View Full Version : The smearing of Vindman
flowerseverywhere
10-30-19, 6:58am
The smear campaign by Fox News against Purple Heart recipient Vindman made me ill. How can opinion news hosts sink so low to accuse him of being a traitor or spy? Years and years of exemplary service, bravery and loyalty. This time of course the President, with no evidence called him a “never Trumper” with no supporting evidence.
Im not saying CNN is any better, but how have we come to be a nation where “News” hosts are allowed to make up or infer whatever they want in order to forward their personal biases?
Between the fake ads on Facebook and other platforms, and the major news outlets all spewing their hate and bias I just cannot see where we are going as a nation. I have to tell myself in the long run all will be good, but sometimes I get so darn discouraged. How are we going to get qualified candidates to run when immediately the so called reporters immediately launch into a dig for any personal mistakes or Information that can take down anyone that does not share their beliefs? I doubt that there is anyone who at one time in their youth, has not done something they regret, or at least it was a misstep. Maybe an email or photo, or remark. Especially the further back you dig. I’m losing hope.
iris lilies
10-30-19, 7:37am
I dont know who Vindman is since I dont watch tv news. I think your answer is in your first sentence, these ARE “opinion news hosts” hence the muck-racking.
maybe there is some comfort in the low opinion in which journalists are held by the American public. Less than half trust the media, so that at least is healthy skepticism. It is interesting that distrust of the media was at an all time low in 2016. That is what helped get Donald Trump elected.
https://news.gallup.com/poll/243665/media-trust-continues-recover-2016-low.aspx
Is any of this really new? Jefferson and Adams engaged in an epic smear campaign at the very dawn of the republic. Back in the 19th century, “to lie like a newspaper” was a common expression.
People talk as if there was some golden age of objective journalism, but there has always been bias and opinion baked in. And that will continue as long as there’s a market for it.
Teacher Terry
10-30-19, 11:09am
I find it sickening what they are saying about Vindman. He has the courage to testify to the truth.
JaneV2.0
10-30-19, 11:14am
I find it sickening what they are saying about Vindman. He has the courage to testify to the truth.
And equally sickening is the ongoing attempt to out the whistle blower--Apparently the idea is to intimidate truth-tellers into oblivion.
It's interesting seeing peoples take on things. A whistleblowers second or third hand reports are treated as first hand information by those whom it suits and a military attache is either a Benedict Arnold or an Audie Murphy, depending upon who you're listening to.
As always, I suspect truth lies somewhere in the middle of what most of you believe.
I find the business appalling.
The whistle blowers merely sound the alarm. Then the fact-finders go to work.
And equally sickening is the ongoing attempt to out the whistle blower--Apparently the idea is to intimidate truth-tellers into oblivion.
The whistle blowers merely sound the alarm. Then the fact-finders go to work.
Which is it, truth teller or alarm sounder? One of these things is not like the other.
The whistle blowers merely sound the alarm. Then the fact-finders go to work.
I wonder if the fact-finders will come out of hiding and share with the class anytime soon.
Which is it, truth teller or alarm sounder? One of these things is not like the other.
So someone noticing a blaze and shouting "fire!" is conflicted somehow?
I wonder if the fact-finders will come out of hiding and share with the class anytime soon.
Both Democrats and Republicans from various committees are allowed to participate in the finding of facts. It would be foolish of them to conduct their preliminary investigations in the open so the various potential miscreants could get their stories straight. It's all been done by the book (see previous impeachment inquiries). You'll get your open heaings soon enough.
Both Democrats and Republicans from various committees are allowed to participate in the finding of facts. It would be foolish of them to conduct their preliminary investigations in the open so the various potential miscreants could get their stories straight. It's all been done by the book (see previous impeachment inquiries). You'll get your open heaings soon enough.
Until then we’ll have to rely on strategic leaks.
So someone noticing a blaze and shouting "fire!" is conflicted somehow?
In this case, it’s more like someone heard someone else talking about a fire.
Until then we’ll have to rely on strategic leaks.
I wonder why the republicans haven't been strategically leaking anything, but instead choose to whine about the process they put in place a few years ago when they ran the House.
In this case, it’s more like someone heard someone else talking about a fire.
I think the military officer in question was on the phone call in question. So he was there when the fire was being set.
Both Democrats and Republicans from various committees are allowed to participate in the finding of facts. It would be foolish of them to conduct their preliminary investigations in the open so the various potential miscreants could get their stories straight. It's all been done by the book (see previous impeachment inquiries). You'll get your open heaings soon enough.
You don't actually have to be in the hearing to know what's being said. Yesterday morning on Morning Joe they read their favorite parts of Lt. Col Vindman's opening statement before he had a chance to make them.
I think the military officer in question was on the phone call in question. So he was there when the fire was being set.But he's not the whistleblower who heard it from a friend who heard it from a friend who heard it from another.
This whole impeachment thing makes me think we could do the same thing with the next president by having someone like Rob be the whistleblower after hearing something juicy from the cashier at the local hispanic market. Then we could subpoena anyone who might have something bad to say and accomplish a bloodless coup while keeping the masses happy with all the salacious speculation.
I think the military officer in question was on the phone call in question. So he was there when the fire was being set.
Nobody is claiming that he was the whistler.
Nobody is claiming that he was the whistler.
This thread was about this particular military officer.
Yet "whistleblower" is thrown up, here, by folks. "In this case..." seems to be referring to...what?
Odd. Almost like they want to distract.
Play on.
I wonder why the republicans haven't been strategically leaking anything, but instead choose to whine about the process they put in place a few years ago when they ran the House.
I’ve wondered about that too. Either Republicans are people of such high principle that they would never stoop to leaking, or the people running the committee are keeping the identity secret from the minority members.
This thread was about this particular military officer.
Yet "whistleblower" is thrown up, here, by folks. "In this case..." seems to be referring to...what?
Odd. Almost like they want to distract.
Play on.
In this case, the whistleblower is the person who filed the initial complaint, rather than the people who were subsequently subpoenaed.
In this case, the whistleblower is the person who filed the initial complaint, rather than the people who were subsequently subpoenaed.
...
You don't actually have to be in the hearing to know what's being said. Yesterday morning on Morning Joe they read their favorite parts of Lt. Col Vindman's opening statement before he had a chance to make them.
I believe Vindman gave a copy of his statement to the press ahead of his testimony.
The whistle blower went through the correct channels with his/her information. It wasn't up to him/her to investigate it, too.
Trump has committed more impeachable offenses than anyone in my long memory; no other president comes close, IMO.
I believe Vindman gave a copy of his statement to the press ahead of his testimony.
Realizing that the Google machine can be useful at times I've spent the last 20 minutes trying to find out how everyone got the opening statement before he gave it. I've followed links to CNN, NBC, CBS, NPR, NYT and Washington Post initial story's regarding what he intended to say. Each one failed to mention how they got the transcript but all credited the member of their staff who did get it. I wonder if the Lt. Col. has a preferred contact at every major media outlet?
flowerseverywhere
10-30-19, 6:39pm
Realizing that the Google machine can be useful at times I've spent the last 20 minutes trying to find out how everyone got the opening statement before he gave it. I've followed links to CNN, NBC, CBS, NPR, NYT and Washington Post initial story's regarding what he intended to say. Each one failed to mention how they got the transcript but all credited the member of their staff who did get it. I wonder if the Lt. Col. has a preferred contact at every major media outlet?
Baseless speculation to smear an honorable American Hero.
flowerseverywhere
10-30-19, 6:57pm
This went downhill fast. A US Army Lt. Colonel has been serving his country for years. His numerous medals include a Purple Heart from an IED attack in the Iraq war in 2003. He became a foreign area officer specializing in Eurasia in 2008 and his current position as director of European affairs with the NSC in 2018.
He was on the phone during the Ukranian call. What makes anyone feel he is a traitor for telling the truth? What makes anyone feel they have the right to accuse him of wrongdoing or bias after his distinguished career.?
distract, mislead, talk about the whistleblower or make remarks about other members of this board is cowardly. Is there any evidence he would ruin his career by lying to Congress?
this is why there is so much hatefulness going on right now. I never said Obama or CNN/msnbc etc. were without fault too. Certainly there are things they have done wrong. CNN has made many mountains out of molehills and has missed the mark on their reporting at times. This particular incident was particularly disturbing to me because here is a man that was smeared without evidence he was a spy or not a patriot or made things up because he is a never Trumper. All without a shred of evidence by talking heads and his commander in Chief. Absolutely appalling behavior towards a man who has spent his life serving his country.
If there is evidence of these so far baseless claims, bring them forward.
active as well as retired military deserve far more respect from a nation of spoiled entitled know it alls. I’d like to see them go to Iraq into battle and face the conditions and danger there.
Baseless speculation to smear an honorable American Hero.Or informed speculation to imply that the Democrats are selectively leaking everything they believe will influence their base all the while not believing for a moment that the Lt. Col. leaked his own statement. I guess we're at the point where it depends on what you want to believe.
I’ve wondered about that too. Either Republicans are people of such high principle that they would never stoop to leaking, or the people running the committee are keeping the identity secret from the minority members.
Would watergate have turned out better if we’d known Deep Throat’s identity?
flowerseverywhere
10-30-19, 7:54pm
Or informed speculation to imply that the Democrats are selectively leaking everything they believe will influence their base all the while not believing for a moment that the Lt. Col. leaked his own statement. I guess we're at the point where it depends on what you want to believe.
do you believe he is a liar, traitor, never Trumper or spy?
do you believe he is a liar, traitor, never Trumper or spy?
No, no, no and no. Have I said anything to make you think otherwise?
On second thought he may be a never Trumper since professional military personnel seldom involve themselves in something as political as this, at least they didn't in my day.
He may also be a budding novelist doing advance publicity for a future best seller. Most of the media is doing up the Great American Hero thing for him. Even the most principled might feel the desire to cash in if they can.
No, no, no and no. Have I said anything to make you think otherwise?
On second thought he may be a never Trumper since professional military personnel seldom involve themselves in something as political as this, at least they didn't in my day.
He may also be a budding novelist doing advance publicity for a future best seller. Most of the media is doing up the Great American Hero thing for him. Even the most principled might feel the desire to cash in if they can.
Anyone employing Occam's Razor to try and deduce his motivations would probably disagree with your wild conspiracy theories.
Teacher Terry
10-30-19, 9:24pm
This poor guy is being dragged through the mud. I feel sorry for him and his family.
Anyone employing Occam's Razor to try and deduce his motivations would probably disagree with your wild conspiracy theories.LOL, just giving flowers additional choices to accuse others of believing.
Although I was serious about the possibility of him being a never Trumper (as Seinfeld might say, 'Not that there's anything wrong with that'), otherwise I can't explain his motivation to provide opinions along with whatever facts he may be asked to share. Professional military members don't normally share their political opinions without some other powerful motivation. It's almost unthinkable to have one be a star witness in an impeachment inquiry.
I also think having the committee and the media focus on him among all the other potential witnesses and having him appear in full uniform was a master stroke for those shaping public opinion. That's not a wild conspiracy theory but rather a valid possibility I'd think inquisitive minds would like explained. Or if our members here are indicative of the population at large, maybe not.
LOL, just giving flowers additional choices to accuse others of believing.
Although I was serious about the possibility of him being a never Trumper
I read on facebook the other day that Deep Throat was a "never nixoner". Given the recently deceased Mark Zuckerburg's (I also just read about his unexpected death on facebook) political leanings I wasn't at all surprised to learn this about Mr. Throat.
Please come back and share with us your evidence once you have more than completely absurd conspiracy theories to back up your hypothesis. And maybe stay away from the brietbart and fox "news". It'll be good for your rational thinking.
flowerseverywhere
10-31-19, 5:53am
LOL, just giving flowers additional choices to accuse others of believing.
Although I was serious about the possibility of him being a never Trumper (as Seinfeld might say, 'Not that there's anything wrong with that'), otherwise I can't explain his motivation to provide opinions along with whatever facts he may be asked to share. Professional military members don't normally share their political opinions without some other powerful motivation. It's almost unthinkable to have one be a star witness in an impeachment inquiry.
I also think having the committee and the media focus on him among all the other potential witnesses and having him appear in full uniform was a master stroke for those shaping public opinion. That's not a wild conspiracy theory but rather a valid possibility I'd think inquisitive minds would like explained. Or if our members here are indicative of the population at large, maybe not.
Think what you like. Insult everybody who doesn’t agree with you if it makes you feel superior. No matter how much spin, conspiracy theories and outright lies are spouted over the internet or airwaves, I prefer to see proof of claims.
Think what you like. Insult everybody who doesn’t agree with you if it makes you feel superior. Please allow me to go on record as saying that I do enjoy having a little fun with these discussions but it is never my intention to insult anyone, that is not fun. Maybe we can re-engage in the next thread since I seem to be a distraction on this one.
I don't get it. I would think it would be perfectly normal for an active military officer to appear before congress in his uniform. Anyone who goes against Trump gets his own special derogatory label, but I suspect they are all never Trumpers inside Donald's head.
Soon Vindman's name will fade into the other cast of characters testifying, but the most important witness has spoken, "I would like you to do us a favor, though".
I don't get it. I would think it would be perfectly normal for an active military officer to appear before congress in his uniform.
Okay, one last thought before I step away from this thread. The military takes great pains to remain apolitical, the Lt. Col. was attached to the NSC and was representing that agency during his testimony. I think it was a political decision to have him wear his military uniform for the cameras, whether he made that decision himself or it was suggested by someone else is a mystery to me but I do truly believe it was improper for him to do so.
Alan, you would know better than me. In the big scheme of things it is probably quibbling over details but with some minor importance. However, I was wondering if this is a political issue or a constitutional or legal issue.
ETA: I remember Oliver North testifying in uniform over another arms deal.
ETA: I remember Oliver North testifying in uniform over another arms deal.
Alan can presumably inform us of the rules.
I recall seeing military officers testify in front of Congress constantly. Quite often in uniform.
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/05/08/USAT/f94da691-1f67-429f-b021-240e15fe1030-MilitarySexualAssault.ourview.JPG?width=1320&height=854&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp
Perhaps Vindman should have been forced to do a Game of Thrones-style Walk of Shame?
Alan can presumably inform us of the rules.
I recall seeing military officers testify in front of Congress constantly. Quite often in uniform.
https://www.gannett-cdn.com/presto/2019/05/08/USAT/f94da691-1f67-429f-b021-240e15fe1030-MilitarySexualAssault.ourview.JPG?width=1320&height=854&fit=crop&format=pjpg&auto=webp
Perhaps Vindman should have been forced to do a Game of Thrones-style Walk of Shame?
All snark aside, I doubt anyone in that photo has gone outside their chain of command to report unfavorably on their commander in chief in a political matter. I'm guessing Vindman's superiors are wondering how to deal with this and when the time will be right. A little attention on the optics he provided may have made it easier on all involved.
“ Given the recently deceased Mark Zuckerburg's (I also just read about his unexpected death on facebook) political leanings ...”
What?
https://technology.inquirer.net/55533/facebook-accidentally-declares-its-founder-mark-zuckerberg-dead
flowerseverywhere
11-2-19, 2:52am
All snark aside, I doubt anyone in that photo has gone outside their chain of command to report unfavorably on their commander in chief in a political matter. I'm guessing Vindman's superiors are wondering how to deal with this and when the time will be right. A little attention on the optics he provided may have made it easier on all involved.
Why these discussions always end up being non productive.
“I doubt” and “I’m guessing” doesn’t make it a fact. Which is exactly what my point was starting this thread. Like the Donald’s “people are saying”, facts would be far more accurate than guesses and doubts used to discredit someone. In the case of this witness, I found it to be particularly appalling. It’s everyones choice who to believe. I prefer to believe a man who has served his country honorably for many years.
“ Given the recently deceased Mark Zuckerburg's (I also just read about his unexpected death on facebook) political leanings ...”
What?
It may have been a fake article. Not sure since facebook is cool with that.
All snark aside, I doubt anyone in that photo has gone outside their chain of command to report unfavorably on their commander in chief in a political matter. I'm guessing Vindman's superiors are wondering how to deal with this and when the time will be right. A little attention on the optics he provided may have made it easier on all involved.
Maybe they didn't ever need to go outside the chain of command because they didn't have the top lawyer in their organization telling them to keep quiet about the wrongdoing.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/white-house-official-who-heard-trumps-call-with-ukraine-leader-testified-that-he-was-told-to-keep-quiet/2019/11/01/dbed7fae-fc07-11e9-ac8c-8eced29ca6ef_story.html
He’s not dead. Lots of people were listed as deceased on Facebook for a few hours this week - then the glitch was fixed,
It may have been a fake article. Not sure since facebook is cool with that.
He’s not dead. Lots of people were listed as deceased on Facebook for a few hours this week - then the glitch was fixed,
It happened on Facebook 3 years ago. Last week an Australian satire site ran a short story with his after death quotes regarding fake news on Facebook. https://www.theshovel.com.au/2019/10/24/mark-zuckerburg-dead-at-32-denies-facebook-has-problem-with-fake-news/
I am 3 years behind the times. I turned 58 yesterday. Seems about right for my age ....
I am 3 years behind the times. I turned 58 yesterday. Seems about right for my age ....I turned 64 on Friday. Happy Birthday to us!
My SO's was on the 29th--I've always wanted to celebrate it, Halloween, the Mexican Day of the Dead, and All Soul's Day as a kind of week of festivities. Felicitations to all you Scorpios!
Hurrah for birthdays that also include Halloween candy! 🍭 🍬
iris lilies
11-3-19, 4:23pm
4 of the 5 kids in DH’s family were born in October.
Northern Iowa is cold and dreary in January. Everyone needs all the fun they can get...
4 of the 5 kids in DH’s family were born in October.
Northern Iowa is cold and dreary in January. Everyone needs all the fun they can get...There's truth in that. I was the oldest of 5 and 4 of us were born in Oct/Nov/Dec.
flowerseverywhere
11-4-19, 7:31am
Here we go again. Trump promising “dirt” on Vindman. He seems to be one of the few except fox state news disputing what he said about his “perfect” phone call of which only a partial report of what he said was released, not the transcript.
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