View Full Version : It's starting......
gimmethesimplelife
1-7-20, 8:19pm
Iran apparently just attacked a base in Iraq housing US soldiers. It's starting.....this salvo on the part of Iran with Trump at the helm seems to be sealing the fate of a war. How intense and sweeping and catostrophic it will be I don't know - but it's starting.
Hang tight. Stock up on food. Pack bags to run just in case. Anything small and valuable keep locked up and near you should you need to run in a hurry. Pets indoors more. Running money hidden but quickly accesssable. These are tips Austrians pass around when everything seems uncertain and unstable.
I wish I could fly with my relatives to Vienna and pray at Stephansdom for all if us. As it is I will attend morning Mass tomorrow as I'm off and pray for all of us here in Phoenix. Rob
These are tips Austrians pass around when everything seems uncertain and unstable.
Really?
Gas jumped 14 cents a gallon where I am and that was before news of the missiles fired at the US air base.
gimmethesimplelife
1-7-20, 8:45pm
Really?Si, Senor. Really. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-7-20, 8:47pm
Gas jumped 14 cents a gallon where I am and that was before news of the missiles fired at the US air base.I wonder if gas will go to USD $4 a gallon or more now if Iran seals that straight oil tankers go through.....that straight that starts with an H that they control. Rob
Si, Senor. Really. Rob
Where do Austrians typically run to in a hurry when under threat of terror or war?
Have they had a lot of experience recently with asymmetric warfare within their borders? I remember the '85 attacks, and a couple of others.
Where, Rob, are *you* planning on running to in a hurry, when your zip code is attacked? What form of attack are you expecting?
I wonder if gas will go to USD $4 a gallon or more now
It's been that price where I live for ages now. Doesn't seem to slow us down.
I think it only dropped below $4/gallon in California a bit before Thanksgiving this year.
I wonder if gas will go to USD $4 a gallon or more now if Iran seals that straight oil tankers go through.....that straight that starts with an H that they control. Rob
What happened last time they tried that? It was in 1988. If I recall, we sank most of their navy in an afternoon.
What happened last time they tried that? It was in 1988. If I recall, we sank most of their navy in an afternoon.
Yes, half their navy at least. It really changed their attitude.
Yes, half their navy at least. It really changed their attitude.
Well, I Amazon-Primed another couple cases of toilet paper. The real measure of a good prepper is how much toilet paper they have on-hand. Better to barter with than gold.
Teacher Terry
1-7-20, 9:17pm
I really feel sorry for the average person and families in Iran and Iraq. Because of our orange moron many people will lose their lives and their livelihood as well as our country losing our young people. It’s sickening. We may have more domestic terror but where would I run to? You wouldn’t know in advance where strikes will occur.
I really feel sorry for the average person and families in Iran and Iraq. Because of our orange moron many people will lose their lives and their livelihood as well as our country losing our young people. It’s sickening. We may have more domestic terror but where would I run to? You wouldn’t know in advance where strikes will occur.You know Iran has been firing rockets into Iraq for quite some time don't you? The most high profile attack was against an Aramco facility this past summer along with several other oil producing facilities since then. They also seem to have organized the recent attack on our Embassy in Baghdad. But Trump.....yeah.
You know Iran has been firing rockets into Iraq for quite some time don't you?
The struggle between those two countries has killed generations of young men and women. The figures for the war that "ended" in 1988 are horrendous.
Teacher Terry
1-7-20, 10:08pm
Yes I know that but I don’t know one person happy with our involvement. I am sick of constant war and wish we would totally get out of the Middle East.
ApatheticNoMore
1-7-20, 10:42pm
It may not be Trump, there may be systemic reasons why the U.S. needs to be chronically at war (in the middle east), since that kind of is policy across administrations (not that I cut Trump any slack, since he's all around terrible on everything). But those reasons are no better likely. It's all an ugly business.
Teacher Terry
1-7-20, 11:12pm
His campaign promise was to get us out of the Middle East. He wants to distract everyone from everything else he has done.
We are in the Middle East due to oil. All the more reason to pursue green policies. If you factor in the costs of war renewable energy is much cheaper than oil.
flowerseverywhere
1-8-20, 7:28am
For those that remember the Vietnam war, and watching the nightly news coverage, the US lost almost 60,000 soldiers. Each one a living human being. What Is the value of each life?
An excellent documentary on this is “The fog of war”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Fog_of_War
every time I see the US involved in these border or religious wars I feel sick and wonder 1. Why have we engaged in this fight? 2. What is our exit strategy? 3. What will US citizens gain and is the cost worth it?
Apparently no one was hurt in Iran's missile attack. Maybe they've saved face now and things can settle down some.
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 10:38am
Apparently no one was hurt in Iran's missile attack. Maybe they've saved face now and things can settle down some.That would truly be a wonderful outcome. Crossing fingers! Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 10:38am
We are in the Middle East due to oil. All the more reason to pursue green policies. If you factor in the costs of war renewable energy is much cheaper than oil.Agreed 100 percent! Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 10:47am
Where do Austrians typically run to in a hurry when under threat of terror or war?
Have they had a lot of experience recently with asymmetric warfare within their borders? I remember the '85 attacks, and a couple of others.
Where, Rob, are *you* planning on running to in a hurry, when your zip code is attacked? What form of attack are you expecting?In the past, Austrians have fled to the mountains. If things ever really truly became WW2 level bad, I'd say the Santa Catalina Muntain Range outside if Tucson might be good to flee to if it's a suvivalustic situation akin to being Jewish in WW2 Europe. Rob
Apparently no one was hurt in Iran's missile attack. Maybe they've saved face now and things can settle down some.
So, either the intent was to make a nonlethal face-saving gesture, or it was a very poorly executed strike.
We are in the Middle East due to oil. All the more reason to pursue green policies. If you factor in the costs of war renewable energy is much cheaper than oil.
Exactly. American oligarchs have a lot of money tied up in foreign oil. Let's get out entirely.
There is also a lot of money tied up in war machines and weapons.
There is also a lot of money tied up in war machines and weapons.
Exactly. War profiteers are the scum of the earth, filling their pockets with blood money.
"In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists, and will persist." -Dwight D Eisenhower, 1961
In the past, Austrians have fled to the mountains. If things ever really truly became WW2 level bad, I'd say the Santa Catalina Muntain Range outside if Tucson might be good to flee to if it's a suvivalustic situation akin to being Jewish in WW2 Europe. Rob
Have you, um, been to those mountains and spent a lot of time there? (Glamping doesn't count...)
I think the common thought of "I'll just flee to the mountains or the countryside" is just a foolish fantasy for most people.
They lack the skills to survive there, and the local contacts and knowledge to gain the support of the local residents. And haven't really thought through what's going to happen when they and every other person with the same idea decides to try to get there, and try to survive afterwards.
They'll just die - cold, hungry, thirsty, and suffering from disease.
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 1:08pm
Have you, um, been to those mountains and spent a lot of time there? (Glamping doesn't count...)
I think the common thought of "I'll just flee to the mountains or the countryside" is just a foolish fantasy for most people.
They lack the skills to survive there, and the local contacts and knowledge to gain the support of the local residents. And haven't really thought through what's going to happen when they and every other person with the same idea decides to try to get there, and try to survive afterwards.
They'll just die - cold, hungry, thirsty, and suffering from disease.Bae......your assets are showing.
I don't mean this in a nasty, snarky way, either. What I mean is if pressed for survival, people will tend to do whatever it takes.....necessity is the mother of all invention they say. Reading the accounts of some Holocaust survivors it is amazing whst people did to try to make it to the next day.
Granted, right now in the 85006 even things are not at or even near this level - I'm talking worst cade scenario/not to flee equals fairly certain death. Perhaps for some fleeong equals death on their iwn terms and some will survive.
I don't know what's going to happen and I trust neither side - Iran or the US. I owe it to Austria to survive uf I can should things gey very bad. Once again, who knows what is going to happen.
I do believe practical people would be making contingency plans, just in case. Rob
Bae......your assets are showing.
My "assets" in this case are a lifetime of experience learning to live in the woods, mountains, and rural areas.
I saved someone's life just the other day who thought it was a good idea to go for a short hike, and who didn't understand how quickly a day can turn very very bad for those lacking skills and awareness. It took hours, and a rappel down a 500 foot cliff face. In weather so bad that neither the Navy nor the Coast Guard were able to launch and assist.
Rob - have you ever spent a week or two, unsupported, by yourself, in the woods/mountains?
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 1:13pm
Auto correct is really frustrating! Should be: what people did, worst case scenario, for some fleeing, death on their own terms, survive if I can, should things get very bad above. I can't go back to my OP to correct all this on my phone as the site software will only delete my post if I do. Rob
ApatheticNoMore
1-8-20, 1:13pm
We are in the Middle East due to oil. All the more reason to pursue green policies. If you factor in the costs of war renewable energy is much cheaper than oil.
but maybe we don't pursue green policies for the same reason, we have too much invested in being dependent on oil? Who is we? Uh it's not joe blow ("but he drives!" - no sorry, not even,he's not even part of it), it's the U.S. empire and industry.
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 1:18pm
My "assets" in this case are a lifetime of experience learning to live in the woods, mountains, and rural areas.
I saved someone's life just the other day who thought it was a good idea to go for a short hike, and who didn't understand how quickly a day can turn very very bad for those lacking skills and awareness. It took hours, and a rappel down a 500 foot cliff face. In weather so bad that neither the Navy nor the Coast Guard were able to launch and assist.
Rob - have you ever spent a week or two, unsupported, by yourself, in the woods/mountains?No, I haven't.....have you been in a survival situation as dire as what I am getting at above? Survival trumps (no pun intended) all including logic - and you have posted logic, I'll grant you that - posted from a comfortable asset base. That's jyst human reality when the world turns upside down. Look at all who survived on their wits in the woods in WW2 - they didn't all enter the woods with your skills. Survival compelled them to make it up as they went along. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 1:18pm
Should be just human reality above.
Teacher Terry
1-8-20, 1:19pm
When I first moved to the West coast I was surprised that every year people would die in the mountains hiking. Usually they got lost, cell phones don’t work and they find their bodies in the spring. I had a group of friends that I hiked with and one day it starts to snow in October and I think how cool is that. 2 of the group said we have to go down. I asked why and they said because the snow would cover the trail and we could get lost.
That's a lack of a plan, Rob. It's a fantasy. Some people may get lucky doing it. Most will die, terribly. Betting on luck isn't preparedness.
Better off to have a reality/data-based plan. Well ahead of time.
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 1:21pm
Have you, um, been to those mountains and spent a lot of time there? (Glamping doesn't count...)
I think the common thought of "I'll just flee to the mountains or the countryside" is just a foolish fantasy for most people.
They lack the skills to survive there, and the local contacts and knowledge to gain the support of the local residents. And haven't really thought through what's going to happen when they and every other person with the same idea decides to try to get there, and try to survive afterwards.
They'll just die - cold, hungry, thirsty, and suffering from disease.??? What makes you believe I've ever engaged in glamping? Have you read the general gist of my posts at all over the years, just curious? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 1:23pm
That's a lack of a plan, Rob. It's a fantasy. Some people may get lucky doing it. Most will die, terribly. Betting on luck isn't preparedness.
Better off to have a reality/data-based plan. Well ahead of time.Not everyone in a brutal survival situation has the luxury of pre-planning, bae, something which you don't seem to understand. This is why I say your assets are showing. Rob
I asked why and they said because the snow would cover the trail and we could get lost.
I've had that happen here, less than a mile from my home, while walking the dog in the forest on a nice sunny day. When suddenly the weather changed, and the snow dumped.
I rescued two people a couple years ago that were only 500 yards or so from their resort hotel. They'd gone out hiking, wearing cotton clothes, in the fall. They were unaware how fast it gets dark here in the forest, and didn't notice that they had no cell phone reception. They were suffering from moderate hypothermia by the time they were located, and I suspect one of them might not have lived through the night. Had they not lost the trail, or had they been in possession of basic skills and knowledge, they could have had a nice, warm, comfortable night. They did at least have fully-charged smart phones, so they could have filmed their last goodbyes if we didn't find them.
Not everyone in a brutal survival situation has the luxury of pre-planning, bae, something which you don't seem to understand. This is why I say your assets are showing. Rob
If your stated plan is "I'm a gonna flee to the mountains", it wouldn't seem to require a whole lot of effort to at least go to the library and read a couple books...
Most of the "assets" I developed for this particular scenario, oh-great-caller-out-of-assets, was when I was a boy, living in a trailer in the woods in hillbilly country, hunting small game and fishing to get food for the family, and checking my trapline.
I suppose the "asset", as I mentioned above, is skill and knowledge, and connectiveness-to-community.
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 1:26pm
When I first moved to the West coast I was surprised that every year people would die in the mountains hiking. Usually they got lost, cell phones don’t work and they find their bodies in the spring. I had a group of friends that I hiked with and one day it starts to snow in October and I think how cool is that. 2 of the group said we have to go down. I asked why and they said because the snow would cover the trail and we could get lost.Such happens every year at the Grand Canyon, too. Some suicides and some people simply getting lost and making mistakes. Interestingly enough given the 7000 ft altitude on the South Rim and the frigid temps, death seems to happen much more in the Summer, even when averaged out for seasonality. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 1:29pm
If your stated plan is "I'm a gonna flee to the mountains", it wouldn't seem to require a whole lot of effort to at least go to the library and read a couple books...
Most of the "assets" I developed for this particular scenario, oh-great-caller-out-of-assets, was when I was a boy, living in a trailer in the woods in hillbilly country, hunting small game and fishing to get food for the family, and checking my trapline.
I suppose the "asset", as I mentioned above, is skill and knowledge, and connectiveness-to-community.Bae, I'm nit saying there's anything wrong with reading up and acquiring skills....once again, my point is that not all entering a brutal survival situation have this luxury. Think of people being brutally stripped of their comfortable lives in WW2 and perhaps you will see my point? Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 1:29pm
Should be I'm not saying above
Teacher Terry
1-8-20, 1:40pm
The sierras are high so people die in the summer also. But in summer you are more likely to run into others that can lead you out or get help if you are hurt. My youngest son went hiking alone for 4 days to a lake. He injured himself the day he was leaving. A guy found him, fed him dinner and breakfast and hiked out quickly in the morning and sent help. They had to get him out with a helicopter.
Who are we fleeing in this scenario? Vengeful jihadis? The Phoenix PD? Some errant nuclear infernal machine? I would think knowing that might help me decide where to run. Or if running was the smart thing to do.
Who are we fleeing in this scenario?
Austrians bent on wiping out their Jewish neighbors?
iris lilies
1-8-20, 2:50pm
Austrians bent on wiping out their Jewish neighbors?
Ouch!
It’s all well and good to harbor romantic fantasies of fleeing to some unspecified haven that will take you in for unspecified reasons; but wouldn’t the prudent prospective refugee want to have that worked out some of the unspecified details in advance? I would think that would merit more thought than a packing list.
Who are we fleeing in this scenario? Vengeful jihadis? Good question! Realistically the only potential enemy with proximity to us is our own government and I have faith that the majority of its agents would refuse to do violence against us. I often think the OP lives in an alternate reality, perhaps one containing enemies closer at hand.
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 3:07pm
Austrians bent on wiping out their Jewish neighbors?That was a low blow, bae. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 3:08pm
Ouch!Kudos, IL. Credit granted for understanding that was a low blow. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 3:10pm
It does look like Trump is taking a sane and non-escalatory approach. Should this stance hold (?), then it's up to Iran not to escalate matters further. I trust Iran about as much as I trust Trump but I am hoping for the best. Time will tell. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 3:13pm
Austrians bent on wiping out their Jewish neighbors?For what it's worth, the family in Austria I have posted about over the years? Those family members I am in touch with are not anti-Semetic. I have dropped contact with the few that are. Rob
iris lilies
1-8-20, 3:30pm
Kudos, IL. Credit granted for understanding that was a low blow. Rob
Oh I think you can withdraw that credit, I dont need it really.
For what it's worth, the family in Austria I have posted about over the years? Those family members I am in touch with are not anti-Semetic. I have dropped contact with the few that are. Rob
It wouldn’t matter if every last family member was a raving cannibal Nazi as far as your guilt or innocence goes. You are no more responsible for the Holocaust than you are for the Trail of Tears or the Atlantic slave trade. Too many people today are too eager to assign us into categories for guilt or innocence assignment. There’s not that much distance between the Woke and Fascist way of thinking in that respect.
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 3:38pm
It wouldn’t matter if every last family member was a raving cannibal Nazi as far as your guilt or innocence goes. You are no more responsible for the Holocaust than you are for the Trail of Tears or the Atlantic slave trade. Too many people today are too eager to assign us into categories for guilt or innocence assignment. There’s not that much distance between the Woke and Fascist way of thinking in that respect.I have felt guilty regarding the Holocaust for years.....it doesn't help that I'm gay and could likely have joined the crowds on the trains. Due to the fact that supporting the Holocaust to some degree is to say my being murdered is acceptable for a trait I did not choose - I won't have dealings with family that is anti-Semetic. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
1-8-20, 3:41pm
Oh I think you can withdraw that credit, I dont need it really.Just trying to be neighborly, IL. There has been friction between us from time to time over the years. It was heartwarming to me to see your comment/understanding that bae had gone too far. I just wanted to say something nice/express gratitude is all.
Credit withdrawn if you wish. Rob
I have felt guilty regarding the Holocaust for years..... Rob
If your grandfather was a contract killer would you feel guilty about that?
I believe guilt is not inheritable. You need to do the hard work of sinning for yourself.
Teacher Terry
1-8-20, 5:01pm
You don’t inherit guilt. I only feel bad for what I do. Although I wouldn’t be friends with anyone I knew was racist.
If my family got land, housing, artwork or anything else seized from Holocaust victims I would feel guilty, even if I only inherited it and did not take it myself. There are others who feel this way too, which is why in another example antiquities are being returned to the countries of origin from which they were looted.
This reasoning gets tricky when instead of inheriting art, we inherit land taken from native Americans about 200 years ago. That’s my personal moral dilemma.
Teacher Terry
1-8-20, 10:40pm
Y, I would return items to. Tammy, that’s really sad I agree.
Pretty much every bit of desirable land has been taken by one group from another at some point. We speak of the injustice of Europeans toward Native Americans, but a lot of those dispossessed tribes weren't the original owners either. They got there by pushing somebody else out.
I think it's somewhat futile to try remediating history. There's always going to be somebody with a prior claim. I personally don't see any point in feeling guilty about it.
Pretty much every bit of desirable land has been taken by one group from another at some point. We speak of the injustice of Europeans toward Native Americans, but a lot of those dispossessed tribes weren't the original owners either. They got there by pushing somebody else out.
I think it's somewhat futile to try remediating history. There's always going to be somebody with a prior claim. I personally don't see any point in feeling guilty about it.
Although I think there's a difference between feeling guilty about land/property that was taken hundreds of years ago and land that was taken within the lifetime of people still alive today I don't think that mitigates the fact that the right thing to do is to acknowledge past wrongs and try to make them right in some way. "I've got mine, even if it was by theft and murder, so eff all y'all who weren't so lucky to have shitty ancestors" is not an attractive look for anyone.
Go back far enough, and every bloodline has some victim and victimizer in it. You can select a few to feel bad about while ignoring others on some arbitrary basis of your own choosing, or you can simply accept history for what it is. The practical impact will be the same.
So, either the intent was to make a nonlethal face-saving gesture, or it was a very poorly executed strike.
My take: buildings were hit head on from a distance. I think the message was twofold. To the Iranian people, a face saving attack that did some damage. To the US, "observe, we have the ability to hit what we want, nail on the head. next time it won't be an unmanned building."
And then they followed up by accidentally shooting down a civilian airliner.
And then they followed up by accidentally shooting down a civilian airliner.sigh, yeah. it surely was follow-up, was it accidental?
Teacher Terry
1-10-20, 2:48pm
I would guess it was as half of the plane was filled with their own people.
ToomuchStuff
1-11-20, 6:26pm
You don’t inherit guilt. I only feel bad for what I do. Although I wouldn’t be friends with anyone I knew was racist.While you don't inherit guilt (not biological), it can be driven into you by others, through long term abuse, mind control, etc.
I wonder about your racist quote. I have a Japanese friend, who is racist about Chinese people and that seems to be common, and not really considered "racism" unless you actually listen to them.
But I also grew up with WWII vets, that were racist to all those "gooks", a grandfather that was racist towards his black grandkids, yet fine with his asian nieces, etc.
I learned sometimes you have to understand WHY people are racist.
I would guess it was as half of the plane was filled with their own people.
Wondering if the person that hit the button, had a mother in law on the plane. (dark humor)
And now we know that the supposed attacks on embassies were so urgent that trump authorized the assassination seven months ago. Yet another blatant lie from this administration. Sadly, approximately zero people are likely to be surprised by this.
We live in the age of the drone strike. I understand Obama authorized nearly six hundred. This guy was operating in the field against Americans. I wonder if the same level of outrage would exist if it wasn’t Trump doing the authorizing.
We live in the age of the drone strike. I understand Obama authorized nearly six hundred. This guy was operating in the field against Americans. I wonder if the same level of outrage would exist if it wasn’t Trump doing the authorizing.
Who could forget "We came, we saw, he died"? ........ Apparently everyone.
Teacher Terry
1-13-20, 1:23pm
The reason previous administrations didn’t take him out is because his group was fighting against ISIS and he had control of them. No one is saying he was a good guy.
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