Pensacola shooter gun question

[flowerseverywhere]

Frequently guns come up in the discussion here. The opinions range from every gun should be banned/melted down/confiscated, vs. anyone should be able to concealed carry/open carry/ purchase anything they want, any where, any time, any age, any mental condition.

Obviously, most lie in between. So a Saudi soldier was training in the US. He legally bought a handgun and opened fire on US soldiers at Pensacola, killing several Of course most news in the US is Trump, Republicans are the Devil or the chosen ones saving us from the deep state Democrats vs. Schiff/Pelosi are our knights in shining armor saving us from the Republican crooks, liars and felons. So a few blurbs about this tragic situation are buried on the major news sites. Per the BBC that handgun was legally bought by him.

why in the world can a Saudi legally buy a gun in the US. Please explain to my feeble mind. does our constitution give anyone legally here the right to bear arms?

[bae]

https://www.atf.gov/qa-category/nonimmigrant-aliens

[bae]

In the abstract though, would visiting foreigners be afforded any of the other freedoms laid out in our Bill of Rights?

Freedom of religion? Speech? Rights to trial? Etc?

[flowerseverywhere]

Bae, I read the rules but I still wonder why? You aren’t killing anyone by praying in a mosque.
The right to trial issue I believe is why Guantanamo bay remains open. Taking the prisoners to the US would afford them US rights.

[bae]

Bae, I read the rules but I still wonder why?

Well, the rules basically disagree with your initial premise that "our constitution gives anyone legally here the right to bear arms".

[bae]

Bae, I read the rules but I still wonder why?

But in the abstract, should visitors be denied freedom of religion, or of speech, or of rights to trial, and so on?

[Yppej]

Flowerseverwhere it is for the benefit of big game ranches, hunting guides, and others who make a living off tourist hunters.

[flowerseverywhere]

Well, the rules basically disagree with your initial premise that "our constitution gives anyone legally here the right to bear arms".
It wasn’t my premise, it was a question. I think when I first read the gun was bought legally I was very surprised. I had no idea it could be legal.

[dado potato]

Ron De Santis, Governor of Florida, has called for changes in federal law "to close the loophole" that allows foreign nationals to buy firearms. In this instance, the foreign national had a valid Florida hunting license. With that he was able to buy a .45 cal. pistol. There is an entire array of guns and ammo he could have legally bought with that hunting license. It may seem like common sense to restrict what a foreign national can buy, to limit the lethality of his weaponry, since a background check would not disclose information about his convictions in a foreign jurisdiction.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I wish this tragic event had not taken place. Now lad abiding non-dangerous in any way, shape, or form Muslims who are legally in the US will be looked upon with yet more suspicion. Rob

[LDAHL]

I wish this tragic event had not taken place. Now lad abiding non-dangerous in any way, shape, or form Muslims who are legally in the US will be looked upon with yet more suspicion. Rob

The same way certain prejudiced minds might look upon the police in the wake of an officer-involved incident?

[Tybee]

I wish it had not taken place, as well. I cannot imagine the horror of losing one's family member on a Naval base--it is like someone coming into your home and shooting your family--I am glad the FBI is looking at this as an act of terrorism.

[Teacher Terry]

The morning of the shooting I had not heard about it. I woke up to a panicked message from my husband’s aunt because my step son is in the military in Pensacola. Thankfully he messaged me immediately and was on his way to his next duty station and left that morning.

[gimmethesimplelife]

The same way certain prejudiced minds might look upon the police in the wake of an officer-involved incident?I see the two as very different. One is discrimination based on religion/skin color, the other is fear based on lack of accountability and a track record of disregard for the law, along with complete and total imbalance of power expected. I don't see the two as the same at all....but then I didn't indoctrinate well into this society and saw through it quite quickly. Other people's mileage is going to vary based upon which America they live in, I get that. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

The morning of the shooting I had not heard about it. I woke up to a panicked message from my husband’s aunt because my step son is in the military in Pensacola. Thankfully he messaged me immediately and was on his way to his next duty station and left that morning.I'm glad to hear that your stepson is safe and in one piece, TT. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I wish it had not taken place, as well. I cannot imagine the horror of losing one's family member on a Naval base--it is like someone coming into your home and shooting your family--I am glad the FBI is looking at this as an act of terrorism.I'm glad too as I do view this incident as terrorism myself. Rob

[LDAHL]

I see the two as very different. One is discrimination based on religion/skin color, the other is fear based on lack of accountability and a track record of disregard for the law, along with complete and total imbalance of power expected. I don't see the two as the same at all....but then I didn't indoctrinate well into this society and saw through it quite quickly. Other people's mileage is going to vary based upon which America they live in, I get that. Rob

Perhaps only someone with your clarity of mind can detect the difference. I simply see two cases of generalizing from the violent actions of a tiny minority to condemn an entire group.

[gimmethesimplelife]

Perhaps only someone with your clarity of mind can detect the difference. I simply see two cases of generalizing from the violent actions of a tiny minority to condemn an entire group.No snark and no offense meant here, OK? Truly we don't live in the same America, either. In my America, smartphone video pretty much disproves what you've posted here on a regular if not daily basis. At this point, with all the intense division in this country, I honestly believe I couldn't live for very long in your America. Putting it civilly, to me it's a very strange place. Rob

[flowerseverywhere]

Ron De Santis, Governor of Florida, has called for changes in federal law "to close the loophole" that allows foreign nationals to buy firearms. In this instance, the foreign national had a valid Florida hunting license. With that he was able to buy a .45 cal. pistol. There is an entire array of guns and ammo he could have legally bought with that hunting license. It may seem like common sense to restrict what a foreign national can buy, to limit the lethality of his weaponry, since a background check would not disclose information about his convictions in a foreign jurisdiction.
I’m hot and cold on Ron DeSantis. His comments on this case and several other issues look pretty reasonable to me. Unfortunately the voters last election voted to restore voting rights to non violent felons who served their time. He’s worked hard to throw a monkey wrench in that.

Unfortunately, I think the outcome of any call to any legislation changes will be whomever or whatever interest group has the most sway (ie. Money to politicians) will probably win out. As the months go by I see very few politicians remaining true to their pledge to serve the American people.

[iris lilies]

I’m hot and cold on Ron DeSantis. His comments on this case and several other issues look pretty reasonable to me. Unfortunately the voters last election voted to restore voting rights to non violent felons who served their time. He’s worked hard to throw a monkey wrench in that.

Unfortunately, I think the outcome of any call to any legislation changes will be whomever or whatever interest group has the most sway (ie. Money to politicians) will probably win out.

As the months go by I see very few politicians remaining true to their pledge to serve the American people.



to the bolded, I don’t see why influencers who send money to the politicians are any less American than those who do not.

I guess I don’t have any real problem with non-violent felons getting their voting rights back. I haven’t read up on the issue so I don’t know what the real problems are with that. As a long term punishment for being Convicted of a felony, I doubt it has much weight. Besides, in my corrupt Democratically controlled city I am sure the I am sure the felon could find a way to vote if he wish to do so, and often. .

[LDAHL]

No snark and no offense meant here, OK? Truly we don't live in the same America, either. In my America, smartphone video pretty much disproves what you've posted here on a regular if not daily basis. At this point, with all the intense division in this country, I honestly believe I couldn't live for very long in your America. Putting it civilly, to me it's a very strange place. Rob

Isn’t every form of bigotry just a matter of believing your own false impressions? Any bigot will tell you he’s got the evidence to back up his claims, when he’s really just curating his personal collection of anecdotes. You’ve been living in my America your whole life, as I have been living in yours. But it’s a Bring Your Own Bias party, and we all contribute different dishes.

[flowerseverywhere]

to the bolded, I don’t see why influencers who send money to the politicians are any less American than those who do not.

I guess I don’t have any real problem with non-violent felons getting their voting rights back. I haven’t read up on the issue so I don’t know what the real problems are with that. As a long term punishment for being Convicted of a felony, I doubt it has much weight. Besides, in my corrupt Democratically controlled city I am sure the I am sure the felon could find a way to vote if he wish to do so, and often. .

I have a problem with influencers who are in it to simply make more money and don’t care how and who it affects.

for instance drug pricing.
aspirin lobby gives big money to candidates of the headache party. They then raise the price from a penny a tablet to ten dollars a tablet. Heart patients say wait a minute, I take one every day on the advice from my MD. 30 cents to $300 per month will make it unaffordable. The headache party looks the other way and spins how much money was put into research and adding two grains of salt to the aspirin. Repeat with epipens, insulin and so on. That is not serving the people. I know My aspirin premise is a ridiculous premise, but the kind of political influence that leads to bankrupting, cheating or killing people solely for profit just because you can get away with it, as opposed to doing what is best for he country was my point.

[Tradd]

We need to end the training of foreign military here. Period. I know it has been going on for a long time, but I’m not surprised it’s someone from SA, given the “someone”s that “did something” on 9/11.

[Tradd]

Rob doesn’t trust cops. I don’t trust non-Christian Middle Easterners.

[JaneV2.0]

I agree with Tradd about military training; I don't like being seen as a militaristic country, and we don't need to arm/train the world.

I don't trust religious fanatics of any denomination, nor people who weaponize their faith.

And like Rob, I would be wary of police if I lived where they were an oppressive, trigger-happy presence.

[gimmethesimplelife]

I agree with Tradd about military training; I don't like being seen as a militaristic country, and we don't need to arm/train the world.

I don't trust religious fanatics of any denomination, nor people who weaponize their faith.

And like Rob, I would be wary of police if I lived where they were an oppressive, trigger-happy presence.Jane, Thank You. I find your take here very balanced, rational, and adult and I agree with all you have posted here. Rob

[bae]

We need to end the training of foreign military here. Period.

It would seem to me there would be some advantages to having common training, procedures, equipment, and understanding with the military forces of our allies.

I know in the fire service this is very helpful, when we are called in for mutual aid. ( Oddly, a side-effect of the post-9/11 world has been nation-wide training standards for command-and-control and incident management for first responders, as the response to Katrina and 9/11 demonstrated that we were sort of bad at this.)

[Yppej]

I found Medea Benjamin's book The U.S.-Saudi Connection informative. The Saudi government are thugs and we shouldn't be in bed with them.

[Tradd]

I agree with Tradd about military training; I don't like being seen as a militaristic country, and we don't need to arm/train the world.

I don't trust religious fanatics of any denomination, nor people who weaponize their faith.

And like Rob, I would be wary of police if I lived where they were an oppressive, trigger-happy presence.

I know a good number of Middle Eastern Christians. The bottom line is that they are not trying to blow us up. The Muslims, on the other hand...Religion of peace? What an effin’ crock of BS.

[Yppej]

Agreed Tradd. I have a Coptic Christian friend who faced harassment and discrimination before coming to the US. If she stayed who knows but she could have died in one of the many attacks on Christian churches. One thing I agree with Trump on is that when taking in refugees from places like Syria we should prioritize persecuted groups like Christians.

[bae]

Rob doesn’t trust cops. I don’t trust non-Christian Middle Easterners.

Are Jews OK?

[Teacher Terry]

Discrimination against people of certain religions in regard to immigration is wrong and hopefully illegal.

[Yppej]

We should be assisting religious refugees - whether Christians and Yazidis in the Middle East or Rohinga Muslims in Southeast Asia, or Muslims interned in concentration camps in China. It is not against any religion. Imagine how many lives we could have saved in the years leading up to WW2 if we'd had an immigration policy favoring Jewish refugees from Germany.

[Teacher Terry]

Y, yes we just turned away Jewish people. Heartbreaking.

[JaneV2.0]

I know a good number of Middle Eastern Christians. The bottom line is that they are not trying to blow us up. The Muslims, on the other hand...Religion of peace? What an effin’ crock of BS.

I knew some Syrian Catholics growing up, and I knew Muslims in college. The Muslims I knew were not trying to blow anyone up--they were just trying to get through finals, like everyone else. Lots of religions have brutal sects--the KKK come to mind, and "identity Christians," notable for Timothy McVeigh. The Old Testament could hardly be more violent, prescribing abortion and murder and all kinds of mayhem. Most people, everywhere, just want to live peaceful lives, unmolested.

[Teacher Terry]

People have been slaughtered through the ages all for a god that no one knows even exists.

[LDAHL]

People have been slaughtered through the ages all for a god that no one knows even exists.

I think that is something of an oversimplification.

Religious fanaticism in its purest form is relatively rare. Mostly it’s people using religion to justify or obscure their motivations to grab some temporal wealth and power, or to persecute people they think need persecuting. If not God, they would readily find some other excuse. Ideology, patriotism, tribalism, racial identity and various other ideas have served just as well for even greater levels of atrocity than any inquisitor or crusader could aspire to.