View Full Version : Ridiculous real estate
This is a small (under 1000 sq foot) house in a planned community in Bridgton Maine that markets to over 55 downsizers and used to push bill themselves as an eco village. When I first saw these houses, five years ago, they were around 150k tops. Now they are over 300k. The worst thing is that you can't really walk anywhere from them, and you are car dependent there.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2-Journeys-Path-Bridgton-ME-04009/2077918396_zpid/
What do you all think of this? I think it's ridiculous, thus the thread title. What am I missing here?
I checked and it is over 55. A clubhouse and a fitness center. No pool!
Everything real estate has gone up it seems. Even our own house here has gone up $100K in four years. It is not a sustainable situation. I am not one who would do well in a 55 plus setting with HOAs etc even with all the "amenities." And I think most of those places have very strict HOAs and the fees to go with them.
My gosh, I forgot about HOA. It is 185 dollars a month! For virtually nothing. Ouch.
That would be a real bargain in this area, or in the Portland suburbs, where 300K would buy a nice older condo.
Yeah, that's why we ruled out Portland, where my son lives, even though it's super nice and I love the climate and I love my son. No way can we ever afford it.
I just spoke to one of my neighbors (a summer resident) and she said she just sold her year-round house in Middlebury, VT. They bought it for $160 9 years ago. The put it on the market for $320 and they got 8 offers in one day.
If my son doesn't wind up buying my house and I miss this housing bubble I am going to be totally bummed. Meanwhile, he might be getting to the point where he can't afford to buy it from me!!
House prices have gone up here, then slipped some, then gone up again; but their overall trajectory is up. My house, on paper, is worth more than seven times what I paid for it.
We in fly-over country aren't necessarily blessed/cursed by outrageous home prices. We built our house 25 years ago for $185,000. It's in excellent condition and in a desirable neighborhood but hasn't seen the huge increases in value many of you have, at least according to Zillow. They say mine is now worth about $280,000.
If my focus was making money I'd have been better off investing that initial $185K.
A friend put her tiny house in Lafayette, IN on the market and the same day she had it listed there were 5 viewings and a sale, She lost out on over 5 houses due to bidding and immediate cash offers in Indy before finding her house.
It is a totally crazy market, for sure. We just bid on one two weeks ago and lost out, are negotiating on another one now, fingers crossed.
$475k, 320 sq. ft., 1 BR, 3/4 bath. On the edge of my small village.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/22-Wild-Currant-Ct-Eastsound-WA-98245/2077891213_zpid/
Wow. That view is a million dollar view, I have to say. I could also make do in that size if it were just I. But for two, no.
ApatheticNoMore
9-17-20, 8:04pm
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2...77918396_zpid/
I think it's super cheap. If it were here I'd buy it like yesterday (because even my poor self could do that), nothing that cheap here though, so my poor self rents.
I did check out one tiny house the size of a 1 bedroom here going for 400k built in 1918 and on a historic registry so don't even think about making changes. But it went fast and was sold like that anyway. Mostly nothing is that cheap and I don't make an adequate income to pay much more than that.
I like several of the houses on that page, and the prices seem normal to me.
Although it feels like double the price the reality is that interest rates have dropped significantly in 10 years. In January 2010 they were 5.03 according to Freddie Mac's web site. For a $120k (80% of $150k purchase price) mortgage on the OP's listing that would translate to $644/month. As of yesterday we got 2.226%. For a $240k mortgage that translates to $914 per month. Less than 50% more than the 10 year ago monthly cost. Since most people buy a house based on what they can afford to spend each month a $170k mortgage, or $204k purchase price, would result in identical monthly mortgage, and that's not even counting for inflation. Add another 30% on to that price to account for 10 years of inflation and you're at $265k. Not that far off from the $300k price tag.
As an aside, everyone knows that real estate is very much a localized price situation. Looking on realtor.com just now there are precisely 5 places in san francisco on the market for $300k or less. All of them "below market rate" houses. You can't earn more than a certain amount and basically purchasing one is a lottery. Chances are slim of getting one.
Reading Alan's post of the moderate increase his house has seen in 25 years I'm reminded of a story I read shortly after the 2008 housing bubble burst. A family had sold their home in Ohio in 2002 or 2003, moved to Philadelphia because of the husband's job. They bought a crappy, but more expensive, house there, lived in it for 4-5 years, then in 2006 or 2007 he had a new job opportunity back in Ohio. So they sold the Philly house for more than double what they paid and went back to Ohio where prices had only increased modestly. They were able to buy a gigantic, all the bells and whistles type house there with the profits from their house in Philly.
My sister had a similar experience. About 7 years ago she took a tech job in Seattle. They kept their San Diego house and rented it out since they didn't plan to stay in Seattle forever and they didn't want to lose their Prop 13 property tax valuation. Three years later after her stock at the Seattle employer had vested she quit and they sold the Seattle house and moved back to San Diego. They had paid just over $700k. They sold for over $1M.
When we first moved to San Francisco in 2009 I knew that the market was at a bottom but we didn't have the cash to buy a place. I've got multiple friends who at that time were crying about having bought at the peak and being deeply underwater on their mortgages. Today all those same friends are doing just fine. Of course if we have another crash who knows. But right now that doesn't appear to be on the horizon.
iris lilies
9-17-20, 10:04pm
This is a small (under 1000 sq foot) house in a planned community in Bridgton Maine that markets to over 55 downsizers and used to push bill themselves as an eco village. When I first saw these houses, five years ago, they were around 150k tops. Now they are over 300k. The worst thing is that you can't really walk anywhere from them, and you are car dependent there.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2-Journeys-Path-Bridgton-ME-04009/2077918396_zpid/
What do you all think of this? I think it's ridiculous, thus the thread title. What am I missing here?
I checked and it is over 55. A clubhouse and a fitness center. No pool!
I guess that is expensive. I don’t know because I know that East Coast real estate is expensive. The house itself is mostly cute although the proportions of the porch columns look wrong to me, they look chintzy. I like that the garage isn’t huge, it’s a one car garage set back from the house.The interior is too brighty whitey for me, I like things a little more worn.
Those planned communities way out in the boondocks we are supposed to be able to walk within but still have to take our car to go any place real fascinate and annoy me. They are like the Truman Show, they just aren’t real.
rosarugosa
9-18-20, 6:03am
Tybee: from my Boston-area perspective, that seems like a good price to me.
Those planned communities way out in the boondocks we are supposed to be able to walk within but still have to take our car to go any place real fascinate and annoy me. They are like the Truman Show, they just aren’t real.
Yes, I think that is part of my problem with this. For that kind of money, I want to be able to walk everywhere and have sidewalks and cafes! (That kind of money in a small town in Maine, that is.)
Yes, I think that is part of my problem with this. For that kind of money, I want to be able to walk everywhere and have sidewalks and cafes! (That kind of money in a small town in Maine, that is.)
I suppose alternately there might be opportunities for nature trails, country bike rides, and quiet. Being close to open spaces and parks rates highly in my book. In some ways it would be ideal for someone like me, given the right location. It does looks like lower cost construction as an impression from the photos, but that could be off. I'd probably want a concrete driveway.
Local news says real estate is hot here and when I've window shopped the prices amaze me. I'd have guessed the opposite considering the state of the economy. I guess low interest rates are part of it, but matter less for those of us who avoid debt.
I just would feel stranded in a small gated community where you could not walk anywhere, and the amenities were so limited. There are no nature trails going off of this community, which would help a lot. You would be completely car dependent.
I am completely car dependent now, but I live on 5 acres, which I really like. So I totally get wanting to live in nature--that's what we have always chosen. But this is a planned over 55 community, and it seems to have the worst of both worlds.
happystuff
9-18-20, 7:56am
$475k, 320 sq. ft., 1 BR, 3/4 bath. On the edge of my small village.
https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/22-Wild-Currant-Ct-Eastsound-WA-98245/2077891213_zpid/
OMG! That is almost half a million dollars for 320 square feet!! :0!
iris lilies
9-18-20, 10:27am
OMG! That is almost half a million dollars for 320 square feet!! :0!
And all of those damn trees to contend with as well.
I’d like the tiny space but yeah, price and surroundings not my cup of tea.
Teacher Terry
9-18-20, 11:02am
The cabin reminds me of the location my parent’s resort was at in northern Wisconsin. Really beautiful! All of our 55 communities are in the suburbs and are car dependent. One is so huge that it can take 30 minutes just to get out.
catherine
9-18-20, 11:47am
And all of those damn trees to contend with as well.
If you were in VT you'd have to live with them or fight with the authorities. There are laws against cutting them down just for the view in some municipalities. I think that house is awesome, but I could/would never pay a half a million for it.
I'm feeling pretty good that I paid $164 for a house on a lake with this view 30 minutes from Burlington.
34413442
SteveinMN
9-18-20, 11:47am
RE up in the Twin Cities is expensive relative to much of the Midwest. It's hard to find something under $200,000 that either doesn't have serious flaws or needs a lot of work or is located far enough away to require a car to get pretty much anywhere. When I bought this house, this neighborhood looked like it was ready to be the next "hot" neighborhood. That took about ten years longer to happen than I thought it would (thanks, Great Recession), but it did happen and now our house is valued at half-again what I paid for it and the value of my mom's place (bought in foreclosure before the recession) has doubled.
I, too, wonder how long this can be sustained. I guess time will tell. The economy here is still healthy with a lot of employers that can weather some bad years though maybe not too many of them. And so long as gasoline remains historically cheap people will be willing to commute -- if, in fact, there's that much commuting to be done in the foreseeable future.
Our area has risen 20% in the last 12 months. Our 1650sf home is up 439% in 29 years. We're not lower middle class 'hood. Our home is barely the median purchase price.
Even today, average time on the market is a few days unless the home is greater than 20 years old. Those are taking about 45 days.
That place in Maine? Fantastic bargain if it were here.!
Our area has risen 20% in the last 12 months. Our 1650sf home is up 439% in 29 years. We're not lower middle class 'hood. Our home is barely the median purchase price.
Even today, average time on the market is a few days unless the home is greater than 20 years old. Those are taking about 45 days.
That place in Maine? Fantastic bargain if it were here.!
Isn't that something. I wonder how sustainable that kind of rise is, and how much it has to do with the low interest rates.
The place in Maine is overpriced when measured against other houses in Maine. But Bridgton is a very hot area.
I like this better in Bridgton:
https://www.coldwellbankerhomes.com/me/bridgton/110-knights-hill-rd/pid_38068431/
It is 265k and the HOA is 95 a month. You have a beach and a pool, tennis, and a lake and a marina.
iris lilies
9-18-20, 4:36pm
I like this better in Bridgton:
https://www.coldwellbankerhomes.com/me/bridgton/110-knights-hill-rd/pid_38068431/
It is 265k and the HOA is 95 a month. You have a beach and a pool, tennis, and a lake and a marina.
I know nothing about the Bridgeton area, but that property is wonderful. It looks spic and span. And all of amenities for $95 a month seems pretty sweet.
I’m starting to think that monthly payment should be the deciding factor even for people who think like we do here on the simple living forum.
Purchase price is becoming highly dependent on timing, even from one week to the next, and interest rates are so variable as well. The economy doesn’t seem like it should support these real estate prices, but apparently it does. If the interest rate is not variable, and assuming a loan rather than a cash purchase, maybe the monthly payment is the most important factor. It’s like renting, but without the unknown risk of future rent increases.
I never thought I would say that.
iris lilies
9-18-20, 4:50pm
If you were in VT you'd have to live with them or fight with the authorities. There are laws against cutting them down just for the view in some municipalities. I think that house is awesome, but I could/would never pay a half a million for it.
I'm feeling pretty good that I paid $164 for a house on a lake with this view 30 minutes from Burlington.
34413442
very pretty and I don't even see a lot of trees on thst flat land. Could grow some pretty nice iris and lilies there I reckon.
iris lilies
9-18-20, 4:50pm
I like this better in Bridgton:
https://www.coldwellbankerhomes.com/me/bridgton/110-knights-hill-rd/pid_38068431/
It is 265k and the HOA is 95 a month. You have a beach and a pool, tennis, and a lake and a marina.
This place is winterized, right? I see heating apparatus. Would people live here year-round?
Yes, it is a year round house, not seasonal.
https://www.knightshill.net/about-knights-hill
rosarugosa
9-18-20, 5:02pm
I know that Stephen King has a home in Bridgton, and I know 3 people from MA who have summer/lake homes in that area. I think it's a pretty nice area.
ApatheticNoMore
9-18-20, 5:44pm
I’m starting to think that monthly payment should be the deciding factor even for people who think like we do here on the simple living forum.
Purchase price is becoming highly dependent on timing, even from one week to the next, and interest rates are so variable as well. The economy doesn’t seem like it should support these real estate prices, but apparently it does. If the interest rate is not variable, and assuming a loan rather than a cash purchase, maybe the monthly payment is the most important factor. It’s like renting, but without the unknown risk of future rent increases.
I never thought I would say that.
probably right, maybe how one should see buying a car as well. I buy used cars for cash so I'm all about the car price. But my bf just bought a car with zero % down, 0 % interest, and since it's hydrogen, free fuel for 3 years which makes the car essentially free for 3 years as the monthly payment is what one pays in gas for a gas car. I've never been able to grasp debt really, I don't do it. But who has the nicer car? Not me. And who has 3 free years of a car? Not me, taking money out of savings to throw at a car. Truly none of us buy cars over about 15k total price though regardless.
The problem with housing though is it likely costs so much more than rent, at least here, that one really is paying a VERY HIGH cost to lock in those lack of rent increases, and then it becomes a game of trying to figure out possible future rent increases or just buying if one can afford it regardless I guess.
I’m starting to think that monthly payment should be the deciding factor even for people who think like we do here on the simple living forum.
Purchase price is becoming highly dependent on timing, even from one week to the next, and interest rates are so variable as well. The economy doesn’t seem like it should support these real estate prices, but apparently it does. If the interest rate is not variable, and assuming a loan rather than a cash purchase, maybe the monthly payment is the most important factor. It’s like renting, but without the unknown risk of future rent increases.
I never thought I would say that.
That's the way we looked at it when we decided it was time to buy. Our monthly cost is going down. Since we will always have to spend money to live somewhere, whether it's rent or mortgage payments and property tax. The down payment on the purchase was just sitting in a money market account, so that's the only thing we're risking, but hopefully when we're ready to sell we'll get enough money from the sale to have made the house a prudent place to have invested that $146k.
iris lilies
9-19-20, 12:06pm
I’m sure I will go to my grave refusing to look at house purchases as a monthly cost.
I do not say that I am “right “I am merely reflecting living in flyover country where we can buy places for cash.
Everyone I know who looks at their flyover country dwelling in terms of monthly payment is, in my opinion, house poor. They would not agree though, they just consider that to be “ what everyone does.”
Teacher Terry
9-19-20, 12:09pm
Houses are cheap in the Midwest but property taxes are often high. I looked at Kenosha and I can get a nice house for 150k but taxes are expensive.
“I’m sure I will go to my grave refusing to look at house purchases as a monthly cost.”
I could have written those words a year ago. Three things have changed in my world:
1. We moved to Phoenix which is known for affordable housing (as least more affordable than California etc) and yet my rent was raised by 200 a month when renewing leases. It’s so unpredictable. We bought our (cheaper, older, smaller) house 3 years ago and have been paying a few thousand a month extra towards the principle. This works for us but if we had kids at home we would be paying triple to get them in a good school. It’s a tough city for families.
2. I got covid and can’t work yet. All of the sudden my retirement picture/master plan is up for grabs. We stopped paying extra to principle. I realized that we can afford our house payment for the next few decades if we are careful to save all of our extra cash along the way, in order to afford the house payment for the next 5 - 8 years until all retirement vehicles are paying us. If we keep paying extra (goal was to pay it off by 2026) the bank won’t let us stop paying monthly ... we will then force ourselves to sell the house to get at our money, by paying off debt ahead of time. It’s better to keep our savings liquid so we can make the monthly house payments. It’s half the price of rent. And low interest.
And 3. 2020 has been such a cl*#~er f**k that nothing can be counted on anymore. I want my assets to be liquid. A house loan is no problem - I need options and liquidity.
“I’m sure I will go to my grave refusing to look at house purchases as a monthly cost.”
I could have written those words a year ago. Three things have changed in my world:
1. We moved to Phoenix which is known for affordable housing (as least more affordable than California etc) and yet my rent was raised by 200 a month when renewing leases. It’s so unpredictable. We bought our (cheaper, older, smaller) house 3 years ago and have been paying a few thousand a month extra towards the principle. This works for us but if we had kids at home we would be paying triple to get them in a good school. It’s a tough city for families.
2. I got covid and can’t work yet. All of the sudden my retirement picture/master plan is up for grabs. We stopped paying extra to principle. I realized that we can afford our house payment for the next few decades if we are careful to save all of our extra cash along the way, in order to afford the house payment for the next 5 - 8 years until all retirement vehicles are paying us. If we keep paying extra (goal was to pay it off by 2026) the bank won’t let us stop paying monthly ... we will then force ourselves to sell the house to get at our money, by paying off debt ahead of time. It’s better to keep our savings liquid so we can make the monthly house payments. It’s half the price of rent. And low interest.
And 3. 2020 has been such a cl*#~er f**k that nothing can be counted on anymore. I want my assets to be liquid. A house loan is no problem - I need options and liquidity.
Tammy - I am so sorry to hear that you've been sick. When I see the anti-mask idiots in videos shouting at Targets and such I wonder how some people can have so little respect and consideration for others. I hope you recover and I hope are feeling better. It's been a few weeks, hasn't it? A month?
Have you considered doing a refi cash-out? The income requirements are not as high for refi because you already hold the collateral and have a payment history. Costco.com has a program with lenders that lets you look at available rates very quickly and there is no commitment required when you talk to the approved lenders. Just a thought to alleviate some of the financial worries. The interest rates are super low right now.
I’ve been off work since July 10, but I had a lot of accrued sick and vacation time so I’m getting full paychecks and have our healthcare benefits also. I am so lucky ... this will last me about 2-3 more months.
It’s hard to judge how I’m doing from my own perspective because I’ve always been able to push through and work a lot, including a history of a lot of overtime, and a second job, and consulting, even while getting my MBA, over the past few decades. So as soon as I have a good day (showered dressed and no obvious symptoms while sitting on the couch) I think I’m completely better.
So my husband rates me on a ten point scale each day. He’s objective. I was a 1 all of July, and this last week I’ve gotten 6’s. (At 10 I’m well enough to work. At 0 he is calling the ambulance.)
I have never learned so much about accepting those things I can not change. And also that our value is not in what we produce. And also that it’s ok to keep some money in the bank instead of paying the mortgage really fast. 😄
Good for you for getting to 6 so quickly!! When I had a life-threatening, life changing illness, it took 6 months to be able to walk again and drive. I could not work full time for years. I went into online teaching about 6 months after the illness, but my brain was not there yet, for sure, and I had amnesia and memory issues for a long time.
Be good to yourself and stop paying the mortgage early. Try to take the pressure off. Know that you will probably be able to work again in some form or other, but it may not be on a fast track.
I love your new way of looking at the mortgage and monthly payments. Our circumstances change, our health changes, our lives change. You are being very wise.
I have never learned so much about accepting those things I can not change. And also that our value is not in what we produce. And also that it’s ok to keep some money in the bank instead of paying the mortgage really fast. ��
Love this posting, Tammy....so glad to hear you're improving.
iris lilies
9-19-20, 6:06pm
Tammy, Imagree that in yoir situation, a lot of liquidity vs paying down the mortgage is good.
For me, .i want the sun, moon, and the stars. i want a paid off house AND liquid assets. Oh yeah, and several streams of income. All of them reliable!
These are the things I want. At the moment, it looks like I have them, but 2020 has shown us that It all can change pretty fast.
Where I live, one can easily look up the actual price a house sold for and what amount if any the owners financed. As I do my research on selling this house, I notice that most of the homes recently sold in my area have very large mortgages - 80% and up at very low interest rates. I don't know if that's a tactical decision regarding low interest rates vs savings rates or that's the only way can get into a home with these escalating prices. Also a ton of refinances to pay for upscale remodeling. Haven't we been here before?
I own my home, and the homes my mother and sister live in, free-and-clear.
I am tempted however to take out a mortgage given today's low interest rates, to get a little more liquid and less cash-poor/land-rich.
I've been successful to-date with a simple home equity line of credit for managing cash-flow/liquidity issues, but it is at nearly 5%.
I think about leveraging my home equity for a down payment on something smaller, but then I'd be goosed into action to get it together to move--which results in my taking a stress-induced nap.
I think about leveraging my home equity for a down payment on something smaller, but then I'd be goosed into action to get it together to move--which results in my taking a stress-induced nap.
Exactly!
I think about leveraging my home equity for a down payment on something smaller, but then I'd be goosed into action to get it together to move--which results in my taking a stress-induced nap.
As someone who just moved yesterday I have just one thing to say. "DON'T DO IT" I love our new place and am glad we're here but "DON'T DO IT".
As someone who just moved yesterday I have just one thing to say. "DON'T DO IT" I love our new place and am glad we're here but "DON'T DO IT".
I imagine moving is like childbirth--eventually you forget the pain and do it again.
But I'm on my own at this point and physically kaput, so it seems un-doable.
iris lilies
9-22-20, 9:52am
As someone who just moved yesterday I have just one thing to say. "DON'T DO IT" I love our new place and am glad we're here but "DON'T DO IT".
Or conversely, move often so then each time it becomes less painful because you have less crap.
Or conversely, move often so then each time it becomes less painful because you have less crap.
That's the "Three moves are as good as a fire" principle.
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