View Full Version : Kenosha exposes America as it really is.....
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-20, 10:52am
Just what I said. The iaw enforcement involved can't be so stupid (?) as to not know they were vulnerable to being filmed - yet they attempted murder anyway. Why is human life so cheap in America and why the societal expectation that I be OK with this?
After Kenosha I don't understand how a rational adult could not have a least a low grade permanent fear of the United States. Rob
More looting and vandalism. And mob violence. I wouldn’t want to be in some of these city’s either. More democratic run city’s will look like Detroit.
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-20, 11:43am
More looting and vandalism. And mob violence. I wouldn’t want to be in some of these city’s either. More democratic run city’s will look like Detroit.I was referring to America's out of control sociopathic police. Kenosha is yet another example of how worthless African American life is in America to these pension accruing psychopaths. Rob
After Kenosha I don't understand how a rational adult could not have a least a low grade permanent fear of the United States. Rob
"Rational". You keep using that word....I don't think it means what you think it means.
Teacher Terry
8-25-20, 11:47am
That’s my hometown. Not sure it’s a Democratic city anymore as so many wealthy republicans from Illinois have moved in. It’s not that big and I actually was surprised that happened.
iris lilies
8-25-20, 12:47pm
I can assure you Rob, I am as sick and tired of the nonsense as you are. We would probably define “nonsense” differently, but I am fine to just say this crap has to stop.
To that end, I seldom seek out news sources yet I can't escape it.
That’s my hometown. Not sure it’s a Democratic city anymore as so many wealthy republicans from Illinois have moved in. It’s not that big and I actually was surprised that happened.
Like almost all of our riot-prone cities, Kenosha is pretty solidly Democrat. I would think most of the wealthier Illinois refugees are heading to places like Pleasant Prairie, Salem or Bristol. And not all of the escapees from that ill-managed state are wicked Republicans by any means.
That’s my hometown. Not sure it’s a Democratic city anymore as so many wealthy republicans from Illinois have moved in. It’s not that big and I actually was surprised that happened.
When were you last there? Kenosha is still pretty working class. I have friends there.
dado potato
8-25-20, 1:38pm
The Wisconsin Department of Justice is investigating, and there is a video record of what each officer did. I think a reasonable amount of time must be allowed for a thorough and competent investigation to be completed.
The elected official accountable for the Department of Justice is Attorney General Josh Kaul. Some insight into his attitude can be gathered from an opinion piece he wrote for the Capitol Times 6/9/2020:
... Racism and discrimination persist in America.
We cannot delay for another time... engaging in open, constructive dialogue and taking action. And as we work to make progress, voices from communities that too often have been unrepresented or ignored by those in power must be included. We must listen, and we must act.
We also must stand vigilant against those who attempt to exploit the uncertainty of the moment to sew division, subvert the rule of law, and promote violence
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-20, 5:03pm
I can assure you Rob, I am as sick and tired of the nonsense as you are. We would probably define “nonsense” differently, but I am fine to just say this crap has to stop.
To that end, I seldom seek out news sources yet I can't escape it.IL, from the bottom of my heart - Thank You. I'm feeling hope in that though we often don't agree, you yourself are tired of this. Thank You. Rob
Maybe she's just tired of hearing about it, or something else. I'd hate to guess at motives.
Teacher Terry
8-25-20, 7:17pm
Tradd, I go home every 2 years. The media said that he was in stable condition but my sister said not really accurate. He lost his colon, is paralyzed and his liver is damaged. He is back in surgery today. The condos on the lakefront and the boats in the harbor don’t belong to working class people.
Tradd, I go home every 2 years. The media said that he was in stable condition but my sister said not really accurate. He lost his colon, is paralyzed and his liver is damaged. He is back in surgery today. The condos on the lakefront and the boats in the harbor don’t belong to working class people.How do they get all those rich folks to work in the grocery stores and gas stations and garbage collection and schools and hospitals and car dealerships and boat repair shops and hardware stores and police & fire stations and landscape services and hotels and restaurants and barber shops and movie theaters and about a thousand other service or manufacturing jobs in the city?
Lakefront property is a hell of a lot different than the rest of the city.
He’s not a nice guy, but he’s going to be elevated to sainthood like other thugs. He has a history of illegal gun possession, sexual assault, concealed carry without a permit, etc. There were warrants out for his arrest at the time of the incident.
He may not be a nice guy, but to his kids he is probably a hero. You don't repeatedly shoot a parent in front of his children aged 3, 5 and 8. What are the chances they will grow up seeking a harmonious relationship with law enforcement?
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-20, 8:41pm
He’s not a nice guy, but he’s going to be elevated to sainthood like other thugs. He has a history of illegal gun possession, sexual assault, concealed carry without a permit, etc. There were warrants out for his arrest at the time of the incident.In my world that does not justify cold blooded attempted murder via an insufficiently vetted sociopath/psychopath, accruing a pension while masquerading behind a badge as "law enforcement" - all the while starring in the role of armed and dangerous criminal ( the sociopath/psychopath who pulled the trigger, I mean). Indeed your world does not have to resemble mine - but please be aware if you would that I'm far from the only one living in this world with this world view. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-20, 8:44pm
He may not be a nice guy, but to his kids he is probably a hero. You don't repeatedly shoot a parent in front of his children aged 3, 5 and 8. What are the chances they will grow up seeking a harmonious relationship with law enforcement?Not only the kids here - after Kenosha something in me changed. I now am truly afraid to live in this country. Terrified - no - only when I see "law enforcement" around. It's much more a permanent low grade fear. Rob
Not only the kids here - after Kenosha something in me changed. I now am truly afraid to live in this country. Terrified - no - only when I see "law enforcement" around. It's much more a permanent low grade fear. Rob
Then leave and go to Mexico.
He may not be a mice guy but that doesn’t mean the cops are the judge, jury and attempted executioner. That’s what the court system is for. And why juries are not told of prior arrests or convictions during a trial.
When I served on a jury many moons ago we were deliberating and a couple of the jurors commented that he had probably been guilty of something at some time. But the evidence was pretty clear that he had not done the current crime. (Selling drugs to a cop). When I pointed this out they relented and we voted not guilty. That’s how our criminal justice system is ‘supposed’ to work.
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-20, 9:05pm
Then leave and go to Mexico.Your comment? Not going to change the truth of what I just said. Instead of directing snark my way.....why not direct it to the actual guilty party here - the insufficiently vetted sociopath/psychopath who pulled the trigger seven (7!!! 1 -2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7) times to begin with? Rob
Rob,
What's your evidence for "insufficiently vetted", "sociopath/psychopath"? And how do you know, at this point, why the trigger was pulled?
I didn’t say they were. I was pointing out the tendency of many in the media, activists, etc, to whitewash the guy’s background and make him into a choir boy.
From 2015: https://racinecountyeye.com/police-k9-dozer-helps-subdue-man-who-pulled-gun-at-bar/
And the outstanding warrants, issued 7/7/2020
https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.html?caseNo=2020CF000736&countyNo=30&index=0&mode=details
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-20, 9:12pm
He may not be a mice guy but that doesn’t mean the cops are the judge, jury and attempted executioner. That’s what the court system is for. And why juries are not told of prior arrests or convictions during a trial.
When I served on a jury many moons ago we were deliberating and a couple of the jurors commented that he had probably been guilty of something at some time. But the evidence was pretty clear that he had not done the current crime. (Selling drugs to a cop). When I pointed this out they relented and we voted not guilty. That’s how our criminal justice system is ‘supposed’ to work.Your first paragraph, jp1? Nicely sums up exactly why I am now afraid to live in America. US police are more and more behaving like their colleagues in the 3rd world and are both illegally and unconstitutionally behaving indeed as if judge, jury, and executioner. I deserve better and I hope you'all understand that you do, too. Rob
Your comment? Not going to change the truth of what I just said. Instead of directing snark my way.....why not direct it to the actual guilty party here - the insufficiently vetted sociopath/psychopath who pulled the trigger seven (7!!! 1 -2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7) times to begin with? Rob
It wasn’t snark. You’re scared witless, by your own admission, to live in the US. Why don’t you leave then? I’m sure you’ll find the federales and the cartels more to your liking.
I’m with Bae.
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-20, 9:17pm
It wasn’t snark. You’re scared witless, by your own admission, to live in the US. Why don’t you leave then? I’m sure you’ll find the federales and the cartels more to your liking.
I’m with Bae.I see your comment as very snarky in the sense that you give a free pass to the insufficiently vetted sociopath/psychopath who pulled the trigger 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5 - 6 - 7 times......thereby allowing this illegal and unconstitutional cycle of evil and despair to continue. I have thick skin.....slam away, but pray point the finger of blame where it really belongs. Hint: Not me nor Jacob Blake. Rob
Rob,
What's your evidence for "insufficiently vetted", "sociopath/psychopath"? And how do you know, at this point, why the trigger was pulled?
He saw the thirteen second video.
Your first paragraph, jp1? Nicely sums up exactly why I am now afraid to live in America. US police are more and more behaving like their colleagues in the 3rd world and are both illegally and unconstitutionally behaving indeed as if judge, jury, and executioner. I deserve better and I hope you'all understand that you do, too. Rob
We also deserve to not have our president treat our election like the president of Belarus does, but here we are.
gimmethesimplelife
8-25-20, 9:21pm
We also deserve to not have our president treat our election like the president of Belarus does, but here we are.Agreed 100 percent! Rob
frugal-one
8-25-20, 9:41pm
Then leave and go to Mexico.
You know, I never thought I would agree with givemethesimplelife... but I wish I could leave this country. I have checked into Canada but, of course, they don't want a retired person unless they have mega-bucks. I never thought in my lifetime I would say this. I have always been very patriotic but the current administration and gun violence makes me feel differently. We are no longer a respected country. If trump wins, it will only get worse IMO. His alienation of our allies and his disintegration of environmental laws plus a myriad of other things makes this a place no longer a good place to be. Unless things change, it will only get worse. Canada and some of the Scandinavian countries look like a much better alternative. If only.....
He saw the thirteen second video.It's too bad the video we all saw didn't show everything. After reading maybe 20 news accounts of the incident I finally ran across one mentioning that a witness heard the officer yell "Drop the knife" before firing. Unfortunately the videos of the incident don't show the level of detail required to see him possibly grabbing a knife in the vehicle, and the media seems dis-interested in appearing less than outraged less the "peaceful protesters" turn on them.
I do know that if I were trying to restrain and arrest a subject with a knife I'd use whatever force necessary to prevent grievous injury or death to myself or others. Also anyone trained in firearms and the acceptable use of deadly force are also trained to fire a "double tap" if the situation calls for the use of deadly force. I think 7 shots may be considered excessive by un-involved observers but I can certainly see how the desire to survive a potentially deadly encounter might cause a reasonable person to ensure the threat is eliminated by any means.
I also think it's irresponsible to accuse the officer of being "judge, jury and executioner" without all the details. I'm looking forward to seeing what actually happened after the investigation is complete.
Teacher Terry
8-25-20, 10:02pm
I never said Kenosha wasn’t a Democratic City I said I wasn’t sure anymore as some of the demographics have changed in the 27 years since I left. Reading comprehension can be hard. Police are acting like executioners and society is getting sick of it. It’s not just poor black people that have been abused by police. Countless stories of law abiding citizens being stopped for no reason and harassed. They used the excuse that they looked like someone they are seeking. A college professor was very late to work because of it. Of course the police didn’t believe him.
Countless stories of law abiding citizens being stopped for no reason and harassed.
This.
Just now saw on the local news a story about a local store in a ritzy suburb that's been owned by a black couple for a long time. Cops showed up for some random reason (they were working late, well after the store had closed and weren't doing anything suspicious beyond just being there) and when told that they were the owners of the store the cops demanded "proof". (ignoring a picture of the couple on the wall that was pointed out to the cops.) The cops only relented in their harassment after a neighbor store owner shouted "It's their store! Leave them alone." One of the cops, even after this, insisted that the guy put his key in the door lock to "prove" that it was his store. None of this would have happened if the owners had been white. After all the neighbor store owner was also working late but no one was accusing them of not having a legitimate reason to be there.
I remember hearing about these security guards cleaning up crime infested housing projects, but can't read this article without paying:
https://www.nytimes.com/1992/01/06/nyregion/muslim-guards-security-unit-maintaining-pride.html
This could be an alternative in certain neighborhoods if police are defunded.
frugal-one
8-26-20, 10:20am
It's too bad the video we all saw didn't show everything. After reading maybe 20 news accounts of the incident I finally ran across one mentioning that a witness heard the officer yell "Drop the knife" before firing. Unfortunately the videos of the incident don't show the level of detail required to see him possibly grabbing a knife in the vehicle, and the media seems dis-interested in appearing less than outraged less the "peaceful protesters" turn on them.
I do know that if I were trying to restrain and arrest a subject with a knife I'd use whatever force necessary to prevent grievous injury or death to myself or others. Also anyone trained in firearms and the acceptable use of deadly force are also trained to fire a "double tap" if the situation calls for the use of deadly force. I think 7 shots may be considered excessive by un-involved observers but I can certainly see how the desire to survive a potentially deadly encounter might cause a reasonable person to ensure the threat is eliminated by any means.
I also think it's irresponsible to accuse the officer of being "judge, jury and executioner" without all the details. I'm looking forward to seeing what actually happened after the investigation is complete.
Although in the video the police were not near him and shot him in the back. IMO whether he had a knife or not, is a moot point in this instance.
gimmethesimplelife
8-26-20, 10:31am
Things are now getting yet more ugly due to America's fondness for hiring quasi functional sociopaths/psychopaths as "law enforcement" (what an evil, soul-destroying term that is in America). Because human rights and human life mean absolutely nothing to the many sociopaths/psychopaths employed as US "law enforcement", protests overnight turned deadly. I believe I read there's been at least one death, possibly more.
And here I must confess that I'm a bit of a hypocrite. I had a chance to take off to Wisconsin, sharing expenses with a few other activists from the 85006 who have been laid off and who have been banking their enhanced unemployment monies so they can afford such a trip (supermarket canned goods in a cooler and pitching a tent to save money). I think of Covid, my Mom who's needing more care, my upcoming 2nd interview for a supermarket front end supervisor job, and mostly SteveinMinnesota's recent words regarding outsiders arriving and causing more instability and I turned down the Human Rights Trip To Wisconsin.
I'm not liking myself much for this but SO says I made the right choice and that helps. I just don't know how to forgive America at this point. I doubt I'll ever be able to, I'm too decent of a person and therefore entirely unfit to live in the current form of America.
That all said - something positive to end with. The victims of last May's infamous Dollar Store Incident in the 85008? They are getting a 400K plus settlement from the City of Phoenix. A nice chunk of cash, yes, and they could buy citizenship and a passport legally in Turkey (issues there too, though) with this. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-26-20, 10:36am
You know, I never thought I would agree with givemethesimplelife... but I wish I could leave this country. I have checked into Canada but, of course, they don't want a retired person unless they have mega-bucks. I never thought in my lifetime I would say this. I have always been very patriotic but the current administration and gun violence makes me feel differently. We are no longer a respected country. If trump wins, it will only get worse IMO. His alienation of our allies and his disintegration of environmental laws plus a myriad of other things makes this a place no longer a good place to be. Unless things change, it will only get worse. Canada and some of the Scandinavian countries look like a much better alternative. If only.....I very much respect your realistic honesty. Kudos to you for doing the research and for connecting the dots and realizing the above. Many Americans are incapable of such, as you can see here on a regular basis in the replies to some of my posts. Kudos!!! Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-26-20, 10:51am
Rob,
What's your evidence for "insufficiently vetted", "sociopath/psychopath"? And how do you know, at this point, why the trigger was pulled?
Unfit to wear a badge equals an excessive number of shots and also where the shots were fired. A non armed and dangerous criminal posing as "law enforcement" without sociopathic/psychopathic issues would have tased and/or attempted deescalation.
Had shots needed to be legitimately fired, completely non- indicated in this case, 1 shot perhaps max to a non-lethal area such as a leg would have sufficed. Given that the victim is now parslyzed from the waist down and the children's lives are now destroyed.....I'm OK with the death penalty here for the sociopath/psychopath who pulled the trigger.
One of my neighbors suggested broadcasting the death on pay per view, with collected monies going to a fund whereby the inevitable next Jacob Blake can afford the best attorney possible to royally.snd legally screw over the involved PD for top dollar AND legally destroy the involved officer's lives as much as possible.
Not only is accountability beginning to arrive but public, joyful revenge - at long last - by innumerable victims of US "law enforcement" - long, long, long overdue. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-26-20, 10:54am
Alan, could you edit the above and split.it into a paragraph or two? If I go in to do it, all will be erased as for some reason I can not edit over my phone. Thank You. Rob
iris lily
8-26-20, 11:24am
Alan, could you edit the above and split.it into a paragraph or two? If I go in to do it, all will be erased as for some reason I can not edit over my phone. Thank You. RobI fixed it, putting into paragraphs.
gimmethesimplelife
8-26-20, 11:32am
I fixed it, putting into paragraphs.Thank You, IL. Normally. I catch this but this morning is very stressful due to Wisconsin. Rob
iris lilies
8-26-20, 11:45am
Rob, not that I really care, but why aren’t we having histrionics over Louisiana knife-wielder Trayford
Pellerin?
gimmethesimplelife
8-26-20, 11:51am
Rob, not that I really care, but why aren’t we having histrionics over Louisiana knife-wielder Trayford
Pellerin?Amazing how people who believe in America are able to spin things! No offense meant, IL.....I just find myself amazed at another of your takes. Standing up to America and relentlessly calling it as it really is while trying to spare human life from America? Such is noble and honorable and slightly courageous - definitely not histrionics.
As to your question, I've found I'm more effective as an activist focusing on one illegal and unconstitutional act carried out by a badge wearing sociopath/psychopath at a time. Rob
Rob, I wish you could talk about these things without the hyperbole, the "America is____." Why does the action of one person speak to you for an entire country? Why aren't the good and kind Americans that I see everyday part of your America?
Unfit to wear a badge equals an excessive number of shots
What causes you to come to the conclusion the number of shots were "excessive"?
and also where the shots were fired.
Why does the location of the shots indicate "unfit"? Be specific.
Had shots needed to be legitimately fired, completely non- indicated in this case, 1 shot perhaps max to a non-lethal area such as a leg would have sufficed.
Tell us more about the anatomy of the "non-lethal" areas in the leg. Explain to us how to hit those under stress with a handgun. Please indicate your training and experience in this matter. Please also go into more depth on your "shoot to wound" theory.
I'm OK with the death penalty here for the sociopath/psychopath who pulled the trigger.
Well, OK then...
Rob, you simply don't even know what you don't know.
You have apparently no basis for an informed opinion.
One of my neighbors suggested broadcasting the death on pay per view,
Wow, with extra wow....
public, joyful revenge - at long last
Just sick, Rob, sick.
gimmethesimplelife
8-26-20, 5:43pm
What causes you to come to the conclusion the number of shots were "excessive"?
Why does the location of the shots indicate "unfit"? Be specific.
Tell us more about the anatomy of the "non-lethal" areas in the leg. Explain to us how to hit those under stress with a handgun. Please indicate your training and experience in this matter. Please also go into more depth on your "shoot to wound" theory.
Well, OK then...
Rob, you simply don't even know what you don't know.
You have apparently no basis for an informed opinion.
Wow, with extra wow....
Just sick, Rob, sick.Bae, I will reply to your post tomorrow at length. For now all I will say is this - the attempted murder of/successful crippling of Jacob Blake is much sicker than anything I could ever come up with as a law-abiding individual. More tomorrow. Rob
... much sicker than anything I could ever come up with as a law-abiding individual.
You are already positively salivating over the thought of a pay-per-view public execution of police officers you have already decided are guilty, before the incident has even been examined.
One of my neighbors suggested broadcasting the death on pay per view, with collected monies going to a fund whereby the inevitable next Jacob Blake can afford the best attorney possible to royally.snd legally screw over the involved PD for top dollar
Don't wrongful death attorneys work on for a percent of the settlement?
gimmethesimplelife
8-26-20, 5:51pm
You are already positively salivating over the thought of a pay-per-view public execution of police officers you have already decided are guilty, before the incident has even been examined.Not salivating, Bae. More like resigned and depressed and afraid of America for having sunk to this level. It didn't have to, and I'm not sure there is any going back to what once was even if Biden does get in. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-26-20, 6:01pm
Don't wrongful death attorneys work on for a percent of the settlement?They still will want money for a retainer plus there will be therapy costs, possible childcare costs, potential food/gas/lodging costs, clothing costs....lots of costs involved.
For the record my gut instinct is pay per view is really vile and low. But police actions today are even lower - look at this latest in Kenosha. Perhaps if such a death ever did become viewable on pay per view, this would be some incentive for less sociopathic/psychotic police behavior? Remember, I come from the America where this is a constant, continual issue with no break/reprieve. I can understand that to some of you this is indeed pretty far out there - live in my America for awhile? Experience/see what I have? My neighbor's suggestion will seem like discussing the weather to you - though admittedly depressing when you realize how third world America is for some of it's citizens/residents.
For what it's worth, I'd like to go on the record stating that I wish America had not sunk quite so low. Rob
I have been in several contingency fee cases and I never had to pay a retainer.
Teacher Terry
8-26-20, 9:16pm
Like always the victim is no angel. The victim was not breaking up a domestic disturbance but was seeing his girlfriend who had a restraining order against him. She called police. He did have a knife in his car. Regardless he didn’t need to be shot 7 times. The police and conservatives will use this information to spin a story that he deserved what he got. Kenosha cops have audio but not webcams on their uniforms. If many white people are fed up just imagine how people of color feel.
Regardless he didn’t need to be shot 7 times.
What is the problem with the number "7"?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/us/why-police-shoot-so-many-rounds-trnd/index.html
What is the problem with the number "7"?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/us/why-police-shoot-so-many-rounds-trnd/index.html
I remember when Roy Rogers could shoot the guns out of seven outlaw’s hands without reloading his Colt. Plus he could sing.
I remember when Roy Rogers could shoot the guns out of seven outlaw’s hands without reloading his Colt. Plus he could sing.
Fake news, Trigger did the singing, Roy just lip-synced.
Teacher Terry
8-26-20, 11:36pm
Time to train differently focusing on disarming suspects and negotiation skills. Some people aren’t cut out for the stress of the job. If your first response is to blow someone away consider a different career.
iris lilies
8-27-20, 12:22am
Time to train differently focusing on disarming suspects and negotiation skills. Some people aren’t cut out for the stress of the job. If your first response is to blow someone away consider a different career.
Was that the officer’s first response though?
gimmethesimplelife
8-27-20, 6:40am
It's looking like perhaps I am wrong on this one. There are claims that Jacob Blake was indeed carrying a knife and that the cops did attempt to tase first. 7 shots is still excessive and likely if the above is true there will still be a settlement as 7 shots implies the police could care less for human life - a frequent message enough Americans have had their fill of hearing.
As to bae - the problem here is that trust of police is gone, likely in this lifetime never to return. As much as the police auto assume and auto suspect - residents of lower income areas now do the same to police as the police have broken the law and continue to do so each and every day. At this point the only real l solution is to severely limit their powers to protect human life. Bae and others come across as police apologists - you have this right, I agree. Just don't be surprised when you get a reality check from someone like myself that does not live in your America.
Now that new evidence has come to light I am against capital punishment against the sociopath (I still believe sociopathy and a grave danger to the public is involved due to the 7 shots) involved - termination and prison sentence - though not a long one - would do. And I always did believe pay per view of an execution in this case was going far - though I don"t live in the America many of you do and can understand the thirst for blood behind this. The police have certainly earned my neighbor's comment and then some. But.....I am a fair person and that's going too far here.
Something that you'all - or most of you'all don't understand- Due to so much illegal and unconstitutional behavior on the part of the police - anything period thar they do going forward is going to go under the microscope. Consider it a price tag for contempt for human life, their pride in being militarized, their need for 7 shots in a case like this. Pretty much they only exist as agents of wealth transfer to the.lower classes at this point. That is the truth of America - or rather, one of the truths of America. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-27-20, 6:43am
Time to train differently focusing on disarming suspects and negotiation skills. Some people aren’t cut out for the stress of the job. If your first response is to blow someone away consider a different career.I could not agree more, TT. It's looling like the police were not entirely wrong here but ad usual disregarded human life and still took it too far with 7 shots. I agree the officer involved had no business ever wearing a badge and could not handle basic stress of the job without going too far. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-27-20, 6:48am
Like always the victim is no angel. The victim was not breaking up a domestic disturbance but was seeing his girlfriend who had a restraining order against him. She called police. He did have a knife in his car. Regardless he didn’t need to be shot 7 times. The police and conservatives will use this information to spin a story that he deserved what he got. Kenosha cops have audio but not webcams on their uniforms. If many white people are fed up just imagine how people of color feel.i am white and due to the excess number of shots in this case, I still am afraid to live in America. I can only imagine how POC's must feel. Then police simply go too far and can no longer be trusted. Thankfully, movements are underway to severely limit their powers and every day the police themselves act in such a way that begs for this to happen. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-27-20, 6:55am
What is the problem with the number "7"?
https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/26/us/why-police-shoot-so-many-rounds-trnd/index.htmlit's an excessive number of shots that shows beyond a shadow of doubt how little African American life means to US police. In my America, this is not acceptable and calls for non-violent legal retaliation - though I'll say it again, capital punishment against the sociopath who pulled the trigger 7 times is going too far given new evidence, and I always thought pay per view of such was going far.
I'm much more down with a large, life changing legal settlement for Jacob Blake and termination and a few years in prison for the sociopathic officer involved. Never let it be said that I'm not a humanitarian - here I am advocating that the officer's life be spared, in direct opposition to what many around me think. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-27-20, 7:04am
Was that the officer’s first response though?it's looking like tase was used first. I'll admit that. 7 shots is still excessive and calls for a large settlement irregardless - though once again, a large settlement coupled with a short prison term/permanent criminal record for the sociopathic officer involved would suffice. I am against capital punishment for said sociopath here unlike many around me.
The involved officer should never have worn a badge - perhaps the Kenosha PD's HR function needs to be outsourced to a 3rd party better capable of screening out potential officers with such issues. Rob
happystuff
8-27-20, 10:33am
You know, I never thought I would agree with givemethesimplelife... but I wish I could leave this country. I have checked into Canada but, of course, they don't want a retired person unless they have mega-bucks. I never thought in my lifetime I would say this. I have always been very patriotic but the current administration and gun violence makes me feel differently. We are no longer a respected country. If trump wins, it will only get worse IMO. His alienation of our allies and his disintegration of environmental laws plus a myriad of other things makes this a place no longer a good place to be. Unless things change, it will only get worse. Canada and some of the Scandinavian countries look like a much better alternative. If only.....
Members of my family investigated Ireland and Poland, but 1 too many generations removed. Although, that was not quite 4 years ago, and I don't know if/how things have changed since.
Fake news, Trigger did the singing, Roy just lip-synced.
Trigger knew the truth about America.
happystuff
8-27-20, 10:36am
Trigger knew the truth about America.
As told to him by Mr. Ed.
As told to him by Mr. Ed.
Everybody knows Mr Ed was a Russian plant sent to delay the implementation of color TV so the Democrats could make scary black and white attack ads about Barry Goldwater.
happystuff
8-27-20, 10:48am
Everybody knows Mr Ed was a Russian plant sent to delay the implementation of color TV so the Democrats could make scary black and white attack ads about Barry Goldwater.
That's what they WANTED "everybody" to think! Until Lassie saved the day and proved it was the Republicans trying to maintain the dying "radio" as the predominant voice of the nation - no faces for identification!
Teacher Terry
8-27-20, 11:54am
Rob, if you read Bae’s article the police are trained to all shoot once a officer shoots so when a guy was shot by 5 officers in a bar in Elko and there were 6 cops present the chief of police asked why one cop didn’t shoot. Ugh! Need to be trained differently.
Teacher Terry
8-27-20, 12:04pm
Ireland doesn’t want retirees. My friends stayed a month and were given the Spanish Inquisition before entering the country. Poland is a poor country so your money goes far. Weather leaves something to be desired. Hot and humid summers and long dreary winters. Heavy pollution as they still burn coal. Electricity very expensive so most people don’t have clothes dryers, etc. Polish is very difficult to learn and English isn’t that prevalent. No jobs so many Poles went to other countries for work. There’s a reason my kids live here when they could live there.
happystuff
8-27-20, 1:02pm
Ireland doesn’t want retirees. My friends stayed a month and were given the Spanish Inquisition before entering the country. Poland is a poor country so your money goes far. Weather leaves something to be desired. Hot and humid summers and long dreary winters. Heavy pollution as they still burn coal. Electricity very expensive so most people don’t have clothes dryers, etc. Polish is very difficult to learn and English isn’t that prevalent. No jobs so many Poles went to other countries for work. There’s a reason my kids live here when they could live there.
Well, I'm not a retiree, so that is at least 1 point in my favor. LOL. Any move - in country or out - will more than likely have challenges. As with all things, decisions and choices have to be made.
Rob, if you read Bae’s article the police are trained to all shoot once a officer shoots so when a guy was shot by 5 officers in a bar in Elko and there were 6 cops present the chief of police asked why one cop didn’t shoot. Ugh! Need to be trained differently.I'm surprised at how few people understand the dynamics of a lethal force event. Everyone trained in lethal force understands that it is only used to protect themselves or others from serious injury or death and more often than not requires an immediate response. Are you suggesting that police officers faced with making that decision must first call a time out and poll the others on scene to see which one should react?
Teacher Terry
8-27-20, 2:15pm
Happy, that’s worse there’s not enough jobs.
Teacher Terry
8-27-20, 2:16pm
Alan, not every police encounter should be resolved by shooting.
Alan, not every police encounter should be resolved by shooting.
The number of law-enforcement shootings resulting in death has been running 400-450/year for the past 10 years or so, according to the FBI (*).
So, I suspect most police encounters are indeed not resolved by shooting.
By way of anecdote, most of the law enforcement officers I know manage to go through their entire careers without discharging their weapon except at the target range.
(*) https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2018/crime-in-the-u.s.-2018/topic-pages/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-14.xls
Alan, not every police encounter should be resolved by shooting.
And they're not. It's silly to even suggest that they are. The very act of "shooting" is a lethal force event. As I've mentioned over and over again the rules for lethal force require a reasonable person to believe their life or the life of another is in jeopardy. Police shootings where that jeopardy cannot be shown result in criminal action, the great vast majority of those events prove to be justifiable.
I'm saddened by the sheer number of people who mis-represent every incident and are willing to condemn police and promote violent reactions without any detailed knowledge of what led to the use of lethal force. It's irresponsible and shouldn't be condoned.
Teacher Terry
8-27-20, 2:50pm
Shooting someone in the back isn’t justified. They could have tackled him.
Shooting someone in the back isn’t justified.
Why not, a priori?
I mean, I understand the trope from western movies, but....
They could have tackled him.
That's not how things work.
frugal-one
8-27-20, 2:59pm
Like almost all of our riot-prone cities, Kenosha is pretty solidly Democrat. I would think most of the wealthier Illinois refugees are heading to places like Pleasant Prairie, Salem or Bristol. And not all of the escapees from that ill-managed state are wicked Republicans by any means.
It was wickedly managed under Scott Walker. He did the most damage to date. It is hard to recover from him.
Makes a person wonder if goons are being sent into Democratic states just to cause trouble??? All the people here who are protesting and interviewed request nonviolence. I know my son saw it first hand in Minneapolis.
Teacher Terry
8-27-20, 3:02pm
The cops in Kenosha told the militia guys they were glad they were there and gave them water. Ugh!
happystuff
8-27-20, 3:11pm
Happy, that’s worse there’s not enough jobs.
Yeah, it really is tough all over.
The cops in Kenosha told the militia guys they were glad they were there and gave them water. Ugh!I remember in April of 74 I was in a group of military volunteers bused into Monticello Indiana a few hours after a string of tornadoes leveled the town. The first thing I saw upon entering the town was a fellow sitting in a lawn chair with a shotgun in his lap outside a pile of rubble which was previously a bank. You could tell right away it was a bank because their room sized vault was the only remaining recognizable object. There were others like him protecting what was left of other businesses in the downtown district, all with weapons, hoping to prevent looting as there are always folks hoping to benefit from chaos. I had no idea they were militia! I'll bet they'd be surprised by anyone thinking that.
I guess my take-away from that is that not every person trying to protect their property is some redneck, racist, white nationalist, goon, militiaman. I think they mostly exist in other people's imagination.
happystuff
8-27-20, 4:19pm
I guess my take-away from that is that not every person trying to protect their property is some redneck, racist, white nationalist, goon, militiaman. I think they mostly exist in other people's imagination.
I think where they mostly exist in someone's imagination depends on which side of the gun one is on. Circumstances and situation account for a lot in influencing one's imagination.
Edited to ask a question: Given the situation, was the militia guard told how many people he was allowed to kill - should the situation arise, of course - before the value of the lives surpassed the amount of money he was guarding?
Edited to ask a question: Given the situation, was the militia guard told how many people he was allowed to kill - should the situation arise, of course - before the value of the lives surpassed the amount of money he was guarding?
No, I guess those were simpler times because no roving band of peaceful demonstrators started fires, threw bottles and bricks (and believe me there were plenty of bricks just laying around) or any other action to put someone else in harms way. There were several people killed and many injured that evening, but it was due to the tornadoes, not the citizens protecting their property. What an odd question.
happystuff
8-27-20, 4:52pm
No, I guess those were simpler times because no roving band of peaceful demonstrators started fires, threw bottles and bricks (and believe me there were plenty of bricks just laying around) or any other action to put someone else in harms way. There were several people killed and many injured that evening, but it was due to the tornadoes, not the citizens protecting their property. What an odd question.
Not so odd, since you included an event from 1974 into the thread. And, not so odd, as I was wondering how the value of "things" worth killing for compared to the value of an individual being killed to protect those "things". 1974 or today, I still wonder about the answer to that question.
Not so odd, since you included an event from 1974 into the thread. And, not so odd, as I was wondering how the value of "things" worth killing for compared to the value of an individual being killed to protect those "things". 1974 or today, I still wonder about the answer to that question.I guess that depends on how badly the person trying to take those things wants them. Enough to provoke lethal force? I can't imagine wanting anything that badly, but I'm old school.
happystuff
8-27-20, 4:58pm
I guess that depends on how badly the person trying to take those things wants them. Enough to provoke lethal force?
Ahhh, but then it becomes a life for a life. Different situation.
The initial situation can be resolved easily if the "things" were just let go. But, again, if someone values the "things" more than a life... well, again, the situation changes.
Ahhh, but then it becomes a life for a life. Different situation.
No, that's when lethal force is used. It's not a sport.
happystuff
8-27-20, 5:10pm
No, that's when lethal force is used. It's not a sport.
Not stating it as a sport, stating it as value for value.
And, actually, I think I figured it out. The guarder of the "things" values their own life equal to the value of the "things" being guarded - especially considering the potential for lethal force. The want-er of the "things" (for lack of another descriptor - lol) values their own life equal to the value of the "things" attempting to be obtained - especially considering the potential for lethal force.
Interesting that the value of life seems to come down to the presumed/assigned value of "things".
Okay, got my answer! Thanks for the discussion.
Your Money Or Your Life points out that money, and by extension "things", represent precious hours of your life, hours you can't get back.
Not stating it as a sport, stating it as value for value.
And, actually, I think I figured it out. The guarder of the "things" values their own life equal to the value of the "things" being guarded - especially considering the potential for lethal force. The want-er of the "things" (for lack of another descriptor - lol) values their own life equal to the value of the "things" attempting to be obtained - especially considering the potential for lethal force.
Interesting that the value of life seems to come down to the presumed/assigned value of "things".
Okay, got my answer! Thanks for the discussion.
Actually, I'm not sure that's correct. You're presuming that the threat to "things" is an individual. I don't think that's true anymore, especially recently. An individual will usually avoid resistance to their bad intentions, a group though is easily transformed to a mob and then all bets are off. In that case it seems the value of "things" is secondary to destruction. How else can you explain molotov cocktails thrown into occupied police cars, occupied buildings being set ablaze, etc?
Luckily, in my tornado scenario, there were no mobs so a little vigilance on the part of property owners and others responsible for "things" ensured no further problems.
happystuff
8-27-20, 5:32pm
Actually, I'm not sure that's correct. You're presuming that the threat to "things" is an individual. I don't think that's true anymore, especially recently. An individual will usually avoid resistance to their bad intentions, a group though is easily transformed to a mob and then all bets are off. In that case it seems the value of "things" is secondary to destruction. How else can you explain molotov cocktails thrown into occupied police cars, occupied buildings being set ablaze, etc?
Luckily, in my tornado scenario, there were no mobs so a little vigilance on the part of property owners and others responsible for "things" ensured no further problems.
I will be the first to admit that different scenarios call for different analysis. Given the militia guard's life "value" based on the amount of money he was guarding, considering the lethal potential... again, I'm happy with the answer I came up with.
Keeping things simple for myself, if it came down to the possibility of me killing to keep my "things" or of someone killing me to get my "things"... no contest - the "things" go. :)
Edited to add: Aw, man! Trying to make homemade wheat thins during this exchange and I burnt a batch. :( LOL
Edited to add: Aw, man! Trying to make homemade wheat thins during this exchange and I burnt a batch. :( LOL
I'm sorry to be a part of that, but if it makes you feel any better I spent my downtime during this exchange re-heating yesterday's cottage ham, green beans and red potatoes. Oh my, it was tastier the second time around than the first!
iris lilies
8-27-20, 7:03pm
Alan, not every police encounter should be resolved by shooting.
What? I cant even respond to this, it is ridiculous to imply every encounter is resolved with a shooting, or anyone wants that.
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/08/27/us/kyle-rittenhouse-kenosha-shooting-video.html
happystuff
8-27-20, 8:39pm
I'm sorry to be a part of that, but if it makes you feel any better I spent my downtime during this exchange re-heating yesterday's cottage ham, green beans and red potatoes. Oh my, it was tastier the second time around than the first!
No worries - it was only one tray and around here, even "well done" wheat thins get eaten - LOL.
I love leftovers and yours sound really good!
I'm sorry to be a part of that, but if it makes you feel any better I spent my downtime during this exchange re-heating yesterday's cottage ham, green beans and red potatoes. Oh my, it was tastier the second time around than the first!
I love it when the leftovers are even better!
frugal-one
8-27-20, 8:54pm
[QUOTE=frugal-one;361432]It was wickedly managed under Scott Walker. He did the most damage to date. It is hard to recover from him.
Makes a person wonder if goons are being sent into Democratic states just to cause trouble??? All the people here who are protesting and interviewed request nonviolence. I know my son saw it first hand in Minneapolis.
----------------
KYLE Rittenhouse, the alleged Wisconsin protest shooter who killed two people, is a Trump supporter and attended a campaign rally in January.
The 17-year-old proudly uploaded a clip from the rally to his TikTok page.
I love it when the leftovers are even better!
Me too! And it's a good thing because it looks like we'll be trying it again for lunch tomorrow. I really need to learn portion control when cooking.
It was wickedly managed under Scott Walker. He did the most damage to date. It is hard to recover from him.
Makes a person wonder if goons are being sent into Democratic states just to cause trouble??? All the people here who are protesting and interviewed request nonviolence. I know my son saw it first hand in Minneapolis.
I think on balance Scott Walker was good for Wisconsin. We certainly aren’t suffering from the massively underfunded pensions and bad credit Illinois is currently dealing with. And he did help eliminate the unions’ power to create closed shops in government employment, much to the fury of the unions and the politicians they funded.
As to the theory that the violence we are currently seeing is the work of goons hired for some purpose to create chaos while the peaceful people are home polishing their halos, if there was substantial proof of that wouldn’t the media be trumpeting it all over?
Teacher Terry
8-28-20, 1:48am
Walker was anything but good for Wisconsin. He ruined the living wages that public employees received. Most teachers, etc retired if they could because of him.
As to the theory that the violence we are currently seeing is the work of goons hired for some purpose to create chaos while the peaceful people are home polishing their halos, if there was substantial proof of that wouldn’t the media be trumpeting it all over?
Not necessarily. When it was confirmed a cou POP me weeks ago that umbrella man in Minneapolis was a white supreme sit and not a BLM supporter it barely made a peep in the news. Sure, there were a few articles about it but it didn’t became part of the big conversation.
Walker was anything but good for Wisconsin. He ruined the living wages that public employees received. Most teachers, etc retired if they could because of him.
That was the threat back in 2010, but schools and governments still seem to be functioning. We did see that when workers had the option, they left the unions in droves.
dado potato
8-28-20, 10:48am
I think on balance Scott Walker was good for Wisconsin. We certainly aren’t suffering from the massively underfunded pensions and bad credit Illinois is currently dealing with.
Public employee pensions in the USA are funded about 72%, on average. The states with the greatest underfunding issues hover around 40% funded: IL, KY, NJ, and CT.
The Wisconsin Retirement System (WRS) has been hovering around 100% funded... The WRS was created (by merging various predecessor pensions) in 1975 on the principle of "shared risk". Unlike other states, whose legislatures define the retiree benefits, and often include a COLA like Illinois' 3% per year, WRS benefit varies as a function of the returns that are earned on WRS investments.
The WRS functioned on the shared risk principle since 1975, long before Gov Walker was in office. Walker's government did institute some reforms in the formulas for employee vesting, matching, etc. Walker's reforms likely did slightly improve the solvency of the WRS.
http://reason.org/commentary/the-wisconsin-retirement-system-is-fully-funded-and-a-model-for-other-states
Not necessarily. When it was confirmed a cou POP me weeks ago that umbrella man in Minneapolis was a white supreme sit and not a BLM supporter it barely made a peep in the news. Sure, there were a few articles about it but it didn’t became part of the big conversation.
Still not buying the Reichstag fire meme. The media loves a right wing villain. Look how they piled on those Covington HS kids.
Teacher Terry
8-28-20, 12:11pm
All the people that could retire did.
frugal-one
8-28-20, 1:21pm
I think on balance Scott Walker was good for Wisconsin. We certainly aren’t suffering from the massively underfunded pensions and bad credit Illinois is currently dealing with. And he did help eliminate the unions’ power to create closed shops in government employment, much to the fury of the unions and the politicians they funded.
As to the theory that the violence we are currently seeing is the work of goons hired for some purpose to create chaos while the peaceful people are home polishing their halos, if there was substantial proof of that wouldn’t the media be trumpeting it all over?
Walker sucked for Wisconsin.... depleted the funds that were to fix the roads, got FoxConn that is still not doing what they said they would do, plus others that I can't glean off the top of my head right now. And, why is the media not trumpeting that the kid who killed the people in Kenosha as a trump supporter... where on Fox News (trump's favorite station) they are basically heralding the kid a hero. I would say that is bringing in outside forces to cause havoc!!! This reminds me of Hitler bringing in young men... except here it is called a militia. trump's ads are talking how things are going to be worse under Biden. I truly don't see how.
All the people that could retire did.
ThatÂ’s a pretty broad statement. I could have retired but didnÂ’t for another ten years. I wasnÂ’t all that outraged over paying half of my pension contribution. It was still a good deal.
Still not buying the Reichstag fire meme. The media loves a right wing villain. Look how they piled on those Covington HS kids.
I suppose the kid that went to Kenosha and killed a couple of protestors is just a random fluke. Although an entirely predictable fluke. As we’ve seen time and again wherever there are BLM protestors there are sure to be trump fanboys out to kill them. What was not predictable was that he would become a hero to the right but apparently white nationalism advisor to the president, Stephen Miller and Tucker Carlson both think he is.
I suppose the kid that went to Kenosha and killed a couple of protestors is just a random fluke. Although an entirely predictable fluke. As we’ve seen time and again wherever there are BLM protestors there are sure to be trump fanboys out to kill them.There seems to be a lot of video of that incident. It looks like he was being chased down the street by a small group, at least one with a handgun. It appeared to me that if he hadn't fallen down he may have gotten away unharmed but once he was down and the group continued to advance, what was their intent? I wonder what any one of us here would have done at that point?
Teacher Terry
8-28-20, 1:54pm
Alan, I wouldn’t shoot anyone. I also wouldn’t have been carrying a gun. To bring one to a protest is to entertain the idea that you will be using it. Stay home if you feel that threatened.
I wonder what any one of us here would have done at that point?
I suspect I wouldn't go wandering around cosplaying at some protest outside my community carrying a rifle in the first place.
I suspect I wouldn't go wandering around cosplaying at some protest outside my community carrying a rifle in the first place.
I suspect I wouldn't either, but people do stupid things sometimes so let's ding him for that. I think the legal question will be, did he reasonably feel his life was in danger from the group chasing him, and was the use of lethal force justified. The various videos seem to show him making every effort to retreat before falling down and at least one person chasing him fired a weapon.
I don't think most people commenting on this in the media and elsewhere are doing so honestly.
Too much attention is being given to the shooter and his victims are generally not mentioned. Here is an article that says their names. One was a volunteer medic.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/kenosha-protesters-killed-who-were-they-anthony-huber-joseph-rosenbaum
Teacher Terry
8-28-20, 5:33pm
I honestly find this kid’s mom disgusting! She provided the weapon and drove him there. I would liked to see her charged with child abuse and accessory to a crime. If you look on social media this kid was being groomed to be deviant. As a small child he is holding the assault rifle for pictures. Lots of lives ruined because his parents don’t have 2 brain cells to rub together. I wouldn’t blame the parents usually but given the circumstances they are culpable.
If you look on social media this kid was being groomed to be deviant. As a small child he is holding the assault rifle for pictures.
I taught my daughter how to run a M1918 BAR and a M1919 Browning when she was quite young. This is probably what led her to her life of crime.
Teacher Terry
8-28-20, 10:24pm
I seriously doubt you drove her as a minor to a riot with a gun and dropped her off.
I seriously doubt you drove her as a minor to a riot with a gun and dropped her off.
Just the County Fair, which can get feisty during the auction events.
I seriously doubt you drove her as a minor to a riot with a gun and dropped her off.Did she drive him to a riot or did she drive him to work? I read somewhere today that he had a job in Kenosha. Also, did she know he had a rifle with him? It's easy enough to break down an AR-15 and carry it in a backpack.
Lots of lives ruined because his parents don’t have 2 brain cells to rub together. According to......who? Someone making assumptions and making judgements without asking a single question?
Teacher Terry
8-28-20, 11:02pm
Look at the pictures his mom took when he was little. I would guess that he was a white supremacist in training. Carry on making excuses for that sorry family. That killer kid is unfortunately also a victim.
Too much attention is being given to the shooter and his victims are generally not mentioned. Here is an article that says their names. One was a volunteer medic.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/aug/27/kenosha-protesters-killed-who-were-they-anthony-huber-joseph-rosenbaum
didnt mention, all three were convicted felons.
didnt mention, all three were convicted felons.
Then thank God they were shot and two were killed in cold blood.
Rosenbaum's name alone would have been enough to get him killed in the streets in Germany 80 years ago. We're not there yet.. but give it time.. like four more years.
Rosenbaum's name alone would have been enough to get him killed in the streets in Germany 80 years ago. Was he the one who hit the boy with a skateboard?
Was he the one who hit the boy with a skateboard?
No, that was Anthony Huber. The reports are that there was an altercation at a service station; the 17 year old shot Mr. Rosenbaum; the 17 year old fled on foot with his rifle; the crowd identified him as having just shot someone; Mr. Huber hit him with the skateboard to stop him; and the 17 year old shot Mr. Huber, who staggered off and died of his gunshot wound.
I read that the 17 year old tried to enter the Marine Corps and the Corps turned him down. They do not reveal why as that is a privacy violation.
If the Marines turned him down, I imagine there were signs that there was something wrong with him, and someone should have intervened earlier. I wonder what the process is if a recruiter is alarmed by someone, what they can do to spot a potential risk to society.
Teacher Terry
8-29-20, 12:07pm
DMC, I had many clients that got a felony young usually for drugs and led crime free lives for decades. They became my clients when they were disabled and needed to retrain for a new line of work. Lots of 18-19’s year olds make dumb mistakes never to be repeated.
Then thank God they were shot and two were killed in cold blood.
Rosenbaum's name alone would have been enough to get him killed in the streets in Germany 80 years ago. We're not there yet.. but give it time.. like four more years.
Just saying they weren’t on there way to choir practice. I’m sure more will come out as there is plenty of video out there. I wouldn’t be surprised if the claim of self defense will stand. One attacker threw something at him, one hit him with a skateboard, and one had a gun out.
im surprised there haven’t been more shot. Lots of people looking for trouble, some will find it.
DMC, I had many clients that got a felony young usually for drugs and led crime free lives for decades. They became my clients when they were disabled and needed to retrain for a new line of work. Lots of 18-19’s year olds make dumb mistakes never to be repeated.
one was a sex offender, the other Two had assault charges. The one with the pistol should not legally have had it. Not sure of the laws about the 17 year old, it differs by state.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the claim of self defense will stand.
You may be right. He IS white afterall.
You may be right. He IS white afterall.I think DMC is right because the boy was being chased by a group that included at least one person with a handgun displayed and a few others who appeared intent on catching him. Throw in a few gunshots from who knows where and I think even a white boy could reasonably assume his life was in danger. One of the hallmarks of justice is that even people you don't approve of have a right to defend themselves.
iris lilies
8-29-20, 1:37pm
A pox on all of these actors.
As for the Armed Services recruiter who didn’t report the 17 year old kid—putting that responsibility on him seems very far reaching and impractical. What legal standards were in place to require that? None. Society is open, we are not a “0 tolerance” place like schools nor would I want us to be.
The guy cleaning his gun in my neighborhood that merited a Nextdoor post is trouble. But posting about his gun activity was forbidden by Nextdoor. Not because gun cleaning is a valid and legal activity (it is) but because he is black. The post was deemed racist and Nextdoor authority zapped it. Sometimes troublemakers can be reported and monitored, but only if they are the right color.
Funny how people might want to chase and catch a guy who shot someone. Imagine that.
They should have called a counselor.
iris lilies
8-29-20, 5:09pm
Funny how people might want to chase and catch a guy who shot someone. Imagine that.
So vigilante action now gets our blessing?
I can’t keep up...
So vigilante action now gets our blessing?
I can’t keep up...
I think it depends on the vigilante.
frugal-one
8-29-20, 5:41pm
IMO the kid was the vigilante. Notice how he is not yet in police custody? That speaks volumes.
Well, maybe if all the BLM protestors were carrying guns like the child there would be less stupid children showing up to cause trouble. But seriously I doubt he was at danger of being killed with a skateboard.
Either way, I’ve come to accept that for some people nothing a BLM protestor does is the right thing and everything a white thug with a gun does is.
Maybe everyone should just stay home. People wouldn’t be attacked, business wouldn’t be looted, and burned. And no one seems to be concerned about spreading the virus.
Teacher Terry
8-29-20, 8:32pm
The right to assemble is one of our basic rights. Protests have affected social change.
Maybe everyone should just stay home. People wouldn’t be attacked, business wouldn’t be looted, and burned. And no one seems to be concerned about spreading the virus.
Indeed. If the kid had stayed home there'd be less dead people, he wouldn't be facing murder charges, and since he wasn't wearing a mask he's also now facing the risk that he got infected with covid. When I was 17 my parents certainly wouldn't have let me go to another state to risk harming myself and others the way this kid's parents did.
I guess your ok with the mob burning and looting. No one seems worried about them spreading the virus.
Thankfully this mayhem has not started in my area. I feel sorry for the people trapped living and working there. Who would want to buy a home there? Who would want to start a business?
17 is old enough to travel, many went into the service at that age.
How would you feel if they start burning down San Francisco? This is not peaceful protest, this is rioting, looting , and vandalism. It needs to stop, we can’t have mob rule.
Teacher Terry
8-29-20, 11:53pm
There’s a video of this kid beating up a teenage girl a few days before. The military rejecting him is also a clue that this kid is troubled.
I guess your ok with the mob burning and looting. No one seems worried about them spreading the virus.
Thankfully this mayhem has not started in my area. I feel sorry for the people trapped living and working there. Who would want to buy a home there? Who would want to start a business?
17 is old enough to travel, many went into the service at that age.
How would you feel if they start burning down San Francisco? This is not peaceful protest, this is rioting, looting , and vandalism. It needs to stop, we can’t have mob rule.
You’re right it’s not peaceful. He was determined to cause a problem. And he succeeded . Hopefully the shit turd will spend the rest of his life in jail. He deserves it.
You’re right it’s not peaceful. He was determined to cause a problem. And he succeeded . Hopefully the shit turd will spend the rest of his life in jail. He deserves it.
does he get a trial, or do you want him lynched?
does he get a trial, or do you want him lynched?
Of course he deserves a trial. And if he didn’t own the gun his parents may deserve a trial too.
Lots of 18-19’s year olds make dumb mistakes never to be repeated.
Sure, but why ask other marines to rely on them in hazardous situations In the hope that the dumb mistakes will never be repeated?
Teacher Terry
8-30-20, 11:08am
L, you took my words out of context. I agree with the marines not taking him. I was talking about something else entirely and you know it. No one is okay with looting but those people aren’t the peaceful protesters. Reno put a end to the rioting by letting people protest until 7 and then having a curfew. The outside troublemakers didn’t hang around for many days.
Terry, I knew exactly what you meant, and also noted it, that if the Marines refused him entrance, there might have been something very wrong with him that they picked up on. I trust the Marines, and if they thought he was off, then he was off.
Terry, I knew exactly what you meant, and also noted it, that if the Marines refused him entrance, there might have been something very wrong with him that they picked up on. I trust the Marines, and if they thought he was off, then he was off.It could also be because he's only 17 and may not have graduated high school at the time. I've learned to never trust narratives based on incomplete information.
Good point, Alan, my dad joined the Marines at 16 in WWII and he had to falsify his birth certificate to do it. For years I couldn't figure out how old he really was.
Teacher Terry
8-30-20, 12:22pm
My step son joined the Air Guard at 17 with a GED 13 years ago. Now he has a college degree and is a officer. The military was good for him. He has been full time 11 of those years.
iris lilies
8-30-20, 2:14pm
L, you took my words out of context. I agree with the marines not taking him. I was talking about something else entirely and you know it. No one is okay with looting but those people aren’t the peaceful protesters. Reno put a end to the rioting by letting people protest until 7 and then having a curfew. The outside troublemakers didn’t hang around for many days.
Then you have law abiding protestors.
Here, the curfew was a signal for badnicks to come out and commit arson, murder, etc. Once again, just having a law/ curfew will not ensure law abusers suddenly change their stripeS.
I ‘m not entirely opposed to a city -wide curfew for a short time, but that shipped sailed weeks ago in Portland.
Teacher Terry
8-30-20, 2:36pm
Kenosha instituted a 7 pm curfew a few days ago. Not sure how it worked.
frugal-one
8-30-20, 3:21pm
I guess your ok with the mob burning and looting. No one seems worried about them spreading the virus.
Thankfully this mayhem has not started in my area. I feel sorry for the people trapped living and working there. Who would want to buy a home there? Who would want to start a business?
17 is old enough to travel, many went into the service at that age.
How would you feel if they start burning down San Francisco? This is not peaceful protest, this is rioting, looting , and vandalism. It needs to stop, we can’t have mob rule.
the "They" you are referring to may not be who you think it is!
frugal-one
8-30-20, 3:22pm
does he get a trial, or do you want him lynched?
Who knows? He is not even in custody yet.
Who knows? He is not even in custody yet.I see you've made this claim several times. I think many sources have reported that he was arrested in Illinois and is awaiting extradition to Wisconsin, a task complicated by his status as a minor. Did they get it wrong?
https://www.bullshido.net/anatomy-of-a-catastrophe/
frugal-one
8-30-20, 3:54pm
I see you've made this claim several times. I think many sources have reported that he was arrested in Illinois and is awaiting extradition to Wisconsin, a task complicated by his status as a minor. Did they get it wrong?
No. You are right. I am wrong. I misread.
I see you've made this claim several times. I think many sources have reported that he was arrested in Illinois and is awaiting extradition to Wisconsin, a task complicated by his status as a minor. Did they get it wrong?
I read that he is in juvenile facility in Illinois awaiting moving him to Wisconsin. I don't know if the law in Wisconsin is different and he would be held as an adult, but something stated that he would be tried as adult in Wisconsin.
frugal-one
8-30-20, 8:42pm
It is crazy. The article today about what happened in Kenosha is showing where protesters are arrested but militia is tolerated. I even literally heard on the news "We appreciate you guys. We really do" while a vehicle marked "Sheriff" was tossing water bottles to men carrying rifles. WTH
trump is set to visit Kenosha on Tuesday.... Biden has accused trump of rooting for violence amid unrest in Wisconsin. "He (trump) views this as a political benefit." "He's rooting for more violence, not less. And it's clear about that."
It is crazy. The article today about what happened in Kenosha is showing where protesters are arrested but militia is tolerated. Is it illegal in Kenosha to be armed in front of a business? If not, what would be the grounds for arrest?
It is crazy. The article today about what happened in Kenosha is showing where protesters are arrested but militia is tolerated.
What would they arrest "militia" for? (Assuming they are simply marching around and not "brandishing"?)
I even literally heard on the news "We appreciate you guys. We really do" while a vehicle marked "Sheriff" was tossing water bottles to men carrying rifles. WTH
I have been trained to do similar to de-escalate situations when civilians are trying to "help".
What would you have the police say/do to these folks?
gimmethesimplelife
8-30-20, 9:19pm
There was a shooting with a fatality in my beloved Portland where I spent 5.5 years of my life. I was afraid this might happen - and now that it has, I hope it's not open season. I lived in 97215 and 97206. Both as I remember were a few steps up for me - stable in city neighborhoods, safe with orderly yards and most people working. I could not have forseen 89 nights of intense protest in Portland, now featuring a fatality.
I'm all for protest - but is anyone listening? It's spiraling out of control with little to show for it, with the potential for more deaths. I grieve for Portland - at least the Portland I remember. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-30-20, 9:23pm
Came back to add - realistically, maybe what Kenosha and Portland are teaching us is that it's essentially hopeless. Maybe we would be best served by splitting the US into separate countries based on political persuasion. I just can't see Trump OR Biden/Harris healing such a huge abyss, which is truly what this country has become. Rob
iris lilies
8-30-20, 9:23pm
There was a shooting with a fatality in my beloved Portland where I spent 5.5 years of my life. I was afraid this might happen - and now that it has, I hope it's not open season. I lived in 97215 and 97206. Both as I remember were a few steps up for me - stable in city neighborhoods, safe with orderly yards and most people working. I could not have forseen 89 nights of intense protest in Portland, now featuring a fatality.
I'm all for protest - but is anyone listening? It's spiraling out of control with little to show for it, with the potential for more deaths. I grieve for Portland - at least the Portland I remember. Rob
It spiraled out many weeks ago. As I said above, a pox on all of the actors they just need to cut it out
gimmethesimplelife
8-30-20, 9:25pm
It spiraled out many weeks ago. As I said above, a pox on all of the actors they just need to cut it outI agree with you for once - it's been spiraling for some time but the recent fatality? Adds another level of ick yo it all. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-30-20, 9:26pm
Should have been to it all above. Rob
Came back to add - realistically, maybe what Kenosha and Portland are teaching us is that it's essentially hopeless. Maybe we would be best served by splitting the US into separate countries based on political persuasion.
You might do well to look at the precinct-level map of the US before "splitting" things....
gimmethesimplelife
8-30-20, 9:31pm
You might do well to look at the precinct-level map of the US before "splitting" things....Precint-level? Rob
Precint-level? Rob
https://www.esri.com/en-us/maps-we-love/gallery/presidential-election
You might find it tricky to tease apart the US into different groups by simple geography.
It spiraled out many weeks ago. As I said above, a pox on all of the actors they just need to cut it out
If the cops would just stop killing people like George Floyd I suspect that at least one side of the "actors" would happily go home.
gimmethesimplelife
8-30-20, 9:38pm
https://www.esri.com/en-us/maps-we-love/gallery/presidential-election
You might find it tricky to tease apart the US into different groups by simple geography.I'll click on your link in a sec. Just wanted to say I never said splitting America will/would be easy. It may be necessary in the future if such shootings escalate and this Portland fatality is not an unfortunate one-off. You know me, bae, I have no problem with radical ideas (and this no lomger seems radical to me) to spare human life. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
8-30-20, 9:38pm
If the cops would just stop killing people like George Floyd I suspect that at least one side of the "actors" would happily go home.Exactly!!! Rob
Precint-level? Rob
The whole red state/blue state thing is a fiction. The reality is red rural areas/blue urban areas (and now blue suburban areas thanks to trump's fake law and order BS that doesn't impress college educated suburban folks.) Sure we could break off chunks that would largely be blue if we took the coastal chunks of WA, OR, and CA and left the eastern parts of those states to become attached to Idaho/Utah, etc, but Washington is not monolithicly blue. It's just that Seattle is populous enough to overwhelm the rest of the state electorally. Same with California. There just aren't enough people in the NE part of California and the central valley to counteract the number of people in the coastal and extreme southern sections.
What JP1 said.
I live in probably the most progressive county in one of the most blue/progressive states out there.
And yet here Trump had 25% of the vote in 2016. Hillary got 66%. 9% went to all sorts of other parties.
While this county is made up of hundreds of islands, the people are not sorted already by political belief to their own neighborhoods. The various "tribes" live intermingled. The head of our local Democratic Party lives 6 doors down from the head of the Republican Party, and I, oddly, right between them.
Now, ethnic/political cleansing of the sort Rob mentions tends to get really ugly when your neighborhoods are mixed, and people all look sorta the same. My neighbor from Serbia has some definite opinions on the matter.
Learn to get along, the other paths are far more terrible.
Teacher Terry
8-30-20, 9:54pm
Thanking citizens with guns is just encouraging that type of behavior. If it’s a de-escalation technique it leaves something to be desired.
Thanking citizens with guns is just encouraging that type of behavior. If it’s a de-escalation technique it leaves something to be desired.I know it irritates some people but I don't think it's unusual for police to thank those willing to act as a barrier to probable destruction. That's what the "militia" everyone is so upset about were doing in Kenosha, and they wouldn't have been there if the anarchists hadn't already done so much damage.
If citizens of conscience gathered to prevent your home or business from being burnt to the ground, you'd probably thank them too, wouldn't you?
Teacher Terry
8-30-20, 10:17pm
No I wouldn’t be thanking them. I don’t want a bunch of untrained idiots with guns anywhere near me or my home. That’s why we have police. I have plenty of friends and family in Kenosha that don’t want these idiots around either.
No I wouldn’t be thanking them. I don’t want a bunch of untrained idiots with guns anywhere near me or my home. That’s why we have police. I have plenty of friends and family in Kenosha that don’t want these idiots around either.
Wait. So you're saying that you don't want clowns like Zimmerman and Rittenhouse providing assistance to the cops? What could possibly go wrong with that plan? /snark.
No I wouldn’t be thanking them. I don’t want a bunch of untrained idiots with guns anywhere near me or my home. That’s why we have police. I have plenty of friends and family in Kenosha that don’t want these idiots around either.
Fair enough, but remember, if the protesters are successful in their demands, good luck with having a police presence sufficient to provide that barrier. But I'm thinking that maybe after your neighbor's home or business had been destroyed and the police can't protect you because your city has required them to avoid conflict or perhaps they've simply decided on their own that the risk to themselves or their future is too great to worry much about you and yours, you'll change your mind. Maybe you'll even take up arms yourself once you see the mob coming for you.
Wait. So you're saying that you don't want clowns like Zimmerman and Rittenhouse providing assistance to the cops? What could possibly go wrong with that plan? /snark.Yes, they may be attacked by bad actors, but that's not the point is it? I'm thinking your point is that the bad actors wouldn't have been forced to attack if the "clowns" hadn't been there. Have I got that right?
Teacher Terry
8-30-20, 10:58pm
No one wants to eliminate police. People want some calls handled by other professionals. Social workers, counselors, etc are trained to de-escalate people in crisis. Police are not. Most police have a high school degree or associate. Regardless they aren’t trained in this area. Many human service professionals have master’s degrees. Each profession has their role.
Yes, they may be attacked by bad actors, but that's not the point is it? I'm thinking your point is that the bad actors wouldn't have been forced to attack if the "clowns" hadn't been there. Have I got that right?
If we start having Untrained clowns with guns cosplaying as cops all over the place it’s pretty much a guarantee that there will be lots of needlessly dead people because the predictions about trump causing civil war 2.0 will have come true.
ApatheticNoMore
8-31-20, 11:35am
Learning to get along overall is maybe dependent on removing Trump as president. He escalates everything (in his racist, cult of himself, mob boss way), de-escalates nothing. I have little hope of good leadership, they are mostly all it for themselves and follow the money, but Trump makes everything worse, the parts of people he activates in order to help himself are worse.
Learning to get along overall is maybe dependent on removing Trump as president. He escalates everything (in his racist, cult of himself, mob boss way), de-escalates nothing. I have little hope of good leadership, they are mostly all it for themselves and follow the money, but Trump makes everything worse, the parts of people he activates in order to help himself are worse.
Do you really think that if Biden is elected everything changes overnight? I think not. Some folks have got the bit in their teeth and will not let go.
I heard the President will be bringing his calming influence to Kenosha tomorrow.
Do you really think that if Biden is elected everything changes overnight? I think not. Some folks have got the bit in their teeth and will not let go.
I would agree that Trump's hateful cult has its own momentum; but surely no thoughtful person wants it to persist. (Not to mention the massive grifting going on...)
If nothing else, we would be rid of Stephen Miller, the chief architect of white nationalism in the White House.
ApatheticNoMore
8-31-20, 12:55pm
I don't think all police violence ends if Biden is elected (BLM didn't start under Trump), or that the beliefs that support a Trump disappear. I do think Trump escalates things out of his sheer narcissism and sociopathy, and that he sees tearing the country apart as aiding his reelection. Gah couldn't we just offer Trump legal immunity for life to go away quietly? It's all he probably even wants and if it were up to me I'd gladly cut a deal.
I do wish someone had called a counselor and a social worker and a school guidance counselor a lot sooner on this 17 year old, and I wish this problem could have been stopped with earlier intervention, better parenting, better reactions to what the kid was doing and trying to do.
I would agree that Trump's hateful cult has its own momentum; but surely no thoughtful person wants it to persist. (Not to mention the massive grifting going on...)
If nothing else, we would be rid of Stephen Miller, the chief architect of white nationalism in the White House.
I’m not talking about the right I’m referring to the left. Some people seem to think the violence and rioting will just go away if Biden wins, like flip a switch overnight stop.
iris lilies
8-31-20, 2:10pm
I do wish someone had called a counselor and a social worker and a school guidance counselor a lot sooner on this 17 year old, and I wish this problem could have been stopped with earlier intervention, better parenting, better reactions to what the kid was doing and trying to do.
But how do you know none of this was attempted with this kid?
I don’t intend to be a smart Alec here, but I think of all the times I’ve seen counseling and professional attention and guidance and even The heavy hand of law applied to change behaviors. And those behaviors do not change.
iris lilies
8-31-20, 2:14pm
I’m not talking about the right I’m referring to the left. Some people seem to think the violence and rioting will just go away if Biden wins, like flip a switch overnight stop.
Tradd, you were like this.
Carjackings taking place in my immediate area saw the perps crossing the bridge over to southern Illinois. Oops! That is not Kim Gardner territory. Kim ?Gardener is our city prosecutor who doesn’t do much in the way of prosecuting. Those perps are playing with fire when they get over to the southern Illinois side. Southern Illinois law enforcement is not Chicago. They’re not going to get off as easy.
Meanwhile, all kinds of things happening in St. Louis that don’t even make national news because they are not riots. What they are are absolute reckless lawlessness ramping up to a level that is unheard of. This includes drag racing and freeform shooting downtown. The city fathers put their heads together to say when will it stop!!!?? will someone have to die? And then someone died, a teenage girl was hit by one of the speed racers. So they put up barricade so that no one can drive downtown through streets at all. Well I guess that is one solution.
I don’t intend to be a smart Alec here, but I think of all the times I’ve seen counseling and professional attention and guidance and even The heavy hand of law applied to change behaviors. And those behaviors do not change.
I do think there is a tendency to overstate the capabilities of social work/counseling.....
Tradd, you were like this.
Carjackings taking place in my immediate area saw the perps crossing the bridge over to southern Illinois. Oops! That is not Kim Gardner territory. Kim ?Gardener is our city prosecutor who doesn’t do much in the way of prosecuting. Those perps are playing with fire when they get over to the southern Illinois side. Southern Illinois law enforcement is not Chicago. They’re not going to get off as easy.
Meanwhile, all kinds of things happening in St. Louis that don’t even make national news because they are not riots. What they are are absolute reckless lawlessness ramping up to a level that is unheard of. This includes drag racing and freeform shooting downtown. The city fathers put their heads together to say when will it stop!!!?? will someone have to die? And then someone died, a teenage girl was hit by one of the speed racers. So they put up barricade so that no one can drive downtown through streets at all. Well I guess that is one solution.
Dang.
ApatheticNoMore
8-31-20, 2:41pm
There has been some speed racing here too. This is all due to covid. Noone is enforcing parking (it was deliberately suspended) or apparently speeding laws, because none of this happened before covid here. But a lot of downright weirdness has been going on since then.
frugal-one
8-31-20, 2:53pm
I know it irritates some people but I don't think it's unusual for police to thank those willing to act as a barrier to probable destruction. That's what the "militia" everyone is so upset about were doing in Kenosha, and they wouldn't have been there if the anarchists hadn't already done so much damage.
If citizens of conscience gathered to prevent your home or business from being burnt to the ground, you'd probably thank them too, wouldn't you?
The one who did the killing in Kenosha was of the "militia".... I would not want rogue people with guns in my neighborhood PERIOD!!!
frugal-one
8-31-20, 2:56pm
Thanking citizens with guns is just encouraging that type of behavior. If it’s a de-escalation technique it leaves something to be desired.
Exactly!
frugal-one
8-31-20, 2:58pm
If we start having Untrained clowns with guns cosplaying as cops all over the place it’s pretty much a guarantee that there will be lots of needlessly dead people because the predictions about trump causing civil war 2.0 will have come true.
Civil war has already started.... now it is being called "law and order".
frugal-one
8-31-20, 3:00pm
I heard the President will be bringing his calming influence to Kenosha tomorrow.
snark
frugal-one
8-31-20, 3:03pm
I’m not talking about the right I’m referring to the left. Some people seem to think the violence and rioting will just go away if Biden wins, like flip a switch overnight stop.
The thing that will go away is the constant drama, lying and trying to divide people. It would be refreshing to have a rational person ... not a twittering fool. Bleach, anyone?
Do you really think that if Biden is elected everything changes overnight? I think not. Some folks have got the bit in their teeth and will not let go.
I do think Biden will stop fanning the flames. That alone will do some good.
The one who did the killing in Kenosha was of the "militia".... I would not want rogue people with guns in my neighborhood PERIOD!!!Do you have neighbors?
frugal-one
8-31-20, 4:29pm
Do you have neighbors?
Why do you ask?
If you are going to say they may have guns too.... that is obvious. BUT, they are not going around the neighborhood banishing large assault style weapons.
Why do you ask?
If you are going to say they may have guns too.... that is obvious. BUT, they are not going around the neighborhood banishing large assault style weapons.Have the anarchists shown up at their door yet? I suspect that if they do you'll forever more look at some of those neighbors differently:
https://scontent-ort2-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/118206839_352424992599485_3081882113603635992_n.pn g?_nc_cat=110&_nc_sid=b96e70&_nc_ohc=umtWY1mfKbUAX-366UB&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=1a3ebf04ea0c6d4aa7f3d94ecbb256bc&oe=5F71B387
"Stop Blaming Everything Bad on Anarchists." (https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2020/06/04/stop-blaming-everything-bad-anarchists/)
"In practice, to be an anarchist is to dream of a kinder, more equitable society, and to do one’s best to get us closer to making that dream a reality."
"Don’t believe all this nonsense about anarchists, especially if you don’t even know what anarchism actually is.”
Anarchists are not all that scary. But with the brush that Trump has painted them with, they might even be scarier than (Yikes!) Democratic Socialists. Leo Tolstoy was an iconic anarchist, and one could hardly say he was scary, unless you don't like the prospect of reading War and Peace.
When one of them assassinated McKinley any hope the anarchists had of being accepted in the US was destroyed.
When one of them assassinated McKinley any hope the anarchists had of being accepted in the US was destroyed.
Yes. That's probably why Gandhi and MLK knew that non-violence was so critical to their causes.
When one of them assassinated McKinley any hope the anarchists had of being accepted in the US was destroyed.
Come now. I suspect more people in the USA know how to wear a mask properly than know who McKinley was or how he died.
early morning
8-31-20, 7:46pm
But Ohio never forgets.....
But how do you know none of this was attempted with this kid?
I don’t intend to be a smart Alec here, but I think of all the times I’ve seen counseling and professional attention and guidance and even The heavy hand of law applied to change behaviors. And those behaviors do not change.
That's really sad and unfortunate, that in all the times you have seen counseling and professional and guidance, you have not seen changed behaviors. I have known many people of all ages who have responded well to counseling and changed behaviors and saved their lives.
"But how do you know none of this was attempted with this kid?"
Correct, we have no way of knowing. I don't think I expressed an opinion on what had been done, just that I wish more had been done, and done successfully in the way of intervention. But I can wish that in similar circumstances, the system works better to alert that there is a problem.
17 is really, really young. Maybe because I had three sons, I can't look at this situation and see what you see. I see a really young kid who killed people and ruined his life. And that is terribly sad.
Teacher Terry
8-31-20, 8:37pm
I agree Tybee. I also have 3 sons.
gimmethesimplelife
8-31-20, 8:52pm
I can remember living in the 97206 in SE Portland in the mid 90's. I would come from from work in the Summer and gave a gin znd tonic while sitting on my porch. If you craned your neck far enough you could even see a sliver of the West Hills from my front porch. Those were good days - and that Portland seems a relic of another area.
I just wish some kind of resolution could happen, that America could somehow drop the hypocrisy and be humane and value human life more. Portland is too special and beautiful a place to be destroyed because of America. Rob
But Ohio never forgets.....
I'm not saying his monument makes an excellent sledding hill, but....
I can remember living in the 97206 in SE Portland in the mid 90's. I would come from from work in the Summer and gave a gin znd tonic while sitting on my porch. If you craned your neck far enough you could even see a sliver of the West Hills from my front porch. Those were good days - and that Portland seems a relic of another area.
I just wish some kind of resolution could happen, that America could somehow drop the hypocrisy and be humane and value human life more. Portland is too special and beautiful a place to be destroyed because of America. Rob
This too shall pass. Have faith in that fact. Nothing goes on forever. The spanish flu 100 years ago undoubtedly seemed endless at the time, but eventually it passed. McCarthyism probably seemed endless at the time to the people who were harmed by it but eventually that too passed. Our current problems definitely suck, and those of us not directly affected will hopefully help either get things back on track or help the people being harmed. But eventually things WILL get better. Even if you want to go full on awful, nazi germany didn't last forever. I hope we don't have to go that far down to hit rock bottom, and I doubt that we will because there are enough smart people pointing out the similarities (and differences like the fact that trump is an incompetent boob). At some point portland, and new york, and san francisco, and lots of other cities will become great places to live again. Of that I am absolutely confident.
My friends in Portland want you to know that--contrary to Trump's pronouncements--the city is not on fire, and they're very happy the noisy, low-lying spy plane has finally moved on, after circling for weeks.
And they only tried to burn the mayor’s condo without success. Nothing to see here.
iris lilies
9-1-20, 2:28pm
And they only tried to burn the mayor’s condo without success. Nothing to see here.
Oh in Portland too? St. Louis, Chicago, Portland—, let’s destruct the mayor’s property.
Probably Jane’s friends in Portland Maine that their own lives are not disrupted and about 98% of Portlandia isn’t affected by the writing that is in very specific areas.Course, they are more affected than they know now because the long-term effects are here. And they are many. But they will see.
Teacher Terry
9-1-20, 2:56pm
A black bicyclist was killed in LA by cops. He was violating codes and they didn’t say which codes. Of course he ran because he is black. He dropped a bundle of clothes and a gun fell out. Then he ran leaving the gun behind and both cops shoot him. The insanity never stops. The cops think they are above the law and that’s why all the protests. If they stopped killing people as their first response things would change. In 2016 a white man was killed in a hotel by police. He was crawling on his hands and knees begging and crying asking cops not to kill him. When his pants were sliding down he tried to pull them up and was killed. The video is heartbreaking. The cops were just found innocent.
Oh in Portland too? St. Louis, Chicago, Portland—, let’s destruct the mayor’s property.
Probably Jane’s friends in Portland Maine that their own lives are not disrupted and about 98% of Portlandia isn’t affected by the writing that is in very specific areas.Course, they are more affected than they know now because the long-term effects are here. And they are many. But they will see.
I hope there are long-lasting effects from the demonstrations, or they will have been in vain. Democracy is often messy.
ApatheticNoMore
9-1-20, 3:15pm
Course, they are more affected than they know now because the long-term effects are here. And they are many. But they will see.
how would they ever distinguish the long term effects of that from a pandemic driven recession where supposedly 1/3 of renters are at risk of eviction nationwide, the states and cities are hurting economically (they'd probably be half glad to defund the police considering they have no funding for uh ANYTHING) and have gotten no help etc.. Plus it's an actual fact prisoners have been released not because of BLM, who wield no such power even if they wanted to, but because of covid.
iris lilies
9-1-20, 3:16pm
I hope there are long-lasting effects from the demonstrations, or they will have been in vain. Democracy is often messy.
I agree with this, and there will be long lasting repercussions that some people like and long lasting repercussions that the same people do not like.
I can remember living in the 97206 in SE Portland in the mid 90's. I would come from from work in the Summer and gave a gin znd tonic while sitting on my porch. If you craned your neck far enough you could even see a sliver of the West Hills from my front porch. Those were good days - and that Portland seems a relic of another area.
I just wish some kind of resolution could happen, that America could somehow drop the hypocrisy and be humane and value human life more. Portland is too special and beautiful a place to be destroyed because of America. Rob
I lived all over Portland for more than twenty years, when it was basically a bucolic, one-horse town; then i lived in a Portland suburb for another ten. As far as I can tell, the major problem facing Portlanders is homelessness, as most of the West Coast has a mild climate, conducive to living rough. The cost of housing is another problem that affects most of the area. I haven't seen signs that Portland's being destroyed, but I agree that we need a lot more humane solutions to problems in general.
Teacher Terry
9-4-20, 11:54pm
Two militia members from Missouri were arrested in Kenosha and will appear before a judge on 9/8. The FBI was involved. They could serve 10 years if convicted. I really hope more are prosecuted.
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