammed Noor fiasco recently as Guyger cold bloodily murdered an innocent man in his own apartment....translation....ALL OF US ARE VULNERABLE TO THE SAME AT ALL TIMES. is this truly an America you care to live in/support? Perhaps you accept such - this is your right. Just don't expect me to accept such. I deserve better and there is no room for negotiation on this one I'm afraid.

Regardless of my take, the maximum penalty I've read Guyger is vulnerable to due to her cold blooded murder is lifetime imprisonment. Let's cross our fingers she is put away for life so as to remove the threat she poses to innocent American citizens and permanent residents and anyone else who might innocently cross her path.

My take is that due to reverse gender discrimination, she will serve a lighter sentence than a man would, but that she will be sentenced. This right here, especially in the state of Texas, is progress. Maybe not enough progress, but progress. And this case could serve as a springboard to demanding equal sentencing for men and women and perhaps some kind of settlement for the many male victims of.unequal sentencing. So some good may come of this illegal and unfortunate tragedy. We'll see.

Get the popcorn ready.....I like garlic butter on mine. This one's a nail biter, too, but for different reasons than the Noor fiasco was and women in general may not care for the eventual outcome as more and more American men are becoming aware of and outraged by unequal sentencing based on gender. Get the popcorn ready is my advice. Rob

iris lilies
10-3-19, 9:50am
I only vaguely know about this because I tune out hysteria inducing headlines. The media seems to love this because POLICE and WOMAN and scintillating details.

But good for you for reminding us for the 854th time of your wokeness about America.

whatever, dude.

dmc
10-3-19, 9:57am
I though she got 10 years.

gimmethesimplelife
10-3-19, 9:58am
Whoops....I'm working too much. Turns out that Guyger WAS already sentenced....to an insufficient 10 years with a chance to be out on parole in two years. Watch the public anger and mounting distrust of all things American as a result.

I do take solace in that this horrible excuse for a human being was sentenced to begin with....not long ago her crying on the stand and whining she was afraid for her life would have sprung her free. This did not happen here EVEN IN TEXAS so.there is real progress here. Now we need to work on equal sentencing for both genders, no exceptions and realistic sentences for cold blooded murderers such as Guyger who realistically are not much more than walking/talking threats to civil society. At least Guyger's life is ruined via her permanent felony record and she will taste incarceration up close and personal. It's progress but we can do so much better as a nation. Are we up to such? I really am 50/50 on this one.....though disgust/intense distrust/disillusionment with US law enforcement is spreading upwards on the socioeconomic food chain. We'll see. I do believe law enforcement officers are starting to realize that the social climate they face truly has done a 180 since Ferguson and not just in my much referenced zip code. We'll see. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
10-3-19, 9:59am
I though she got 10 years.You are dead on. Because I've been so busy I was not aware of the sentencing when I made my op. My bad. Rob

LDAHL
10-3-19, 10:48am
The woman made a terrible mistake, which she admitted. I’m not sure I see where you’re getting “brutal and callous” out of that.

Now she will pay for it. I’m not sure I think “at least her life is ruined” is something a decent person would want to gloat over.

But then, I don’t feel particularly worried about the urge of cops to murder people or of the unfair privilege of being female.

oldhat
10-3-19, 11:29am
I only know the outlines of this case, but I was puzzled by one thing--the charge of murder, given that apparently she didn't know this guy at all. Again, based on my limited knowledge of the case, it seems she was highly negligent, which certainly merits consequences, but shouldn't the charge have been manslaughter or negligent homocide or something?

That said, it was interesting to see the brother forgiving the women, while not condoning her actions. Made quite a contrast with the activists outside the courtroom grousing because she didn't get the max. I'm not even saying I agree with the brother or would have done the same, but it's interesting to see how many "Christians" who don't understand the requirements of claiming to be one.

Teacher Terry
10-3-19, 11:46am
If she had gotten manslaughter she could have been out in 2 years. Under her state laws it qualifies as murder. I am sorry but once you walk into a apartment you can tell that’s not your furniture. She could have told him to freeze and called for backup. I hope she serves the whole ten.

gimmethesimplelife
10-3-19, 11:51am
If she had gotten manslaughter she could have been out in 2 years. Under her state laws it qualifies as murder. I am sorry but once you walk into a apartment you can tell that’s not your furniture. She could have told him to freeze and called for backup. I hope she serves the whole ten.Thank You, TT. Your post here gives me hope. I bet you'd be an interesting person to chat over coffee about current events with. Rob

Teacher Terry
10-3-19, 12:03pm
When I lived in Wisconsin you weren’t afraid to call the police if there was a issue. Here it’s different. I also wouldn’t want a family member to be one here as they have been killed by people for no reason. One nut job killed a cop with a machete. A few were gunned down in Vegas when they were walking. I think the bigger question is why is our society so much more violent. What is wrong with people that they are murdering people they don’t know especially children.

LDAHL
10-3-19, 12:15pm
Are we really more violent than in the past? Do the numbers align with the media-driven perceptions?

gimmethesimplelife
10-3-19, 12:22pm
A couple of developments I've noticed recently here in Phoenix since the infamous Dollar Store incident. The Phoenix PD seems more subdued and less aggressive of late. It's been made crystal clear to them that the community understands the city has deep pockets via liability insurance and since Arizona is a one party state, anything they say and/or do in public can legally be filmed and used against them in civil or criminal courts.

Something else absolutely wonderful - outside of my zip code you all are probably sick of hearing about by now - in "nicer" areas - I've seen instances of people auto pulling out their smartphones and filming the police should they drive by and/or approach. Such auto distrust of the police truly is essential in today's America to protect innocent life and property from the police. That's just how America is now, for better or worse. It just is this way now. Truly it warms my heart to see people in more prosperous areas "getting it" and protecting themselves from the police via smartphone video.

More people every day are getting this....eventually a tipping point will be reached and sweeping change will take place. I hope to see this in ny lifetime, even if from afar in another country. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
10-3-19, 12:26pm
Are we really more violent than in the past? Do the numbers align with the media-driven perceptions?I don't know that we are more violent these days. I believe at least in the case of American police, it's more smartphone video shining a flashlight 24/7/365 on exactly what they truly are about, beyond any shadow of a reasonable doubt.

As far as non-police folks go - I believe part of the awareness of violence is due to the 24/7/365 news cycle. Also social media and the Internet factor into this, too. Rob

catherine
10-3-19, 1:09pm
If she had gotten manslaughter she could have been out in 2 years. Under her state laws it qualifies as murder. I am sorry but once you walk into a apartment you can tell that’s not your furniture. She could have told him to freeze and called for backup. I hope she serves the whole ten.

Yeah, I totally don't understand how she walked into an apartment that clearly wasn't hers and reflexively shot the person sitting on his own couch. Is that the real story? I worked for Union Carbide in a space-age new headquarters where every cubical looked exactly the same, but if I walked to my desk and saw a cubical with a different pencil holder, I'd know immediately it wasn't my cube, never mind a whole different set of furniture. It's bizarre.

JaneV2.0
10-3-19, 1:29pm
Yeah, I totally don't understand how she walked into an apartment that clearly wasn't hers and reflexively shot the person sitting on his own couch. Is that the real story? I worked for Union Carbide in a space-age new headquarters where every cubical looked exactly the same, but if I walked to my desk and saw a cubical with a different pencil holder, I'd know immediately it wasn't my cube, never mind a whole different set of furniture. It's bizarre.

She got off easy. I can understand parking on the wrong level of the parking garage. Maybe ignoring the doormat unlike her own, not looking at the apartment number--she was busy, after all texting or sexting or whatever. But as you say, once she saw the inside of the apartment...Did she think the "burglar" had it redecorated while she was at work? And you're right--she could have just held him at gunpoint for the two minutes it would have taken a normally-intelligent person to realize her mistake. There was absolutely no reason to shoot Jean. And the judge hugging her? Unbelievable.

LDAHL
10-3-19, 1:51pm
She got off easy. I can understand parking on the wrong level of the parking garage. Maybe ignoring the doormat unlike her own, not looking at the apartment number--she was busy, after all texting or sexting or whatever. But as you say, once she saw the inside of the apartment...Did she think the "burglar" had it redecorated while she was at work? And you're right--she could have just held him at gunpoint for the two minutes it would have taken a normally-intelligent person to realize her mistake. There was absolutely no reason to shoot Jean. And the judge hugging her? Unbelievable.

If I were to walk into what I thought was my place and found a stranger there, my immediate focus probably wouldn’t be on lamps and end tables.

My experience has been that stupidity, carelessness and bad luck are generally sufficient to explain most tragic events without resorting to darker theories of what went on in someone’s mind.

oldhat
10-3-19, 2:00pm
My experience has been that stupidity, carelessness and bad luck are generally sufficient to explain most tragic events without resorting to darker theories of what went on in someone’s mind.

I don't quarrel with the idea that her actions merit punishment, fairly harsh punishment, even assuming her version of events was true. And if a manslaughter charge would only have gotten her two years, then yes, that was probably insufficient. But that still doesn't answer my original question of why she did it. Was that explored at the trial? Like I say, I didn't follow it closely.

bae
10-3-19, 2:10pm
I'm curious how people make the leap in reasoning between "Amber Guyger" and "all police in America".

How many police officers each year do this sort of thing? Especially when acting in their official capacity as law enforcement officers?

catherine
10-3-19, 2:51pm
I'm curious how people make the leap in reasoning between "Amber Guyger" and "all police in America".



Bizarre episode. One-off. Unless there's more to the story.

Teacher Terry
10-3-19, 5:12pm
I don’t make that jump Bae. I know good and bad cops. No one is denying that it’s a tough job.

rosarugosa
10-3-19, 6:38pm
I had a dear departed friend who struggled with alcohol abuse most of his life. He lived in an apartment complex, and apparently it was his practice to sleep on his couch in the nude. So he went home drunk one night, and you can guess the rest. Fortunately, the horrified tenant who discovered him on her couch only called the police, who resolved the situation without any violence. The only thing harmed was my friend's ego, and he made it into the local paper with a story titled "File This Under Nude Awakening."
My long-winded point is I wonder whether alcohol or other substances were involved.

JaneV2.0
10-3-19, 6:54pm
I had a dear departed friend who struggled with alcohol abuse most of his life. He lived in an apartment complex, and apparently it was his practice to sleep on his couch in the nude. So he went home drunk one night, and you can guess the rest. Fortunately, the horrified tenant who discovered him on her couch only called the police, who resolved the situation without any violence. The only thing harmed was my friend's ego, and he made it into the local paper with a story titled "File This Under Nude Awakening."
My long-winded point is I wonder whether alcohol or other substances were involved.

I read she had no alcohol in her system; I think she was coming home from work.

Yes--a normally-functioning person would back out and call the police, and while waiting for them, they might notice the apartment number and their error.

Teacher Terry
10-3-19, 6:59pm
In truth is stranger than fiction black men are getting more years for killing a police dog than this woman got. A man got 10 years for armed robbery and 35 more for killing the dog. A young black man was hiding under a house so they sent a dog to get him. He shot the dog and they killed him.

Alan
10-3-19, 8:38pm
In truth is stranger than fiction black men are getting more years for killing a police dog than this woman got. A man got 10 years for armed robbery and 35 more for killing the dog. A young black man was hiding under a house so they sent a dog to get him. He shot the dog and they killed him.
Are you aware of any extenuating or mitigating circumstances in any of these cases which came into play during sentencing? Also, in your last sentence, are you implying that the police simply took it upon themselves to kill a person or might that have been a worst case scenario come to pass as a result of the suspect's actions? Finally, does any of that matter in your world?

bae
10-3-19, 8:44pm
Yes--a normally-functioning person would back out and call the police, and while waiting for them, they might notice the apartment number and their error.

My neighbors previously used to rent out their home to transient summer by-the-day renters.

On multiple occasions I returned home to find an odd car in my driveway, and people milling around my kitchen and living room, and unpacking their luggage.

I did not back out, or call the police.

On at least one occasion, the trespassers were quite insistent they had a right to remain in my home, at least for a bit. I didn't shoot them either, though I was armed.

(You'd think someone would wonder why their AirBnB came with two friendly dogs, and had dirty dishes in the kitchen...)

Teacher Terry
10-3-19, 8:56pm
Bae, you don’t lock your doors? I locked mine 43 years ago when I lived in a town of 2k. Alan, black people being shot and getting more years in prison for shooting a police dog versus a person is important in my world. I am not ignoring what’s happening in this country.

Alan
10-3-19, 9:05pm
Alan, black people being shot and getting more years in prison for shooting a police dog versus a person is important in my world. I am not ignoring what’s happening in this country.Ok, so it sounds like extenuating or mitigating circumstances are irrelevant in your world, even though that doesn't jive with the "I am not ignoring" statement.

Teacher Terry
10-3-19, 9:23pm
You always seem to decide in favor of the police. I have had some black male coworkers have some terrifying experiences with police. I am not automatically on anyone’s side as I lived in the Midwest not that far from a black neighborhood that was a hotbed of crime. Yes there is 2 sides to every story.

bae
10-3-19, 10:55pm
Bae, you don’t lock your doors?

Not generally, this is a really out-of-the-way spot, with 8 exterior doors. Anyone who wanted to break in could do so without anyone else hearing or noticing. I don't even know where the house keys are.

Teacher Terry
10-3-19, 11:40pm
Just read where a black guy got life for stealing 50 from a bakery.

bae
10-4-19, 1:21am
Just read where a black guy got life for stealing 50 from a bakery.

Is there more behind that story? I mean, it isn't typical in this country to get life in prison for a misdemeanor charge.

dado potato
10-4-19, 2:42am
When I lived in Wisconsin you weren’t afraid to call the police if there was a issue.

Welfare checks... Police are called to check on someone. In rural Wisconsin it is still routine for officers to go to the residence, and inquire into the well-being of the person of interest. But I have read about situations in bigger cities where the welfare check goes bad. In some cases the person of interest is hearing-impaired, or bombed on drugs/alcohol, and thus unable to understand, let alone comply with the commands of officers. Because of the use of lethal force to deal with non-compliant individuals, I would be extremely reluctant to call police to do a welfare check on anyone. Like the Little Red Hen, I will just have to do it myself.

flowerseverywhere
10-4-19, 6:36am
Is there more behind that story? I mean, it isn't typical in this country to get life in prison for a misdemeanor charge.

yes. He was sentenced 36 years ago in Alabama under their three strikes laws. It was his third felony. In 2013 the laws were changed.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/alabama-man-spent-36-years-behind-bars-after-stealing-50-n1048266

Alan
10-4-19, 7:57am
You always seem to decide in favor of the police.
I don't decide anything without facts, the details which are always missing in the conclusions some of you share in these threads. Conclusions reached without relevant facts are always wrong.

gimmethesimplelife
10-4-19, 11:16am
I just got off the phone with the Dallas County District Attorney's Office after showering them with praise for prosecuting Amber Guyger. Remember folks....this happened in Texas outside Travis County/Austin. Her cold blooded murder was actually not swept under the rug and any Woman Card and/or Law Enforcement Card was ignored and she was ACTUALLY PROSECUTED.

I have nothing but praise for this DA's Office for actually working under and respecting the spirit of the law. It could be said that the reason behind such was not so noble - preventing justifiable large scale rioting in a large, racially tense city - but at least the system (sort of) worked here and this DA's Office deserves respect in my book. Rob

Tradd
10-4-19, 11:35am
Rob, just curious, would you treat a cop who was a Mexican immigrant the same as you do any other cop? I’m just curious since Mexicans seem to do no wrong in your eyes. Or would they be tainted for having put on a badge?

I’m not being snarky. I’m serious.

LDAHL
10-4-19, 11:56am
I just got off the phone with the Dallas County District Attorney's Office after showering them with praise for prosecuting Amber Guyger. Remember folks....this happened in Texas outside Travis County/Austin. Her cold blooded murder was actually not swept under the rug and any Woman Card and/or Law Enforcement Card was ignored and she was ACTUALLY PROSECUTED.

I have nothing but praise for this DA's Office for actually working under and respecting the spirit of the law. It could be said that the reason behind such was not so noble - preventing justifiable large scale rioting in a large, racially tense city - but at least the system (sort of) worked here and this DA's Office deserves respect in my book. Rob

I’m no expert, but this would seem to be pretty much a no- brainer prosecution to me. I think you’re making some unjustifiably negative assumptions about Texas, women, cops and the justice system in general.

gimmethesimplelife
10-4-19, 12:28pm
Rob, just curious, would you treat a cop who was a Mexican immigrant the same as you do any other cop? I’m just curious since Mexicans seem to do no wrong in your eyes. Or would they be tainted for having put on a badge?

I’m not being snarky. I’m serious.Fair question in my book Tradd given my continual praise of Mexico. Your answer is yes. A Mexican immigrant of either gender pulling the trigger in this case equals a need to be criminally prosecuted, just as Amber Guyger was. If you find this surprising, remember my siding with the Chicago PD recently in the Jussie Smollett fiasco? I'm not a 100 percent auto liberal - I just call them as I see them based on my life experiences in this country/what America had taught me. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
10-4-19, 12:34pm
I’m no expert, but this would seem to be pretty much a no- brainer prosecution to me. I think you’re making some unjustifiably negative assumptions about Texas, women, cops and the justice system in general.With all due respect I disagree. It is true that things are changing - granted and given. It is also true that in Texas and the Deep South that such murders have historically been swept under the rug, especially given that the deceased was an African American male. How to forgive America for this unfortunate and very true reality? I have no idea, I really don't as I'm far too much of a humanitarian not to see this fact for the evil it truly is. But, I will also say that things are changing....the results of the Guyger trial do seem to highlight a societal shift here. Good to see, I will grant that. And very, very, very long overdue. Rob

Tradd
10-4-19, 12:46pm
Fair question in my book Tradd given my continual praise of Mexico. Your answer is yes. A Mexican immigrant of either gender pulling the trigger in this case equals a need to be criminally prosecuted, just as Amber Guyger was. If you find this surprising, remember my siding with the Chicago PD recently in the Jussie Smollett fiasco? I'm not a 100 percent auto liberal - I just call them as I see them based on my life experiences in this country/what America had taught me. Rob

I’m not taking about this case. I mean cops period. If you come across a cop who is Mexican are you going to be in fear of him or will you look differently at him since he’s Mexican?

gimmethesimplelife
10-4-19, 12:55pm
I’m not taking about this case. I mean cops period. If you come across a cop who is Mexican are you going to be in fear of him or will you look differently at him since he’s Mexican?I would see either a male or female Hispanic law enforcement officer the same way I would view any other. Smartphone record, refuse any conversation, proceed with caution and sue if possible/indicated by said officer's actions. Does this answer your question? Rob

Tradd
10-4-19, 1:03pm
I would see either a male or female Hispanic law enforcement officer the same way I would view any other. Smartphone record, refuse any conversation, proceed with caution and sue if possible/indicated by said officer's actions. Does this answer your question? Rob

Yes, it does. Cops are scum and any Mexican who was misguided enough to put on a badge would be damaged goods.

gimmethesimplelife
10-4-19, 1:27pm
[QUOTE=gimmethesimplelife;335158]Tradd, OUCH! I didn't go quite that far. Smartphone video every day all around America had proven many cops can't be trusted.....I'm afraid there's no logical way to dispute that fact at this late date. I am not willing to take the risk of interacting with law enforcement - life is short and basic Human Rights matter. Are cops damaged goods? Good question.
I actually believe some are not when they first enter the profession but that internal cop culture and internal pressures lead to the "them vs. us" mentality that indeed does lead to damaged goods status. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
10-4-19, 1:28pm
Tradd, OUCH! I didn't go quite that far. Smartphone video every day all around America had proven many cops can't be trusted.....I'm afraid there's no logical way to dispute that fact at this late date. I am not willing to take the risk of interacting with law enforcement - life is short and basic Human Rights matter. Are cops damaged goods? Good question.
I actually believe some are not when they first enter the profession but that internal cop culture and internal pressures lead to the "them vs. us" mentality that indeed does lead to damaged goods status. Rob

Teacher Terry
10-4-19, 1:29pm
20 years ago I lived in a condo where most of the residents were elderly. I knew many of the people. I got a phone call from a guy’s family that lived above me that they hadn’t heard from him in a week. So I went to the parking lot and his car was there. I pounded on his door and he didn’t answer. I called the police and he had been dead for a week.

LDAHL
10-4-19, 5:11pm
With all due respect I disagree. It is true that things are changing - granted and given. It is also true that in Texas and the Deep South that such murders have historically been swept under the rug, especially given that the deceased was an African American male. How to forgive America for this unfortunate and very true reality? I have no idea, I really don't as I'm far too much of a humanitarian not to see this fact for the evil it truly is. But, I will also say that things are changing....the results of the Guyger trial do seem to highlight a societal shift here. Good to see, I will grant that. And very, very, very long overdue. Rob

History is what it is, and doesn’t ask to be forgiven. Carrying a burden of bitterness for the sins of centuries past is pointless.

Speaking of forgiveness, I don’t see how anyone could fail to be uplifted by the level of grace the victim’s brother demonstrated. I know I couldn’t in that situation.

Yppej
10-4-19, 5:55pm
Rob have you ever been to the lynching museum in Alabama? I think it would interest you.

flowerseverywhere
10-5-19, 6:34am
History is what it is, and doesn’t ask to be forgiven. Carrying a burden of bitterness for the sins of centuries past is pointless.

Speaking of forgiveness, I don’t see how anyone could fail to be uplifted by the level of grace the victim’s brother demonstrated. I know I couldn’t in that situation.

speaking of forgiveness, there was mention in this thread of an Alabama case where a black man was given life at age 22 for stealing $50 in a bakery 36 years ago. He robbed it and had a pocket knife which he did not use. He had previous crimes, but none were violent and a life sentence was handed down. I read as much as I could find and it seems there are several hundreds of prisoners in the Alabama prison system under similar situations. They lack attorneys who are willing to do the work to get them out as this man did.
He was trying to figure out who to give his possessions to as he left (including his thermal underwear it is so cold in the winter) there is so much deprivation there.
perhaps instead of carrying a burden of bitterness for past sins we should look further for opportunities for forgiveness.

The victims brother freed himself in this case and attained a higher level of personality spirituality than most of us can hope to achieve.

flowerseverywhere
10-5-19, 6:41am
Rob have you ever been to the lynching museum in Alabama? I think it would interest you.
I have been there and lived in rural Tennessee for a while on a temporary job assignment. There are still many places today in the south where they might as well put a fence between the two sides of town. One side with bars on the windows, pristine lawns and not a soul in sight. The other side with people outside visiting, kids playing, barbecues going and people walking to stores etc. Guess which is the predominant color on each side?
Of course, knowing nothing about the history of the town it would be a fascinating thing to study.
even today, it is not unusual to go by a schoolyard of kids playing on recess and see an almost segregated schoolyard. Sometimes in elementary schools a few miles apart. Not just in the south

catherine
10-5-19, 7:20am
Speaking of forgiveness, I don’t see how anyone could fail to be uplifted by the level of grace the victim’s brother demonstrated. I know I couldn’t in that situation.

I hadn't seen that but just watched it. Very uplifting. Forgiveness is so difficult, and I can imagine almost impossible in this situation.

Yet, in the comments on the YouTube clip that I watched were nothing but cynical: "He did it to make white people happy," "he did it because he was on television." "Oh, it's fake forgiveness because it's too soon." "This is why America is going down-because we're a bunch of wimps who don't stand up for ourselves." I prefer to believe there are saints among us, and he is one of them.

gimmethesimplelife
10-5-19, 11:12am
I hadn't seen that but just watched it. Very uplifting. Forgiveness is so difficult, and I can imagine almost impossible in this situation.

Yet, in the comments on the YouTube clip that I watched were nothing but cynical: "He did it to make white people happy," "he did it because he was on television." "Oh, it's fake forgiveness because it's too soon." "This is why America is going down-because we're a bunch of wimps who don't stand up for ourselves." I prefer to believe there are saints among us, and he is one of them.What a beautiful take, Catherine. I've reflected on your post a bit this morning and I tend to agree. I do see saintly qualities here. And I must admit I doubt I'd personally be capable of this level of forgiveness were I in this situation. A remarkable human being is how I view this man. And also someone from whom many of us including myself can learn something from. Rob

gimmethesimplelife
10-5-19, 11:16am
Rob have you ever been to the lynching museum in Alabama? I think it would interest you.I've heard of this museum, Yppeg, but have never been. It sounds interesting but a bit chilling- along the lines of the genocide museum in the capital of Cambodia I likely never will spell correctly. Or along the lines of the Museum of the disappeared during Pinochet's reign in Chile - this museum being in Santiago. Rob