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Just a Sunday morning mental meandering. May be a more interesting question in these times. What does security mean to you? What makes you feel secure? What threatens your sense of security? How important is it to you? Do you have a big "security gland" (to use Dave Ramsey's terminology)? Think broadly.
Security for me is two different things: 1) autonomy/physical security and 2) freedom from "want".
Physical security is a big deal for me. I'm small and not very strong. I'm super conscious/paranoid about being out in crowded areas or being alone in an unfamiliar area. I get anxious where other people would think no big deal.
The second part of the security is keeping my wants less than my means, so that I always have a cushion. This is not just money of course, but also time. I keep time cushions so that there are spaces to think rather than just react to circumstances. I feel adequately secure for most situations for example I don't have to panic if I get a flat tire or there is a minor house mishap. So I don't have anxiety surrounding these kinds of items. Which is good, because there is enough anxiety with current events.
Adding to Herbgeek with which I agree, I would include the freedom to pray, think and speak as my conscience dictates. Security is often thought of as a 'gated' concept while I see see it as a freedom for myself and others.
You do come up with wonderful threads, Cath.
iris lilies
4-26-20, 10:15am
Security protection by Jax, Inc.
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Jax off duty:
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catherine
4-26-20, 10:27am
Adding to Herbgeek with which I agree, I would include the freedom to pray, think and speak as my conscience dictates. Security is often thought of as a 'gated' concept while I see see it as a freedom for myself and others.
You do come up with wonderful threads, Cath.
I'm a market researcher, razz.. I'm trained to ask questions! :)
Thank you. I like your thought about "gated" vs "open" security. I have thoughts on that as well, but need to congeal them.
Teacher Terry
4-26-20, 1:10pm
Money and safety. When we had our 80 lb husky/shepherd mix I felt very safe. Now he’s gone and the security system doesn’t make me feel nearly as safe. My asthma and allergies are too bad to get another big dog. Of course with the virus I have a fair amount of anxiety.
Pretty secure here. Money is not a worry. We live in a very safe neighborhood, but I’m armed if anyone decided to come in when I’m home,and I’m insured if I was gone.
our biggest annoyance is hurricanes, and we leave if they are forecasted to come our way.
ApatheticNoMore
4-26-20, 2:40pm
Is there a right answer? I mean I think obviously some of it depends on objective circumstances. Duh of course.
But that which doesn't probably depends mostly on early life experience (although it's probably not straightforward, one can learn an indifference to violence by growing up with a ton of it, as much as they can a fear). So it kinda "is what it is". So I fear some things and not others and that's not that much rhyme or reason to it.
Simplemind
4-26-20, 9:06pm
I feel secure when I know I can take care of myself financially, emotionally and physically. I'm thankful that we paid off the house before we retired. I'm thankful that we live well within our means with my pension and our SS. I'm thankful for so much to keep us busy at home and for grocery delivery so we aren't bored, hungry or threatening to kill each other.
I'm not concerned.
Finanacially, I've saved what I've saved. I have double what I need it just means less travel or economy if it takes a dump.
If I get sick and die, so be it. I am not consumed with death. Dad died when I was just 33......I live each day as if it were my last and have for 25 years already.
Teacher Terry
4-27-20, 2:53am
I feel very off kilter. I really miss our social life. But the few times I have went into a store with mask and gloves I literally feel like I am risking my life and that’s only to grab something like a prescription. Plus I am furious if people aren’t 6 ft away. My husband on the other hand has no problem doing the shopping. Once things open up my husband won’t stay home and no point in me doing so. But I wonder if my anxiety will allow it.
flowerseverywhere
4-27-20, 4:01am
Pretty secure here. Money is not a worry. We live in a very safe neighborhood, but I’m armed if anyone decided to come in when I’m home,and I’m insured if I was gone.
our biggest annoyance is hurricanes, and we leave if they are forecasted to come our way.
we approaching the start of Hurricane season. I’m curious where you would go if you needed to evacuate? Normally we’d go north to our kids house or close by but they are on strict lockdown orders and showing up with Florida plates would not make many people happy. Most campgrounds are closed except to year round residents. We already checked the closest ones to them as we normally go north for the summer.
In response to the original question, I feel secure in most ways. We live way below our means and have many skills like cooking, gardening, sewing, woodworking home repairs etc. with everybody home I feel much safer than in a neighborhood during normal times when people are out to work.
I feel secure when my job is going well, I am getting good performance reviews, and the company is profitable.
I feel safe when I have governmental leaders who are competent and peace-loving, not liable to start a war with Iran or something.
I feel emotionally safe when my son is on his meds, not in danger of harming himself, and we are getting along.
we approaching the start of Hurricane season. I’m curious where you would go if you needed to evacuate? Normally we’d go north to our kids house or close by but they are on strict lockdown orders and showing up with Florida plates would not make many people happy. Most campgrounds are closed except to year round residents. We already checked the closest ones to them as we normally go north for the summer.
In response to the original question, I feel secure in most ways. We live way below our means and have many skills like cooking, gardening, sewing, woodworking home repairs etc. with everybody home I feel much safer than in a neighborhood during normal times when people are out to work.
We could go to another part of the state. We live in SW Florida, we have friends in NW Florida. Or we could fly out.
I feel secure in my relationships, for sure. I trust them, and they a key foundation of my life
I have always felt moderately-very secure about my safety and my belongings. If I am alone at night (which is rare) I do double lock doors and make sure shades are pulled, but this is a very safe area from a crime perspective. However, if I were to be alone permanently, I would consider investing in iris lilies' security system :). I've never been interested in surveillance technology, or ADT or anything like that. And I'm very sloppy about locking things. I try to take the approach "they can steal the rug from the floor, cuz the things that I prize like the stars in the skies all are free.
I'm pretty secure about my health and my ability to act independently. Very secure about it today, but as I get older I start thinking more about the "what-if's?" What if I get sick now? How will that change my life? How might my independence be compromised? How might DH's health impact my life going forward?
I'm very secure about short-term finances. All my needs are met by my employment, and when I'm no longer working, I will have social security. and some small savings to live on. I know I can live comfortably (meaning all basics are met) on a reduced level of income and that will be fine for me.
But being that I don't know what the future will bring and I get sucked in by "rules" about what we need in life past a certain age, my security "soft spot" is the unknown about what will happen "out there" (meaning the uncontrollables like our current virus and financial waves like recessions) and what will happen in my own life and how much money I will have to address those needs--will it be enough?
Yet I actively try to address those anxieties whenever and wherever it pops up, because I do believe worrying about it is a grand waste of time. It was different when I had kids. Today, I KNOW I have everything I need, just like the lilies of the field and the birds of the air. I just have to remind myself of that now and then. :)
happystuff
4-27-20, 9:08am
Some days I am safe, secure, and untouchable! And other days are "dog pile on the rabbit!" (Bugs Bunny reference).
iris lilies
4-27-20, 9:24am
Well, living in Murder City as I domI shouldn’t feel “safe “but I do because I take reasonable precautions and I am not a young black man. Those are the people who get killed. As for safety of my stuff, well, I’m sure they want my stuff they just don’t want me dead.Its only stuff.
My street in HermanN is safe. It’s full of people who are home all day. My six immediate neighbors on either side and across the street either work from home or are retired, so many eyes on the street.
catherine’s “ secure in relationships” idea is sobering because I have only one relationship, that with DH. All of my other close ones have disappeared. So hmmm, that isnt good as I think about it. I have a wide expanse of Superficials relationships with people who share my passions, so those could morph into stronger bonds I suppose.
I feel very off kilter. I really miss our social life. But the few times I have went into a store with mask and gloves I literally feel like I am risking my life and that’s only to grab something like a prescription. Plus I am furious if people aren’t 6 ft away. My husband on the other hand has no problem doing the shopping. Once things open up my husband won’t stay home and no point in me doing so. But I wonder if my anxiety will allow it.
My pharmacy has a drive thru. Any like that in your area?
Teacher Terry
4-27-20, 5:22pm
Per my insurance I have to use Walmart. My husband has been getting the medications but his back was out so bad I had to pick up his muscle relaxers. We switched to 3 months on everything else.
I feel very off kilter. I really miss our social life. But the few times I have went into a store with mask and gloves I literally feel like I am risking my life and that’s only to grab something like a prescription. Plus I am furious if people aren’t 6 ft away. My husband on the other hand has no problem doing the shopping. Once things open up my husband won’t stay home and no point in me doing so. But I wonder if my anxiety will allow it.
Over these past several weeks I've often wondered the same thing. A week ago friday I was REALLY depressed that I couldn't go out to meet our friends for happy hour, like I've done every friday for much of my adult life. But like you, when I go to the grocery store I'm on a mission to get in, get what I need, pay for it without touching anything I don't absolutely have to, and then get the heck out of there. Will I really be able to go out and hang out non socially distanced anytime soon without feeling deeply stressed? I'm not sure.
When I was a teenager in the 80's, and figuring out that I was gay, AIDS was still a completely uncontrolled and not understood disease. At the time it was called GRID (gay related immune disorder) and all anyone knew at the time was the four H's of most at risk people (homosexuals, hemophiliacs, heroin users, and Haitians*.) Because of the uncertainty surrounding the disease, and my innate caution about life generally, I stayed in the closet a lot longer than I likely would have otherwise (literally many years), only finally braving the world of romance once it was commonly accepted that condoms could keep one reasonably safe. I deeply dread the thought that it may be an equal number of years before I feel safe going out in public again.
* It turned out that being Haitian didn't really have anything to do with it. Haiti just had the misfortune of being the first under-developed country where it started to spread among heterosexuals. Since then, of course, plenty of countries in Africa have been devastated by heterosexual spread of HIV.
ToomuchStuff
4-28-20, 12:46am
But like you, when I go to the grocery store I'm on a mission to get in, get what I need, pay for it without touching anything I don't absolutely have to, and then get the heck out of there.
So, what I have always called, "shopping". Very few stores, do I feel comfortable with loitering. (one damaged freight, can have any and everything type of store, that is pretty much it):+1:
As to what does security mean to me, well it is an illusionary emotion/belief. In the way people feel they know Christ/God/the flying spaghetti monster. That sense, provides a calming function, while helping one make more long term thoughts, then fear and paranoia do.
I've been abducted, hung around a serial killer, been at gunpoint five times, knife-point once, had both a car and house broken into, dealt with different criminals (murder/rape/thiefs, etc), had stuff stolen, been involved in an ugly lawsuit that nearly made me homeless ($500 an hour lawyers, were the inexpensive ones), and lived on $8k one year when I had to have a surgery and recover from it before being able to go back to work. I am on the low income side of things. Those I know, or are two degree's or less from me, on the opposite end, have their own security issues. Security is a state of mind, not an actual thing. Someone wants you, or your stuff, they can find a way.
Teacher Terry
4-28-20, 1:20am
Jp, I am so glad you understand. Even though my kids weren’t gay I felt bad that a STD could be a death sentence. Very scary times.
As to what does security mean to me, well it is an illusionary emotion/belief.
....
Security is a state of mind, not an actual thing.
Thank you. I agree completely.
One of my favorite quotes is from a Catholic mystic--Bernadette Roberts, who said: "until we can go beyond our notions regarding the true nature of life
we will never realize how totally secure we really are and how all the fighting for individual survival and self-security is a waste of energy."
You encountered all those threats and learned that your sense of security is not dependent on some kind of illusory fear. Very interesting and hopeful.
I agree that security is a state of mind.
I feel secure enough, especially financially--health, not so much, as I get older and the illusion of security/self reliance seems to slip away.
I worked for thirty years at a job I just endured because it paid reasonably well and promised a pension. Probably if I had it to do again, I would have chosen more carefully--I'd certainly have more options now, but I'm satisfied now that it's long behind me.
At a quilt symposium once, a concerned woman asked me where my security would come from, since I wasn't married. I answered "my job" back when that wasn't an unreasonable answer, and I hoped the marriage she depended upon was a solid one, since she seemed kind and genuinely worried for me. I'm disinclined to put my faith in someone else's good will for my survival.
catherine
4-28-20, 11:47am
At a quilt symposium once, a concerned woman asked me where my security would come from, since I wasn't married. I answered "my job" back when that wasn't an unreasonable answer, and I hoped the marriage she depended upon was a solid one, since she seemed kind and genuinely worried for me. I'm disinclined to put my faith in someone else's good will for my survival.
Thank God those days are over, when women had to find "a good man" with "good prospects" to ensure some kind of future for themselves.
ApatheticNoMore
4-28-20, 12:10pm
Thank God those days are over, when women had to find "a good man" with "good prospects" to ensure some kind of future for themselves.
It's still what many do, and probably the safest path (well to be real two incomes is probably the safest path, but men do out-earn women, have longer more stable careers at times, etc. - so it's probably better to bet on a man's career if one had to bet on a single earner, but two incomes is best). I wouldn't think a job provides much security, jobs come and go. My average time at a job is 3 years. I don't think I choose with "good prospects" and I imagine that provides a lot of mental space over just survival which seems a constant worry. But then we are employed for now, how many aren't? But there's always a lot of edge of economic fear. It's always always always something at the back of my partners mind. I settle much more naturally into a type of middle class calm as soon as I have a stable (as any) job that pays enough to live off, even though I've been unstably employed etc.. But then I was raised in a two parent family with a stable employed father with yes the pension and the same unionized employment all my life. He was raised by a single mother sometimes self and unsteadily employed, making it on a wing and a prayer. It's all childhood that which isn't the present.
Teacher Terry
4-28-20, 12:32pm
Yesterday after my chiropractor appointment I needed a few things from the grocery store for the lasagna I am making tonight. Usually I send one of the men. So I drove there and it’s not crowded so with mask and gloves I get what I need. People were being cautious and standing apart. Finally I didn’t feel like I was going to have a panic attack.
Simplemind
4-28-20, 11:45pm
Funny you say that Jane, I too stuck out a job for 26 years to get that golden ticket. I was divorced when I got it and I loved the first 10 years. I stuck it out when it turned bad because it payed well, had great benefits and I would have a pension. I counted the days. I was single until almost the end and expected I would always stay so. I was also a single mother with no child support so I already had the mindset that I could never count on anybody else to take care of me.
Barring disability, I think everyone should be able to support themselves--in a perfect world, anyway.
Two incomes would be nice, but they come with a price (she rhymes).
iris lilies
4-29-20, 10:09am
Barring disability, I think everyone should be able to support themselves--in a perfect world, anyway.
Two incomes would be nice, but they come with a price (she rhymes).
looking purely at marriage economically, it’s true that economic boost of a second income comes with a price.
But in America, DINKS who have health and continued employment can amass the wealth dreamed of by the immigrants who try to get into this country.
if I was single I would’ve been fine economically because throughout my career I was healthy and continuously employed. And quite frugal. But my net worth would’ve been a quarter of That of my household now because I would not have paid off my house until 20 or 30 years down the road. It was having paid off real estate that freed up money for investing. I know paying off your mortgage isn’t necessarily a strong financial move, but it worked for me.
... I know paying off your mortgage isn’t necessarily a strong financial move, but it worked for me.
I don't pay much attention to financial "experts"--I only know what works for me, so Chez Decay is fully paid off.
Psychologically, we have felt more secure when we had a paid off house, although I agree with Iris Lilies assessment about it not necessarily being a strong financial move. But like Jane, it has worked for us.
catherine
4-29-20, 11:21am
I really want this house to be paid off before I retire, and although doing that would wipe out most of my savings, I might take that risk--perhaps apply for a line of credit on it in case I have an emergency. Or work for an extra year to bolster savings.
The idea of being able to live off of Social Security would be dependent upon having a paid-off home. I want to save savings for emergencies only and not dip in.
I really want this house to be paid off before I retire, and although doing that would wipe out most of my savings, I might take that risk--perhaps apply for a line of credit on it in case I have an emergency. Or work for an extra year to bolster savings.
The idea of being able to live off of Social Security would be dependent upon having a paid-off home. I want to save savings for emergencies only and not dip in.
I am very curious about this too as this is where we are at, the juncture of figuring out what to do about mortgages in retirement, as we don't get pensions and if we have to live on ss, I don't think we can swing a mortgage.
Maybe this would be a good thread on its own--I wonder what folks think and have experienced with this. Is it better to wipe out savings and pay off house, or better to not take that risk?
I am really attracted to idea of creating a lifestyle where we could live off of only what we get in social security.
iris lilies
4-29-20, 1:14pm
My inner bag-lady’s black and white thinking screams “do NOT put your all of life’s money into real estate! Dont do it! Danger danger Will Robinson!”
that is not logical analysis, so there ya go. It is worth what you paid for it!
My inner bag-lady’s black and white thinking screams “do NOT put your all of life’s money into real estate! Dont do it! Danger danger Will Robinson!”
that is not logical analysis, so there ya go. It is worth what you paid for it!
yeah, I remember having exactly that reaction with your friend who was taking her IRA and emptying it out to buy the NH farmhouse.
So it's illogical that I am more secure with a paid off house than with the money in the IRA.
frugal-one
4-29-20, 1:27pm
I really want this house to be paid off before I retire, and although doing that would wipe out most of my savings, I might take that risk--perhaps apply for a line of credit on it in case I have an emergency. Or work for an extra year to bolster savings.
The idea of being able to live off of Social Security would be dependent upon having a paid-off home. I want to save savings for emergencies only and not dip in.
Reading that in a short while Social Security may be cut whereby you will only get 79% and medicare is only supposed to last another 6 years. That is what they are saying. If that turns out to be true, you would be better off having cash????
Reading that in a short while Social Security may be cut whereby you will only get 79% and medicare is only supposed to last another 6 years. That is what they are saying. If that turns out to be true, you would be better off having cash????
Maybe I'm either naive or stupid (probably both), but how could they cut people's Social Security or Medicare? Maybe if Trump and Trump-clones get elected, but otherwise, a lot of legislators would never support it. Many are leaning towards the progressive policies Bernie and others have been touting, and I think COVID has only reinforced the need for reasonable safety nets for the most vulnerable.
Even if they cut back SS and Medicare, I could only see them doing it for new entrants to the system and grandfathering those already in it.
iris lilies
4-29-20, 1:44pm
yeah, I remember having exactly that reaction with your friend who was taking her IRA and emptying it out to buy the NH farmhouse.
So it's illogical that I am more secure with a paid off house than with the money in the IRA.
I have TWO senior citizen friends who put out their money to take on more real estate than they need. Both have new mortgages, and we all know how much equity one builds in the first years of amortized payments. minuscule amounts. Both have always had the rejoinder “but mortgage interest can be deducted from taxes!”
With their now low income and especially with Trump tax changes doubling standard deductions, it is difficult for me to see how anyone can make this argument. Not saying they are, am just saying they both would have made the argument in the past.
But all of that said, it comes down to a general idea of living according to your means and needing greater flexibility in aging and smaller incomes.
Our real estate needs to be simple as our income decreases. I will try mightily to resist buying a condo in the city after we move our main residence to Hermann. Renting will be fine and no long term investment.Even cheap condos that I love ($55,000) come with long term obligations of ownership. In a down economy you cant jettison them, they are like time-shares. No thanks.
iris lilies
4-29-20, 1:50pm
Maybe I'm either naive or stupid (probably both), but how could they cut people's Social Security or Medicare? Maybe if Trump and Trump-clones get elected, but otherwise, a lot of legislators would never support it. Many are leaning towards the progressive policies Bernie and others have been touting, and I think COVID has only reinforced the need for reasonable safety nets for the most vulnerable.
Even if they cut back SS and Medicare, I could only see them doing it for new entrants to the system and grandfathering those already in it.
or COURSE they can.
The course of action you state is only the first logical step. Means testing is next.Then cut back for existing recipients.
Teacher Terry
4-29-20, 1:59pm
When we bought this house we paid cash and used most of our savings. Now that mortgage rates are 2.84 we pulled 100k out on a 30 year and the payment is 414/month. Most of our income is in pensions that are fairly secure. Due to WEP SS is so low it’s a joke. I don’t think they will reduce SS for people already collecting.
I have TWO senior citizen friends who put out their money to take on more real estate than they need. Both have new mortgages, and we all know how much equity one builds in the first years of amortized payments. minuscule amounts. Both have always had the rejoinder “but mortgage interest can be deducted from taxes!”
Thanks to Dave Ramsey, every mortgage I've taken out over the past 10 years has been a 15 year mortgage. It saves SO MUCH MONEY. I've tried to explain amortization schedules to my kids, but you know how it is--when you're young and have young families you want the lowest monthly payment possible, but if I had to live my life over again, I'd never get a 30 year loan.
So, my principle is going down fairly quickly already for my house in GI. But I don't want to be 80 by the time it's paid off.
iris lilies
4-29-20, 2:53pm
Thanks to Dave Ramsey, every mortgage I've taken out over the past 10 years has been a 15 year mortgage. It saves SO MUCH MONEY. I've tried to explain amortization schedules to my kids, but you know how it is--when you're young and have young families you want the lowest monthly payment possible, but if I had to live my life over again, I'd never get a 30 year loan.
So, my principle is going down fairly quickly already for my house in GI. But I don't want to be 80 by the time it's paid off.
That is a good point about 15 year mortgages.
i wonder if my senior citizen friends took out mortgages for that length of time. One of them was a reverse mortgage.
I think your kids are not the only folks who look only at the monthly payment amount....:~)
I remember years ago one of these friends talked to me about buying a house on a lake. She said “it’s only $718 a month, isn’t that a good deal?” or some such number.
I could barely stammer out my response which was dude, I have no idea if that is a “good deal” or not. Can you tell me the actual purchase price? I mean, I could sell you a $20,000 fishing shack and ask you to pay me $718 a month, do we have a deal?
ToomuchStuff
4-30-20, 12:24am
I have TWO senior citizen friends who put out their money to take on more real estate than they need. Both have new mortgages, and we all know how much equity one builds in the first years of amortized payments. minuscule amounts. Both have always had the rejoinder “but mortgage interest can be deducted from taxes!”
With their now low income and especially with Trump tax changes doubling standard deductions, it is difficult for me to see how anyone can make this argument. Not saying they are, am just saying they both would have made the argument in the past.
But all of that said, it comes down to a general idea of living according to your means and needing greater flexibility in aging and smaller incomes.
Our real estate needs to be simple as our income decreases. I will try mightily to resist buying a condo in the city after we move our main residence to Hermann. Renting will be fine and no long term investment.Even cheap condos that I love ($55,000) come with long term obligations of ownership. In a down economy you cant jettison them, they are like time-shares. No thanks.
I would love to know if they actually itemize?
That said, I have a 83 year old real estate woman, that for years, kept telling me I should "upgrade" to a bigger house. They always did, and then the 2008 thing hit and both lost lots of income (still working), and eventually were foreclosed upon. They moved into her daughters basement for a couple of years, until they got back on their feet and rented an apartment. Since that time, she now understands my "why do I want more to heat/cool/clean, etc. then I need. I prefer no mortgage."
Thinking about 15 vs 30 year mortgages, when I was in high school, back in the 80’s, the mother of one of my friends went to get a mortgage. Recently divorced she needed a place to raise her kids. The loan officer turned her down because even though she met the income requirement he said ‘you won’t be working for 30 years (she was in her late 40’s). So she said ‘what about a 15 year mortgage? It’ll be paid off before I turn 65.’ It turned out that she still met the income requirement for the payments. So the loan officer grudgingly approved it. Fifteen years later it was paid off and she was thrilled with the inadvertent and unintended benefit of the shorter loan.
Twenty Five years ago when we built our current house we secured a 30 year mortgage with the intent of paying it off early by adding additional principle payments each month. We paid that mortgage off in 12 years.
A few years later we took out another $100K mortgage to pay off our daughter's student loans and make a few improvements. That one was structured as a 15 year mortgage which we paid off in 7, again using additional principle payments to take time off the term.
It doesn't actually take much effort to take considerable time off a mortgage term, especially in the early days when additional principle payments are small.
Twenty Five years ago when we built our current house we secured a 30 year mortgage with the intent of paying it off early by adding additional principle payments each month. We paid that mortgage off in 12 years.
A few years later we took out another $100K mortgage to pay off our daughter's student loans and make a few improvements. That one was structured as a 15 year mortgage which we paid off in 7, again using additional principle payments to take time off the term.
It doesn't actually take much effort to take considerable time off a mortgage term, especially in the early days when additional principle payments are small.
That’s true. If you have sufficient discipline you can treat a thirty year term as if it were fifteen. I can’t see much of a downside to that approach.
That’s true. If you have sufficient discipline you can treat a thirty year term as if it were fifteen. I can’t see much of a downside to that approach.
Unless you don't have sufficient discipline. Mea culpa.
iris lilies
5-3-20, 11:53am
Unless you don't have sufficient discipline. Mea culpa.
And this associates in my mind the whole problem with “budgeting. “ I have never “budgeted. “
to me, the budgeting process defines what you may spend in each category. So, when you have a budget of $738 for your monthly mortgage payment guess what you spend $738! You don’t spend $850 even if one month you can afford to do that.
If you budget $200 for groceries in a month, you spend $200. If In one month you only need to spend $124 you likely will still spend $200, or will move excess to “entertainment” budget line.
Never budgeted, never will, and I have lots of money. I did train myself in my young adulthood to examine every purchase as necessary or unnecessary. Every purchase. I did not actively track although I believe tracking is a good thing, I was just not going to do that but I didn’t have to because I kind of mentally did it daily, and that is how pennies turn into dollars.
“ Budgeting” is how they taught household money management in high school Home Ec. What a limited point of view. And it’s an example of why I think public schools are not going to teach good money management technique, that’s more of a learn from your parents thing.
I think it is true that I handle my caloric intake poorly, like most Americans handle their money. I am on target and disciplined and knowledgeable about money BUT I am undisciplined and unknowledgeable (unless I track ) about calories I take in. So we all have our weaknesses!
I do feel more secure knowing that our house is paid in full and our health, as far as I know, is good. I know that with current income we can manage all the extras - healthcare, insurance, home repairs etc.and still manage to save every month. Realizing that nothing is guaranteed, I have been wondering lately about the health of my pension and the future of SS payments. The virus crisis has shown how many were not living the golden life that Trump declared. I have been very poor in my life and that feeling of not having enough to pay bills is one I would hate to repeat. In an ethereal sense, the concept of "home" is where I feel most secure. Familiarity of family, friends, food, flora and fauna...I am not home yet, but I intend to be soon.
I was making double house payments for a few years in order to have it paid off by the time I retire in 2026.
Now I’m making single house payments and letting our bank balance grow.
I’m not even sure that is the best decision.
Will my pension be there?
Will our bank balances be frozen?
Will I ever get SS?
Will the mortgage company let me skip some months if I paid a lot ahead?
I have no idea if my decision is right but I’m trying to keep a highly liquid stash available.
Unless you don't have sufficient discipline. Mea culpa.
Over the years, I have found automated payments and deductions to be an excellent substitute for personal discipline.
We just moved and I now have a home loan again. But at 3.125% I figure it was worth it. We have enough to pay it off if needed, but this way we have more cash available. If rates go back up we will continue to pay the minimum, if rates drop we may pay extra.
We have no other loans, and have been retired now for close to 13 years. Now at close to 63 I have a 30 year mortgage. It’s nice not having a house payment, but there is always taxes and insurance to pay.
I also like the auto payment for all my bills, the only checks I write are the lawn guy and my dads assisted living place.
I was making double house payments for a few years in order to have it paid off by the time I retire in 2026.
Now I’m making single house payments and letting our bank balance grow.
I’m not even sure that is the best decision.
Will my pension be there?
Will our bank balances be frozen?
Will I ever get SS?
Will the mortgage company let me skip some months if I paid a lot ahead?
I have no idea if my decision is right but I’m trying to keep a highly liquid stash available.
No, you cannot skip payments. I do hope you designated all the extra money to 'principle'? Otherwise, they could have applied it to interest.
I do not believe SS will vanish.
Pension? Well, that depends on your company and what their fine print reads.
I personally believe it is never a bad thing to hammer off debt. Especially since you're retiring soon. Look forward not back. ;)
Oh yes - all extra went principle.
Here’s the thing - in normal times I would pay thousands extra to principle, only keeping about 2 months living expenses in liquidity. In these times I want many months (12?) of living expenses in cash. In case my job disappears.
Here’s the thing - in normal times I would pay thousands extra to principle, only keeping about 2 months living expenses in liquidity. In these times I want many months (12?) of living expenses in cash. In case my job disappears.
Agreed! We went to 18m expenses back in the 2008 crash.
iris lilies
5-3-20, 10:45pm
I was making double house payments for a few years in order to have it paid off by the time I retire in 2026.
Now I’m making single house payments and letting our bank balance grow.
I’m not even sure that is the best decision.
Will my pension be there?
Will our bank balances be frozen?
Will I ever get SS?
Will the mortgage company let me skip some months if I paid a lot ahead?
I have no idea if my decision is right but I’m trying to keep a highly liquid stash available.
My inner bag lady is all about big liquid stash. While she likes a paid off house, she likes the freedom-to-flee-or-do-whatever that cashola gives even more.
You and I are a lot alike. Except I like trees. 😁
iris lilies
5-4-20, 10:20am
You and I are a lot alike. Except I like trees.
haha but I like trees, in their right place and properly managed.
I think an insurance strategy can be useful in managing risk. I have used it to get some protection against dying too soon, living too long, bad health, big capital losses and (most importantly) my own negligence.
I think an insurance strategy can be useful in managing risk. I have used it to get some protection against dying too soon, living too long, bad health, big capital losses and (most importantly) my own negligence.
As the resident ‘insurance guy’ here I agree. Transferring risk is often a good strategy. Especially potentially catastrophic risk like major illness or negligence that causes serious harm. For other things, like not earning income for a year, risk retention is likely going to have to be a sizable part of the plan since there’s simply not insurance out there to cover that. And the maximum loss is just not that great.
Personally, even though I’m unlikely to lose my job any time soon(my department is well ahead of budget for the year and shouldn’t be seriously impact by covid) I find great comfort in being overly in cash right now. Once things calm down a bit I will figure out where to invest that money for some hopefully decent returns. For now it helps me sleep at night which is a good return in itself.
As the resident ‘insurance guy’ here I agree. Transferring risk is often a good strategy. Especially potentially catastrophic risk like major illness or negligence that causes serious harm. For other things, like not earning income for a year, risk retention is likely going to have to be a sizable part of the plan since there’s simply not insurance out there to cover that. And the maximum loss is just not that great.
Personally, even though I’m unlikely to lose my job any time soon(my department is well ahead of budget for the year and shouldn’t be seriously impact by covid) I find great comfort in being overly in cash right now. Once things calm down a bit I will figure out where to invest that money for some hopefully decent returns. For now it helps me sleep at night which is a good return in itself.
That’s a good point. Retaining some risk by maintaining a reserve to cover higher deductibles and self-insuring for some risks can be very effective. It also seems to me that in general the simpler products like SPIAs or term life policies are better than some of the more complicated bell-and-whistle laden contracts.
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