When the president ignores a supreme court ruling [Archive]

iris lilies

7-30-20, 12:19pm

What is the appropriate method of dealing with it?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/daca-donald-trump-supreme-court.html?fbclid=IwAR1FoJwRQCGKJFovM2kp62s-5QknWd4Gv35D3FwwhmGOUGrYvWyfKGyinm8

While I have been afraid of this for a while with the Trumpster, I can also see that One persons “defying the Supreme Court decision “ is another person’s “delaying action until the presidential election has taken place.”

JaneV2.0

7-30-20, 12:28pm

And now with his "delayed election" tweet, he's taking on the Constitution, as well. Rule of law, anyone?

iris lilies

7-30-20, 2:14pm

I am not sure if you’ve noticed this, but our President tweets a lot of dumb shit that goes nowhere.

frugal-one

7-30-20, 2:22pm

What is the appropriate method of dealing with it?

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/07/daca-donald-trump-supreme-court.html?fbclid=IwAR1FoJwRQCGKJFovM2kp62s-5QknWd4Gv35D3FwwhmGOUGrYvWyfKGyinm8

Treat him as anyone else would be treated. If it be jail... so be it. He is not supposed to be above the law, I thought!

JaneV2.0

7-30-20, 2:29pm

I am not sure if you’ve noticed this, but our President tweets a lot of dumb shit that goes nowhere.

You have a point...

jp1

7-30-20, 3:27pm

While it is certainly undeniable that trump is completely ignorant as to what is in the constitution, and a moron on any number of other topics (hydroxychloroquine anyone?) he has also made it abundantly clear that he will not be constrained by the constitution or the rule of law if he can possibly get away with it. As the original point of this thread points out, the administration is currently ignoring a supreme court ruling. If people don't see that as the constitutional crisis that it is I can't help them.

There is nothing in his past behavior that would cause a reasonable person to infer that he wasn't serious with his tweet this morning. As his supporters and defenders so often do they will undoubtedly once again say he was only kidding, just to have him double down tomorrow and say that he was serious.

Tammy

7-30-20, 4:35pm

He’s setting it up so when he loses, he can blame everyone except himself.

bae

7-30-20, 4:38pm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worcester_v._Georgia#:~:text=In%20a%20popular%20qu otation%20that,the%20U.S.%20Civil%20War%2C%20The

LDAHL

7-30-20, 5:47pm

He’s setting it up so when he loses, he can blame everyone except himself.

That sounds vaguely familiar.

jp1

7-30-20, 10:10pm

He’s setting it up so when he loses, he can blame everyone except himself.

That sounds vaguely familiar.

Considering how often he's threatened to deny/dispute the election results it should be more than vaguely familiar when this is pointed out. Judging by the fairly strong reaction of republicans (at least strong by their generally milquetoast reactions to all of trump's awfulness that is forever staining them (or at least the politician class of republicans) as the party of soulless, crappy-a$$ human beings) he may have just finally done something heinous enough to convince even the most apathetic of voters that he's simply not fit for the office and will be a serious danger to this country if he gets reelected.

Alan

7-30-20, 10:19pm

Judging by the fairly strong reaction of republicans (at least strong by their generally milquetoast reactions to all of trump's awfulness that is forever staining them (or at least the politician class of republicans) as the party of soulless, crappy-a$$ human beings) he may have just finally done something heinous enough to convince even the most apathetic of voters that he's simply not fit for the office .....
Soulless, crappy-ass human beings? In liberalville, does that qualify as hate speech?

jp1

7-31-20, 12:27am

Soulless, crappy-ass human beings? In liberalville, does that qualify as hate speech?
Conservatives are worried about hate speech now? Dang. The world really IS flipped upside down.

dado potato

7-31-20, 1:16am

You have a point...

The tweet about delaying the election was sent on the same day that the US GDP was reported 34% lower (on an annualized basis), the steepest decline on record for a single quarter. It could be that Trump's tweet was a diversion and distraction from the worst economic "report card" in a couple of generations.

jp1

7-31-20, 1:23am

The tweet about delaying the election was sent on the same day that the US GDP was reported 34% lower (on an annualized basis), the steepest decline on record for a single quarter. It could be that Trump's tweet was a diversion and distraction from the worst economic "report card" in a couple of generations.

You might be right. His most awful tweets come when he needs to deflect from other awful news. Maybe if he would just not be such an awful human being he wouldn’t have to do that. But then his fanboys would have a sad. The real sad though is that so many Americans are cool with his shitty and dangerous behavior.

LDAHL

7-31-20, 8:45am

Soulless, crappy-ass human beings? In liberalville, does that qualify as hate speech?

Oh don’t take offense, it’s just a bookkeeping thing. We’ve reached such a pitch of rhetorical hysteria that that’s just a formulaic phrase like “have a nice day”.

Whatever liberals are left have been cowed into silence or cancelled by the neopuritans pushing the Great Awokening.

Alan

7-31-20, 9:11am

Conservatives are worried about hate speech now? Dang. The world really IS flipped upside down.
This one isn't, free speech is important for many reasons including the ability to see who people really are, but I thought maybe you were against it in this era of cancel.

catherine

7-31-20, 9:25am

Based on his history, and his family background, is it any surprise that he is hardwired to believe that any means justifies the end? His father taught him to kill or be killed in business. On The Apprentice, he fired anyone who showed any soft spot in their own self-interest.

This is who he is. This is what we bought.

As the scorpion told the frog after stinging him and dooming them both: "I could not help myself. It is my nature."

LDAHL

7-31-20, 9:47am

frugal-one

7-31-20, 6:54pm

This one isn't, free speech is important for many reasons including the ability to see who people really are, but I thought maybe you were against it in this era of cancel.

I really wish you would see "people" for the way they really are.

frugal-one

7-31-20, 6:56pm

Wasn’t it Mencken who said something about Democracy giving the people what they want good and hard?

He was not elected by popular vote... so technically no.

happystuff

7-31-20, 7:10pm

I am not sure if you’ve noticed this, but our President tweets a lot of dumb shit that goes nowhere.

Tweeter is as tweeter does. :~)

Alan

7-31-20, 7:42pm

He was not elected by popular vote... so technically no.Democracy on the Federal level responds to the states rather than just the coasts where the popular votes reside. Luckily that ensures more democracy for the rest of us so, technically yes.

Alan

7-31-20, 7:48pm

I really wish you would see "people" for the way they really are.
I do, then I remind myself that everyone is entitled to their peculiarities so I do the healthy thing and let it go.

jp1

8-1-20, 8:54am

This one isn't, free speech is important for many reasons including the ability to see who people really are, but I thought maybe you were against it in this era of cancel.

You're right. People's words are a great way of figuring out who people really are. Anyone who indicates that it is in any way acceptable for a sitting president to question the integrity of an upcoming election will be judged by me to be not especially caring about American values and ideals. Hong Kong's upcoming elections have just been postponed a year. Anyone who doubts the sincerity of trump's words or that he would actually attempt to delay the election or says 'it could never happen here' is wrong. We've already got Mike Pompeo saying that it will be Trump Attorny Bill Barr's decision whether to postpone the election. It doesn't take a whole lot of imagination to envision them actually pursuing this. Nor does it take a lot of imagination to see how brutally destructive it would be for this country.

Steven Calabresi of the Federalist Society is right. Trump needs to be impeached and removed for that tweet. But of course that won't happen. Because the republicans in the senate are soulless crappy ass human beings who love their power more than they love the country.

frugal-one

8-1-20, 3:38pm

Democracy on the Federal level responds to the states rather than just the coasts where the popular votes reside. Luckily that ensures more democracy for the rest of us so, technically yes.

No... not by popular vote but the electoral college.. Not the same
.

Teacher Terry

8-1-20, 3:39pm

Jp, I totally agree.

frugal-one

8-1-20, 3:41pm

I do, then I remind myself that everyone is entitled to their peculiarities so I do the healthy thing and let it go.

Wow... "peculiarities" ..... that is rich.

frugal-one

8-1-20, 3:42pm

Jp, I totally agree.

Yep... told it like it is.

Alan

8-1-20, 3:57pm

No... not by popular vote but the electoral college.. Not the same
.
You're just being argumentative, popular vote by state which translates to electoral college electors. Without electoral college the population of the two coasts would overwhelm the vast center leaving them to the whims of the elites.

I know it can be confusing to folks who think the Federal Government was conceived and created to provide for them, but it wasn't, it was conceived and created to provide security and oversight in the event of disputes between the states while providing them with a republican form of government. Granted, the federal government has expanded its role greatly since the Civil War and people have been led to wrongly believe it is a Democracy rather than a Republic but the fact remains that the states elect the president based upon the electoral college wishes of the individual states. A national popular vote means nothing.

frugal-one

8-1-20, 5:31pm

You're just being argumentative, popular vote by state which translates to electoral college electors. Without electoral college the population of the two coasts would overwhelm the vast center leaving them to the whims of the elites.

I know it can be confusing to folks who think the Federal Government was conceived and created to provide for them, but it wasn't, it was conceived and created to provide security and oversight in the event of disputes between the states while providing them with a republican form of government. Granted, the federal government has expanded its role greatly since the Civil War and people have been led to wrongly believe it is a Democracy rather than a Republic but the fact remains that the states elect the president based upon the electoral college wishes of the individual states. A national popular vote means nothing.

BS Just recently there was hoopla about if "electors" of states being required to vote for what the populace of the state wants or if they can go rogue. If the "electors" vote as they should ie as in WI... the popular vote matters greatly.

Alan

8-1-20, 5:36pm

BS Just recently there was hoopla about if "electors" of states being required to vote for what the populace of the state wants or if they can go rogue. If the "electors" vote as they should ie as in WI... the popular vote matters greatly.That's an issue with the individual states as there's no uniformity in how much leeway each allows their electors. Popular vote is important within each state but not nationally. Complaining about popular vote versus electoral college on the national level is wasted effort since the overall popular vote is irrelevant, and always has been.

And if I recall correctly no rogue electors, as rare as they are, have ever changed the results of a Presidential election. Not ever.

Edited to add: This appears to be a timely topic since the Supreme Court ruled just a few weeks ago that the individual states "faithless elector" laws are constitutional which therefore gives them the ability to remove whatever rogue elector may show up. I must have missed that in the news because I only discovered it while verifying my earlier statements.

frugal-one

8-1-20, 8:24pm

That's an issue with the individual states as there's no uniformity in how much leeway each allows their electors. Popular vote is important within each state but not nationally. Complaining about popular vote versus electoral college on the national level is wasted effort since the overall popular vote is irrelevant, and always has been.

And if I recall correctly no rogue electors, as rare as they are, have ever changed the results of a Presidential election. Not ever.

Edited to add: This appears to be a timely topic since the Supreme Court ruled just a few weeks ago that the individual states "faithless elector" laws are constitutional which therefore gives them the ability to remove whatever rogue elector may show up. I must have missed that in the news because I only discovered it while verifying my earlier statements.

Just because something has not happened before is not an indication that it will not happen. Look at all the crap trump has done that has not been done before. Ignoring supoenas is only one example.

Popular vote in a few key states could turn the election, so therefore, is relevant.

Alan

8-1-20, 8:36pm

Just because something has not happened before is not an indication that it will not happen.
That's true, but the real question should be what is the likelihood that some particular thing will happen considering the protections against it? As an example, it's possible that I could win the Mega Millions, but it's protected against my making good on that possibility by the fact that I don't play it.

Look at all the crap trump has done that has not been done before. Ignoring supoenas is only one example. Oh that's been done before, maybe as many as 8 or 9 times during the previous administration, I forget the exact number. What are your other examples?

Popular vote in a few key states could turn the election, so therefore, is relevant. That's true as well but we should always distinguish between popular votes in individual states and national popular vote. It seems to me that people who use the 'popular vote' term seldom, if ever, do.

frugal-one

8-1-20, 9:50pm

There are so many ridiculous things that trump has said and done. The most recent is that trump said the election should be delayed. Just do a google search and you will come up with many.....

https://video.search.yahoo.com/search/video;_ylt=AwrEzdwAGyZfePYAjW9XNyoA;_ylu=X3oDMTEyd GlpaGkwBGNvbG8DYmYxBHBvcwMxBHZ0aWQDQzAxNjRfMQRzZWM Dc2M-?p=weird+things+trump+has+done+that+has+never+been +done+before&fr=aaplw

Alan

8-1-20, 9:53pm

There are so many ridiculous things that trump has said and done. The most recent is that trump said the election should be delayed. Just do a google search and you will come up with many.....
Yeah, he says a lot of goofy stuff, seemingly unaware that he doesn't have the authority to follow through. But his detractors don't seem to realize that either and their trusted sources won't tell them.

Viewing retail politics from a distance a dis-interested observer might conclude that our politicians are not qualified to lead, our media is too biased to be believed and our voters are too caught up in ridiculous dogma to be trusted with the responsibility. Of course that's just my opinion.

frugal-one

8-2-20, 2:39pm

jp1

8-3-20, 8:00am

Yeah, he says a lot of goofy stuff, seemingly unaware that he doesn't have the authority to follow through. But his detractors don't seem to realize that either and their trusted sources won't tell them.

Viewing retail politics from a distance a dis-interested observer might conclude that our politicians are not qualified to lead, our media is too biased to be believed and our voters are too caught up in ridiculous dogma to be trusted with the responsibility. Of course that's just my opinion.

I suppose it’s theoretically reasonable to laugh off all the shitty authoritarian ideas he spouts because he ‘just can’t do it.’ But if you had asked me four years ago ‘could a president get away with withholding foreign aid from an ally in order to extort them into making up dirt about his likely next election rival?’ I would have LOL’d and said ‘of course not.’ But now that’s a perfectly acceptable thing for any future president to do. (Thank you soulless crappy ass republican senators...) If the masses are stupid enough to re-elect trump there is no reason to think he will feel constrained by something as quaint as the constitution. He already doesn’t. And isn’t. Once the inconvenience of having to face re-election is past his illegal actions of this first term will seem quaint.

JaneV2.0

8-3-20, 10:10am

Don't discount the machinations of Russians and widespread voter suppression in changing the course of this election. The masses may be stupid, but they aren't working alone.

iris lilies

8-3-20, 11:07am

Don't discount the machinations of Russians and widespread voter suppression in changing the course of this election. The masses may be stupid, but they aren't working alone.
what do
I watch out for in my local election, evidence of Russian influence,
I mean?