View Full Version : And the science says...
Wear a mask in public indoor spaces. If infected people (or potentially infected people, which is ALL of us) largely wear masks, the spread of this disease will be significantly reduced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhQw7vLNsDA
iris lilies
5-25-20, 11:23pm
Wear a mask in public indoor spaces. If infected people (or potentially infected people, which is ALL of us) largely wear masks, the spread of this disease will be significantly reduced.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhQw7vLNsDA
hoo boy, another thread in which we can squabble about masks. ‘Cause we need that.
hoo boy, another thread in which we can squabble about masks. ‘Cause we need that.
Indeed. Because at least one of our members won’t want to hear science that doesn’t comport with their hatred of masks. Bummer for them.
iris lilies
5-25-20, 11:43pm
Indeed. Because at least one of our members won’t want to hear science that doesn’t comport with their hatred of masks. Bummer for them.
So, is this thread to keep her from having to read about science and masks? Or is it to focus on science and masks so that she would come over and read it from other threads? Or? pray tell, what is the purpose of a separate thread about the eternal topic of masks.
I suppose I can’t stop the ‘I hate science’ crowd from infecting this thread with nonsense. But my main point was not to goad stupid responses but instead to share one of my favorite YouTube people who shares facts about covid in his videos.
Teacher Terry
5-26-20, 12:40am
Jp, I read if everyone wears a mask infection rates go down by 80%. Sounds good to me.
When my son was little and he and later I had chickenpox I was told to stay home with pay. It worked for me. One coworker was upset though. He said, "I wish you had come in and I could bring my kids around you so they could catch it. It's better to get it when you're younger and get immunity, because when you're older it's more severe."
Along those lines, if masks really do stop covid, then maybe all the young people partying at places like Lake of the Ozarks are doing us a favor. They are a low risk group helping develop herd immunity for more vulnerable populations, and catching the disease, currently with a mortality rate similar to the flu (when you factor in the asyptomatic people) before it possibly mutates into a more virulent form. The immunity would likely last through a mutation, just as having had cowpox protected against other poxes. Maybe we should be applauding those brave people willing to risk getting covid for the greater good.
I have been watching Dr. John Campbell every day since January. He summarizes all kinds of info and provides all his sources. He clearly was able to put it all together early. He is generally ahead of all the main popular media outlets. No drama just information.
frugal-one
5-26-20, 9:59am
When my son was little and he and later I had chickenpox I was told to stay home with pay. It worked for me. One coworker was upset though. He said, "I wish you had come in and I could bring my kids around you so they could catch it. It's better to get it when you're younger and get immunity, because when you're older it's more severe."
Along those lines, if masks really do stop covid, then maybe all the young people partying at places like Lake of the Ozarks are doing us a favor. They are a low risk group helping develop herd immunity for more vulnerable populations, and catching the disease, currently with a mortality rate similar to the flu (when you factor in the asyptomatic people) before it possibly mutates into a more virulent form. The immunity would likely last through a mutation, just as having had cowpox protected against other poxes. Maybe we should be applauding those brave people willing to risk getting covid for the greater good.
Here is the "her" we are all referring to.... with a stupid response.
iris lilies
5-26-20, 10:25am
Here is the "her" we are all referring to.... with a stupid response.
jp, glad to see your thread bringing out this kind of discourse. Good choice.
frugal-one
5-26-20, 10:35am
jp, glad to see your thread bringing out this kind of discourse. Good choice.
No.... just the same garbage spewed by Jeppy. It gets tiring.
Hey, did you non-maskers know that Trump really does believe in masks when he thinks he's off camera? I laugh that he got caught wearing one when he has been adamant against them.
3231
When my son was little and he and later I had chickenpox I was told to stay home with pay. It worked for me. One coworker was upset though. He said, "I wish you had come in and I could bring my kids around you so they could catch it. It's better to get it when you're younger and get immunity, because when you're older it's more severe."
Along those lines, if masks really do stop covid, then maybe all the young people partying at places like Lake of the Ozarks are doing us a favor. They are a low risk group helping develop herd immunity for more vulnerable populations, and catching the disease, currently with a mortality rate similar to the flu (when you factor in the asyptomatic people) before it possibly mutates into a more virulent form. The immunity would likely last through a mutation, just as having had cowpox protected against other poxes. Maybe we should be applauding those brave people willing to risk getting covid for the greater good.
The only favor they'd be doing us is if they stay home for a couple weeks after this. And wear a damn mask if they absolutely must go out in public. But of course they won't do either so now a month from now we'll be seeing a big surge in the areas surrounding the lake where these selfish fools came from.
I would agree that natural immunity is the safest and most effective kind--especially in cases where the original disease is relatively benign, but I'm aware that mine is a minority view. And it doesn't really work in this instance.
The morons out and about in bars and beaches and beauty salons and churches will fan out, infect more and more innocent people, and extend the life of this virus for months, if not years.
iris lilies
5-26-20, 12:13pm
Hey, did you non-maskers know that Trump really does believe in masks when he thinks he's off camera? I laugh that he got caught wearing one when he has been adamant against them.
3231
If you listen to the Trumpster rather than read a headline, the Trumpster said when he was at the Ford factory ( Is that what this is from?) that he wore a mask when he was in a section of the Ford place where they asked him to wear a mask. I don’t see what’s funny about that.
It’s just kind of narrative that will win Trump his election. Keep going folks.
And he removed the mask for the cameras to "own the libs," not wanting the media catching him "maskulated," as it were.
Hey, did you non-maskers know that Trump really does believe in masks when he thinks he's off camera? I laugh that he got caught wearing one when he has been adamant against them.
3231Is there a hidden relationship between people who'd rather not wear masks and Trump? Or is it just another excuse to feel superior and giggle?
sweetana3
5-26-20, 12:35pm
I wish some would understand just how dangerous this virus is. It is not the flu but it affects cells throughout the body in our blood stream and can cause an incredible amount of disease/damage. Sure not everyone has the same response but it does affect all age groups, is highly contagious, and is spread without any symptoms being present. I am seeing an incredible amount of selfish behavior.
I know a father and son who spend over a month each in ICU. The son barely survived and both are in rehab trying to learn how to breath again and trying to get back some strength.
Is there a hidden relationship between people who'd rather not wear masks and Trump?
No. It's not particularly hidden.
No. It's not particularly hidden.
Well, obviously not in your mind, and probably Gardnr's. Do you really hate people who disagree with you as much as you hate him, or do you just come across that way?
Teacher Terry
5-26-20, 1:24pm
Sweet, you are absolutely right. People are being permanently disabled from it and young people have died. I do think states have to slowly reopen in a responsible manner.
Well, obviously not in your mind, and probably Gardnr's. Do you really hate people who disagree with you as much as you hate him, or do you just come across that way?
I guess you didn't see the pro-trump signs that the mostly unmasked protestors in Michigan and other places had.
But a quick google turns up that you can also see the partisan divide in mask wearing by watching the Minnesota legislature doing their thing.
https://www.minnpost.com/state-government/2020/05/the-partisan-divide-at-the-minnesota-capitol-now-extends-to-mask-wearing/
I don't hate people for disagreeing with me. I hate it when people don't care about the safety of people around them. During my googles just now I found the results of a recent poll that showed that 76% of democratic party identified people wear masks, compared to 59% of republican party identified people. That's a notable difference, but still a pretty high number of republicans concerned about the safety of others and wearing masks. The anti-maskers are just a very vocal minority.
The anti-maskers are just a very vocal minority.I'm not certain because I don't spend any parts of my day looking for confirmation but I'm thinking it's possible that your "anti-maskers" may not have a problem with doing the right thing and wearing a mask, they just don't think it should be mandated.
The fact that those same anti-maskers complaining about them are also not wearing masks would seem to show that they both don’t think it should be mandated and won’t wear one.
I think there is a lot of evidence that masks can slow down the spread of a virus, and am acting accordingly.
I can’t help but feel, though, that when people speak sententiously of “The Science” they are more interested in a rhetorical bludgeon than a tool to uncover truth. Too often “The Science” is being curated and delivered by people with an interest in scoring political points or creating click-worthy drama. That’s why we get the gruesome models predicting millions dead without the qualifications and assumptions. Expertise can be valuable within a certain range, but experts are not oracles.
I think it was GK Chesterton who said something to the effect that education is important because it keeps us from taking educated people too seriously.
The fact that those same anti-maskers complaining about them are also not wearing masks would seem to show that they both don’t think it should be mandated and won’t wear one.Well, it is an effective way to make a point. Protesting being forced to do something while doing that something rings hollow.
frugal-one
5-26-20, 2:13pm
If you listen to the Trumpster rather than read a headline, the Trumpster said when he was at the Ford factory ( Is that what this is from?) that he wore a mask when he was in a section of the Ford place where they asked him to wear a mask. I don’t see what’s funny about that.
It’s just kind of narrative that will win Trump his election. Keep going folks.
From what I heard was he was asked to wear the mask everywhere. He chose to take it off and then (as usual) made up the remark about only wearing where it was required. Kind of like at the Mayo Clinic where EVERYONE wore a mask and he chose to put everyone at risk. And, this person calls himself a leader......
frugal-one
5-26-20, 2:16pm
I wish some would understand just how dangerous this virus is. It is not the flu but it affects cells throughout the body in our blood stream and can cause an incredible amount of disease/damage. Sure not everyone has the same response but it does affect all age groups, is highly contagious, and is spread without any symptoms being present. I am seeing an incredible amount of selfish behavior.
I know a father and son who spend over a month each in ICU. The son barely survived and both are in rehab trying to learn how to breath again and trying to get back some strength.
Skyped with my son today and he said the hospitals in Minneapolis are filled to capacity with COVID19 patients. He personally knows 4 people who had it. The one guy was on a respirator for 2 weeks and is still recovering. This is not the usual flu!
frugal-one
5-26-20, 2:20pm
Well, obviously not in your mind, and probably Gardnr's. Do you really hate people who disagree with you as much as you hate him, or do you just come across that way?
I took it that trump is like those others that we see that do not want to wear masks. They must have a symbiotic relationship?
If I didn't like the speed limit on the road through my village, what would be an appropriate method of protest?
How about if I don't think speed limits should be mandatory?
frugal-one
5-26-20, 2:22pm
I'm not certain because I don't spend any parts of my day looking for confirmation but I'm thinking it's possible that your "anti-maskers" may not have a problem with doing the right thing and wearing a mask, they just don't think it should be mandated.
In normal instances, I would agree. A pandemic is not normal and this is life and death in some cases. Err on the side of caution.
frugal-one
5-26-20, 2:24pm
Well, it is an effective way to make a point. Protesting being forced to do something while doing that something rings hollow.
At the expense of your health... I don't think so.
Well, it is an effective way to make a point. Protesting being forced to do something while doing that something rings hollow.
So in other words, in conservative world they are heroes risking other people's lives by (not wearing masks even though they may be asymptomatic carriers) to make a point? With heroes like those who needs enemies.
If I didn't like the speed limit on the road through my village, what would be an appropriate method of protest?
How about if I don't think speed limits should be mandatory?Then do everything you can to get your point across, especially if you're sure enough of your beliefs to willingly suffer the consequences. That's how it works in free societies.
Please remember that we still don’t know immunity stays with us for the long term.
So in other words, in conservative world they are heroes risking other people's lives by (not wearing masks even though they may be asymptomatic carriers) to make a point? With heroes like those who needs enemies.
I don't know what conservative has to do with it, if you want to make it political I think it's more of a libertarian leaning.
I don't know what conservative has to do with it, if you want to make it political I think it's more of a libertarian leaning.
I thought libertarians did not in general approve of the initiation of force against others.
How does the libertarian belief system handle viral contamination - where the carrier may not know they have it, where contact tracing is thin at best, and where no direct consequences are likely to fall on someone who spreads the infection? In the face of a requirement to wear a face covering in crowded public spaces where contamination is likely?
Do libertarians even handle public spaces, and their regulation, in this sort of case?
We've had some incidents here where store-owners were hassled by maskless customers demanding entry. Seems the store is private property, to a libertarian, and these libertarian mask-protesters would be keen on supporting the store owner's rights to impose conditions upon the entry onto his property.
Turtles upon turtles.
I thought libertarians did not in general approve of the initiation of force against others.
That's my understanding.
How does the libertarian belief system handle viral contamination I don't think viral contamination respects belief systems. It's probably not the virus that's being protested against.
frugal-one
5-26-20, 3:06pm
From what I heard was he was asked to wear the mask everywhere. He chose to take it off and then (as usual) made up the remark about only wearing where it was required. Kind of like at the Mayo Clinic where EVERYONE wore a mask and he chose to put everyone at risk. And, this person calls himself a leader......
Our stupid "leader" at it again!
https://www.mediaite.com/trump/day-after-surgeon-general-tells-americans-to-wear-masks-for-memorial-day-trump-mocks-biden-for-wearing-one/
I don't think viral contamination respects belief systems. It's probably not the virus that's being protested against.[/COLOR]
No. What's being protested is the requirement that people take action to minimize the likelihood that they will harm other people.
I'm reminded of the old saying "your right to swing your fist ends where my nose begins". Perhaps the modern day counterpart is "your right to not wear a mask ends where your potentially infectious breath enters my airspace."
ApatheticNoMore
5-26-20, 3:13pm
sometimes libertarians might consider the store owners, but never employees who might just be working at a store and deserve protection from the unmasked too. Very flawed belief system. But mostly I think: "The 90s called, they want their ideology back". *Checks calandar* oh hmm it's the year 2020.
iris lilies
5-26-20, 3:46pm
To me, an obvious libertarian response to “but what about speed laws” is (without doing any Googling) is that most roads are owned by a government entity. The owner gets to make the rules. In the case of roads, the government makes these decisions for the good of all where one size fits all in their attempt to serve the public which they’re paid to do.
Granted, there is also an element of the government doing its job of Protecting citizens here. And protecting the healthcare system in fewer/less severe car crashes.
There is of course no purely libertarian practical response to our world, its a philosophical Set of ideas.Immediately putting practical consequences on her behavior is dangerous I think because well those predictions don’t always come true.
I’m surprised by the number of people who think the government is the only one who can make any rules in the mask game. An owner of a business, a piece of land, a park, a public gathering event, may and do make rules as to how participants must behave. Generally speaking, participants don’t need to patronize businesses, go to the parks, attend the public events, etc. It’s their choice to do so.
These silly mask wars and they are silly, are taking place all over the Internet because that’s all people can talk about in their limited world, what they observe one out and about. Our Next door discourse has a heated debate about owners of the Asian food store requiring that customers put on a mask in their store and escorting them out if no mask. Cool. His store, his rules.
iris lilies
5-26-20, 3:49pm
sometimes libertarians might consider the store owners, but never employees who might just be working at a store and deserve protection from the unmasked too. Very flawed belief system. But mostly I think: "The 90s called, they want their ideology back". *Checks calandar* oh hmm it's the year 2020.
Oh no, I think it’s a very timely topic, that of government overreach, and as Rand Paul put in his email to me today, here Americans are quacking on about this dumbass shit when Congress just upped their continued ability to spy on citizens.
Way to go Americans, focus on the things that matter. NOT.
I do not like masks and I do not think they should be mandated. I doubt their efficacy. I voted for Hillary Clinton and I hope to vote for Howie Hawkins this year. I do not like Trump but occasionally I agree with him on a policy issue. For instance, I do agree that we cannot let the cure for covid be worse than the disease. If this turns into an incurable virus like HIV - as WHO has said may be the case - I am sure there are alarmists who would say we need to keep our economy shut down for decades so we don't get new waves of the virus.
rosarugosa
5-26-20, 6:20pm
jp, glad to see your thread bringing out this kind of discourse. Good choice.
:laff::laff::laff:
rosarugosa
5-26-20, 6:21pm
I do not like masks and I do not think they should be mandated. I doubt their efficacy.
Really???
frugal-one
5-26-20, 7:18pm
To me, an obvious libertarian response to “but what about speed laws” is (without doing any Googling) is that most roads are owned by a government entity. The owner gets to make the rules. In the case of roads, the government makes these decisions for the good of all where one size fits all in their attempt to serve the public which they’re paid to do.
Granted, there is also an element of the government doing its job of Protecting citizens here. And protecting the healthcare system in fewer/less severe car crashes.
There is of course no purely libertarian practical response to our world, its a philosophical Set of ideas.Immediately putting practical consequences on her behavior is dangerous I think because well those predictions don’t always come true.
I’m surprised by the number of people who think the government is the only one who can make any rules in the mask game. An owner of a business, a piece of land, a park, a public gathering event, may and do make rules as to how participants must behave. Generally speaking, participants don’t need to patronize businesses, go to the parks, attend the public events, etc. It’s their choice to do so.
These silly mask wars and they are silly, are taking place all over the Internet because that’s all people can talk about in their limited world, what they observe one out and about. Our Next door discourse has a heated debate about owners of the Asian food store requiring that customers put on a mask in their store and escorting them out if no mask. Cool. His store, his rules.
DH had to go to the eye doc today. Guy ahead of him did not bring a mask. They told him to leave. He said he thought they would provide it. Said they ran out 2 days ago and told him to bring his own. He didn't, so he had to leave.
He said he thought they would provide it. Said they ran out 2 days ago and told him to bring his own. He didn't, so he had to leave.
My local restaurants don't provide shirts or shoes to patrons either. I have seen places that keep some men's jackets and ties handy for loan however.
iris lilies
5-26-20, 7:54pm
DH had to go to the eye doc today. Guy ahead of him did not bring a mask. They told him to leave. He said he thought they would provide it. Said they ran out 2 days ago and told him to bring his own. He didn't, so he had to leave.
DH goes to the eye doctor tomorrow for a surgery follow up. He will take a mask with him.
Please remember that we still don’t know immunity stays with us for the long term.
As of yet, immunity has not been established. There is a great deal of evidence that those with antibodies, then thinking they are immune, are once again testing positive.
We don't know enough.
DH had to go to the eye doc today. Guy ahead of him did not bring a mask. They told him to leave. He said he thought they would provide it. Said they ran out 2 days ago and told him to bring his own. He didn't, so he had to leave.
Sigh.............good for them!
Really???
Yes, it is true I don't like masks, but there are people who do. My 79 year old mother went to 5 different stores today. The mask is her license to not socially distance. Or should I say her license to kill (herself)? She has underlying conditions too. Believe me, she is loving the whole mask orthodoxy. She can do what she wants with the perfect excuse "but I wore a mask."
Teacher Terry
5-26-20, 8:32pm
Thankfully I only know one person acting like your mom.
She can do what she wants with the perfect excuse "but I wore a mask."
Then her understanding of science is quite precious.
frugal-one
5-26-20, 8:43pm
Yes, it is true I don't like masks, but there are people who do. My 79 year old mother went to 5 different stores today. The mask is her license to not socially distance. Or should I say her license to kill (herself)? She has underlying conditions too. Believe me, she is loving the whole mask orthodoxy. She can do what she wants with the perfect excuse "but I wore a mask."
Look back and see how many time you posted this same information. Having senior moments???
Look back and see how many time you posted this same information. Having senior moments???
This is new information. She has really picked up the shopping pace, which you will see if you read my previous posts.
frugal-one
5-26-20, 8:50pm
This is new information. She has really picked up the shopping pace, which you will see if you read my previous posts.
Time to move on to other topics. Your mother is going to do what she wants to do.
Teacher Terry
5-26-20, 8:59pm
We certainly can’t control others. Waste of time trying.
Yes, it is true I don't like masks, but there are people who do. My 79 year old mother went to 5 different stores today. The mask is her license to not socially distance. Or should I say her license to kill (herself)? She has underlying conditions too. Believe me, she is loving the whole mask orthodoxy. She can do what she wants with the perfect excuse "but I wore a mask."
I hope for your mother's sake that most everyone else is also wearing a mask. It's so frustrating watching a few of the people I care deeply about do things that seem obviously unsafe. I can't even imagine how much worse I would be feeling if one of those people was my parent. I've stopped asking SO about my MIL because the responses stress me out. She lives with two of her daughters who can't work from home (one works at Costco) and the household routinely socializes with third daughter and family, (including SO's 22 year old nephew), who live a couple miles away. SO's nephew isn't taking this terribly seriously and since he's in MIL's orbit she's at risk. I just hope that nephew's mom still has enough control over nephew to keep him from doing stupid crap like going to Lake of the Ozarks (they live in St Louis) this past weekend.
Time to move on to other topics. Your mother is going to do what she wants to do.
I agree that Yppej can't control her mother's actions. And I also agree that Yppej makes it tough for others to have empathy for her situation by taking a somewhat combative posture from time to time. But I still hope that Yppej's mother gets through this without getting infected and I will feel terribly sad for Yppej if things don't work out well for her mom. The heartbreak of a dead parent is not made any less heartbreaky if it was due to irresponsible actions by that parent.
My nearly-80-year-old mother is a nurse.
She wrote some of the AORN procedure manuals.
She spent some of her career doing parasitology and infectious disease work in Not Good Places.
She is currently at-risk, not only because of her age, but because of a medical condition they are trying to work on, but Covid-19 has delayed the efforts.
She won't let anyone onto her porch. She's having all of her supplies delivered. I see her a couple times a week - I stay downwind, on the beach, about 20 feet away. She wears PPE as-needed. First week of this, she borrowed back from me the M1 Carbine grandpa brought back from the war, to keep people off her d*amned porch.
Be like Mom.
As of yet, immunity has not been established. There is a great deal of evidence that those with antibodies, then thinking they are immune, are once again testing positive.
We don't know enough.
Antibody tests are problematic. Sizeable false positive rates.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antibody-tests-guidelines.html
Be like Mom.
Your Mom is my hero! Spit and vinegar-isn't that what they said back in the 50/60s?
I haven't kept all my journals over the years but I have no doubt I've read her articles. What a wonderful legacy.
Antibody tests are problematic. Sizeable false positive rates.
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/lab/resources/antibody-tests-guidelines.html
Yes, I've been following this as well. I am concerned about all the people assuming they are safe and can go back to life as normal and how will they affect the population?
I hope for your mother's sake that most everyone else is also wearing a mask. It's so frustrating watching a few of the people I care deeply about do things that seem obviously unsafe. I can't even imagine how much worse I would be feeling if one of those people was my parent. I've stopped asking SO about my MIL because the responses stress me out. She lives with two of her daughters who can't work from home (one works at Costco) and the household routinely socializes with third daughter and family, (including SO's 22 year old nephew), who live a couple miles away. SO's nephew isn't taking this terribly seriously and since he's in MIL's orbit she's at risk. I just hope that nephew's mom still has enough control over nephew to keep him from doing stupid crap like going to Lake of the Ozarks (they live in St Louis) this past weekend.
I have a special needs grandson who spends every other week with us. His parents work and we grandparents (both sets) share the workweek responsibility for him. It's a choice we've made and we have no regrets. Some might think we're just cavalierly allowing a youngster to possibly infect us, but that's not really the case.
We're also heading west for a good part of the summer beginning in two weeks. We won't be going to Lake of the Ozarks but we will be seeing all the sights in South Dakota, Wyoming, maybe Montana, definitely Utah, a little bit of Arizona and New Mexico, Colorado and a quick drive through of Kansas, Missouri, Illinois and Indiana.
I shudder to think of what many will say after hearing that but I think we'll prove to be no greater threat to those areas than we are to ours, nor will those areas likely harm us as long as we maintain the same diligence we do at home. My only fear is accidentally wandering into areas such as Michigan where people are not allowed to travel in certain areas for non-essential reasons. I'm hoping if that becomes a problem we can assert that we travel with our home so WTF?
I have a special needs grandson who spends every other week with us. His parents work and we grandparents (both sets) share the workweek responsibility for him. It's a choice we've made and we have no regrets. Some might think we're just cavalierly allowing a youngster to possibly infect us, but that's not really the case.
You're a smart fellow, and I'm confident you are being prudent, and have formed a "contagion group" with those you need to interact with. Nothing wrong with that.
iris lilies
5-26-20, 10:26pm
I’ve been thinking the past week that RV sales and rentals must be through the roof for the summer. It’s not entirely attractive to me for a couple of reasons, but I can see it being attractive for many. It looks like we will not be without a dog for the summer or else I might – just might —consider RV rental for a road trip.
As far as my friend who tested positive for COVID-19: in her very specific case, one person, I don’t see any problem with assuming she had COVID-19 because I bet she did. Given her symptoms, her date of onset, the length of illness, and her explanation of where she got it – it seems very likely she had it in February.
If she is immune and for how long is a separate question.That’s not a question I have, and it doesn’t need to be answered.
I had been thinking of doing The Great American Roadtrip in an RV or van this summer, but I'm concerned about the ability to travel freely, and the reception I might receive from the locals.
I have a special needs grandson who spends every other week with us. His parents work and we grandparents (both sets) share the workweek responsibility for him. It's a choice we've made and we have no regrets. Some might think we're just cavalierly allowing a youngster to possibly infect us, but that's not really the case.
We're also heading west for a good part of the summer beginning in two weeks. We won't be going to Lake of the Ozarks but we will be seeing all the sights in South Dakota, Wyoming, maybe Montana, definitely Utah, a little bit of Arizona and New Mexico, Colorado and a quick drive through of Kansas, Missouri, Illinois and Indiana.
I shudder to think of what many will say after hearing that but I think we'll prove to be no greater threat to those areas than we are to ours, nor will those areas likely harm us as long as we maintain the same diligence we do at home. My only fear is accidentally wandering into areas such as Michigan where people are not allowed to travel in certain areas for non-essential reasons. I'm hoping if that becomes a problem we can assert that we travel with our home so WTF?
What are you even trying to say? And how does it relate to my concern about my MIL? I feel like you and bae are on planet X and i'M on some different planet. In case it wasn't clear my worry about my MIL was that her nephew was ignoring best practices on preventing covid infection. Maybe she needs to get a damn gun and shoot her nephew? Help me understand.
Pretty sure my Mom would shoot me if I came up on the porch. Or maybe bayonet me, I got her the old-school bayonet, and it is almost 3 feet long.
What are you even trying to say? ...............Help me understand.
Nothing really other than I think it's possible to lead a fairly normal life during this pandemic without putting others at great risk and that not every person attempting to do so is an irresponsible jerk.
iris lilies
5-28-20, 8:35pm
Here’s a chance for our educators on mask wearing to weigh in according to “the science” of the CDC.
The situation: Someone on Nextdoor is complaining that the pharmacy staff at my grocery store are not wearing masks. This pharmacy, inside the store, has a plexiglass screen in front of anyone who interacts with the general public.
A volley of voices are castigating pharmacy staff.
I looked up CDC recommendations for pharmacy staff. Link is below. What do you say about our pharmacy staff at my grocery Store, right or wrong?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/pharmacies.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/pharmacies.html)
Here’s a chance for our educators on mask wearing to weigh in according to “the science” of the CDC.
The situation: Someone on Nextdoor is complaining that the pharmacy staff at my grocery store are not wearing masks. This pharmacy, inside the store, has a plexiglass screen in front of anyone who interacts with the general public.
A volley of voices are castigating pharmacy staff.
I looked up CDC recommendations for pharmacy staff. Link is below. What do you say about our pharmacy staff at my grocery Store, right or wrong?
https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/pharmacies.html (https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/hcp/pharmacies.html)
I am disappointed that they are not wearing masks. They are part of the healthcare team and the CDC says we should all be wearing a mask. The plexiglass shield is not 100% barrier as meds need to be passed and payment received. Not to mention that there is not plexiglass between them and all the product they touch in the pharmacy prepping scripts for customers.
Teacher Terry
5-28-20, 10:25pm
Ours are wearing masks. Between the masks and plexiglass I am having trouble hearing. I didn’t realize how much we depend on reading lips. The younger woman waiting on me said she is having the same problem and we laughed about it.
iris lilies
5-29-20, 12:19am
I am disappointed that they are not wearing masks. They are part of the healthcare team and the CDC says we should all be wearing a mask. The plexiglass shield is not 100% barrier as meds need to be passed and payment received. Not to mention that there is not plexiglass between them and all the product they touch in the pharmacy prepping scripts for customers.
On Nextdoor an anti-mask person took one of the last paragraphs of the CDC guidelines and twisted it around to say they need not wear masks. I had to read the thing three times before I figured out guidelines were talking about the specific situation where a pharmacist is close up within inches and treating a patient, and in that case they must use a respirator or a full PPE. There is a sentence in the last paragraph saying pharm staff should not use a cloth mask, but that means Do not use a cloth mask in place of PPE or respirator.
Also, I have to assume that the CDC means by “facemask “a proper PPE face mask and when they say “cloth mask” they do not mean PPE equipment.
"Pharmacists and pharmacy technicians should always wear a facemask while they are in the pharmacy for source control."
iris lilies
5-29-20, 12:43am
"Pharmacists and pharmacy technicians should always wear a facemask while they are in the pharmacy for source control."
Yes, that part was clearly stated. The Nextdoor Someone twisted a paragraph Near the end to make it sound as though it was in conflict with this clearly stated directive.I didn’t understand that there’s someone was not discussing these directives in good faith, so I thought that last paragraph appeared to be in conflict until I read it carefully.
Is “source control” a member of the public in this context?Or the mask wearer? Maybe both maybe it doesn’t matter.
Yes, that part was clearly stated. The Nextdoor Someone twisted a paragraph Near the end to make it sound as though it was in conflict with this clearly stated directive.I didn’t understand that there’s someone was not discussing these directives in good faith, so I thought that last paragraph appeared to be in conflict until I read it carefully.
Is “source control” a member of the public in this context?Or the mask wearer? Maybe both maybe it doesn’t matter.
Source control is the humanoid wearing the mask. Anyone is a potential source of Covid. In this case, they are talking about the pharmacy worker behind the plexiglas, who is tasked with wearing a mask for source control.
iris lilies
5-29-20, 11:17am
Source control is the humanoid wearing the mask. Anyone is a potential source of Covid. In this case, they are talking about the pharmacy worker behind the plexiglas, who is tasked with wearing a mask for source control.thanks!
iris lilies
7-31-23, 11:19pm
Indeed. Because at least one of our members won’t want to hear science that doesn’t comport with their hatred of masks. Bummer for them.
Are you still a big fan of Dr Campbell? In his most recent video he talks about a peer reviewed independent study from Europe that was done very thoroughly and found a very high rate of myocarditis from Covid vaccine. Maybe myocarditis is not serious in most cases, but who here would voluntarily sign up for that?
I remember one of the vaccine leery physicians on Joe Rogan explaining more than a year ago, maybe it was two years ago, that the myocarditis suspected as tied to Covid vaccine may not be terribly serious in the average person, but in professional athletes who are stressing their bodies to the max, it can kill.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cd_RTf_ForA&t=83s&pp=ygUQRHIgam9obiBjYW1wYmVsbA%3D%3D
Teacher Terry
8-1-23, 10:24am
That’s interesting IL. Personally I had the first vaccine and 2 boosters and every one of them made me very sick in bed for 4 days. The extreme chills were awful. Now that the newer variants are milder I am done with the covid vaccine.
iris lilies
8-1-23, 11:18am
My brother who works in the health field, but no longer in direct patient care, had a heart incident immediately following the last booster, so he will not be taking any more boosters.
I had all of them, is it 4? And did not experience anything other than a slightly sore arm on one occasion.
We all react to these things differently, and, of course the vaccines themselves are different. But it is not wise of the government to mandate these vaccines.
Joe Biden’ vaccine mandates were struck down by the Supreme Court. It’s not only illegal, but it’s dangerous for the populace. Just another far reaching illegal directive of President Biden, one of many.
I'm a minimalist in this area. I don't believe in mandating any medical procedure--talk about a slippery slope.
I had one dose of J&J, and that's enough. I didn't need that, as it turns out.
iris lilies
8-1-23, 1:39pm
I'm a minimalist in this area. I don't believe in mandating any medical procedure--talk about a slippery slope.
I had one dose of J&J, and that's enough. I didn't need that, as it turns out.
childhood vaccines? That is where the slippery slope starts.
All states have some sort of requirement for childhood vaccines tied to attending schools, but the reach of the laws vary from state to state. Exemptions vary from state to state. In California, the only exemption allowed is medical, and doctors who grant many of those are scrutinized by the state health department. If you have a religious or philosophical objection to a vaccine, you are out of luck in California.
I found this chart of state vaccine requirements for children Interesting.
Now I am not an anti-vaxer and certainly if I had children they would be vaccinated unless medical issues indicated otherwise.
https://www.findlaw.com/healthcare/patient-rights/vaccine-exemption-laws-by-state.html
I'm glad that's something I didn't have to deal with. I'm really not a fan of unnecessary medical interventions.
Are you still a big fan of Dr Campbell? In his most recent video he talks about a peer reviewed independent study from Europe that was done very thoroughly and found a very high rate of myocarditis from Covid vaccine. Maybe myocarditis is not serious in most cases, but who here would voluntarily sign up for that?
I remember one of the vaccine leery physicians on Joe Rogan explaining more than a year ago, maybe it was two years ago, that the myocarditis suspected as tied to Covid vaccine may not be terribly serious in the average person, but in professional athletes who are stressing their bodies to the max, it can kill.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=cd_RTf_ForA&t=83s&pp=ygUQRHIgam9obiBjYW1wYmVsbA%3D%3D
I do still follow him. And yes, I saw that video last week. I agree that it's a concern but I also noted that people's numbers return to normal fairly quickly and that no one suffered an adverse event as a result. As such I will take the new version of the vaccine when it comes out this fall since I view the risks of severe covid to be worse than the risk of myocarditis from the vaccine. Since I still haven't had covid, at least as far as I know, I have no idea what sort of experience it would be for me. I will continue to do things like get vaccinated yearly and wear masks in crowded indoor spaces like airplanes and on transit and try to maintain my covid virginity as long as possible. That won't likely last forever since I do go to meetings for work and to restaurants with people for work, etc, but I'd rather keep the odds in my favor as much as possible without shutting my life down completely.
That’s interesting IL. Personally I had the first vaccine and 2 boosters and every one of them made me very sick in bed for 4 days. The extreme chills were awful. Now that the newer variants are milder I am done with the covid vaccine.
That sounds dreadful. The only one that gave me a crap reaction was the first moderna which I got as a booster after the initial J&J. But that reaction was only 24 hours.
The only really unpleasant vaccine reactions I've ever had were from both doses of shingrix. 24 hours of seriously feeling awful. The first one caught me off guard. I'd gotten it early in the morning and went to work. By 10 am I called my boss (he was down in LA) and was like "I have to go home. I feel terrible." 101 degree fever. The second one I scheduled on a friday afternoon on the way home from work and then spent the next 24 hours in bed but by Saturday evening I was fine. Thankfully they believe that the shingles vaccine is forever so hopefully I won't have to go through that ever again.
iris lilies
8-1-23, 10:07pm
That sounds dreadful. The only one that gave me a crap reaction was the first moderna which I got as a booster after the initial J&J. But that reaction was only 24 hours.
The only really unpleasant vaccine reactions I've ever had were from both doses of shingrix. 24 hours of seriously feeling awful. The first one caught me off guard. I'd gotten it early in the morning and went to work. By 10 am I called my boss (he was down in LA) and was like "I have to go home. I feel terrible." 101 degree fever. The second one I scheduled on a friday afternoon on the way home from work and then spent the next 24 hours in bed but by Saturday evening I was fine. Thankfully they believe that the shingles vaccine is forever so hopefully I won't have to go through that ever again.
I don’t know about that shingles protection lasting forever. Dr. Google’s headlines suggest immunity lasts seven years and then…?
I don’t know about that shingles protection lasting forever. Dr. Google’s headlines suggest immunity lasts seven years and then…?
Well shoot. That’s not what the googles were saying 4 years ago. I suppose if I need a booster I’ll get one. A day of feeling like crap would be better than months of debilitating pain like most everyone I know who has had shingles went through.
Well shoot. That’s not what the googles were saying 4 years ago. If nothing else, it's a good reminder that science is never settled and hardly ever a good basis for bullying and demeaning others.
As a matter of fact, science often doesn't agree with itself on subjects such as this. The CDC says the shingles vaccine provides protection for 7 years without qualifiers, yet the Cleveland Clinic says it may only provide protection for 4 years if you're older (70 or above). https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/22996-shingles-vaccine
I'm now on the cusp of 70 and received both doses of the vaccine several years ago upon recommendation of my PC physician who told me it would provide lifetime protection. I wonder if it's still active?
If nothing else, it's a good reminder that science is never settled and hardly ever a good basis for bullying and demeaning others.
As a matter of fact, science often doesn't agree with itself on subjects such as this. The CDC says the shingles vaccine provides protection for 7 years without qualifiers, yet the Cleveland Clinic says it may only provide protection for 4 years if you're older (70 or above). https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/22996-shingles-vaccine
I'm now on the cusp of 70 and received both doses of the vaccine several years ago upon recommendation of my PC physician who told me it would provide lifetime protection. I wonder if it's still active?
Thanks dad. I’ll try to keep that in mind next time I’m interacting with losers who think that the months they spent learning about virology made them experts. But most of them have moved on to experts in renewable energy so it may not be an issue.
If nothing else, it's a good reminder that science is never settled and hardly ever a good basis for bullying and demeaning others.
As a matter of fact, science often doesn't agree with itself on subjects such as this. The CDC says the shingles vaccine provides protection for 7 years without qualifiers, yet the Cleveland Clinic says it may only provide protection for 4 years if you're older (70 or above). https://my.clevelandclinic.org/health/treatments/22996-shingles-vaccine
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“There is no such thing as consensus science. If it’s consensus, it isn’t science. If it’s science, it isn’t consensus. Period.”—Michael Crichton
"Science advances one funeral at a time."--Max Planck
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