View Full Version : Defunding the police.....
gimmethesimplelife
6-5-20, 8:38am
Absolutely brilliant! I had not heard much of this idea until very recently....the focus of our activism in the 85006 has mostly been financial retaliation and trying to get law breaking officers behind bars where they belong.
This defunding sounds brilliant as it could be phased in over time and also used as a weapon against the police. Not only that, but what issues police are expected to deal with could be scaled back. Rob
iris lilies
6-5-20, 8:59am
I just shake my head at all of the do-gooders who rail about Low-level criminals spending time in jail.
Here in St. Louis, it doesn’t happen. Has to be a pretty serious crime against persons before our prosecutor mans up to prosecute. Rape, murder, the high-level assaults – those get her attention.
Rob would like St. Louis because we are essentially living in a largely “defunded “ Police situation. Anything they do has no teeth. Pull a criminal off the street charge him, and he’s back on the street that afternoon. And the thugs know that.
Why is it brilliant, Rob? So if someone breaks into your house, you are supposed to just accept whatever they choose to do, with no recourse? So there's no one to call when a vulnerable woman is leaving work and is followed? No one to call when domestic violence occurs?
What is brilliant about this?
They didn't have police in the Old West, either. You want the gangs to rule, the thugs?
Teacher Terry
6-5-20, 3:07pm
On Facebook someone suggested that all police officers have BA degrees in social work as that might temper their behavior. No police at all is a bad idea.
I think the social work idea is a very good one.
I think those calling for the extreme cuts to police budgets would sooner or later be calling for the funding to be increased. Regardless of what you do with increasing health care funding, job training, improving education, etc., the effects aren't going to show right away. It's going to take a while. Do people think that even with reformed police departments and much increased funding into black neighborhoods, the gangs will immediately stop their bad ways?
In Chicago, many more black men are killed by other black men, than by cops.
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In Chicago, many more black men are killed by other black men, than by cops.
Criminal behavior is traditionally committed by criminals. Publicly funded peace officers are supposed to be better than that. Much better.
gimmethesimplelife
6-5-20, 6:49pm
Why is it brilliant, Rob? So if someone breaks into your house, you are supposed to just accept whatever they choose to do, with no recourse? So there's no one to call when a vulnerable woman is leaving work and is followed? No one to call when domestic violence occurs?
What is brilliant about this?
They didn't have police in the Old West, either. You want the gangs to rule, the thugs?What's brilliant? It's a way to spare human lives from these sociopaths that is long, long, long overdue. About someone breaking into my house - I would not call police, that would likely end out escalating things and I could well end out being a murder victim courtesy of the Phoenix PD. I am a human being, I deserve better than to be vulnerable to these sociopaths 24/7/365.
Defunding is a way to retaliate at the source by starving the beast.....and saving lives. Rob
How many murders were there in Phoenix last year? How many were from the police?
I googled it for you, in 2019 there were over 100 murders in Phoenix. Now how many were from the police, I’m sure you would keep track.
One thing that hasn't been discussed here is nepotism and cronyism on the police force. For instance, without a connection it is near impossible to get a job with the Massachusetts State Police. This leads to a less diverse workforce since people are hiring their relatives and buddies who tend to be of the same white race. It also leads to fear of reporting your relatives and buddies for wrongdoing whether it be fake overtime in my state or police brutality elsewhere. Whenever I see the feel good stories on the news about third or fourth generation officer I cringe. It should be a meritocracy. I also like the idea of a police chief in New Hampshire being interviewed today who said psychological testing is key to weeding out applicants ill suited to the job. I'm afraid in many places the testing is who do you know who already works here?
Not to mention if you are related to or friends with a cop your traffic tickets all get fixed, but if you're not you can get shot dead over a minor traffic violation.
Teacher Terry
6-5-20, 9:45pm
In Buffalo the cops knocked down a 75 year old man and walked past while his head is bleeding. He is in serious condition in a hospital. Ugh!
One idea I like is that lawsuit settlement costs come out of the police budgets. Currently they are taxpayer funded. So the public pays the public when the police are fined.
Hope you all can read this. We are not Chicago but homicides are starting to ramp back up. In our city, it is mostly young black men dying in shootings. We have had children harmed by random bullets.
Go ahead and reduce police funding. But what do you tell the crying family when they are pleading for help and no one is held accountable for the murder?
Sweetana is this gang violence? If so is it caused by gang wars over the illegal drug trade? What would happen if we decriminalized the drugs and stopped the war on drugs? Some communities in my state are working to give preference to those most affected by the war on drugs in terms of licenses, locations, and jobs in the legal marijuana industry.
ETA Let's not forget the government's complicity. They introduced crack cocaine into this country to fund an illegal war in Central America and were in bed with numerous drug lords such as Noriega, in his case until he showed too much independence. It didn't matter that lots of black people had their lives devastated. Talk about treating not arresting addicts didn't start until the opioid epidemic hit white kids, and even now there are huge racial disparities in the way the criminal justice system treats drug possession. One book that really opened my eyes regarding crime in the US was The New Jim Crow.
Hope you all can read this. We are not Chicago but homicides are starting to ramp back up. In our city, it is mostly young black men dying in shootings. We have had children harmed by random bullets.
Go ahead and reduce police funding. But what do you tell the crying family when they are pleading for help and no one is held accountable for the murder?
To some, those murders don’t matter at all because they were committed by criminals. Murders apparently only count when they’re committed by cops and/or white folk. No one seems to get outraged much about black on black murder, outside of the immediate families or neighborhood groups.
Those who blocked Yppej just missed an excellent post.
No doubt if we replace the cops with restorative justice committees and sensitivity trainers other groups will move in to fill the void. There is a long tradition of selling protection in most of our larger cities. Or perhaps nonprofit community organizations will form vigilance committees to maintain order on an ad hoc basis.
iris lilies
6-6-20, 10:17am
One thing that hasn't been discussed here is nepotism and cronyism on the police force. For instance, without a connection it is near impossible to get a job with the Massachusetts State Police. This leads to a less diverse workforce since people are hiring their relatives and buddies who tend to be of the same white race. It also leads to fear of reporting your relatives and buddies for wrongdoing whether it be fake overtime in my state or police brutality elsewhere. Whenever I see the feel good stories on the news about third or fourth generation officer I cringe. It should be a meritocracy. I also like the idea of a police chief in New Hampshire being interviewed today who said psychological testing is key to weeding out applicants ill suited to the job. I'm afraid in many places the testing is who do you know who already works here?
Not to mention if you are related to or friends with a cop your traffic tickets all get fixed, but if you're not you can get shot dead over a minor traffic violation.
It has always been difficult to get onto the State Highway Patrol force in every state where I have lived.
It is not hard to get onto a city police force, assuming the candidate meets criteria. Our city forces are decimated, we cannot fill positions.
Sure, better psychological testing would be good. That is not a perfect tool. It up already is performed anyway. And I think based on what we see walking around in our fellow citizenry I think it’s pretty clear that psychological tools are limited at best.
early morning
6-6-20, 12:12pm
Psych testing should not just be a screening tool in initial interviews, but should be built into all training exercises. Actions/reactions to complex training scenarios should be closely tracked and monitored, both for new officers and in refresher training for current officers. People change over time, based on experiences both good and bad. Good cops can become bad ones; poor cops could become good, with good training and mentoring.
I haven't worked much with cops, but with guards/officers in juvenile detention and corrections. I've seen really good people corrupted, and some that started off badly becoming stellar workers with troubled youth. Employing/training/retaining good officers takes a lot of oversight and commitment on the part of administration, from what I've seen. However, that's only my experience in my particular situation.
Teacher Terry
6-6-20, 12:14pm
The sad truth is that there have always been cities where you avoid even driving through certain neighborhoods if you value your life. When I went to graduate school in Milwaukee in the late 80’s I had to do that. I was worried about my car breaking down. 2 days a week I went from 8am to 10pm and even in summer with no A/c would keep my windows mostly up. People live in those neighborhoods and innocents get killed all the time. No clue how to fix it.
TT, we have areas like that. Not too long ago a mother and her daughter were driving home and shots rang out from a large group of young people gathered in a parking lot. Daughter was killed. Wrong place, wrong time. We do not go out at night and I know where not to drive. We have one street that should be renamed murder road.
Teacher Terry
6-6-20, 3:37pm
Sweet, that’s sad that you cannot go out at night. I don’t want to deal with that in my old age. We have no racial issues here. If I lived in the Midwest I would be like my friends and live where it’s safe.
I'm hearing a lot of fear. Instead of avoidance I wonder what would happen if our society followed 1 John 4:18 "Perfect love casts out fear", if instead if being afraid of certain segments of our population we got to know them as human beings not menaces to society.
iris lilies
6-6-20, 6:17pm
Ok jeppy, you first. Wade into North St. Louis at night for many nights. Let us know how that works for you.
Arent you the one who said you were afraid to hike trails during the day on weekends? Am I remembering that right?
Ok jeppy, you first. Wade into North St. Louis at night for many nights. Let us know how that works for you.
Arent you the one who said you were afraid to hike trails during the day on weekends? Am I remembering that right?
Yes, you could be preyed on by a serial killer waiting in ambush in the woods. I feel safer around lots of people. I have not been to North St. Louis but East St. Louis looked rough to me when I was there years ago youngster in tow.
Yes, you could be preyed on by a serial killer waiting in ambush in the woods.
I suspect your odds of death are higher from auto accidents while driving to the trailhead....
Ok jeppy, you first. Wade into North St. Louis at night for many nights. Let us know how that works for you.
Arent you the one who said you were afraid to hike trails during the day on weekends? Am I remembering that right?
I worked for a highway contractor. North St. Louis was the only place we were not required to work at night. I’m guessing the state people didn’t want to be out there either. Our crews still had a few stories to tell. Only one body was found when they showed up for work, still plenty of hookers and drug dealers around even during the day.
As bae points out, how safe we claim to feel and the actual risk we assume can be very different things.
We can deplore Florida beach goers or Lansing protestors as reckless Typhoid Marys, but remain silent about the Minnesota marchers and/or rioters.
Cops quelling riots is brutal escalation. In fact, we are invited to take seriously the idea we can dispense with the police entirely. Using federal troops like Los Angeles in 1992 or Little Rock in 1957 is considered a fascist coup, although the people being dispossessed might disagree. Look at the response to Tom Cotton’s recent NYT lapse into diversity of opinion on the topic, and the scramble to “further fact-check” it away.
It’s more about feelings and supporting narratives at this point. We’re getting the stories about shark attacks and not the bee stings.
The cases of murders on the Appalachian Trail go back to 1990 but I have never forgotten them. Are there greater risks in life than hiking? Undoubtedly, but I still don't like hiking alone. When I retire I'd like to get a dog again, as I will then have time for it and long walks with it.
There are good reasons for not hiking alone, aside from the occasional murder. Injury or sudden illness on the trail, among others. Then there are a not-insignificant number of people who just disappear from parks and trails every year (which is a fascination of mine).
As bae points out, how safe we claim to feel and the actual risk we assume can be very different things.
We can deplore Florida beach goers or Lansing protestors as reckless Typhoid Marys, but remain silent about the Minnesota marchers and/or rioters.
Cops quelling riots is brutal escalation. In fact, we are invited to take seriously the idea we can dispense with the police entirely. Using federal troops like Los Angeles in 1992 or Little Rock in 1957 is considered a fascist coup, although the people being dispossessed might disagree. Look at the response to Tom Cotton’s recent NYT lapse into diversity of opinion on the topic, and the scramble to “further fact-check” it away.
It’s more about feelings and supporting narratives at this point. We’re getting the stories about shark attacks and not the bee stings.
Both bolded are inaccurate. Have you not been watching the news where it SHOWS pictures of how the police are handling things? Also, there is much talk about the people risking their lives by going out to protest. You just don't want to hear it. I know you were in law enforcement, as was I, albeit different capacities. I have been social distancing and am staying home even more since all the marches and protests. However, come November, I will vote even if there are hordes of people near me. This nonsense has to stop.
Gonna say it: I wish there was a street cop on this forum.
https://komonews.com/news/local/portland-police-share-photo-of-items-thrown-at-officers-during-protests (https://komonews.com/news/local/portland-police-share-photo-of-items-thrown-at-officers-during-protests)
Please read the entire story.
Coming from a cop's kid.
To the people holding up unarmed police in England as a model, take a look at this story out of England where protestors threw a motorized bike at horse, causing it to bolt and throw rider, who was seriously injured. Another story on this said horse was injured to, as it ran into a pole.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8396057/Female-police-officer-recovering-falling-horse-Black-Lives-Matter-protest.html
I think this is really sh@@ty.
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