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Rogar
1-1-20, 9:58am
Starting today all new residential building in California three stories or less will be required to have rooftop solar panels, or access to community solar projects. I suppose experts have studied this, but it seems like a myopic solution to achieving reductions in greenhouse gasses. My energy provider here has proposed to reduce carbon emissions to meet the 2030 goal of a 50% reduction and the 2050 goal of zero emissions using a combination of wind and solar farms. They've currently retired half of their coal plants in the 12 state area they serve. It's probably just paper shuffling, but I opt for my billing to reflect all my electricity coming for wind power. It's all positive news, but it does seem like there should be more uniform solutions?

Yppej
1-1-20, 10:46am
A lot of energy is lost over transmission lines. I liked the Smartflower but the company never got back to me. I also wish there were batteries for houses, like exist for hybrid cars, using hydrogen fuel cells. I would love a future in which we can ditch the utility companies in the same way we can now ditch land line phones with all their wires.

mschrisgo2
1-1-20, 4:10pm
California is a little different with respect to energy production. We don’t use coal at all. Oil has been almost totally eliminated. The majority of energy is already wind, solar, and hydro. What they are really after with the solar mandate is eliminating the use of natural gas, now used for furnaces, stoves, and water heaters.

ToomuchStuff
1-2-20, 3:40am
California is a little different with respect to energy production. We don’t use coal at all. Oil has been almost totally eliminated. The majority of energy is already wind, solar, and hydro. What they are really after with the solar mandate is eliminating the use of natural gas, now used for furnaces, stoves, and water heaters.
You mean the things that work, during their rolling blackouts?

Rogar
1-2-20, 9:34am
California is a little different with respect to energy production. We don’t use coal at all. Oil has been almost totally eliminated. The majority of energy is already wind, solar, and hydro. What they are really after with the solar mandate is eliminating the use of natural gas, now used for furnaces, stoves, and water heaters.

I understand most of that and it makes sense, but one thing I don't get is how solar can be used in place of furnaces. There are electric stoves and I believe electric water heaters, but home heating is traditionally forced air natural gas furnaces. The only alternative I know of is possibly hot water baseboard heating. Around here it's know as very inefficient and uncommon. I suppose at least for new housing there could be reasonable alternatives. I think the real breakthrough in renewables will be battery technology advances that will allow homes to truly be off the grid with solar panels but that's a ways off.

Our public service provider has some commitments to reducing carbon emissions. I wonder if there are initiatives on the east coastal areas? I'd think the areas that still use heating oil would be difficult for any sort of renewable conversion?

Alan
1-2-20, 9:58am
Our public service provider has some commitments to reducing carbon emissions. I wonder if there are initiatives on the east coastal areas? I'd think the areas that still use heating oil would be difficult for any sort of renewable conversion?I'm sure there are initiatives everywhere, the problem is governments involve themselves and do feel good things which then have a major impact on service providers and their customers. The state of New York banned additional natural gas pipelines in the state which effectively limited the supply of natural gas to whatever was currently being used to service existing customers. Then areas began new construction and their is now not enough capacity to provide clean natural gas to the sites. This leaves the dirtier, less environmentally friendly heating oil to do the job.

razz
1-2-20, 11:51am
Serious question

Since climate change is now recognized by most, since for-profit companies must answer to shareholders who expect high annual returns and current investment is focused on fewer and fewer companies who are aggressively buying back their shares, where is the initiative to deal with the effects of climate change going to come from except from governments setting standards to achieve?

It is so easy to bash governments who try by pointing out the limitations of the initiatives presented but rarely do I read about suggestions from individuals or corporations to develop significant proposals or improvements on the government initiatives on how to deal with climate change.

Before one bashes, should one not be prepared to offer an alternative or even a better initiative? The bashing routine gets very tiresome and reflects very limited thinking on an issue that will and does impact our world and our children's children.

ApatheticNoMore
1-2-20, 12:02pm
You mean the things that work, during their rolling blackouts?

Solar power had nothing to do with blackouts.

JaneV2.0
1-2-20, 12:24pm
I get the feeling natural gas has dwindling support in the PNW. I have electric heat (forced air), and I strongly prefer it to gas or oil.

Rogar
1-2-20, 12:49pm
Serious question

Since climate change is now recognized by most, since for-profit companies must answer to shareholders who expect high annual returns and current investment is focused on fewer and fewer companies who are aggressively buying back their shares, where is the initiative to deal with the effects of climate change going to come from except from governments setting standards to achieve?

It is so easy to bash governments who try by pointing out the limitations of the initiatives presented but rarely do I read about suggestions from individuals or corporations to develop significant proposals or improvements on the government initiatives on how to deal with climate change.

Before one bashes, should one not be prepared to offer an alternative or even a better initiative? The bashing routine gets very tiresome and reflects very limited thinking on an issue that will and does impact our world and our children's children.

My short answer from what I've read of our regional service provider, which invites fact checking, is that solar and wind power costs have come down so much in the last few years that it is as cost competitive to traditional coal or natural gas. Some of this has to do with government financial incentives but not all. So regulation really isn't needed in a lot of places because it makes good business sense. One problem is that the sun and wind are not constant, so it requires traditional energy sources to ramp up and down during shortages of wind or sun, but I think still here it a business decision. They are saying we may get to the 2030 goal of 50% reductions and still be profitable, but just doesn't get to the carbon zero goals without new technology like better battery storage. It obviously takes time to replace the old technology with the new. It's not so much government regulation or incentive, it's just not very feasible yet.

Here in the windy sunny west it makes sense but there are places with less opportune climates. Maybe in those places the government has to intervene somehow. I don't have those answers. To think that the alternatives are particularly green is not totally realistic. I think there are a few tons of plastic in just one turbine blade. Solar panels are not forever and have to be replaced and recycled, which goes for any battery storage as well. It's not an easy problem.

bae
1-2-20, 1:17pm
What is the total life-cycle carbon and pollution cost of current-generation solar panels, installed for residential use?

How much does it cost to mine & refine the materials, fabricate the panels and inverters and such, transport them, install them, de-install them, and recycle/dispose of them at their end of life?

I elected here to participate heavily in a community solar farm, where the panels are right at the transmission station on a near-perfect site, and it's probably the best investment I could have made with the cash at the time. The project was heavily subsidized by federal and state grants, so someone else is paying for much of my power now, which is fine with me I guess.

Rogar
1-2-20, 2:04pm
What is the total life-cycle carbon and pollution cost of current-generation solar panels, installed for residential use?

How much does it cost to mine & refine the materials, fabricate the panels and inverters and such, transport them, install them, de-install them, and recycle/dispose of them at their end of life?

It's not exactly a black hole of knowledge. For what it might be worth.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life-cycle_greenhouse-gas_emissions_of_energy_sources

kib
1-2-20, 2:49pm
Don't forget, gas furnaces, coal furnaces and oil burners and their infrastructure also have significant life-cycle costs, and they don't last forever either. It's not like our current technology has a huge leg up over the production of alternatives.

mschrisgo2
1-2-20, 11:49pm
Discontinuing the residential use of natural gas will save either building or replacing thousands of miles of pipe for delivery of gas. It also reduces the risk of being blown up by same. Gas forced air heat is not very efficient, as the air ducts break apart and leak and get worse with every earthquake, lots of heat is lost. Electric heat, in the form of mini-splits, ductless, seems to be the current trend.

I know several families who were able to keep their homes functional during the blackouts by using their solar collection directly. Of course, it didn’t help at night, but it’s a good start in divesting us of dependence on the big- corrupt- power companies. In essence, each home becomes its own power supplier. All we really need now is safe storage “batteries” for residential use. I’m confident that someone, probably a young person, will invent it very soon. We have been talking about ”living off the grid” for years and it is beginning to happen on a large scale. I say, bring it on!

mschrisgo2
1-3-20, 12:03am
I think we are close to a time of discontinuing water heater tanks and using electric instant hot or on-demand instead. More efficient. Electric stoves are widely used in residential.

Actually, if you think about it, the “important” things, electronics, already have their own rechargeable batteries. Just add batteries to a few more things that need to run 24/7, like the refrigerator. Problem solved.

Tammy
1-3-20, 2:33am
We switched to a small wall-mounted on-demand electric water heater. Works great.

ToomuchStuff
1-3-20, 2:42am
Solar power had nothing to do with blackouts.

So everything was forcefully, and automatically upgraded, and worked, during the blackouts, and everybody had full power?

jp1
1-3-20, 7:03am
You mean the things that work, during their rolling blackouts?

My gas furnace and water heater don’t work without electricity.

Of course during fire season one isn’t likely to need the furnace anyway. It’s not like the fires happen in January.

kib
1-3-20, 12:39pm
I think we are close to a time of discontinuing water heater tanks and using electric instant hot or on-demand instead. More efficient. Electric stoves are widely used in residential.

Actually, if you think about it, the “important” things, electronics, already have their own rechargeable batteries. Just add batteries to a few more things that need to run 24/7, like the refrigerator. Problem solved. I think a combination of on and off grid solutions would be helpful. We have grid-tied solar, and our local power company wouldn't allow a hybrid system installation so we could utilize direct solar or have a battery backup in an emergency. Set up differently, we'd still depend on the power company for some of our power, but we'd be able to maintain the essentials in the case of an incident. So at least in our case, I feel like it's primarily bureaucracy and corporate greed that's the roadblock between our home and real progress.

Teacher Terry
1-3-20, 2:31pm
We have electric baseboard heat and it’s expensive. The first winter our bill was 500 in January and it doesn’t get that cold here. Now when I go to bed I turn them down to 55 and close our bedroom door. We keep our bedroom at 68. When we get up in the morning it’s freezing. Our bill will still be 250 this month.

JaneV2.0
1-3-20, 3:09pm
My electric bill runs $104 a month, but I keep a pretty chilly house.

I see gas heat as sitting on a potential bomb; it seems there are always gas leaks around town, streets blocked off, citizens warned away...Not to mention the ever-looming threat of carbon monoxide poisoning, and the occasional pipeline breach. Unlikely on a case by case basis, but it's an avoidable risk.

Halltheway
3-13-20, 3:33pm
I really would be great if there were larger scale solutions, which is what I think you mean by more uniform solutions. I kinda also think that there is a positive feedback that is created with every small solution. If even a small handful of homes get solar installed (the new homes in CA), it will create an increment of more business for the solar industry as a whole. These businesses in this industry will then take that increased business and strength to bring down their costs further, and make it even easier for solar to gain the traction that it really should have. It's more cost effective overall, IMO, than fossil fuels. I know that opens a large can of worms for discussion, but anyway.

KingsX
11-25-20, 1:31am
What the planet needs is clean and unlimited space-based solar energy.

Back in the 1990s, Congress asked NASA to research space-based solar. After a three year study with positive results, in 2001 NASA asked for and received funding for a new space-based solar energy program. But later that year, NASA's space-based solar program was mysteriously canceled without public explanation [the last update on it's now defunct space-based solar energy website was August 2001.]

invisibleflash
12-2-20, 9:23pm
In the rustbelt the sun does not come out for a week sometimes. Solar is only a supplement here.

I drove through IN last week. Tons of windmills. They must be one of the leaders in wind.