View Full Version : Family and money
My husband has a very large (lots of siblings and nieces and nephews) family who is extremely nice for the most part, delightful people.
However they have a different culture than my foo with money. IN that they ask each other for money. When one niece got married, we were asked to give money to both her honeymoon fund and her new house fund. We did not, just sent a gift, to which received no response.
We have been practically ordered to pay for father in law's nursing home bills. We were told "it's only a thousand dollars a month." I told husband if he complied, he would be divorced.
Now one nephew has suffered a real setback, but not to his health or ability to work. Loss of material things due to fire. No renters insurance. Family is sending around go fund me requests for money. The request was very sweet, but very impractical--we are supposed to raise 50000 so that he can buy a tiny house. He is thirty years younger than I am and able bodied and college educated, very talented.
I do not understand this and feel angry that we are being asked for money again.
Again, they are delightful people, and I feel really backed into a corner any time I say no to them. But I would NEVER ask them for money, even on behalf of my own children, whom they coincidentally have little interest in, as they are not "blood." Similarly, they have no interest in my parents, so it is a one way street.
What do you guys think?
Wow, that is tough. I would also feel resentful about the "one way street" expectation. I also think "It's only 1k a month" is really presumptuous--it sounds like they just assume people have unlimited funds to throw into the family coffers.
I think you and your DH have to decide what you can realistically afford to contribute to these various life events and call it a day.
My family tends to be a little bit like your DHs in that we do take a somewhat communal approach to each others' needs. BUT we never assume and we are always grateful for whatever we get.
Here's an example:
My brother went through hard times financially and was in danger of losing his house. On one occasion he asked me for a mortgage payment and on another for a health insurance payment, which was rather large. He said he would pay me back. I could afford it, and I also was knee-deep in Dave Ramsey at the time, so I told him that it was a gift--that obligations like that can tear families apart (at least that's what I heard Dave say), and I don't expect him to pay it back.
Fast forward ten years. My brother emails me to say that he is looking into term life insurance to pay for our other sibling's final expenses--this is my alcoholic sibling who is not terminal, but he is getting older and has lived a hard, fast life. I told brother A that I would be happy to pay half. Brother A texts me to say he got the policy. I asked him about how to pay my half and he said, "You helped us out and I don't forget. I'll pay for the life insurance."
Point being, you can only do what you can do. If you can help, that's great, but it shouldn't be an expectation. Hopefully, your DH agrees. If he feels guilty not going full boat with his siblings, you'll have to deal with that, but we are at the stage of our lives when we do have to think of ourselves.
First, I really like the story about your brothers--I admire you all for helping each other out, and for remembering, and not taking each other for granted.
"I would also feel resentful about the "one way street" expectation. I also think "It's only 1k a month" is really presumptuous--it sounds like they just assume people have unlimited funds to throw into the family coffers."
Yes, and yes! I think part of my resentment of the situation is always being made to feel like "shirttail relations." WE are bombarded with emails about how wonderful these kids are, their accomplishments, etc., how they got into this or that amazing graduate program or were published in this or that publication, and then we are asked to contribute to their housing. Not going to happen, especially when one of my own kids did not go to college because he did not want to take out loans, and one is still paying back his student loans.
"I think you and your DH have to decide what you can realistically afford to contribute to these various life events and call it a day."
I like this--just pick a number and if this kind of thing comes up, contribute that number. Unless we feel it is really out of line.
I don't know what husband will do--I told him if he wants to use his tithe from his paycheck to contribute that's fine with me, but I resent being asked to give money to a kid who is college educated and has many more working years than I do.
I like the idea of coming up with our "family policy", a lot.
As for the relative who lost his belongings due to fire and had no renters insurance, maybe donate a small amount. But if someone is so irresponsible to not have renters insurance, which is fairly inexpensive, I would not “reward” that irresponsibility by helping to buy him a house!
FIL’s nursing home bills - perhaps contribute something if your budget allows it - perhaps a couple hundred a month? Being ordered to pay it would peeve me off to no end.
iris lilies
9-8-20, 10:08am
Nursing home expenses are very high and a plan to support someone there from handouts is not viable. Your DH’s family is not practical at all with money.
I would probably give money to the relative whose house burned down, Especially because it’s a one time thing.But the little fantasy about oh let’s set him up for life in his own little house is bogus. And it is not practical, once again, to expect everyone in the family to sacrifice at the level required to give nephew his little house debt free.
This expectation of theirs is an an over estimation of how much the collective kitty will provide. They think they can Stone Soup it up to $50,000 easily, instead they will raise maybe $5,000. This group needs real lessons about money by coming up with budgets and plans on paper.
Generally speaking, I stick to my giving goals which are in this order: bulldogs and animal causes, old buildings, plants. Notice there are no human causes targeted here for funding.
One reason I can be so rigid about giving categories is because my family and DH’s family all are fully functional human beings. So that makes it easy. We had one nephew on DH’s side of the family who was into drugs and got straightened out, and DH‘s father bought the kid new teeth which was $20,000+ well spent. There was brief chatter in the family about how this kid got money and the other nieces and nephews did not, but it’s just talk. There’s no real complaining about it because everyone understands the reality that this kid got a bad deal in life because his mother is a, well, dim wit and worse.
IL is right about the cost of nursing home care. Contributions are not sustainable longterm. Has FIL no assets to pay for his own care with family supplementing it with modest contributions? Did FIL fund all needs within the family over the years and it is now time for the family to support him? Is there clarity and integrity in fund distribution and by whom? Who decided on $1000? If the family is so extensive, $1000 sounds like a very large amount for one portion of the total contribution.
Lots of questions before going further is my thinking.
The film issue was resolved. He went from th as he had VA benefits that they didn't bother finding out about. So that became a non issue and he has passed.
Impractical is a great word for it.
Also last I checked tiny houses in maine on their own land are going for 160k not 50k.
We have decided our go to is 10 per cent of one paycheck for this kind of request
They sound like wonderful people who want to give houses to their family members in need, but to your point, it sounds more like a nice fantasy, unless some of them have tons of surplus money. Plus, is this what the nephew wants? Or is this like an episode of Extreme Makeover in someone's head? Maybe the nephew could do with just some seed money for an apartment or for second-hand furnishings until he figures out his own next step.
iris lilies
9-8-20, 11:20am
The issue of how much to give is coming up in my life right now. Because we are not going on any trips this year, we have surplus of money. DH is always very tight about donations. It’s my thinking that because we’re not blowing money on travel, we might as well donate to the organizations we support that are hurting.
Today I’m sending yet another check to Bulldog Rescue, unsolicited, but volunteered by me because A specific dog with a particular health problem is weighing on me.So DH will likely push back a tad.
I have asked him, hey why don’t we talk about setting a giving budget? His response is silence.So whatever, I will give what I want to give.
Meanwhile, our neighborhood association is nearly flat broke in income because our house tours are canceled. We bring in around $80,000 annually in house tours. A new committee is gearing up to do new kinds of fundraising and the head of that group wants to donate 5% in proceeds to needy people around us. I roll my eyes because this is not why I belong to my neighborhood association. I am perfectly capable of writing my own checks to my own chosen charities, but hell. I will have to go along with this because it is a flat amount and defined. I just want to make sure that this 5% of income is not on top of money we have already budgeted.
Mainly I see here how some people love to spend other people’s money on being Lady Bountiful.
Teacher Terry
9-8-20, 11:34am
I really can’t relate on asking people for money related or not. We give money as wedding gifts because then they can use it how they want. Tybee you guys aren’t even retired yet so definitely need to look out for yourselves. Unless it’s my own kid I am not giving money to someone because of their poor planning.
iris lilies
9-8-20, 11:44am
In these tales are two philosophies highlighted: the collectivist mindset versus the individualist mindset.
We all are a blend of both, , but I think you all know mostly on which side I plant my feet. I see the collectivist mindset all over our society ranging in scale from the person in the office who wants to collect $1 from everyone to buy someone something nice, all the way up to the person in society, a government official, who wants to collect a shit ton of taxes (especially from those who he deems able to pay) to buy nice things for people in our country. And outside our country, for that matter.
Same idea, different scale.
This is definitely not the way my family or SO's family behaves. I've never asked anyone for money nor has anyone asked us. But my sister and I were raised with the expectation that when we became adults we would be self sufficient, because our parents were. I too would be annoyed if SO's family asked him for money. He gives generous gifts to them from time to time, like paying for his mom to come to Hawaii with us back in March. My sister is financially secure and retired so I can't imagine a situation where she would be asking for anything.
IL, families are one more mindset that needs to be added to your list as the challenges are very blurry.
ApatheticNoMore
9-8-20, 11:52am
Marriage is also a very collectivist mindset of combining finances. I don't think a real individualist mindset marries or chooses to share any big expenses.
iris lilies
9-8-20, 11:52am
IL, families are one more mindset that needs to be added to your list as the challenges are very blurry.
I’m not sure what you mean by this.
Do you mean, add “families” to my Personal list of charitable giving along with bulldogs, historic architecture, plants?
If this is what you mean then elaborate.
I don't know.....if your husband's family does not accept your children or your parents, but expect you to contribute to their family....that is a big, hard NO for me. Plus your FIL can get help in paying for a nursing home and the young nephew has just learned a huge lesson...pay the extra $300 a year for renter's insurance!
iris lilies
9-8-20, 11:58am
Marriage is also a very collectivist mindset of combining finances. I've always been against it.
Interesting point.
It is the weirdest thing and I can’t explain it myself, but as a single person who was quite focused on financial independence, I plunged into joint finances with DH immediately upon marriage. I felt like I was holding my nose to jump into the pool of shared resources.
It was scary. It was also scary when I think about it because he handles all of our finances, and I have always joked with him that he could be squirreling away money into that Swiss bank account for all I know. I mean I look at the penciled-in amounts in our checkbook, but that could all be faked. But in retirement I take an active role in looking at balances of our investment accounts so I know where the money is and I talk to our investment advisers, so I know there is no Swiss bank account.
In these tales are two philosophies highlighted: the collectivist mindset versus the individualist mindset.
We all are a blend of both, , but I think you all know mostly on which side I plant my feet. I see the collectivist mindset all over our society ranging in scale from the person in the office who wants to collect $1 from everyone to buy someone something nice, all the way up to the person in society, a government official, who wants to collect a shit ton of taxes (especially from those who he deems able to pay) to buy nice things for people in our country. And outside our country, for that matter.
Same idea, different scale.
Yes, I agree that our thoughts on family giving maps closely to our preferred level of government influence! Interesting.
I think I already told the following story, but...
One of the things I saved from The Purge was something that I "stole" from my BIL's house after my MIL died. BIL was cleaning stuff out and had a huge pile of paper documents next to a shredder that he was working on. He was at work--I was afraid he was shredding important documents so I just started going through them lightly. I came across my MIL's cancelled checks, and I pulled out all of the checks related to gifts she had given DH, me and our kids. That darn stack of checks was an inch thick and encompassed thousands of dollars.
We're not losers or low-lifes always with our hands out. We have pretty much been self-sufficient or at least tried to be. Sometimes we failed at that, and she was always there to catch us. She once said "I'd be a millionaire if I didn't give all my money away. But she didn't say it spitefully--she was satisfied with her simple life and the love of her family.
I took all those checks and wrapped them in a rubber band and I keep them in one of the pigeon holes of my great-aunt's secretary to remind myself of how grateful I am for MIL's love and generosity.
I don't know how this relates to politics, but as most of you know, I do veer toward a sharing political system. Whether that stops at Medicare for All or extends to free day care or UBI, I don't care.
iris lilies
9-8-20, 12:19pm
P.s. true fact that DH had a Swiss bank account and my name wasn’t on it.
ApatheticNoMore
9-8-20, 12:24pm
Truthfully I think it's kind of the opposite, if you can't count on family to offer any help, and no as an independent woman could NEVER imagine letting a guy support you, unless the alternative was the streets maybe, then you darn well wish there was some safety net if you needed it. Not because one doesn't often work and support oneself and even save, but one is perfectly aware of how precarious it all can be, going it alone. One reason pregnancy always terrified me in my youth and I was hyper-cautious, I suspected very well most guys I dated wouldn't stay around to raise a kid and I'd be going it alone. Sheesh it's hard enough to take care of myself, and now I'm going to have some kid to take care of too?
I’m not sure what you mean by this.
Do you mean, add “families” to my Personal list of charitable giving along with bulldogs, historic architecture, plants?
If this is what you mean then elaborate.
There is the collectivist and the individualist mindset and then also add the family mindset due to the history and emotional connections. Nothing to do with your choice of recipients of donations.
P.s. true fact that DH had a Swiss bank account and my name wasn’t on it.
haha.. maybe everyone should have a little stash of their own. DH keeps saying he has something hidden away for me, but if that turns out to be true, that stash can be used for my funeral, because I'll die of shock. That man can't save a thing.
happystuff
9-8-20, 12:39pm
I don't know how this relates to politics, but as most of you know, I do veer toward a sharing political system. Whether that stops at Medicare for All or extends to free day care or UBI, I don't care.
I am more like this as well.
As for family, I come from a large one and we are there for each other -that's all. If someone needs anything, the offers role in with no strings attached. They are all made with love, not with expectations. I will ALWAYS be grateful for my family - all of them, as I know I am blessed and lucky to have them. I hear stories of other families and it just reinforces my gratitude and love for my own.
iris lilies
9-8-20, 1:19pm
Yes, I agree that our thoughts on family giving maps closely to our preferred level of government influence! Interesting.
I think I already told the following story, but...
One of the things I saved from The Purge was something that I "stole" from my BIL's house after my MIL died. BIL was cleaning stuff out and had a huge pile of paper documents next to a shredder that he was working on. He was at work--I was afraid he was shredding important documents so I just started going through them lightly. I came across my MIL's cancelled checks, and I pulled out all of the checks related to gifts she had given DH, me and our kids. That darn stack of checks was an inch thick and encompassed thousands of dollars.
We're not losers or low-lifes always with our hands out. We have pretty much been self-sufficient or at least tried to be. Sometimes we failed at that, and she was always there to catch us. She once said "I'd be a millionaire if I didn't give all my money away. But she didn't say it spitefully--she was satisfied with her simple life and the love of her family.
I took all those checks and wrapped them in a rubber band and I keep them in one of the pigeon holes of my great-aunt's secretary to remind myself of how grateful I am for MIL's love and generosity.
I don't know how this relates to politics, but as most of you know, I do veer toward a sharing political system. Whether that stops at Medicare for All or extends to free day care or UBI, I don't care.
I think that is nice that you save those checks as your touchstone about family generosity.
In my immediate family we do not have a younger generation, so I’m not moved to give blood nieces and nephews anything because I don’t have them. They don’t exist. But certainly I can see your mother-in-law‘s choices as perfectly valid because she’s helping the kids, those who need help. The values of my family are you help young ones.
It always creeps me out to see on Mr. Money Mustache all of these ancient folks who are expecting their children to help them. But I fully realize that is a family value, and that in many non-western societies it is reasonable and expected for the oldest generation to be supported by younger ones. I can understand intellectually why those societies feel shame if they are not able to care for their elders.
But I remember that my dad contributed monthly to my grandmothers rent, so there’s that. Several of his siblings paid her rent said she didn’t have much income beyond Social Security payments.
But in my family and in DH’s family, it is shameful to not take care of yourself. We all recognize there’s a great deal of luck in having 1) good health and 2) good options, but it’s also expected that you choose wisely among your options.
I’m not saying that I am “right “here. I’m merely talking about this value and how I see it.
I think we in our modern society have a hard time accepting that values matter. There are different values out there and that is a big part of why we clash.
iris lilies
9-8-20, 1:34pm
There is the collectivist and the individualist mindset and then also add the family mindset due to the history and emotional connections. Nothing to do with your choice of recipients of donations.
OK, I see what you mean.
Well I still think that the collectivist versus the individualist giving mindsets for charitable giving works when examining family handouts, But your mileage may vary.
I could see where one doesn’t see outside family as “charitable “ giving because it’s FAMILY. But for me, anyone outside of my immediate household is a charity. I say this because my parents are both dead. If they were in the mix then I would include them as well in the definition of immediate family.
I agree, Iris, and it is so interesting to see the different family values emerging. I think my family sounds more like your family, less collectivist. I had thought the siblings would help each other and not cheat each other, but my parents' illness has put that illusion to rest. I do have one brother that seems to be like me and think brothers and sister can help each other if they are able, but it's not an obligation.
Interestingly, I think I would feel more obligation to his mother than his father, as his father earned more and was in charge of their spending, and no, his father never spent on the kids once they were grown. I guess because mothers were frequently shut out from the money, in my experience.
One of the things I don't get is that this nephew in in his mid 30's. He really isn't a kid anymore, so why is everyone treating him like a kid? I would be humilated by a gofundme campaign on my behalf. I would also be out job hunting rather than asking people for money. He is able bodied and young and male and can do a lot of different things. He was "freelancing" before, so it might be time to find a B job.
That's my take on things, anyway.
iris lilies
9-8-20, 1:56pm
I feel fortunate that the overall value about money of DH’s clan matches mine. But then you know what? I went into this marriage with my eyes wide open, I was 35 years old so not young, and I watched very carefully how he handled money, so it really isn’t a fortunate coincidence, it was an option chosen by me.
All that said, his family is still wrangling about a farm inheritance. Today actually is D-Day for the black sheep sister to do whatever action they are requiring of her, it was a letter from the family attorney to her and today she was to respond.We shall see what happens but my guess is she will not respond.I asked DH what happens next? And he says well I don’t know because he’s not in charge of that aspect.
So I continue to think they’re all acting foolishly, pissing away money to have an attorney handle this wrangle. But it’s their money and they can decide on what they want to do with it.
I think that is nice that you save those checks as your touchstone about family generosity.
In my immediate family we do not have a younger generation, so I’m not moved to give blood nieces and nephews anything because I don’t have them. They don’t exist. But certainly I can see your mother-in-law‘s choices as perfectly valid because she’s helping the kids, those who need help. The values of my family are you help young ones.
It always creeps me out to see on Mr. Money Mustache all of these ancient folks who are expecting their children to help them. But I fully realize that is a family value, and that in many non-western societies it is reasonable and expected for the oldest generation to be supported by younger ones. I can understand intellectually why those societies feel shame if they are not able to care for their elders.
But I remember that my dad contributed monthly to my grandmothers rent, so there’s that. Several of his siblings paid her rent said she didn’t have much income beyond Social Security payments.
But in my family and in DH’s family, it is shameful to not take care of yourself. We all recognize there’s a great deal of luck in having 1) good health and 2) good options, but it’s also expected that you choose wisely among your options.
I’m not saying that I am “right “here. I’m merely talking about this value and how I see it.
I think we in our modern society have a hard time accepting that values matter. There are different values out there and that is a big part of why we clash.
I agree.. yes, our values, usually instilled in us by our families, matter.
I remember a sermon by a minister we used to really enjoy when we lived in upstate New York. He was Dutch Reformed, and he had Dutch ancestry, and I imagine that a lot of the Dutch are like the Germans/Anglos in how they view their independence and self-reliance.
He was talking about when he was a teen, he went to a Hispanic friend's house, and he was shocked when one of the brothers just picked up his friend's shirt and put it on and walked out of the house. The pastor said that that would NEVER happen in his family. His family was "what's mine is mine and what's yours is yours." His friend's family was "what's mine is yours and what's yours is mine." His point was exactly what you're saying, IL--there's nothing wrong with either way.. just a different way of seeing things.
Interesting discussion.
I’m clearly in the Dutch-German camp. We give to our 3 kids/families periodically (paid for a week long cruise for all 9 of us a year ago), but not to other relatives. Except graduations, weddings, new babies, and birthday cash, which we are careful to keep fair between all situations.
But none of our relatives ask for money. It’s unheard of. If I would need to ask my kids for help we would talk about a loan. At an interest rate slightly higher than what they can earn at the bank. It would be a business deal.
We are German on both sides and I guess it shows.
It is an interesting discussion.
I agree that how one defines family and one's relationship with money plays a big part in how someone deals with the whole "family and money" stuff. The "family" in my heart and mind goes beyond biology and beyond my immediate household. The way I look at it, I would readily die for my children, so helping them financially if they need it, is definitely easy. Having said that, I will say that my family members are all pretty independent and pretty fiscally responsible. But, it's nice to know there is help should the need ever arise - both the getting and the giving.
I learned over time that when you get married, you are marrying your spouse's family too. Nobody ever explained that to me since I grew up in a disjointed family and always felt emotionally removed from my parents and sibs. It has been a struggle for me to go with the expected "rules" of DH's family all my life even though they were very generous, loving people. I just read in Suze Orman's latest book that helping family financially has been the undoing of many a close to retirement age couple/individual. So I guess one's participation should hinge on self-preservation unless you can afford to help financially and actually WANT to help.
Yes - we need to fund our retirements first although it is not natural to do so after years of caring for our kids.
I was donating to several causes monthly, and last month I cancelled the donations. I’m not back to work yet and could be facing long term disability. There’s no way to predict it. So while I have plenty of money right now, in a few years I may not. I’m not in a position financially to retire until 2026. But covid19 interfered ... So I may need to find an alternate way to fund the next 5 years. So I’m extra frugal right now until I see how this all plays out.
I read that about 1/3 of retirements are not by choice. Health problems or layoffs cause 1/3 of retirements, prior to the time that the person had planned for it.
Very sorry to read that you are still facing challenges with your health, Tammy.
Simplemind
9-8-20, 10:04pm
I have always been a saver and although I know my parents would have helped me out if I asked, I never did. When I was single and pregnant I really went to the mattresses financially. I pared everything down and then sold and pawned a bunch of my stuff to pad my savings. I was afraid if something went awry I would need it and not be in the position to scramble. I didn't end up needing it but it was the beginning of me living much more simply. Years later my dad and I were talking about it and when he heard what I had done he was very angry at me for selling my things and not asking for help. It was OK with me to sell my things and I never did need the help. Things were very important to my parents.
With DS I have always told him that I would never let him suffer but I would allow him to be uncomfortable if the situation was of his own doing/mismanagement. He asked me who got to decide the difference between suffering and being uncomfortable. I told him it was the person with the wallet.
My sister and brother always knew my parents would be their safety net. They borrowed and most often never paid back. They aren't nearly as set now that my folks are gone. I want my son to know how to figure things out and so far brainstorming options has been the kind of help we give most often. He has never asked for money and is another strong saver and pays himself first. He really wants to build an ADU in our backyard to be here to help us so we don't need to downsize.
We had a cousin that lost the family farm. It was a place that the extended family gathered at often and spent childhood summers at and was considered the heart of our family. When it happened we were all gut punched. He was not the money manager that his dad had been. Had we known one or all of us would have stepped in to do something about it. It is still a huge source of loss and hurt. It was sold to out of state owners who immediately made heartbreaking changes. Last I drove by there was high fences and razor wire. They have switched from orchards to growing marijuana. My cousin and his wife moved into town and he started truck driving. Within two years he passed from bad health which I'm sure was made much worse by the guilt of the losses.
iris lilies
9-8-20, 10:15pm
Yes - we need to fund our retirements first although it is not natural to do so after years of caring for our kids.
I was donating to several causes monthly, and last month I cancelled the donations. I’m not back to work yet and could be facing long term disability. There’s no way to predict it. So while I have plenty of money right now, in a few years I may not. I’m not in a position financially to retire until 2026. But covid19 interfered ... So I may need to find an alternate way to fund the next 5 years. So I’m extra frugal right now until I see how this all plays out.
I read that about 1/3 of retirements are not by choice. Health problems or layoffs cause 1/3 of retirements, prior to the time that the person had planned for it.
yes, so sorry to hear this is an ongoing impairment for you.
This is another reminder of how the 35 year old nephew might want to look for a job job, with benefits. Then he can start planning for retirement, and presumably get disability insurance. Because people do get sick, and sometimes we can't work anymore. That is an inevitable reality of life, unfortunately, and we have to plan for those realities.
dado potato
9-9-20, 11:39pm
I have had much good fortune during the first 70 or so years of my life. My sons and daughters and grandchildren know that I gladly give them money when they need it.
But...
My goals for accumulating capital to support my wife and myself must be attained before I give any amount of money to relatives or worthy causes.
The decision to give or not to give is fairly straight-forward. If I have cash in excess of what I need to invest to finance my own gol-dern years, I can (and will) give it away. However, if I have not achieved my goals for this year, I will not cut a check.
That's a really good point, dado, very related to Tammy's point that our circumstances change, and we always have to be looking towards taking care of ourselves and our spouses in retirement.
happystuff
9-10-20, 9:37am
Excellent point, dado and tybee.
rosarugosa
9-10-20, 5:53pm
I have had much good fortune during the first 70 or so years of my life. My sons and daughters and grandchildren know that I gladly give them money when they need it.
But...
My goals for accumulating capital to support my wife and myself must be attained before I give any amount of money to relatives or worthy causes.
The decision to give or not to give is fairly straight-forward. If I have cash in excess of what I need to invest to finance my own gol-dern years, I can (and will) give it away. However, if I have not achieved my goals for this year, I will not cut a check.
I think this is very wise.
I think this is very wise.
It is. But I'm not surprised. Over the years dado has posted many wise things here.
iris lilies
9-10-20, 9:56pm
I think the question in saving for your old age before giving to charity is nuanced because of course you do not impoverish yourself In order to give your money to others, that makes no sense. But the question is how much do you save for your old age?
I always roll my eyes at the greed of children and younger generations who go to the older generations with their handS out saying “I need my inheritance now because blah blah blah”
Well, how do they know there’s gonna BE any “inheritance?” Old age and End of life eventS can be very expensive.
We are sitting on piles of cash that to many observers think is a lot, but I’ve run the scenarios and I do not want to impoverish my spouse. The amount we have keeps him from being impoverished in reasonable scenarios. It keeps him from being impoverished in even some outlier scenarios. But it does not cover all situations even.
I think the question in saving for your old age before giving to charity is nuanced because of course you do not impoverish yourself In order to give your money to others, that makes no sense. But the question is how much do you save for your old age?
I always roll my eyes at the greed of children and younger generations who go to the older generations with their handS out saying “I need my inheritance now because blah blah blah”
Well, how do they know there’s gonna BE any “inheritance?” Old age and End of life eventS can be very expensive.
We are sitting on piles of cash that to many observers think is a lot, but I’ve run the scenarios and I do not want to impoverish my spouse. The amount we have keeps him from being impoverished in reasonable scenarios. It keeps him from being impoverished in even some outlier scenarios. But it does not cover all situations even.
I always have to take into consideration the ignorance of youth. I think the young assume their parents/older adults have a ton of money, as long as by all appearances they have all the right "stuff" and they are not living paycheck to paycheck and they have a decent job. They also underestimate the cost of living. I know I did.
My kids are getting a living inheritance in the way of weddings (almost have that inheritance checked off!), college educations (check), and after we die, a few bucks for the grandkids (whatever small amount I'm able to save), equity in the house, and the family heirlooms that survived The Purge.
My mother's inheritance to me was $60, and I don't think my kids will be able to count on much more and I don't feel guilty about that at all.
iris lilies
9-11-20, 9:12am
I always have to take into consideration the ignorance of youth. I think the young assume their parents/older adults have a ton of money, as long as by all appearances they have all the right "stuff" and they are not living paycheck to paycheck and they have a decent job. They also underestimate the cost of living. I know I did.
My kids are getting a living inheritance in the way of weddings (almost have that inheritance checked off!), college educations (check), and after we die, a few bucks for the grandkids (whatever small amount I'm able to save), equity in the house, and the family heirlooms that survived The Purge.
My mother's inheritance to me was $60, and I don't think my kids will be able to count on much more and I don't feel guilty about that at all.
College educations are a huge contribution to a kids life, huge!
I agree with Catherine's post except that I did give each a large lumpsum when DH passed and I sold our farm. They were told that the rest is mine to use and were at peace about that. I also have a policy that whatever I give to one is immediately given to the other in equivalent sum. I want their confidence that neither was favoured or indulged above the other. That so often is a cause for anguish.
One other commitment I have made is that as long as it is physically possible, my family will be able to find shelter in a severe emergency with me. My present house was bought with that commitment in mind. It is small but has 4 BR and 3 bathrooms.
We are all unique in our approach to family and money issues.
Teacher Terry
9-11-20, 12:31pm
Our house is always open to the kids. They have moved in when needed and we have helped with money as needed. My youngest son has been living with us since April. I think weddings are generally a big waste of money if big but we help with a modest amount of 2k.
I actually got a letter from my brother's wife a few weeks ago asking for $$. She had gotten address from my parents. Mind you, I've not seen my brother since the late 90s or so. I've never met his wife. I don't like my brother. I never did.
I was angry enough that I actually wrote her back asking her why she thought she was entitled to my money? I told her I never, ever wanted to hear from her again.
Oh, yuck, Tradd, that's awful. Glad you wrote her back.
iris lilies
9-12-20, 10:04pm
I actually got a letter from my brother's wife a few weeks ago asking for $$. She had gotten address from my parents. Mind you, I've not seen my brother since the late 90s or so. I've never met his wife. I don't like my brother. I never did.
I was angry enough that I actually wrote her back asking her why she thought she was entitled to my money? I told her I never, ever wanted to hear from her again.
That is pretty ballsy. Why does she need money? Is there an illness?
She didn’t really say. Pretty much just they were having a hard time due to covid.
Teacher Terry
9-12-20, 11:30pm
Tradd, I find that bizarre.
I learned over time that when you get married, you are marrying your spouse's family too. Nobody ever explained that to me since I grew up in a disjointed family and always felt emotionally removed from my parents and sibs. It has been a struggle for me to go with the expected "rules" of DH's family all my life even though they were very generous, loving people. I just read in Suze Orman's latest book that helping family financially has been the undoing of many a close to retirement age couple/individual. So I guess one's participation should hinge on self-preservation unless you can afford to help financially and actually WANT to help.
I've watched my in-laws do this. SIL and her 3 kids got damn near everything they ever saved. At 81, FIL still works full-time and at 80 MIL works intermittently. Hubster was called by FIL and told about the brand new 30 year mortgage on the home they'd lived in for 40 years. Now, you don't do that if you don't need cash. Hell, they are still on that builder grade carpet from 1979 and it feels like walking on plywood and looks worse.
We've never been asked for money by any family on either side. That said, we do pay attention to what is being said. We've bought a plane ticket here n' there. We've given really nice gifts here n' there. Anything that goes out is a gift-we would never expect to be paid back.
Bottom line: Don't make distributions you can't afford and don't sacrifice your future for others. This Dutch immigrant was raised to take care of herself and share what she can!
I actually got a letter from my brother's wife a few weeks ago asking for $$. She had gotten address from my parents. Mind you, I've not seen my brother since the late 90s or so. I've never met his wife. I don't like my brother. I never did.
I was angry enough that I actually wrote her back asking her why she thought she was entitled to my money? I told her I never, ever wanted to hear from her again.
>:(:0! (words escape me!)
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