View Full Version : What are you doing to prepare for old age? Resiliency habits.
As I'm watching my mother decline with age as well as dementia, its made me consider my own mortality and that I might need assistance in the future. Both my mother as well as my deceased mother in law have clung to old ways and have stubbornly resisted any sort of change, which is placing a larger burden on them as well as their kids. My mother in particular has always been all about appearances, and being perfect so she won't change anything that might imply a change in status (eg moving from her too big/too complicated house into an apartment because apartments are for "poor people").
It seems to me that the habits you encourage during middle age helps or hinders the way you deal with old age. My dad was always curious and engaged with the world, and not afraid to look silly trying new things. He was quite with it until his last days. My mother has refused to learn anything new, won't even look at a computer, doesn't understand much of the world and it makes it so hard to see her struggle with even simple things (like using a TV remote). The dementia has lowered her already low frustration level (she only eats ready to go food, as heating food or opening a can is a struggle).
I've always examined how and why I do things, and figured out how to streamline so that I don't use brain power repetitively on the same tasks -like using lists for everything. This is a bit of effort to start up, but saves time and mental energy going forward. I use habits a lot so that I don't really have to think about doing the right thing. I've also made it a habit to regular go through things and purge items. I keep asking myself does this habit/thing/routine continue to serve me on a regular basis.
What other things do you do/see other people do that contribute to a resilient old age?
iris lilies
6-21-20, 8:57am
I have several friends and acquntainces in their 80s. The ones that I think are aging very well are ones that got out of their big giant houses, stayed in their neighborhoods, and sought out smaller simpler places. Those places are not always inexpensive — in one case our friend lives in a condo that’s $325,000 which is really a lot of money for St. Louis. But it’s a very nice condo! And she can afford it. The others bought more modest condos but still very nice. Someone else took their multi story Victorian house and built a master bedroom suite on the first floor so they have an entire living Area on one floor.
I think those who are proactive with their living environment are thinking ahead well to the needs of aging.
The same people are also active in their neighborhood to the extent that they can be. The people we know best in their 80s worked until the Covid thing came around and they both stopped, Although one does dabble in real estate rentals and sales for his condo building.
another friend who just turned 80 dug his heels in to live in his giant Victorian house with his incredible hoards of stuff. Many years ago people helped him with a reverse mortgage because he had never been much of an earner and his partner died unexpectedly, and here he is in this huge Victorian house that he absolutely will not give up ever.
I love my own Victorian house, but I’m glad it was gutted down to the studs when we bought it. There is not the magic of all plaster walls and everything that goes with it, and the reverence I would feel and have to preserve it all doesnt come with our house.
I agree with IL. Engagement in the world around you is critical. Diminished physical condition and mental ability may be part of aging, but letting those muscles atrophy from disuse really pushes old age to set in. Keep moving, even if it's not marathon running and now it's just walking or pool aerobics. Keep trying to fit your brain around new things, whether it's sudokus or a computer language or actually understanding all the terms mentioned in an insurance policy.
And be okay with getting older. Our next-door neighbors moved their washer and dryer to the ground level of their house; neither one of them is good on stairs anymore. They love it. I'm fine with being in bed and asleep before Colbert comes on at night and fine with being up earlier than most of the neighborhood, too. We're both retired now, but DW may choose to do a little consulting (if she does, I'll be her back office, which means some new skills for me in billing, etc.). Or we'll volunteer our time to the tune of several hours a week (probably at different tasks, which will give us more to talk about, too).
Can't slow down. That leads to stopping.
I have lots of longevity on both sides of my family, and what I have seen is that the cognitive decline seems to be an independent variable. I.e. my parents were early computer adapters, my mom used computers in her work very early on, was always up on engaging in her world and community and remaining technologically up to date, until cognitive issues came into her life, and the technology helped her for a long time to retain normal function, but after a while, she could not longer use it--but that was probably after the age of 85, that that stage set in. I don't think she in any way caused dementia by refusing to adapt to her environment; I think she adapted very skillfully until the dementia prevented her from functioning.
As far as resiliency in old age, I think key is a positive attitude. So if you want to remain in your home to age, and they wanted that, make the adaptations you want to make early, and be prepared for the day to come when you can no longer function in your home, either physically or mentally.
But be positive, take life on life's terms, and strike a balance between being aware of your physical and mental functioning and how your environment is changing.
I think destressing and slowing down the emotional pace and insisting on being happy--I think those are the best markers of resiliency. Finding what you love and being true to it.
I also think we in our 60's are looking for some magic prescriptive bullet that will lead us to a pleasant, wise, non-demented old age, and I don't think it exists.
You take what you get, including what your brain is wired to do.
Mom has remained very gracious about what must terrifying changes in her cognition and surroundings. So yeah, I guess I hope for that, the ability to retain my dignity and my positive attitude.
It is interesting to watch how people age. My MIL is an outlier I guess as she resists change of any sort, sits and watches mindless TV all day and refuses to have anything to do with computers. A life-long smoker with a bad heart and multiple surgeries throughout her life, she is still scarily mentally alert at 86. I am concerned that DH will not "age well" as he is already having issues with stairs and walking. He sits too much. We are in a tri-level house which for me now is good exercise but I can see that we need to hurry up on a move before it becomes an issue for one or both of us.
dado potato
6-21-20, 10:47am
Now that I am an "old man", I look forward to becoming an "old, old man".
For actionable ideas, see "Blue Zones Life". I can't say that I have followed all the BZL steps, but I have followed some that work for me. http://www.bluezones.com
Teacher Terry
6-21-20, 10:57am
My mom downsized from a home to apartment 5 years after my dad had a big stroke. They were 64. She was always a early adopter of everything. She had a microwave before we did. At 80 she asked us to teach her to use a computer. We bought her one and she used it until she died just short of 90. One of my grandfathers rode his bike until about 6 months before he died at 80.
I am trying to eat well, I don't take any medications, and I maintain a social network. I keep my brain active with reading, and strive to think for myself instead of mindlessly following the herd. Each year I set aside money for retirement.
happystuff
6-21-20, 2:27pm
My mom downsized from a home to apartment 5 years after my dad had a big stroke. They were 64. She was always a early adopter of everything. She had a microwave before we did. At 80 she asked us to teach her to use a computer. We bought her one and she used it until she died just short of 90. One of my grandfathers rode his bike until about 6 months before he died at 80.
This is nice! They sound like they lived active and happy lives.
Since I have no idea what really constitutes "old age" nor do I know at what age I will die (i.e. the proverbial "hit by a bus". lol), I'm just trying to live every day. I'll work for as long as I have to and after that, for as long as I want. If it were up to me, we would have down-sized a couple years ago, but in the meantime I'm working towards it by down-sizing belongs and wants. I am blessed with a fabulous immediate and extended family. If I need, I know they would be there. If they need, I am there.
I guess I'll leave it at that and just see how things go. LOL.
Teacher Terry
6-21-20, 3:45pm
Happy, both my mom and her dad kept active which was great. My dad had a big stroke at 59 probably because he was a tool grinder in a auto plant before they wore protection. By 54 he couldn’t walk a block and had COPD. He had to retire early. Before that he was active. My grandparents on my dad’s side sat around doing nothing for 40 years and lived in there own until dying at 90.
My grandparents on my dad’s side sat around doing nothing for 40 years and lived in there own until dying at 90.
Yeah, then there's that "genetic lottery" aspect of it. My mom, 86 this year, has far outlived her (only) sister and both parents. And my dad, despite dying at 65, lived far longer than both of his brothers and his father (his mother got to her 80s). A friend of mine and his siblings moved their mother to assisted living two years ago, at the age of 101 (!). I tell him he needs to save up more for his retirement.
iris lilies
6-21-20, 7:23pm
I have lots of longevity on both sides of my family, and what I have seen is that the cognitive decline seems to be an independent variable. I.e. my parents were early computer adapters, my mom used computers in her work very early on, was always up on engaging in her world and community and remaining technologically up to date, until cognitive issues came into her life, and the technology helped her for a long time to retain normal function, but after a while, she could not longer use it--but that was probably after the age of 85, that that stage set in. I don't think she in any way caused dementia by refusing to adapt to her environment; I think she adapted very skillfully until the dementia prevented her from functioning.
As far as resiliency in old age, I think key is a positive attitude. So if you want to remain in your home to age, and they wanted that, make the adaptations you want to make early, and be prepared for the day to come when you can no longer function in your home, either physically or mentally.
But be positive, take life on life's terms, and strike a balance between being aware of your physical and mental functioning and how your environment is changing.
I think destressing and slowing down the emotional pace and insisting on being happy--I think those are the best markers of resiliency. Finding what you love and being true to it.
I also think we in our 60's are looking for some magic prescriptive bullet that will lead us to a pleasant, wise, non-demented old age, and I don't think it exists.
You take what you get, including what your brain is wired to do.
Mom has remained very gracious about what must terrifying changes in her cognition and surroundings. So yeah, I guess I hope for that, the ability to retain my dignity and my positive attitude.
there’s a lot of wisdom in this post.
I have Alzheimer’s pretty rampant in my family so there’s nothing to make me think that I’ll be avoiding it other than Death by heart attack or stroke before then. Has nothing to do with our level of education or the activity of our mind, since a couple of my elderly relatives with dementia were college professors and etc. on that side of the family.
I remember having an odd and interesting conversation about my dog with with Howard Nemerov, two time Poet Laureate of the United States and Pulitzer winner, in our neighborhood Park. He lived across the street.
Just a couple years later I learned he died of Alzheimer’s related health issues and I thought of that conversation. So yeah there was an active mind, didn’t save him from dementia.
But yes, remaining positive, being realistic about your mental and physical limitations but still being engaged in the world is important.
Teacher Terry
6-21-20, 7:47pm
Genetics is much more important than people want to admit. You may not live longer with a healthy lifestyle but you will live better.
We have just moved MIL and her sister into a senior apartment. They have, for at least 25 years, talked about moving into a one-level home, and they never did anything about it. All "those places" were "too small" - their house has (literally) 100 years of stuff in it, basement crammed full of everything that's ever come into the house, and bags and boxes of old receipts, piles of mail and magazines cluttering the main floor, along with purchases of the past 12 years still in bags, long forgotten. The sister had a nearly fatal injury on the stairs last month, and we had to make a lot of decisions quickly and take a roadtrip during the pandemic. Their quality of life in the past 5 years at least, and their time going forward, would have been improved had they taken action, but they deny the facts of aging as if it were an Olympic sport.
Observing them at our annual winter trip, at which time we had to initiate pest control for their house due to a mouse infestation, made me review two recent books on brain health and avoiding dementia and put together a summary for myself. Really, the recommendations are largely the same as cardiovascular health. When the time comes, DH and I will move to an appropriate location with less upkeep and no stairs. I will not leave my daughter with the situation which MIL has given to us.
We have done Step 1 in terms of downsizing into old age. If we were to stay here forever, I would add ramps to the house entrance, and also put in a walk-in shower with a bench and hand rails.
But if I'm to outlive DH and if I'm in my late 70s or 80s with no cognitive decline, I would consider moving into an apartment in Burlington or the surrounding area. The winters are way too cold and isolating up here. They do have a nice senior living apartment just a mile or so from my house, but if I were to go that route, I'd just stay here in my house.
I agree that an active mind is an independent variable for Alzheimer's. So, it's good to stay intellectually challenged, but it's no guarantee you'll avoid cognitive decline.
I feel the odds are good for me to live a relatively healthy, long life. I have no chronic illness, I believe in a positive attitude, and my family members who didn't kill themselves with lifestyle choices lived a long, healthy life. If I wind up with dementia, I trust my kids will find a place for me. I don't expect it to be an expensive place as I won't have much money, but I'm not worried about that. As long as I'm not a burden for them.
Rosemary, I read or heard (can't remember, lol) the other day a physician saying, "What is good for the heart is good for the head." So, I think you're right - good cardiovascular habits help our brain stay healthy. Exercise helps get oxygen to our brains, for example.
Taking responsibility for one's life at all stages is my goal. When DH passed on, I evaluated my options and chose my present one-floor home. It is easily maintained, I enjoy the garden and the space. It can be converted to wheelchair access with ease.
Interestingly, a condo came up for sale in my neighbourhood. I had looked at them 7 years ago and felt really claustrophobic. I drove by the unit last week and the same feeling returned. Yes, there is lawn and winter maintenance for a reasonable condo fee $289/mth but to be that close to so many people would be so stressful for me. A 10'x10' wooden deck looking out at a collection of similar decks is not my cup of tea. I love my garden space with trees, the choice of rooms and openness which has kept me sane during this lockdown period.
To each their own!
I like Razz'z "Taking responsibility for one's lfie at all stages." A few years ago DH and I moved into a 600 sf house all on one level and built a cabin in the mountains, 240 sf living space. We both have COPD and heart disease, but learned how to take care of them from a clinic at the local hospital, so now with Covid, have gotten an air purifier, a treadmill and a bike that also exercises your uppoer body, now that the hospital exercise room is closed. I take supplements from a chiropractor/kinesiologist/nutritionist and also have a homeopathic nurse practitioner who is good at end-of-life care. I work toward our state passing a medically assisted dying law, I've downsized to where I think someone could clean out my stuff in half a day. We have a good vacuum cleaner and twice a week we vac and mop with soap from Bioshield. We wash clothes with soap nuts, which are anbibacterial. We have a dog and a parrot. When our dog dies, we have a deal with a woman who has a local hospice and end-of-life care sanctuary for old dogs, horses, and poultry, that we can foster one of her dogs, so if we die before the dog or can no longer maange the care, s/he has the sanctuary to return to. We take our dog (and bird in good weather) for an hour or so romp in the forest every morning. The big thing we need more of is savings for nursing care at home or home maintenance care if we can't do it anymore. But we make strides on that, just not enough if we get debilitated soon--I am 78 and DH is 76. I work at not being a grouch, thinking of Lady Bird Johnson's answer when someone asked her what we can give other people, "Good memories."
I would say for me it would be acceptance. Not a giving up, but a recognition of what the future holds and an understanding of what that will mean. The seasons change, each with their own gifts and deaths. That will mean enjoying the gifts as much as I can, and accepting the hardships as best as I can. Or as gracefully as I can. Yeah, maybe grace is what I will aspire to.
iris lilies
7-6-20, 5:41pm
One of my garden club lady friends, mid 70’s I would guess, is announcing to all that she has looked into assisted living as her children wanted her to, but she will be staying in her current house because she is happiest there. The house and property large. Requiring upkeep. Out in the bookies.And her husband has said he is having a hard time keeping it all up.
ooooookay, then. This will not end well.
One of my garden club lady friends, mid 70’s I would guess, is announcing to all that she has looked into assisted living as her children wanted her to, but she will be staying in her current house because she is happiest there. The house and property large. Requiring upkeep. Out in the bookies.And her husband has said he is having a hard time keeping it all up.
ooooookay, then. This will not end well.
We are trying to stay at home out in the country until we are in the 80-85 range, before it gets too late to change. Maybe sooner if need be, but I wouldn't think I would want to move at 75, either.
Teacher Terry
7-6-20, 7:08pm
I wouldn’t go to AL at 75 either. They should just hire out what they can’t do. Some friends of ours that live 6 blocks from us in a small house right in town bought 5 acres 30 minutes away from town. They are building a 2300 sq ft house. We had some other friends do something similar at 66. Their home is always dirty because at 74 they can’t keep it up and their expenses are higher so they can’t afford their cleaners anymore. We like being close to good hospitals if needed.
iris lilies
7-6-20, 10:16pm
Part of my view of my garden club lady friend’s situation is that I personally would rather shoot myself in the head then live out in the boonies where she lives. But see, that’s my prejudice. She actually is in enclave where there are other houses in the woods nearby, it’s just that you can’t see them. So it’s not totally isolated.
But then, It also depends on what your vision is of assisted living. The place she was looking at had lovely villas that backed up to hiking trails and woods. There was a little bit of garden space but I think you would to do most of your private gardening in pots, And the entire complex has public garden areas that you could help with I would think. I know that I have contributed Willy bulbs and irises to another retirement center in the woods in the state of Illinois where another one of my garden club lady friends lived.
But for me these assisted-living places that I see it’s not that they’re too small or crowded, except they’re out in the suburbs. I would want to explore one or two in the city there is at least one of them.
And no I don’t think that 75 is an automatic age to pair down, it is just that a ton of people my age in my neighborhood are at 65 - 70 making their next step.
our Hermann House with 1 acre is on a Big hill. There’s no way I would keep it up but I imagine DH will be toddling around into his 80s keeping it up. When it’s time to hire somebody to mow it we will probably have a big fight so I hope I’m dead by then.
Teacher Terry
7-6-20, 10:52pm
We moved into town at 53 and 58. We wanted to be close to things and not dependent on a car.
I take after my dad’s side of the family. The women live much longer than the men. My French-Canadian great-grandma Claire, who I take physically after, died in 1981 a month before she turned 105. She was pretty sharp until about 93 and lived alone. Due to mental decline, she had to go into a nursing home.
I’m 51 now. I’m active with my diving and work out on the recumbent bike at the gym 3-4 times a week. I read incessantly. Prefer the computer to the TV. Active with my church and choir, although that is on hold for now.
flowerseverywhere
7-7-20, 5:30am
We retired By 55 years. As I approach 70 I have now outlived my parents by 15 years. Using my time wisely was of utmost importance to me as I did not know how much I had of it.
We early on moved to a one floor house with a no stair entrance through the garage, warm weather and a walk in Roman shower. Young enough to develop lots of friendships and contacts in a new place. We spent years planning and focused on these things: Money, nurturing our souls, a safe living condition. and developing our hobbies.
On the money side, we never have been spenders, we almost never eat out, drove old cars, use libraries etc. Always saved and learned all we could about investing.
Hobbies were the easiest. I quilt, learned Pottery and watercolor but only still do and teach quilting, belong to three monthly book clubs, play cards and mah Jong, and exercise daily I attend both a monthly WW2 history club and a genealogy/colonial history group where we have guest speakers, movies and book discussions. My book, history clubs and quilt groups are meeting via zoom, So normally almost every day I have one or sometimes two in person meaningful contacts, now zoom meetings. We have taken camping road trips all over the US.
So where you are going to live and how much money you will have are extremely important. But equally important is what are you going to do all day. Nothing rots the brain more than watching TV and sitting around, especially the so called news networks that are now all so filled with hate. Libraries, senior centers, art classes, churches, gyms and YMCA’s, local clubs like quilting and gardening, are all good places to explore things to do. I have friends who volunteer at animal shelters, volunteer at hospice, tutor kids, raise money for veterans, animals, and numerous other wonderful organizations. I cannot tell you how many times I am Quilting for instance and someone will say to me “I always wanted to do that”. What are you waiting for? We only have one shot at life. Make it meaningful.
If if I had to do it all over, I would have lived even more simply. We worked until 55 because DH could continue with his health insurance through his employer. Excellent choice for us.
One more ore thing to add. If anyone has followed Tradd’s diving adventures through the years, her journey is exactly what I am talking about. Bae’s community service. Iris Lilly is another good example. Fostering dogs, growing beautiful flowers and working on her Herman home. Having dreams and interests and figuring out how to do them. The secret to a happy and fulfilled life.
One of my garden club lady friends, mid 70’s I would guess, is announcing to all that she has looked into assisted living as her children wanted her to, but she will be staying in her current house because she is happiest there. The house and property large. Requiring upkeep. Out in the bookies.And her husband has said he is having a hard time keeping it all up.
ooooookay, then. This will not end well.
If the cost of my MiL's assisted living is any guide (anecdotally, it seems to be), your lady friend could hire groundskeepers and a maid and still be ahead of what AL would cost her and her DH. It also is likely that we will see more and more of that kind of arrangement because it is far less expensive to pay helpers to go to someone's place of living than to move the clients to a dedicated AL facility or, particularly, a nursing home.
That semi-rural living absolutely would not be my or DW's choice, but if people can cover their own costs....
If the cost of my MiL's assisted living is any guide (anecdotally, it seems to be), your lady friend could hire groundskeepers and a maid and still be ahead of what AL would cost her and her DH. It also is likely that we will see more and more of that kind of arrangement because it is far less expensive to pay helpers to go to someone's place of living than to move the clients to a dedicated AL facility or, particularly, a nursing home.
That semi-rural living absolutely would not be my or DW's choice, but if people can cover their own costs....
Good point, Steve, about the cost of assisted living. My parents pay about 8000 a month for a one bedroom place and some limited caregiving--basically medication administration and transportation to doctors. Another place in town was offering the same care for 19000 a month. It is assisted living, not memory care or nursing home, although the line is really blurred now and what used to be called nursing home gets called assisted living a lot, in my experience.
Maybe people should be looking for senior apartment living.
My parents had no buy in, but up the coast the buy-in places wanted 200k to buy in.
My parents place needed 250k in the bank before they would consider them for admission.
My relative wiped out their life savings staying in an assisted living facility for a year; I picture vultures in suits circling those places.
One of the things that gardening helps me understand is how every living thing has its season and then moves on. I don't understand our cultural obsession with living as long as we can with very low quality of life; existing on a bucket of pharmaceuticals. MIL is horribly unhappy locked in her assisted living room spending thousands each month just to linger on. Every time she has a new ache, it is one more trip to the doctor who gives her another pill and then she is quarantined for another two weeks. I imagine in some other time she would pass like my grandfather when his heart just finally stopped. No drugs to the rescue.
happystuff
7-7-20, 11:15am
I'm very much in favor of generational living. With so many of us siblings, my mother will NEVER lack for a place to live! And I have often offered my MIL to move in with us; she is still enjoying her independence at 85. I know there are many people and reasons against generational living, but I have seen it work quite well and am definitely in favor of it.
Simplemind
7-7-20, 11:41am
When we had to take my dad out of his house in his beginning stages of dementia, we moved him to independent living. My MIL was in a larger community (which she loved) in independent living but we felt that would be too overwhelming for dad. We absolutely loved that place. I myself would live in it. The people were great. The food in the restaurant was great. One of us ate with him almost every day. His apartment was lovely. I can imagine the assisted living level there was much the same. I wasn't a fan of their set up for memory care so when we finally got to that point we moved him into foster care. Again, if I was in his position I couldn't ask for more kind and compassionate care. Those people became like family to us. Beautiful home and gardens with wonderful food, at least when we weren't taking him home for visits and meals. I often got pics on my phone showing what my dad was doing.
Not all set ups are bad. I do know that we were extremely fortunate. I drive by the independent community where we first moved my dad and realize that couple of years were golden. I could visit him there and be his daughter. It was clean, bright and happy. When he was still at home all I could think of was his vulnerability as well as how much work I had cut out for me on his property. I always left depressed.
I would be happy if in those same shoes (dementia) our kids made sure we had that same level of surroundings, care and oversight.
I'm very much in favor of generational living. With so many of us siblings, my mother will NEVER lack for a place to live! And I have often offered my MIL to move in with us; she is still enjoying her independence at 85. I know there are many people and reasons against generational living, but I have seen it work quite well and am definitely in favor of it.
I would like to see more of that. Yes, it is often a burden on the family housing an elderly person, but if you can do it, and if the elderly person has limited physical and cognitive disabilities, I think it's awesome. My MIL's mother lived with her her whole life. When her mother was 85, she asked my MIL for a cup of tea one day and slipped off after finishing it.
Sometimes I think the eldercare industry is another expensive manufactured "need" of modern life. Obviously many do need assisted living and professional geriatric care, but why is it a given that we will all wind up in an institution someday. Of all my elders, I can think of only two that lived in a nursing home or assisted living . The rest lived and died at their own homes or a family's home.
If our society hadn't devolved to the point where everything is work-work-work, maybe there would be people at home to share their lives with loved ones.
iris lilies
7-7-20, 11:51am
I would like to see more of that. Yes, it is often a burden on the family housing an elderly person, but if you can do it, and if the elderly person has limited physical and cognitive disabilities, I think it's awesome. My MIL's mother lived with her her whole life. When her mother was 85, she asked my MIL for a cup of tea one day and slipped off after finishing it.
Sometimes I think the eldercare industry is another expensive manufactured "need" of modern life. Obviously many do need assisted living and professional geriatric care, but why is it a given that we will all wind up in an institution someday. Of all my elders, I can think of only two that lived in a nursing home or assisted living . The rest lived and died at their own homes or a family's home.
If our society hadn't devolved to the point where everything is work-work-work, maybe there would be people at home to share their lives with loved ones.
well, my soapbox: Back in the golden days of Yore that we are all speaking of, people didn’t have 3000 square-foot homes in large yards that they expected to live in until they died. And their kids have to take care of all of that.
I have admiration for elderly people who craft their lives to live in neat, tidy, small abodes. You all can tell that from my many past posts.
One of the best pieces of advice that came from this site is the idea that children should tell their frail elderly parents this: I am concerned about your welfare and I will take care of YOU. But my job is not to take care of all of your STUFF.
I don’t know who wrote that piece of wisdom but I keep that in mind and tell that to my friends who are dealing with their elderly parents.
IL, I pass that along to my friends who are dealing with all their relatives’ stuff, as well.
happystuff
7-7-20, 12:09pm
Yes, definitely a reason I'm trying to deal with my own stuff now!
I used to think exactly the way you are all describing about multi-generational living, until we went through my parents' decline. First, for 10 years they refused to move in with us or have them move in with them. So that wasn't any option. No other siblings offered, so there is that.
By the time my dad had his last fall in his house, my mom was so far gone with dementia that the doctor said she needed 24/7 watching. Their house would have needed major construction to accommodate them and another family. She would not have let carers in, and there were no carers in their area that could provide 24.7. If we had found such, were were talking 20,000 a month. While still maintaining all the house expenses, etc.
Sibling refused to allow us to move them in with us, saying "it is not fair to you and they will destroy you."
I hope others have better experiences with multigenerational living but our story is not all unusual.
frugal-one
7-7-20, 12:52pm
I would like to see more of that. Yes, it is often a burden on the family housing an elderly person, but if you can do it, and if the elderly person has limited physical and cognitive disabilities, I think it's awesome. My MIL's mother lived with her her whole life. When her mother was 85, she asked my MIL for a cup of tea one day and slipped off after finishing it.
Sometimes I think the eldercare industry is another expensive manufactured "need" of modern life. Obviously many do need assisted living and professional geriatric care, but why is it a given that we will all wind up in an institution someday. Of all my elders, I can think of only two that lived in a nursing home or assisted living . The rest lived and died at their own homes or a family's home.
If our society hadn't devolved to the point where everything is work-work-work, maybe there would be people at home to share their lives with loved ones.
I think that is very easy to say if you have not had full-time, round the clock responsibility for someone who is not able to care for themselves or be alone. My MIL was with us for 2 weeks. I never was so thankful to have a 2 story house and lack of room in my life. It was EXHAUSTING. We set her up in independent living for as long as she could be there. We visited. She was with people her own age and had things to do. We were all happier. I would never ask my son to take care of me. No matter which way you look at it... you are a burden. Life is disrupted.
I think that is very easy to say if you have not had full-time, round the clock responsibility for someone who is not able to care for themselves or be alone. My MIL was with us for 2 weeks. I never was so thankful to have a 2 story house and lack of room in my life. It was EXHAUSTING. We set her up in independent living for as long as she could be there. We visited. She was with people her own age and had things to do. We were all happier. I would never ask my son to take care of me. No matter which way you look at it... you are a burden. Life is disrupted.
I'm not saying it's a one-size-fits-all situation. As I said, there are very good reasons for finding good care in AL or nursing homes. I just feel it's taken for granted these days that we plan for our family members to live apart, and it doesn't always have to be that way.
My MIL had a hip replacement at age 80. We turned our dining room into a main floor bedroom for her (my husband framed and drywalled walls and put in a door). I cooked her meals, made her appointments, did her medication management, hosted her physical therapist and took notes, took her to her geriatrician, etc. In our case, it worked and while it was disruptive for a few months, it was not extremely burdensome. I recognize that in many cases, it might have been.
I am not looking for my kids to take me in. I'm very independent. But I still think of family home care to be a viable option, as happystuff said.
I think that is very easy to say if you have not had full-time, round the clock responsibility for someone who is not able to care for themselves or be alone. My MIL was with us for 2 weeks. I never was so thankful to have a 2 story house and lack of room in my life. It was EXHAUSTING. We set her up in independent living for as long as she could be there. We visited. She was with people her own age and had things to do. We were all happier. I would never ask my son to take care of me. No matter which way you look at it... you are a burden. Life is disrupted.
I'm sorry it was not a good experience for you.
My single friend had her father come live with her and they hired day-care to come to the house. It worked out well, as she still had to work. It also allowed her to have time to/for herself. The other siblings would come and visit, and her dad was cared for and comfortable while still with family.
Again, these situations vary and don't work out for everyone.
I'm sorry it was not a good experience for you.
My single friend had her father come live with her and they hired day-care to come to the house. It worked out well, as she still had to work. It also allowed her to have time to/for herself. The other siblings would come and visit, and her dad was cared for and comfortable while still with family.
Again, these situations vary and don't work out for everyone.
My husband did a lot of video production work for AARP, and one of the promotional videos was to lobby to the State for funding for home care as opposed to nursing home/AL care, the rationale being that it is FAR LESS expensive for Medicare to pay for a healthcare provider to come to the house than to pay for full time care and housing.
Again, for people who want that option should be able to get it.
I used to think exactly the way you are all describing about multi-generational living, until we went through my parents' decline. First, for 10 years they refused to move in with us or have them move in with them. So that wasn't any option. No other siblings offered, so there is that.
By the time my dad had his last fall in his house, my mom was so far gone with dementia that the doctor said she needed 24/7 watching. Their house would have needed major construction to accommodate them and another family. She would not have let carers in, and there were no carers in their area that could provide 24.7. If we had found such, were were talking 20,000 a month. While still maintaining all the house expenses, etc.
Sibling refused to allow us to move them in with us, saying "it is not fair to you and they will destroy you."
I hope others have better experiences with multigenerational living but our story is not all unusual.
Tybee, your situation would demand TWICE as much of your time and labor, with two parents involved. That is a lot. And your point about the carer expense--that is a crazy amount of money.
Teacher Terry
7-7-20, 1:34pm
My mom was determined not to be a burden and I feel the same. My mil was talking about moving in with us when she was 60. There was no way that was ever going to happen. I raised my kids and didn’t intend to take care of her. People need their own space.
Tybee, your situation would demand TWICE as much of your time and labor, with two parents involved. That is a lot. And your point about the carer expense--that is a crazy amount of money.
I know, and you could not even get that kind of help where they live, so they would have had to move out of their house to a different area. For me, the dementia was a game changer, as the potential for her harming herself became very high. I still wish they had gone for multi-generational living 10 years ago--I think it would have worked out really well. But she was in much better shape 10 years ago, cognitively speaking, and he was physically stronger.
It's so hard to get all the siblings on the same page--no one ever seems to agree on what they need and how to do it. then, by the time they crashed and burned, it was too late to make it work.
I'm not saying it's a one-size-fits-all situation. As I said, there are very good reasons for finding good care in AL or nursing homes. I just feel it's taken for granted these days that we plan for our family members to live apart, and it doesn't always have to be that way.
My MIL had a hip replacement at age 80. We turned our dining room into a main floor bedroom for her (my husband framed and drywalled walls and put in a door). I cooked her meals, made her appointments, did her medication management, hosted her physical therapist and took notes, took her to her geriatrician, etc. In our case, it worked and while it was disruptive for a few months, it was not extremely burdensome. I recognize that in many cases, it might have been.
I am not looking for my kids to take me in. I'm very independent. But I still think of family home care to be a viable option, as happystuff said.
As you said, each case is different. My MIL had to be helped with bathing. I am not a large person and could not lift her. She could not walk up steps and our house was not set up for that. She also had cognitive decline. It was 24 hour care. I don't wish that constant care on anyone. There was no other family to help. It was pure hell.
I read that menopause symptoms are a result of us outliving our ovaries. Same with old age. We just weren't designed to live so long. Medical intervention allowed my dad to extend his life by 15 years. But they were a miserable 15 years. I would choose quality of life over longevity any day. Assisted suicide should be legal in all states.
My mother is difficult, argumentative, always has to be right, judgmental about other women, gaslights, has no empathy. There is no way I'd let her live here. My sister on the other hand, was willing to buy a house where my mom could have her own inlaw suite, and Mom said absolutely not. She refuses to consider leaving her own house, and until she does something stupid that requires intervention, we can't do anything about that. Us kids have to shop, pay her bills, assist with whatever needs assisting, help her use her tv remote, mow, cook, etc etc while Mom brags how she's doing it all herself and how glad she is to have all her wits about her after she asks me for the 8th time in a row what day it is (even though I got her a dementia clock that has that on it). Sometimes there are no good answers.
iris lilies
7-7-20, 3:53pm
I read that menopause symptoms are a result of us outliving our ovaries. Same with old age. We just weren't designed to live so long. Medical intervention allowed my dad to extend his life by 15 years. But they were a miserable 15 years. I would choose quality of life over longevity any day. Assisted suicide should be legal in all states.
come now, if you think most old people will commit suicide, I have a bridge to sell you.
The drive to live is very strong.
come now, if you think most old people will commit suicide, I have a bridge to sell you.
The drive to live is very strong.
Not saying most will want to, but that those who do should be able to do it with dignity. I want to be able to do for myself what I'm able to do for my pets in regards to end of life. I know most people won't choose that route, I see it all around me, but it should be our choice in old age. Why not?
As you said, each case is different. My MIL had to be helped with bathing. I am not a large person and could not lift her. She could not walk up steps and our house was not set up for that. She also had cognitive decline. It was 24 hour care. I don't wish that constant care on anyone. There was no other family to help. It was pure hell.
That is definitely a different situation than my MIL. My MIL might have been feisty, but she was fiercely independent and had all her mental faculties until the day she died.
Geila, we are with you. Also, it is equally important to talk about the what ifs when you are younger. I have told my husband that I am not going to ever be the personal hands on caretaker for his parents. I will watch over his mom, take her places, ensure she is warm, comfortable, and fed. I am not a nurse and did not want anyone to "expect" those services from me. He clearly understands. My parents are deceased and lived on the other side of the country from me. Thankfully, they were able to take care of themselves.
Sounds cold but it is setting my own boundaries and making sure they are understood.
Medical intervention allowed my dad to extend his life by 15 years. But they were a miserable 15 years. I would choose quality of life over longevity any day. Assisted suicide should be legal in all states.
Make a Living Will - now and also tell any and all family members that you not only have one, but tell them verbally what your wishes are. This way everyone can be prepared if/when the time comes.
Geila: My mother would definitely opt for physician-assisted suicide if it were available.
My dad opted to move himself to assisted living about 4 years before he died, when he was 81 years old. When he moved in the biggest thing he wanted out of it was to have someone else do all the cooking. When mom had died 4 years before this he had never cooked anything more complicated than boiling water to make cream of wheat every morning, and though he learned it was still very stressful for him. The maid service and people to drive him to doc appointments was just a bonus. He also really liked the "one stop shopping" element of assisted living. And having staff on hand probably saved his life a couple of times when he came down with pneumonia rapidly. Both times staff found him collapsed somewhere in the building or his apartment when he pushed the emergency call button he wore around his neck, and got him to the hospital quickly. If he'd still lived in his condo who knows how that would have played out.
Rosemary, I read or heard (can't remember, lol) the other day a physician saying, "What is good for the heart is good for the head." So, I think you're right - good cardiovascular habits help our brain stay healthy. Exercise helps get oxygen to our brains, for example.
I remember reading this advice from the Nun's Study.
As to intergenerational living, I think one of the challenges is that people are living longer but in more frail or medically complicated conditions. It's one thing to have Grandma live with you when she just needs housekeeping help but it's entirely another when you need to be a full time certified nursing assistant or even nurse. My mother 88 is fiercely independent and has always been proactive about arranging her life so she can be on her own. She moved into senior housing before she gave up her car, even. Buses and taxis can get her where she wants to go. She's mastered InstaCart during the lockdown phase and she does not plan on going back to regular shopping. Should she need meal or housekeeping services it would be easy enough to arrange as those services are already coming to the building.
Teacher Terry made one of the best comments here -- she mentioned moving to a neighborhood where they wouldn't be dependent on a car. You want to be able to function without your own car well before you go past your "sell by" date for driving!
Teacher Terry made one of the best comments here -- she mentioned moving to a neighborhood where they wouldn't be dependent on a car. You want to be able to function without your own car well before you go past your "sell by" date for driving!
I imagine that I will get to a point where I can no longer drive, but I also expect to get to another second point where I can no longer walk very far, so I suppose there are two different moving points in my future. My husband and I have talked a lot about these decisions as we have watched my poor parents deal with so much disability and see them age out of independent living, and we both feel that our religious convictions forebid the suicide/euthanasia route, so I'm going to be practical and plan to end up in some sort of assisted living arrangement at some point, and hope I can be as gracious about it as my parents have been, and find whatever joy I can in whatever joys are left--that is the worst thing about the pandemic, I think, that it deprived my dad of major league baseball this summer.
early morning
8-7-20, 10:41am
My father would have opted for physician-assisted suicide if that had been available - we talked about it. As it happened, he ended up committing suicide in a more traditional manner with no clear warning, as he did not want any family members to be looked at as complicit. He was big on making his own decisions and controlling as much of his life as he could, which extended to controlling his death, when it was inevitable and he was no longer able to live in a manner he found acceptable. We were very sad that he was unable to leave surrounded by those who loved him. We are such barbarians when it come to death, more compassionate to our pets than to our fellow humans.
We are already living generationally, as our adult daughter lives with us. She could leave at any time, but she says the arrangement suits her well, and we are happy with her company.
“ more compassionate to our pets than to our fellow humans.”
So true
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