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razz
8-29-20, 7:51am
Thought that you might find this interesting reading: https://www.mauldineconomics.com/frontlinethoughts/light-in-the-covid-tunnel

"Light in the COVID Tunnel
Several months ago, Dr. Mike Roizen began to tell me about an innovative new technology called far-UVC being developed by a company called Healthe. He is on their scientific advisory board. Essentially, it uses a specific wavelength of ultraviolet light to kill microorganisms without hurting humans. I was skeptical because I have always been taught that exposure to ultraviolet light was bad for humans. And for good reason; the ultraviolet light that reaches the earth’s surface is dangerous. But not all ultraviolet light reaches that far. And therein lies a story of innovation and perseverance.

Dr. David Brenner, an Oxford-educated physicist at Columbia who applies quantum mechanics to radiation therapy, had a friend die from a superbug caught in the hospital. He became (my word) obsessed with preventing future superbugs from killing people. (The link to his name will bring you to an impressive list of his publications, lectures, and information.)

We have long known ultraviolet light kills viruses and bacteria. The subway trains in Manhattan are exposed to UVC light every night. Many hospital surgical rooms are also exposed to UVC light, of course while humans are not in them, making them very clean rooms for surgery.

In a 2017 TED talk, Brenner explained why a particular wavelength in the ultraviolet light spectrum would not harm humans but still kill superbugs. In 2016, 700,000 people died from exposure to bacteriological superbugs. At the current path we are on, by 2050, the death toll will be 10 million...
Healthe Lighting is already manufacturing devices that look like airport metal detectors. They kill any virus or bacteria on your body as you walk through. One of the main investors is Stephen Ross, a venture capital and private equity investor, who also has an ownership in the Miami Dolphins. They have installed a form of the technology that filters the air in their indoor training facilities. This is from a Miami Herald report.

“From my perspective, and a whole bunch of people I speak with regularly, this is the best tool we have today [to fight coronavirus],” said Fred Maxik, Healthe’s founder and chief technology officer. “We can go in and clean, we can go in and scrub, but at the end of the day, the first sick person that goes into that space, that space is contaminated again. The systems that we’re deploying are systems that are cleaning in real time and cleaning constantly. We reduce that [pathogen] load that’s in that space to the minimum we can.”

Healthe’s multi-level system is designed to inactivate the virus in the air, on players’ lockers, and even on their uniforms—and it’s all completely safe, researchers say.

Here is an ABC News video of an installation at the iconic Magnolia Bakery in Manhattan (I highly recommend their cupcakes). The Air Force is beginning to test and install far-UVC equipment. Seattle’s Space Needle is using it to market their reopening plan. The company already has over $100 million in backlog orders.

Like any new innovation, there are problems and solutions. Let’s deal with the problems first. Right now, installations are relatively expensive, and production is backlogged. But there is a solution which doesn’t require more research. Within a few months, the company says it will be able to produce simple LEDs that emit the proper wavelength. They will likely be expensive at first, but like anything involving technology and chips, costs will fall quickly, enabling wider use. (Today it would take $20,000 to equip a 2,000 square foot bar. The LEDs will drop that price dramatically.)

COVID-19 is devastating restaurants and bars because people are in such close proximity. But these LEDs will be easy to put on the walls and ceiling, or even in regular light-emitting lamps on each table. When somebody coughs or shouts and unknowingly spreads a virus, the far-UVC light will kill it. Will it be perfect? No, if you are kissing someone with COVID-19 or another virus, you may still catch the bug. The light doesn’t go past your skin or eyes.

Can you attach a small strip on every seat in a stadium? Of course. Plus lighting in airports, trains, planes, hotels, in fact, just about everywhere people congregate.

Yes, if you gather at a big outdoor event with no far-UVC lighting, there would be no protection. But (and this is a big but) infection potential should be lower after enough of the virus has been killed."

Yppej
8-29-20, 7:59am
Wouldn't it also kill the good bacteria you need to do things like digest food? Sounds like overkill.

catherine
8-29-20, 9:29am
Wouldn't it also kill the good bacteria you need to do things like digest food? Sounds like overkill.

I was thinking the same thing. Sounds too good to be true and too simplistic. I'd need to see 20 years of data showing that it's targeted JUST for the superbugs we don't want.

JaneV2.0
8-29-20, 11:02am
It sounds like a useful tool in the arsenal.

ApatheticNoMore
8-29-20, 11:03am
It might work, the problem I see as so long as it's expensive almost noone is going to pay the money for it. Realistically. Unless it's mandated by government which might not happen (I could see say California mandating it in restaurants or something, or hey maybe South Korea, and maybe super high risk places like hospitals decide to use it).

Techno fixes only go so far when they hit hard economic and social reality. But if it got as cheap as your average LED lightbulb it will sell maybe (maybe not even there, well heck we all know tech that didn't sell). But if it's costly ... then forget about it.

Take an example of better tech not catching on: so restaurants use styrofoam. Styrofoam is incredibly destructive to the environment, alternative take out containers made of cardboard other paper products etc. exist. They cost a bit more per package. So styrofoam still gets used and even when they try to ban it, bans are opposed and loopholes found.

There is a big gap I think between what tech exists and what tech is adopted. True eventually we all wait a techno-fix regardless (better treatments an eventual vaccine).

Rogar
8-29-20, 11:36am
My educated guess is that our gut microbiome would not be affected by reducing air born bacteria or virus. It's more a result of genetics and what we eat. I think Donald is the only one suggesting we could take UV light or Clorox internally.

I think it's a good idea worth more study.

razz
8-29-20, 4:53pm
Wouldn't it also kill the good bacteria you need to do things like digest food? Sounds like overkill.

Well, perhaps I am naive but this is the scientist whose CV reads http://www.columbia.edu/~djb3/cv.html:
"
"Radiation is very much a two-edged sword - used in the right way it has revolutionized modern medicine - such as through CT scans and as a cure for many cancers. But radiation used in the wrong way can be harmful. To maximize the benefits of the many different types of radiation, we need to understand exactly how they affect us - from our DNA to the whole person.

David has designed new "patient friendly" approaches for prostate cancer radiation therapy that are now in common use worldwide, and he is currently very excited about the prospects of beating pancreatic cancer with new types of radiation.
Over the past 6 years David has also been working towards a safe way to kill drug-resistant bacteria such as MRSA, as well as airborne viruses such as influenza, using a unique type of ultra-violet light."

I expect that, just maybe, he has already seriously considered any hazard to not just beneficial bacteria but from the 'DNA to the whole person' as he does with radiation.

catherine
8-29-20, 4:57pm
I guess my question was not about our microbiome, but about the airborne bugs that might be in the path of the superbugs that kill us, much the same as DDT that was great for mosquitos but bad for many other insects. I'm not saying UV is as potentially lethal to the eco-system as DDT, but I'm just being cautious, like the geezers who wouldn't use microwaves when they first came out.

Something broadcast like that feels like it has potential to eradicate things that are good for us, too. But what do I know?

Yppej
8-29-20, 5:00pm
Almost every if not every treatment and/or medication has side effects, sometimes unforeseen. Thalidomide anyone?

JaneV2.0
8-29-20, 5:05pm
I was envisioning it as a limited exposure in public places kind of thing, though that would be different for employees.

For maximum exposure to microbes, I suppose one could use the old-fashioned method and go outside and dig in the dirt...

JaneV2.0
8-29-20, 5:07pm
Almost every if not every treatment and/or medication has side effects, sometimes unforeseen. Thalidomide anyone?

Yeah--and DES always comes to mind when I see people mindlessly following the latest medical sensation. The great shakeout ensues. Caution is rarely a bad thing.