Mask update and local guidelines

[Tybee]

I just got an email from my quilt shop that they had been declared an essential industry and reopened so that people could buy material to make face masks.

The hospital here put out a call for facemasks and gave a sheet with directions on how to make them:

https://www.munsonhealthcare.org/media/file/Phoebe%20Face-Mask-Pattern.pdf

Obviously, your local hospital may have different requirements or needs, but ours is putting out the word that they want homemade masks.

Thanks!

[frugal-one]

Just went to see a "friend" who said she had N95 masks for me. Yeah right.... dust masks. WTH... I am tired of being disappointed in people. I traded her a few things. She definitely made out. Wish I was an introvert and would not continually be bummed out by people. At this age, you would think I would learn.

[kib]

I really don't get it about the masks. I've done plenty of woodworking and garden digging. A mask that's not airtight just means the dirty air goes in around the sides. In addition, I thought masks were supposed to be washed or destroyed after 4 hours. What exactly is the hospital going to do with all these not-at-all-sterile cloth masks, other than make people feel helpful? And why not just wear a long bandana tucked into your shirt rather than go to this elaborate process of sewing something equally "breathable"?

[mschrisgo2]

My cousins are making masks for their local hospital, that has also requested them. essentially, the homemade masks are covers for the N95, so hopefully 1 N95 will last a whole shift, then they will be all be thrown away.

[bae]

I am refusing to work without proper protective gear, sorry.

[Gardnr]

I just got an email from my quilt shop that they had been declared an essential industry and reopened so that people could buy material to make face masks.

The hospital here put out a call for facemasks and gave a sheet with directions on how to make them:

https://www.munsonhealthcare.org/media/file/Phoebe%20Face-Mask-Pattern.pdf

Obviously, your local hospital may have different requirements or needs, but ours is putting out the word that they want homemade masks.

Thanks!

Quilt shops don't have water repellent fabric. that is a requirement of this pattern. So this makes no sense!

[Gardnr]

I really don't get it about the masks. I've done plenty of woodworking and garden digging. A mask that's not airtight just means the dirty air goes in around the sides. In addition, I thought masks were supposed to be washed or destroyed after 4 hours. What exactly is the hospital going to do with all these not-at-all-sterile cloth masks, other than make people feel helpful? And why not just wear a long bandana tucked into your shirt rather than go to this elaborate process of sewing something equally "breathable"?

Education:
Face masks are never sterile. The only mask with a seal is a N95.

These cloth masks fit just like the standard level 1,2,3 masks. The fabric being used is a much tighter weave/thicker quality than a bandana. And much better than the cloth masks I wore in surgery at the beginning of my career!

YES! Every healthcare worker should have proper masks. These are a last ditch covering for the face because honestly, most healthcare providers are not going to walk out. Some providers are wearing cloth masks over their N95 to keep them from becoming soiled.

[Gardnr]

I am refusing to work without proper protective gear, sorry.

You have every right! I'm on an RN forum and they are very much struggling with this very issue.

[Tradd]

I've heard of nurses getting fired for refusing to work without proper PPE.

[Gardnr]

I've heard of nurses getting fired for refusing to work without proper PPE.

Yes. These are scary times. We are Nurses because above all, we want to care for patients and help them get well, or be there 100% to make them comfortable as they die. We are not good about putting ourselves first. Our employers know this.

I don't know what's going to happen. This is really just beginning in the USA. We have a very long way to go and no mandate from the Pres to manufacture.

Nike made the decision to manufacture face shields.

A company in southern Nevada is manufacturing masks.

These are voluntary contributions to the healthcare community. But I suppose Trump will take credit.

There are sooooo many companies that could be retooled and cranking out 10s of 1000s daily. But......

If I had to estimate how many masks I used in a normal day (like 11 hours), I'd say 20-25. There are (were) strict rules around how to use, when to use, when to remove, which to use for what process. All standards are OUT THE WINDOW! This is frustrating more than anything. No support from Admins in many locations.

[Tybee]

Got it, will not make any masks or post any more mask patterns.

[Tammy]

I’m a manager giving all the support I can muster, having worked 12-14 hours a day for the last 10 in a row, with 3 more to go before a day off. - salaried, so no overtime. Plus I’ve been on call 24/7 for the last 5 days with 2 more to go of that.

I beg to differ.

I am in the front lines and I have awesome support from all of those above me and I give awesome support to all of those reporting to me.

Be careful generalizing about those things with which you do not have familiarity.

What we have here is a situation that none of us have seen in our lifetimes, as the most recent similar situation was in 1918. For any decisions that we make, we have at least six considerations, often at odds with one another, and we do the best we can with the resources and the knowledge that we have at the moment. This is a highly fluid situation, and directives often change daily and hourly based on the newest science, balanced with using the limited resources at out disposal in the best way we can.

This is not at all unlike the front lines of a war. What would you think if soldiers refused to fight because they didn’t have guarantees of safety? It never entered my mind to not go to work and do my best, even though the risk is great. Even though we’re stretching all kinds of rules and using personal protective equipment longer than is generally recommended, I would never think that walking out is the answer. what else can we do? If we all just refuse to work because it’s not perfect, then all hell breaks loose and there is no society.

Please don’t judge that which you do not know.

[dado potato]

If I had to estimate how many masks I used in a normal day (like 11 hours), I'd say 20-25.

I heard second-hand that an ER nurse in a "major" hospital currently is expected to work with one mask per day.

I could MacGyver a couple dozen masks with dissembled Swiffer cloths, colorful cotton print fabric, adhesive tape, and pipe cleaners. But I gather from what Gardnr said, 24 masks would last just one day in the ER. At best, these would be amateur masks; maybe not adequate. So I will not act on the impulse to set up the sewing machine this time.

For what it is worth, I can remember the Song of Julian:
… Ring out, bells of Norwich,
And let the winter come and go.
All shall be well again, I know.
Love, like the yellow daffodil
Is coming through the snow.

[happystuff]

It never entered my mind to not go to work and do my best, even though the risk is great. Even though we’re stretching all kinds of rules and using personal protective equipment longer than is generally recommended, I would never think that walking out is the answer. what else can we do?

Thank you!

[JaneV2.0]

Vacuum cleaner bag material has been reported to be 95% effective against virus particles. It defies logic that someone can't come up with home-crafted masks health professionals can use until Trump quits spouting pro-corporate nonsense ("We're not a supply clerk."[sic]) and authorizes the Defense Production Act.

[bae]

I beg to differ.
...

Be careful generalizing about those things with which you do not have familiarity.

...

This is not at all unlike the front lines of a war. What would you think if soldiers refused to fight because they didn’t have guarantees of safety? It never entered my mind to not go to work and do my best, even though the risk is great.

...

Please don’t judge that which you do not know.

Indeed.

I would not ask a firefighter to run into a burning building wearing street clothes, then say "this is like war, suck it up" if he pointed out that it was unsafe, unlikely to produce a positive result, would likely require *more* expenditure of resources to rescue him when he goes down, and would take a limited and expensive resource (the firefighter) out of commission.

Instead, I would follow our rules and training, which are written in blood.

I'm on the front lines too, both as a medical responder, and as someone working in our local emergency operations center doing epidemiological and logistics modeling. I'm also, as the safety officer for our infectious disease response team, trained and equipped and practiced in dealing with Ebola patients and other such troublesome cases.

I think it is downright foolish to risk your medical staff in an event of this sort by asking that they heroically do the job without the tools needed. When those medical personnel go down, so does your health care system, and then things get really really bad, really really quickly. And then other people, who need not have died, die.

You have to take a step back, look at the overall systems picture, and start doing triage.

Question: do you do CPR now on COVID-19 patients? We have been instructed not to, which is a hard thing to swallow, even though the math is pretty compelling.

[Teacher Terry]

Volunteers are certainly not going to work without the right equipment. Italy didn’t resuscitate virus patients.

[JaneV2.0]

Indeed.

I would not ask a firefighter to run into a burning building wearing street clothes, then say "this is like war, suck it up" if he pointed out that it was unsafe, unlikely to produce a positive result, would likely require *more* expenditure of resources to rescue him when he goes down, and would take a limited and expensive resource (the firefighter) out of commission.

Instead, I would follow our rules and training, which are written in blood.

I'm on the front lines too, both as a medical responder, and as someone working in our local emergency operations center doing epidemiological and logistics modeling. I'm also, as the safety officer for our infectious disease response team, trained and equipped and practiced in dealing with Ebola patients and other such troublesome cases.

I think it is downright foolish to risk your medical staff in an event of this sort by asking that they heroically do the job without the tools needed. When those medical personnel go down, so does your health care system, and then things get really really bad, really really quickly. And then other people, who need not have died, die.

You have to take a step back, look at the overall systems picture, and start doing triage.

Question: do you do CPR now on COVID-19 patients? We have been instructed not to, which is a hard thing to swallow, even though the math is pretty compelling.

Since CPR has switched to compression-only, why isn't there equipment for that?

[bae]

Since CPR has switched to compression-only, why isn't there equipment for that?

High performance CPR done by trained people is not compression-only.

https://www.resuscitationacademy.org/

There *is* CPR-performing equipment, it's pretty cool, not in common use yet, and not all that handy in the field. I guess the more useful question to ask might be - why don't we have masks and gloves and such? A country that can't manage that isn't going to manage widespread fielding of the CPR robots...

[Gardnr]

Got it, will not make any masks or post any more mask patterns.

I'm so very sorry. I didn't intend to discourage you. I simply noticed their fabric requirement-I have no idea where that is even sold. Never heard of water repellant fabric other than Goretex as in surgical gowns and I've never seen it for sale.

I get mask requests multiple times per day. I am making them as quick as I can. Got a request today from a 10yo who wants to protect pregnant Mama. Darn right she moved right to the top of my list!

[bae]

I am getting a nice fabric cover sewn up by a neighbor to *protect* the N95 mask when using it in circumstances that might damage it, to reduce the number I need to use.

[flowerseverywhere]

My quilt group is working with local health facilities to make large mask covers with ties at their request to cover n95 masks. We have several patterns they have requested. We delivered 25 (left a large plastic bag outside the facility that someone picked up with gloves and put directly into hot water wash) several days ago and are planning on sending 40 tomorrow.
At one local nursing home for instance, they are being used by support personnel that don’t have direct patient contact to prevent them from touching their faces.

Now some of our members children who are nurses nurses have requested them once they saw what we were making. Incidentally, one requested we do bright on the outside, dark on the inside so they could tell which way was out. If they had to take the cover off they could easily see which side was previously out.

Unfortunately many people are very very critical of this effort and a huge debate is raging in the online quilting community, but the reality is in many situations covering the mask will allow it to be used longer. We are only making them on request to meet the exact need of the requesting facility.

[Tybee]

My quilt group is working with local health facilities to make large mask covers with ties at their request to cover n95 masks. We have several patterns they have requested. We delivered 25 (left a large plastic bag outside the facility that someone picked up with gloves and put directly into hot water wash) several days ago and are planning on sending 40 tomorrow.
At one local nursing home for instance, they are being used by support personnel that don’t have direct patient contact to prevent them from touching their faces.

Now some of our members children who are nurses nurses have requested them once they saw what we were making. Incidentally, one requested we do bright on the outside, dark on the inside so they could tell which way was out. If they had to take the cover off they could easily see which side was previously out.

Unfortunately many people are very very critical of this effort and a huge debate is raging in the online quilting community, but the reality is in many situations covering the mask will allow it to be used longer. We are only making them on request to meet the exact need of the requesting facility.

This makes sense, especially the bright on outside, dark on inside--that is really smart.

[Tammy]

My hospital is now using an auditorium as a mask sewing instruction area. I’m not sure what our intended use will be for these masks. I’m too busy to see anything but the headlines outside of my department.

[JaneV2.0]

An ER doctor provides mask instructions:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W6d3twpHwis&fbclid=IwAR1AXzC6Sdxxn9Ymf-jMw-GwT8cgFUqdHeSfOZ3LDwo0y5xtkxiCZRJ9_oo

Note that he recommends vacuum filter material.

[JaneV2.0]

Elastic is hard to find, but some genius disemboweled a bungee cord, and voila'.

3143

[Tradd]

A friend of mine is a NICU nurse. Her hospital has apparently requested the fabric masks as covers for the N95 masks.