View Full Version : Does anyone agree with me? (About wearing masks)
gimmethesimplelife
5-18-20, 8:32pm
I personally see wearing a mask in public as a sign of emotional maturity - let me explain. To me, wearing a mask signifies that the wearer understands that it's not all about them and that their actions do indeed impact others. Anyone agree? Or disagree? Rob
If full PPE agree. If cloth face coverings that do not stop small covid particles disagree.
Teacher Terry
5-18-20, 9:05pm
Totally agree Rob.
I see it as a sign of courtesy and respect for others. I was at Costco this am for the first time since all this started and the gatekeeper was asking every entrant if they had a mask. Several in line were a bit put off by it but just happened to have one on them which they put on and then pulled off once inside. This won't go on forever so not understanding why the need to be so defiant by some.
Simplemind
5-18-20, 9:56pm
I absolutely understand that it isn't 100% effective (or even close to that) for myself or for others. I wear it predominately to keep my hands from my face when in the store. I don't wear it out walking. In stores I actually appreciate people keeping their distance more than I care about them wearing a mask. I don't think twice about wearing it. I don't think twice about others not wearing it. I do believe it is a simple and easy sign of courtesy as well as a small layer of protection for me.
I see them being around for awhile. The Asian community has been doing it during cold and flu season for ages.
The Asian community has been doing it during cold and flu season for ages.
I imagine if we keep up with the social distancing, hand washing, reduce face touching and wearing face masks we will severely decrease the common cold/flu this next year.
I must admit not touching my face is a huge problem for me. I am always rubbing my eyes, nose, etc. I am very aware of it now, but usually after I have
just done if for the umpteenth time. >:(
One of the things I realized the other day was that I no longer put Kleenex in my pocket. Since I don’t Interact with any other human besides SO, and very briefly grocery store workers,any more I no longer get infected with colds.
ApatheticNoMore
5-19-20, 12:25am
I had one cold in 4 1/2 years and before the pandemic I was hardly a germphobe, although I didn't see people when they had sick symptoms (because I didn't want to obviously expose myself to the miserable common cold - but anything beyond that I didn't even stress - 5 second rule, fine with me). Now though ...
I don't view it as signaling behaviour. I view it as a useful public health tool.
But what do I know, I've only been on the region's infectious disease control team for years, and have full Ebola suits in my go-bag.
If full PPE agree. If cloth face coverings that do not stop small covid particles disagree.
You don't even know what you don't know.
You don't even know what you don't know.
I've posted a link before by a doctor, which notes that cloth masks not only don't block covid particles, which are small, but give people a false sense of security so they don't social distance. Are you a doctor?
I've posted a link before by a doctor, which notes that cloth masks not only don't block covid particles, which are small, but give people a false sense of security so they don't social distance. Are you a doctor?
What’s next? Are you going to start telling people that coughing into their elbow is pointless virtue signaling and that we all might as well just cough in people’s faces?
happystuff
5-19-20, 7:50am
OP question - I agree. I would hate to think that I was the cause of or added to causes of another person's death because I didn't/wouldn't do something as simple as wear a mask.
OP question - I agree. I would hate to think that I was the cause of or added to causes of another person's death because I didn't/wouldn't do something as simple as wear a mask.
Me, too. So I wear a mask.
But I am troubled by the mask as signaling anything to someone else--yesterday went went out and I wore a mask and because of my breathing issues, got sick and had to go home and spend rest of day in bed. Although our signs say, "mask required unless you have breathing issues etc." I was afraid to take the mask off, even when I was in distress, because I feared the kind of angry, negative reaction that some people display towards those not wearing a mask.
So Rob, my reaction is wear the mask because it supposedly helps, but don't read into the actions of others, and don't go vigilante on people who are not wearing masks. If that answers your question at all?
Me, too. So I wear a mask.
But I am troubled by the mask as signaling anything to someone else--yesterday went went out and I wore a mask and because of my breathing issues, got sick and had to go home and spend rest of day in bed. Although our signs say, "mask required unless you have breathing issues etc." I was afraid to take the mask off, even when I was in distress, because I feared the kind of angry, negative reaction that some people display towards those not wearing a mask.
Yes, I definitely feel the social pressure. Throughout this thing I track the # of people walking into our little supermarket with/without masks.. it wavered from a slight majority earlier on and now trending to a slight minority of people wearing "recommended" masks. There are places in town though that mandate wearing masks to enter the store.
I wear a mask for many of the same reasons people have mentioned: Why not--I've seen the pee analogy, and it makes sense to me.
https://www.truthorfiction.com/wear-your-mask-the-urine-test-analogy-meme/
I've posted a link before by a doctor, which notes that cloth masks not only don't block covid particles, which are small, but give people a false sense of security so they don't social distance. Are you a doctor?
And I've posted several times that the kind of mask and the kind of filter (HEPA is good) determine the effectiveness of your mask. And masking is just one tool in your pandemic shed. If you have breathing issues, you might try a protective shield. More options become available all the time. I agree there are several advantages to wearing a mask, including likely protection during cold and flu season.
happystuff
5-19-20, 9:36am
This question and other threads around the forum have me thinking about this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tXzlVjU1xs
It really is pretty simple, "it's how we treat each other - nothing more".
Have a good day and a kind day, everyone.
I personally see wearing a mask in public as a sign of emotional maturity - let me explain. To me, wearing a mask signifies that the wearer understands that it's not all about them and that their actions do indeed impact others. Anyone agree? Or disagree? Rob
Absolutely agree!
You don't even know what you don't know.
Oh Bae, educating Y is beyond reality. The delusion is strong with this one:confused:
This question and other threads around the forum have me thinking about this song: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tXzlVjU1xs
It really is pretty simple, "it's how we treat each other - nothing more".
Have a good day and a kind day, everyone.
Beautiful song, happystuff, and so true!
ApatheticNoMore
5-19-20, 11:29am
I have my doubt about the usefulness of masks outside where you keep 6 feet away or more, such as walking or going to the gas station. Though I haven't walked trails, they are too crowded for my taste, I walk surburbia, which has people walking of course, but it's less hard to distance.
I mask up for the grocery and even the apartment laundry room, even though the laundry room is just a rather drafty shack with only one person allowed in at a time, you never know. Otherwise this apartment building doesn't have any other shared indoor space. And I have literally been in no public places inside but the grocery and the laundry room in 2 months. One day I might have to go to the bank and I can (actually must) wear a mask to the bank now! Most everyone is wearing masks to the grocery, it's the law.
ToomuchStuff
5-19-20, 1:42pm
I've posted a link before by a doctor, which notes that cloth masks not only don't block covid particles, which are small, but give people a false sense of security so they don't social distance. Are you a doctor?
While not a Doctor, I expect his training is similar to a relatives of mine. He had training by medical/biohazard specialists before being allowed to do the work he was hired for, on a military installation. Things like, how long does x virus, last outside the body, in a dry environment, in stasis, and reactivate with moisture and still be contagious. (can't believe spell check didn't get me on that word, as it is one I normally screw up)
Had to wear full gear in sections, and his equipment had to be decontaminated and checked before he could handle it again.
ToomuchStuff
5-19-20, 1:50pm
I have my doubt about the usefulness of masks outside where you keep 6 feet away or more, such as walking or going to the gas station.
I think masks are as much a placebo, as a reminder to do other things (wash hands more, etc), because there will be so many contact surfaces that one comes in contact with, and I don't know exactly how long and on what the virus can survive, that I believe the odds are I will still come in contact with it. I think there use in other countries has shown they are effective, certainly with other contagions, but with shortages, what qualifies as a proper fitting mask, that is effective, is not what we see in use, often.
frugal-one
5-19-20, 2:33pm
I wear a mask when going into the grocery store. When hiking the trails outside and able to maintain social distancing I do not wear a mask.
happystuff
5-19-20, 2:52pm
Any more, I always have a mask with me. Walking, shopping, etc. - I have a mask ready for use, if/as needed.
We keep several in each of our cars for use when shopping. I don't kid myself by thinking it provides us with much protection but wear them so others feel better if I should sneeze.
We also ordered several face gaiters which should be here in a few days, I like the idea of being able to clean them easily for extended use.
And I've posted several times that the kind of mask and the kind of filter (HEPA is good) determine the effectiveness of your mask. And masking is just one tool in your pandemic shed. If you have breathing issues, you might try a protective shield. More options become available all the time. I agree there are several advantages to wearing a mask, including likely protection during cold and flu season.
I know of people whose masks have a pocket for a coffee or other filter, but no one is putting filters in them. Other people are using bandanas. People touch the mask part of them not just the straps, take them off and leave them on dirty surfaces, never wash them, etc. At work we all were given one nonwashable mask a few weeks ago.
I’ve discovered that infectious disease experts know a lot more about these things than regular doctors. Daily leadership conference calls 7 days a week since early March - the only day we skipped was Mother’s Day. The calls have to do with infection control in our 300 plus bed psych Dept. We had about 30 patients with covid at one point last month and now we are down to zero. You don’t accomplish that without massive time spent on learning all this stuff and making daily and hourly adjustments to workflow practices as new info comes in from the infectious disease experts.
I’m exhausted but wow is it ever true that the experts know what the hell they’re talking about.
Wearing masks can trigger trauma:
https://www.altoonamirror.com/news/local-news/2020/04/wearing-of-face-masks-can-trigger-trauma-for-some/
I never like anything near my face. I do not wear cowl neck sweaters and even in the dead of winter do not use scarves. I think it goes back to when I was a young child. If my mother thought I was being too noisy in church she would clap her hand across my mouth and I would panic that I would not be able to breathe.
But yeah, if people who don't want to wear a mask, despite its doubtful efficacy, they're inconsiderate, selfish disease spreaders ... according to some judgmental folks.
I just spent three hours in a nice Zoom conference with the US Navy's Head of Microbiology responsible for biowarfare detection and training, and another fellow who is Harvard Medical Schools Emergency Medicine guru/Mass. General's Head of Emergency Medicine (who only has 250+ peer-reviewed publications), and a lady who is the leading expert on Ebola, and a few other similar idiots, cowards, and fear-mongers. Oddly, all people known to me personally for decades.
Wear a face covering, folks, if you can. And don't listen to the Russian-generated "resist" memes and such that useful...folks...like Yppej pass along.
Teacher Terry
5-24-20, 8:23pm
Despite having anxiety, being claustrophobic and having breathing issues from asthma/severe allergies I am wearing a mask. I don’t wear things around my neck either as even turtlenecks bothers me. If I start to feel to bad I go outside so I can get in my car and take it off. I trust you Bae considering the company you keep:))
No Russian memes for me? I am not on social media.
Wearing masks can trigger trauma:
https://www.altoonamirror.com/news/local-news/2020/04/wearing-of-face-masks-can-trigger-trauma-for-some/
I never like anything near my face. I do not wear cowl neck sweaters and even in the dead of winter do not use scarves. I think it goes back to when I was a young child. If my mother thought I was being too noisy in church she would clap her hand across my mouth and I would panic that I would not be able to breathe.
But yeah, if people who don't want to wear a mask, despite its doubtful efficacy, they're inconsiderate, selfish disease spreaders ... according to some judgmental folks.
I feel bad that you suffer from past trauma when wearing masks, but I would say that the vast majority of non-wearers in cases where masks are mandated are, yes, inconsiderate and selfish. Our local market requires masks. Today a woman walked in without a mask and the owner politely asked her to return to the car and put on a mask. The woman continued shopping and the owner had to again ask her to put on a mask. So the woman left in a huff but returned with the mask. Why couldn't she simply have been compliant at the outset?
Last year when my husband was diagnosed with metapneumonitis, all the health care providers put masks on when entering the room. I had to wear a mask. Were they stupid?
I just spent three hours in a nice Zoom conference with the US Navy's Head of Microbiology responsible for biowarfare detection and training, and another fellow who is Harvard Medical Schools Emergency Medicine guru/Mass. General's Head of Emergency Medicine (who only has 250+ peer-reviewed publications), and a lady who is the leading expert on Ebola, and a few other similar idiots, cowards, and fear-mongers. Oddly, all people known to me personally for decades.
Wear a face covering, folks, if you can. And don't listen to the Russian-generated "resist" memes and such that useful...folks...like Yppej pass along.
Oh I would loved to hear that conference! I miss IP meetings. I could listen to our state epidemiologist all day long. The work and information fascinates me!
I don't open my car door until my mask is in place. And I am a well-trained IP practitioner.
No Russian memes for me? I am not on social media.
Oddly, you don't have to be on social media to get infected with the disinformation.
Oddly, you don't have to be on social media to get infected with the disinformation.
Oddly, you don't need any connection with Russia to be a victim of McCarthyism.
Claustrophobia/trauma are real. And the benefit of masks is real. Both things can be real at the same time.
Oddly, you don't need any connection with Russia to be a victim of McCarthyism.
Hilarious. And proving my point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
Hilarious. And proving my point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot
LOL:~)
ApatheticNoMore
5-25-20, 1:06am
probably as much Rupert Murdoch as Russia.
probably as much Rupert Murdoch as Russia.
See, I am sitting here in my mountain fortess, and I am going to kick back, relaxed, for 3-15 years, while events sort themselves out and the stupid people kill each other.
I just spent three hours in a nice Zoom conference with the US Navy's Head of Microbiology responsible for biowarfare detection and training, and another fellow who is Harvard Medical Schools Emergency Medicine guru/Mass. General's Head of Emergency Medicine (who only has 250+ peer-reviewed publications), and a lady who is the leading expert on Ebola, and a few other similar idiots, cowards, and fear-mongers. Oddly, all people known to me personally for decades.
Wear a face covering, folks, if you can. And don't listen to the Russian-generated "resist" memes and such that useful...folks...like Yppej pass along.
Title dropping, a new twist on name dropping? What a dilemma - should such an important person as you don your hazmat suit and work 72 hours straight and be a hero? Or should such an affluent person as you kick back in your mountain fortress for 3 to 15 years?
Maybe you could hide out on the White House bunker and be a hero there. I mean, dismissing the economic concerns of deplorables, or idiots as you call them, is a winning formula, isn't it?
happystuff
5-25-20, 9:01am
With all the alternatives and varieties available, I would think there is something for everyone with regards to "masking". The people I know with breathing difficulties and/or "mask trauma" now use clear plastic shields covering their entire faces - not constricting their noses or mouths, but covering from the forehead to below the chin. I think they are fabulous alternatives, but base that solely on seeing them in use, not using one. How do these rate, bae?
frugal-one
5-25-20, 12:13pm
Title dropping, a new twist on name dropping? What a dilemma - should such an important person as you don your hazmat suit and work 72 hours straight and be a hero? Or should such an affluent person as you kick back in your mountain fortress for 3 to 15 years?
Maybe you could hide out on the White House bunker and be a hero there. I mean, dismissing the economic concerns of deplorables, or idiots as you call them, is a winning formula, isn't it?
Or you could, as an essential employee, be mandated to stay at work for a month straight!
Or you could, as an essential employee, be mandated to stay at work for a month straight!
Since the business is only open 9 hours a day 5 days a week that wouldn't work out, sorry to disappoint you. But I have thought of getting a second job since I've got plenty of time on my hands.
What a dilemma
I've found that with good scheduling habits and prioritizing, it's not *that* terribly difficult to be Batman. (The 72 hour shifts help too, as you get the rest of the week off to dust the Batcave.)
Maybe you could hide out on the White House bunker and be a hero there. I mean, dismissing the economic concerns of deplorables, or idiots as you call them, is a winning formula, isn't it?
My context, as was quite explicit, was mask-wearing. You know this. You're just being dishonest again.
And in the context of mask-wearing, of course the White House would seem to be one of the worst places to be...
Title dropping, a new twist on name dropping? What a dilemma - should such an important person as you don your hazmat suit and work 72 hours straight and be a hero? Or should such an affluent person as you kick back in your mountain fortress for 3 to 15 years?
Maybe you could hide out on the White House bunker and be a hero there. I mean, dismissing the economic concerns of deplorables, or idiots as you call them, is a winning formula, isn't it?
Wow, you've gone to a whole new level of low. >:(
Wow, you've gone to a whole new level of low. >:(
In this thread alone I have been called ignorant, delusional, an idiot, a Russian pawn, and dishonest.
Thanks to everyone who does think the government should mandate masks and fine people for not wearing them, but who is able to disagree with me without being disagreeable.
ApatheticNoMore
5-25-20, 5:33pm
What is going on here is well my grandfather has a poster that said something like: "I've made up my mind, don't confuse me with the facts".
So everyone is exasperated at engaging in this dishonest argumentation, that isn't actually in any sense even interested in facts (I mean we are still arguing over garbage like whether Sweden will have herd immunity soon, when studies show very little of the population has antibodies (if a bunch of new studies show otherwise, well then I might change my mind, but currently), that probably COULD NOT BE CONVINCED BY ANY POSSIBLE evidence and so one is a fool to take the bait except in that it maybe provides info to others, but rather is just in stirring the pot all day long, that borders on trolling, after people are already being stressed out plenty due to well you know a @#$# pandemic going on.
I have definitely not signed onto the groupthink that there is only one correct way to approach the pandemic, a top down heavy-handed approach. I don't think that makes me delusional. On the other hand if I thought I were Batman I would say I was suffering from delusions of grandeur.
I have definitely not signed onto the groupthink that there is only one correct way to approach the pandemic, a top down heavy-handed approach. I don't think that makes me delusional. On the other hand if I thought I were Batman I would say I was suffering from delusions of grandeur.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71odNf1GmkL.jpg
Covid deaths per 100,000:
Sweden 39.26
Italy 54.25
Spain 61.54
United Kingdom 55.46
France 42.35
Belgium 81.25
Andorra 66.23
San Marino 124.32
Source Johns Hopkins University
Covid deaths per 100,000:
Sweden 39.26
Italy 54.25
Spain 61.54
United Kingdom 55.46
France 42.35
Belgium 81.25
Andorra 66.23
San Marino 124.32
Source Johns Hopkins University
New York: 150 They win! Is this really a contest?
Following the science and the recommendations kept their horrific death rates low. The USA? "We have it under control". "It's going to go away". "Masks are not necessary". Yup, that worked:(
What is your point?
New York: 150 They win! Is this really a contest?
Following the science and the recommendations kept their horrific death rates low. The USA? "We have it under control". "It's going to go away". "Masks are not necessary". Yup, that worked:(
What is your point?
My point is there is more than one way to approach coronavirus. Sweden has not had a draconian top-down approach like the other European countries listed, yet has fared better.
If only someone knew something about Exploratory Data Analysis (which as I recall was invented at Princeton...), these numbers would provoke some interesting questions...
However naive analysis is likely to produce confusion.
3230
When I was in high school the Hong Kong flu killed somewhere between 1 and 4 million people worldwide and over 100,000 in the US. I don't remember it.
When I was in high school the Hong Kong flu killed somewhere between 1 and 4 million people worldwide and over 100,000 in the US. I don't remember it.
I don't remember much about it. Then again, I was only 6.
However, it took about a year and a half to kill the 100,000 in the USA, Covid-19 has managed that in about 3 months. A vaccine was also produced within a few months, and there were supportive therapies available pretty early on. It is supposedly one of the mildest pandemic events in the books for that and a few other reasons.
My point is there is more than one way to approach coronavirus. Sweden has not had a draconian top-down approach like the other European countries listed, yet has fared better.
Say what? Read up buttercup. https://www.healthline.com/health-news/heres-what-happened-in-sweden-and-you-cant-compare-it-to-u-s#Sweden-not-untouched-by-COVID-19
Sweden’s more relaxed approach — coexisting with the new coronavirus rather than declaring war (https://time.com/5806657/donald-trump-coronavirus-war-china/) on it — hasn’t been entirely painless.
“In terms of the mortality rate per capita from COVID-19, Sweden is not doing as well as the other countries nearby in Scandinavia that are similar but have approached the pandemic in a different way,” said Dr. Saahir Khan (http://www.ucihealth.org/find-a-doctor/k/saahir-khan), assistant clinical professor of infectious disease at UCI Health in Orange, California.
As of May 18, Sweden’s per capita death rate was 36 per 100,000, which is higher than the United States at 27 and neighboring Denmark at 9.
Over this past week, Sweden also had the highest per capita death rate (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-health-coronavirus-sweden-casualties-idUSKBN22V26A) for COVID-19 in Europe.
Data, and where to find it...
https://www.forbes.com/sites/marshallshepherd/2020/04/18/why-people-cherry-pick-science-dataits-happening-with-coronavirus/#60f215b11a21
ApatheticNoMore
5-26-20, 12:16am
I'm not sure what the country comparisons does either, it's just like here's a bunch of stuff thrown at the wall. Europe in general didn't do great, it's really not a example of success (sure the U.S. can and likely will do worse).
Some went more draconian eventually but went so AFTER the thing already had a significant spread (Italy which it hit early, the UK - at least) so pretty meaningless to use them as examples of effective action. And I have heard antibody tests show about the same number infected in Spain, Italy and Sweden, about 5%, and so the herd immunity that Sweden imagines it has achieved is largely mythical, even assuming immunity, 95% aren't in Sweden nor Spain nor Italy, despite a whole lotta dying going on! As far as anyone is able to ascertain at this point noone is anywhere near herd immunity, it's complete fiction (and apocalyptic fiction considering what it would take if it was possible). As for why some have more deaths, well I don't know entirely, the demographics are different (older), some have less hospitals and so hospital overwhelm might have contributed (I don't think the u.s. has that many either) etc..
https://medium.com/@indica/covid-underdogs-mongolia-3b0c162427c2
Mongolia rocked it. In January.
https://medium.com/@indica/covid-underdogs-mongolia-3b0c162427c2
Mongolia rocked it. In January.
This is inspiring, really. I've long thought if we had had a serious lockdown in January, COVID19 would probably behind us now. Our government certainly had time to plan for it.
iris lilies
5-26-20, 9:57am
https://medium.com/@indica/covid-underdogs-mongolia-3b0c162427c2
Mongolia rocked it. In January.
That article was interesting.
This is inspiring, really. I've long thought if we had had a serious lockdown in January, COVID19 would probably behind us now. Our government certainly had time to plan for it.
Yes. That was proven in Vietnam. Despite a population of 95 million and a close proximity to the source of the outbreak, the country has yet to report a single COVID-19 death. Then again, it’s difficult to know which countries are doing a better job reporting the numbers.
Considering the infection statistics in better-led countries, Washington's 20,000 is appalling to me (with over 1000 deaths).
iris lilies
5-26-20, 11:53am
Considering the infection statistics in better-led countries, Washington's 20,000 is appalling to me (with over 1000 deaths).
Does the state of Washington have any leaders? That could have made decisions to your liking, I mean. Or even your county or municipality—any leaders there? None? Bueller?
Does the state of Washington have any leaders? That could have made decisions to your liking, I mean. Or even your county or municipality—any leaders there? None? Bueller?
I think Governor (the Snake ;)) Inslee is doing as well as possible under the circumstances, not getting proper PPE or funding or much of any help from Trump, who should have made this a priority as soon as it was brought to his attention, in December or at least January.
Teacher Terry
5-26-20, 1:29pm
Vietnam stopped the virus in January when my son was there. They used the military to shutdown the town and they traced who had contact with them and brought everyone to the same town until well. Obviously we have too many rights for that to happen here.
Vietnam stopped the virus in January when my son was there. They used the military to shutdown the town and they traced who had contact with them and brought everyone to the same town until well. Obviously we have too many rights for that to happen here.
We did contact tracing and "voluntary" at-home quarantine here in my county, and shut down transient vacation lodging.
Pretty much nipped it in the bud here too.
Didn't need the military, or even the Sheriff, as people voluntarily Did The Right Thing for the most part.
Now that the tourist season is getting going though, well....
iris lilies
5-26-20, 1:43pm
We did contact tracing and "voluntary" at-home quarantine here in my county, and shut down transient vacation lodging.
Pretty much nipped it in the bud here too.
Didn't need the military, or even the Sheriff, as people voluntarily Did The Right Thing for the most part.
Now that the tourist season is getting going though, well....
Ferris, thank you for speaking up to this point.
Orcas Island in wintertime, without many nursing homes, is a vastly different place than the King/Snohomish county area.
Orcas Island in wintertime, without many nursing homes, is a vastly different place than the King/Snohomish county area.
Yes, thank goodness.
With our fragile medical infrastructure here, we activated our Emergency Operations Center very very early. It helps that our medical directors also work King County, and use us to beta-test protocols. WA state as a whole did quite well.
Almost all of our infections here came from a very small number of visitors from off-island, who then coughed onto local merchants at farm stands and stores, who then infected their own families. Contact tracing stopped the spread pretty rapidly.
Oregon's done well--with a relatively early lockdown order, they have 20% of the cases and 10% of the deaths (roughly) that we have.
Oregon's rabble, consequently, are calling their governor everything but a hero. Because dammit, they want a haircut. Or to go bowling. Or something.
happystuff
5-26-20, 4:17pm
I will begin by saying that I'm definitely LIMITING my intake of COVID-19-related "stuff". Not ignoring! but definitely limiting for my own peace of mind. I am, however, reading these threads. So, something I was just wondering - because some places have tracing, testing, mask requirements, all different things being done and different rules all over, etc.:
Knowing what everyone *should* know about this virus at this point in time (right now), if someone were to NOT wear a mask, have the virus (known or unknown to themselves), and they infect someone who then dies from COVID-19 and it is traced back to them, could they then be charged with murder? Or have I missed it and this has already happened?
Yes, I now there are lots of "ifs" and "buts" in the above, but still... it's a crazy world right now and I just wondered.
I will begin by saying that I'm definitely LIMITING my intake of COVID-19-related "stuff". Not ignoring! but definitely limiting for my own peace of mind. I am, however, reading these threads. So, something I was just wondering - because some places have tracing, testing, mask requirements, all different things being done and different rules all over, etc.:
Knowing what everyone *should* know about this virus at this point in time (right now), if someone were to NOT wear a mask, have the virus (known or unknown to themselves), and they infect someone who then dies from COVID-19 and it is traced back to them, could they then be charged with murder? Or have I missed it and this has already happened?
Yes, I now there are lots of "ifs" and "buts" in the above, but still... it's a crazy world right now and I just wondered.
I haven't read anything about that happening and think it would be a really bad idea. That said, it's not outside of the realm of possibility that someone might try to make it happen. One only need to look at the history of efforts to criminalize HIV infection to see how it might play out.
Knowing what everyone *should* know about this virus at this point in time (right now), if someone were to NOT wear a mask, have the virus (known or unknown to themselves), and they infect someone who then dies from COVID-19 and it is traced back to them, could they then be charged with murder? I would think not. As I understand it a mask does not eliminate a threat, but mitigates it. And it's further complicated by the efficacy of the mask material since there seems to be a wide array of devices being used. I think the best case anyone could make would be one of willful endangerment but I think even then it would require an element of intent, but I certainly wouldn't be surprised to see someone try.
Vietnam stopped the virus in January when my son was there. They used the military to shutdown the town and they traced who had contact with them and brought everyone to the same town until well. Obviously we have too many rights for that to happen here.
They also had a really catchy pop song in Vietnam about washing your hands.
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