View Full Version : Ethical clothing- is it possible?
This unique article https://www.iwmf.org/reporting/ethical-fashion-these-women-offer-a-new-pattern/ shows how it is possible to create clothing in NA. Young people are thinking differently and acting, How can we encourage more of these initiatives?
Quotes:
"The fast-fashion industry, she argues, exploits poor and immigrant women to make cheap clothing meant to be worn a few times and discarded. In that, she is part of a growing movement that criticizes the industry’s frequently abusive working conditions and environmental degradation. Textile production creates more greenhouse gases than all international flights and maritime shipping combined, and emissions are projected to increase by 60% in the next decade, according to the United Nations Climate Change initiative....
Ms. Katebi isn’t producing her own designs. But cooperative members gather now to sew clothing for Chicago and international labels including Almvghty Clothing and Milk Private Label. Ms. Katebi is in the process of bringing two more members into the cooperative, fundraising to buy her own commercial building, and offering free sewing classes in the hope of finding more co-op members to serve a waiting list of designers. She also has a contract pending with a major department store.
Instead of a sweatshop, Ms. Katebi aims to envelop skilled women – who have lived through war, loss, and abuse – in a safe place. “There is a lot of trauma in that space,” she says."
What does "ethical" mean in this context?
Does it include the environmental impact of the materials used, and of the distribution network, and so on?
In reading the article, I believe the reporter is presenting a story about locally produced clothing without extensive transport costs from overseas, abuse of labour, but creating local jobs for capable women who have seen great tragedies in their lives. What did you get from reading the article?
What did you get from reading the article?
I liked the labor-justice angle a lot. I'm still concerned about materials sourcing, and our society's need to produce and consume so many transient items at great ecological cost. The way our whole economy is set up though, it is difficult for the end-consumer to understand what the cost of items really is, and make overall-ethical choices.
VERY hard IMO. If I were to define it as: locally sourced, natural product, fair wage. That doesn't exist anywhere near me in the rural West.
Land's End says Made in the USA but in fact have lost lawsuits because some of their goods are made in China.
I found this online in NJ: https://www.suuchi.com/enterprise-brands/
This in MA: https://www.goodclothingcompany.com/manufacturing
https://zegaapparel.com/
I think finding truly sourced and manufactured 100% in the USA requires a ton of research.
That said, I have a friend who obtains locally sourced wool, spins it and then knits her own products. I would say that fits the intended "ethical model". We work with a surgeon who is raising Alpaca Llamas to teach his kids animal husbandry and responsibility. Their wool is to die for!
I believe the reality is: buy quality items and use them until they are embarrassingly warn out or if they are in good condition and too small/big, take to a thrift store so they get a 2nd chance. (Plenty of people would be appalled at the clothing hubby and I wear in the house and in the garden. Heck, I have backyard only clothes:~))
It makes me sad/mad that I can spend as much as $300 knitting a wool sweater but only $80 to buy one? That is sooooo wrong. 20+ years ago I bought a wool sweater for $200. It is handmade and it is beautiful. I've been asked many times if I made it myself. It shows no signs of wear and will far outlive me. It does however make me sad that the person who spent their weeks making it, likely got pennies a day.
I would love to hear real options for ethical clothing!
I'm wearing a wool cardigan I paid five dollars for some years ago at a thrift. Another somewhat ethical fashion choice.
I was somewhat taken aback by "She jets around the world to meet with garment workers and union leaders fighting what they see as exploitative practices by companies including H&M and Nike." We have Skype and FaceTime now.
I was somewhat taken aback by "She jets around the world to meet with garment workers and union leaders fighting what they see as exploitative practices by companies including H&M and Nike." We have Skype and FaceTime now.
To echo bae's question, what does "ethical" mean and how far does it go? Are the electronics they would use for Skype and FaceTime from "ethical" companies? Purchased from "ethical" vendors? Are the electronics powered by "ethical" sources of energy?
I'm not suggesting that the word "ethical" is meaningless. It simply requires context. And it seems it's always possible to extend it far enough to get to "unethical" or at least "like everybody else". It's why I chose to never invest in mutual funds of "ethical" companies. Is it more ethical to invest only in those companies (however the term is defined by the financial institution) and accept the likely-substandard gains -- or invest in an index fund and make enough "additional" money to donate to businesses like Katebi's? There's no answer for that. But that's in part because there's no common definition for the term.
ApatheticNoMore
1-9-20, 3:43pm
The ethical mutual funds are basically scams, they define it extremely narrowly. Investing is in most case amoral at best (the exceptions are not most cases).
I did recently buy some very expensive underwear all made in the U.S.A. including the fabric. So ethical sure, but does it need to cost that much? I don't really think so, I think they were pricing to a niche market who likes expensive novelties. Sometimes that's me! I'm not posting that to the frugal forum. And sure, I need underwear per se, not going commando, and they are fine underwear, just overpriced is all, but ethical sure. But the price would need to come down to make made in the U.S.A. not even competitive but at all a reasonable option. So those are the kinds of issues this type of stuff is going to face.
To echo bae's question, what does "ethical" mean and how far does it go? Are the electronics they would use for Skype and FaceTime from "ethical" companies? Purchased from "ethical" vendors? Are the electronics powered by "ethical" sources of energy?
I'm not suggesting that the word "ethical" is meaningless. It simply requires context. And it seems it's always possible to extend it far enough to get to "unethical" or at least "like everybody else". It's why I chose to never invest in mutual funds of "ethical" companies. Is it more ethical to invest only in those companies (however the term is defined by the financial institution) and accept the likely-substandard gains -- or invest in an index fund and make enough "additional" money to donate to businesses like Katebi's? There's no answer for that. But that's in part because there's no common definition for the term.
I agree "ethical" can be subjective, but as the article commented on wasteful practices in the clothing industry, I thought it was appropriate to remark on the wastefulness of traveling when teleconferencing would do.
I agree "ethical" can be subjective, but as the article commented on wasteful practices in the clothing industry, I thought it was appropriate to remark on the wastefulness of traveling when teleconferencing would do.
Entirely appropriate; no issue with the statement. I'll note, however, that teleconferencing has existed for decades now and still is not the first thought for business people who want to meet. I think people are just too social. Takes a special breed of us to communicate effectively for years without ever having met any of the participants in person. ;) Just wondering where "ethical" goes in this particular instance.
I need underwear per se, not going commando, .
Why? Seriously, why? I own underwear only to go try on clothes on the rare occasion I need pants/shorts. I find them annoying.....oh, and I haven't had a yeast infection since I stopped wearing them. Got this advice from my Doctor!!!! She is right!
Entirely appropriate; no issue with the statement. I'll note, however, that teleconferencing has existed for decades now and still is not the first thought for business people who want to meet. I think people are just too social. Takes a special breed of us to communicate effectively for years without ever having met any of the participants in person. ;) Just wondering where "ethical" goes in this particular instance.
As an airline-phobic introvert, I'd lean toward on-line chat. Out of town business was always a non-starter with me. Fortunately, I wasn't called on to do much of it.
. I'm still concerned about materials sourcing, and our society's need to produce and consume so many transient items at great ecological cost. The way our whole economy is set up though, it is difficult for the end-consumer to understand what the cost of items really is, and make overall-ethical choices. I'm a real simpleton about this. If someone else has already "commissioned" and purchased and discarded an item, the damage is done, and the re-purchase of this item can only be seen as an environmental improvement. I love being old and weird. I just decided to convert my $6 bearpaw shearling boots into legwarmers, as the soles have disintegrated beyond repair. Coupled with my $5 shearling slippers ... well ... :D. I have the warmest ankles in town, Thank You, Savers.
I do understand. In our culture, selecting from other people's discards is definitely seen as second rate. People who (IMO) aren't being particularly analytical echo a corporate message: "discarded" items are dirty and dangerous. We definitely DO need a better system for those who want their choice of lovely new shiny objects, but also more acceptance of weirdos like me. (And no, I wear a perfectly acceptable pair of Clark's when in public, I'm just eccentric, not outright outrageous. Maybe next year.)
"discarded" items are dirty and dangerous. We definitely DO need a better system for those who want their choice of lovely new shiny objects, but also more acceptance of weirdos like me.
I have a ton (well, not a literal ton, but dozens of pounds) of items in our home that were purchased at thrift stores or garage sales. Clothing, furniture, artwork, electronics, floor fan, salad spinner (!), food serving pieces, ... But I've seen stained clothing and textiles, coffeemakers that still had grounds in them, dusty pots and pans, grimy household items, and so on. I'd be up for a place that sold used items which were cleaned up -- upholstered furniture treated for bedbugs, coffeemaker carafes that at least have had the water spots toweled off -- and I'd pay more for that service. I don't think it would even matter that the price of the clean used item approached that of new because, for so many items today, you cannot buy equivalent quality at that price. But I don't suspect there are enough of us out there to make that kind of store more than a once-in-a-blue-moon thing.
Some of the stuff (and condition of said stuff) at the thrift store is a bit appalling. When we bought the house, I was all gung-ho about buying used things to furnish it with. First disappointment: the coffee maker I bought for $12 at Savers. It barely worked, so now I know why it was donated. Had to buy a new one at Kohl's. With rebate coupon it cost about $12. Total investment for at home coffee was $24. I've been keeping an eye out for a small bulletin board. The one's Savers have had were $6.99 for a very obviously worn, torn pretty yukky-looking bulletin boards. In my mind they should have been priced at maybe $2.99. I finally gave up and bought a new one at Target yesterday for $8.99 that I can put my own holes in it with push pins. I was looking for one small curtain panel and came across a badly sun-bleached and stained larger curtain panel that was marked $6.99! It should never have been on the floor for sale, even at at thrift store, in my opinion.
With clothing, however, I have found very good deals, made better by shopping on Tuesdays for the 30% senior discount. But I still have a really good internal radar on how much I am willing to spend on a specific item. Some I will buy if it is marked $3.99 but if the same thing was marked $5.99 instead, and if I didn't really need it or want it I will put it back. I have myself trained pretty well at this point!
ApatheticNoMore
1-10-20, 12:57pm
Well maybe much of the best stuff is grabbed up quickly to sell on eBay and the like. And yes sure one could THEN buy it on eBay etc., but there goes the convenience of getting it locally (not to mention the deal maybe).
Not cool to donate not working things. Maybe it's like recycling though, people seem to recycle based on wishful thinking, well I wish this could be recycled, I don't like to think of it going to the landfill. Yea sure, and people recycling stuff that's not actually recyclable is just making the recycling system which is already questionable even more dysfunctional than it already is. Deal with it, what's done is done, junk just needs to go to trash ...
There are so many thrift stores in Tucson, I don't think anyone can afford to offer disgusting merchandise. I am a fan of Savers / Value Village. Of course you always have to take a closer look when things are second hand, but their items are pretty much always clean, and I think they discard the worst of the donations immediately. I do agree with ApatheticNM, it's hard to throw things in the trash but someone has to do it eventually, it's just not appropriate to toss it in a donate or recycle bin and "hope for the best". There is one store in town that has some real junk but that can be useful on occasion. When I donate there, I always attach a note to anything that's not in ideal condition.
Teacher Terry
1-10-20, 2:50pm
We have many thrift stores and I never see dirty items or junk.
The Savers in Santa Fe lets some pretty questionable looking stuff out onto the sales floor; I always look very carefully at clothing to make sure there are no rips or stains. With housewares, they seem to have a lower standard. However, I have found good stuff at reasonable prices but it helps to know what things are priced new and decide if the used one for $2 less is actually worth it. Most items that end up there are from lower-end big box stores anyway; the good brands end up in the higher-end consignment shops which have in my opinion, pretty over-rated prices as well. It seems that in my area there is no middle ground in the thrifting market compared to when I lived in Michigan.
It seems that in my area there is no middle ground in the thrifting market compared to when I lived in Michigan. Weird how different it can be. I tried picking up what I thought was a no-brainer item, a pair of jeans, near my Mom. Every place I could find looked like all the clothes came out of grandma's attic, and not in a good way. Wrinkled, mothball smelling, or worn threadbare, and strange out of fashion things like jeans with pleats at the waist. I can understand why some people turn their noses up at the concept of thrift stores if that's what's available.
I can understand why some people turn their noses up at the concept of thrift stores if that's what's available.
My very fashionable 23 year old daughter gets almost all of her wardrobe from thrift shops, but she has some supernatural gift for finding amazing treasures.
iris lilies
1-11-20, 2:46pm
I am both a shopper at and a donator to thrift stores. I have to watch to make sure clothing is not stained because they do put stained items out on the sales floor.
I need a new crockpot and I will definitely get it from a thrift store. My need is not immediateSo I will watch out for the right deal. I missed one a few weeks ago, I didnt buy it because I wasn’t sure it was big enough.I went in the next day and it was gone.
I'm willing to examine closely for permanent stains and other damage like a broken zipper or missing button, for $4.99 I don't expect stores to be that thorough. I guess my expectation is that someone made a small effort to make the item appealing - i.e. it is washed, not wrinkled beyond reckoning, and it doesn't smell bad. If I think it came out of the laundry hamper, and a store is willing to sell it that way, that's gross.
IL, beyond clothes my favorite items are those that may have been bought as a novelty and are apparently nearly new. You know someone got a crock pot or a yogurt maker for Christmas one year and it's been in the closet since 1982, or made one attempt at sous vide with a $200 gadget and said "not for me". I found a brand new donut pan for $1 and DH has made at least 20 batches of baked keto donuts to both our delight. To each his own!
What I've found rarely works out well are items that 'everyone' uses. A stick blender likely doesn't work well, a coffee machine has six years of scale inside it, a space heater rattles like thunder, an electric blanket warms by 2 degrees and shuts off.
One of my questions when thrifting is "why". If I can come up with a good reason someone would give this away - changing taste, bad fit, useless gift, I'm more likely to consider it. If the answer is probably "wore it out", not so much.
- and yes, I would definitely thrift a crockpot. The old ones just last forever, and with the new Insta Pot craze, I'm sure there are some to be found at a great bargain.
"In the old days" we made our clothes. Of course, we still had to buy the fabric. Who knew where that came from? Who knew how socially conscious McCall's and Simplicity patterns were? I loved making my own clothes--it was such a creative endeavor. My heart would race when I had the pattern in my hand and was faced with hundreds of bolts of material. That was when the most popular girl in class (Ann Marie G.) could compliment a nobody like me on having a really cool outfit. And no one else could get it.
But, if we make our own clothes, somebody else does not have that means of employment.
I do support companies like Patagonia for its socially conscious efforts. And I'm happy to support others. But I really don't buy a lot of clothes. I've actually been criticized and made fun of for that.
Teacher Terry
1-13-20, 4:32pm
Kib, thrift stores do not wash clothes. They just hang them up. I know that because we used to place our clients there.
TT, I think Savers either does wash them, or discards the things that come in unwashed or donates them to a shelter. I almost never come across anything that's repulsive, although it might not be in good enough condition to buy.
Teacher Terry
1-13-20, 4:47pm
I always take clean clothes to them. They probably throw away dirty clothes.
rosarugosa
1-13-20, 6:28pm
Our local Savers and SA don't wash clothes because you can see where the stuff comes in and then you see them bringing things out to the floor. In fact, once we were donating a table to Savers and we had unscrewed the legs for transport. They wouldn't take it unless we attached the legs (which we did) saying they didn't have the resources to repair or assemble items. And then there is that thrift store smell! I imagine they throw anything that is utterly disgusting.
I actually marvel at the opposite: the spotless white tee shirt that has obviously been laundered to perfection many many times. No spots, no underarm stains, no stretching. Beaten into submission and soft as a cotton ball. I want to meet the person who owns this, who I imagine to be something like a smooth stick with the bark peeled off, or perhaps an egg - barely nubbled and completely sweat-less, not to mention graceful as a cat while eating.
happystuff
1-14-20, 7:56am
I don't buy clothing often at all, but any I get from the thrift store come home and directly into the washer, regardless of how it looks.
iris lilies
1-14-20, 8:28pm
Weird how different it can be. I tried picking up what I thought was a no-brainer item, a pair of jeans, near my Mom. Every place I could find looked like all the clothes came out of grandma's attic, and not in a good way. Wrinkled, mothball smelling, or worn threadbare, and strange out of fashion things like jeans with pleats at the waist. I can understand why some people turn their noses up at the concept of thrift stores if that's what's available.
pleated, high waisted mom jeans are fashionable again. Hard to believe.
I had a friend who lived in a near by college town. In the not too distant past we would dive dumpsters at the semester's end move outs. We got some pretty decent clothing and assumed some of came from wealthy kids who could afford out of state tuition, but would travel light when returning home. I still have a few things from those days. Anymore I just try to buy quality cotton based clothing and wear it out. I get a couple of years or more out of a pair of Levis and it's not too hard to find men's shirts made with organic cotton. I could do better but it's the way it is.
pleated, high waisted mom jeans are fashionable again. Hard to believe.
I was thinking those sounded pretty cool. I've never liked low-waisted anything...:~)
pleated, high waisted mom jeans are fashionable again... Mmm, because everyone likes to look pregnant even when they aren't. >8) Think I'll skip this one!
I was thinking those sounded pretty cool. I've never liked low-waisted anything...:~)I'm definitely past the low waisted jeans that give me permanent muffin top, plumber's butt and put the pockets underneath me when sitting - ooh, how sexy is that! - but my tummy already tends toward poochi-ness these days, I hardly need a foot of extra fabric to enhance that!
I'm definitely past the low waisted jeans that give me permanent muffin top, plumber's butt and put the pockets underneath me when sitting - ooh, how sexy is that! - but my tummy already tends toward poochi-ness these days, I hardly need a foot of extra fabric to enhance that!
You're probably right, but I generally wear long, loose-fitting tops anyway, so it's all moot. If I were built like a model, I'd like pleats even more.
You're probably right, but I generally wear long, loose-fitting tops anyway, so it's all moot. If I were built like a model, I'd like pleats even more.I'm at that point where a long loose top over leggings looks ok, but a long loose top over big pouffy pleats is going to make me look like I tucked a large sponge into my pants.
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