Political and/or Religious Differences... or Ignorance and Disinformation?

[Geila]

Recently a couple of family members I'm very close to have been urging me to take action to oppose some things that just make no sense to me. I've debated about voicing my concerns, but I thought I'd invite a discussion here to help me see different points of view.

[bae]

I suspect if you dig deeply, you'll see Q Anon is lurking in the murk behind the outrage over these.

[iris lilies]

At your mention of the film “Cuties “I tuned into it. I’m about 10 minutes into it and I do like it so I’ll watch it to the end.


Like all films about precocious preteens, it shows a lot of leg and hair tossing. There’s nothing new in that. The different thing is the cultural setting as you point out.


It’s always odd what the outrage crowd hangs onto.


Remember Jeanne Cumming’s book “ American dirt” last winter? That was another outrage, I guess from the other political side of the spectrum, but I’m not sure. I just shake my head because I can’t figure out what causes this stuff.

[ApatheticNoMore]

I suspect if you dig deeply, you'll see Q Anon is lurking in the murk behind the outrage over these.

yep because the most important issue we need to be concerned about is pedophilia and all those secret pedophile rings that Trump is opposing.

It's probably Q which is not even a values difference in any real sense. It's not even a political difference in any traditional sense. It's about an alternate reality of people believing ridiculous conspiracy theories and trying to get Trump, who obviously hasn't been a good president in many real world ways, reelected on the basis of complete fiction made out of whole cloth, abandoning the realm of shared reality entirely in their quest for this.

The pandemic hasn't been good for many people's mental health, but some people like the Q believers, have used quarantine as an opportunity to completely lose their minds entirely.

[rosarugosa]

I watched the movie tonight and I thought it was excellent. I guess if 11 year old girls float your boat then this movie would probably excite you, but I don't think that was the intent.
Geila, I thought the same as you did.

[iris lilies]

I have a few more thoughts about this film “cuties “after I finished it last night. I enjoyed it. I like films for adult audiences about children and their life experiences.

My primary thought about this film is that the haters are the ones promoting it beyond all reason through their controversy. Under normal circumstances an indie French film, dubbed in English, would fade into an obscure corner of filmdom. So sure, maybe they can slap Netflix around for promoting it on their website, I know there were hundreds of indie films on Netflix and similar services that don’t get the buzz this one is getting.

In order to get some perspective I perused Reddit, ha ha, so many Reddit threads about this film. I picked one at random. On that thread were many comments that revealed people don’t seem to know this style of dancing has been out there in the world of children for a while now. If they think 11-year-olds are bad, what about these 8-year-olds:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=e0DtUcPTQEc
this dance performance, other performances by the same troop, and performances by this Los Angeles dance studio gets millions of hits on Youtube. I would wager that they will be watched more than this French film.

I certainly think it’s unfortunate that Beyoncé and the whole Hollywood Gestalt is so trashy. Kids will emulate what is the most popular thing of the moment, and so of course they’re going to play mini Beyoncés. Hollywood has always been producers of trash, nothing Here is new. They set the standard for it. One of the more interesting things to me about this film is that this American aesthetic is so strong that it leaks into immigrant child culture in France.

[razz]

Gella, may I suggest that those who feel one way or the other about such movies, deal with their response.
Personally, if I can make a difference and am prepared to deal with all the flack, I might make an observation asking why such movies are made. So much comment on social media is not to share/inform with others but to hear themselves speak without interruption so making any comment will accomplish very little. YMMV.

[Tybee]

Geila, is this one family member or a couple of family members? Are they asking you to advocate for something you disagree with (I don't understand what you are saying in this latest post, but I am not a resident in your state and do not follow your legislation.)

Would you be comfortable telling her or them that you are uncomfortable with them asking for you to advocate on either of these issues? That you already advocate for issues you care about?

I am not quite understanding what you are asking with respect to this or these family members.

[Jane v2.0]

QAnon is inextricably wound up with Russian troll farms and disinformation mills; they're also on domestic terror watch lists, if I'm not mistaken. The pedophilia panic du jour is one of their concoctions. https://www.nbcnews.com/tech/social-media/russian-troll-accounts-purged-twitter-pushed-qanon-other-conspiracy-theories-n966091

I find the whole pageant/dressing children up like hookers/twerking toddlers thing repellent, so I won't be watching Cuties, but nothing I've heard about it makes it sound like something that needs to be censored.

Fortunately--as I've mentioned before--I have a small social circle of people who don't fall for QAnon fables or peddle racist nonsense, so I'm not called on to protest much.

[iris lilies]

Geila, is this one family member or a couple of family members? Are they asking you to advocate for something you disagree with (I don't understand what you are saying in this latest post, but I am not a resident in your state and do not follow your legislation.)

Would you be comfortable telling her or them that you are uncomfortable with them asking for you to advocate on either of these issues? That you already advocate for issues you care about?

I am not quite understanding what you are asking with respect to this or these family members.

I think there are a couple ways to answer this, but granted it’s not easy. It ain’t easy! You ( the generic you) can answer in the general or the specific.

As you point out, an answer in the general along the lines of “I often do take action on causes I care about” and leave it at that.

Or, the OP Could say about the California legislation her very specific concern which is “I worry about 18-year-olds who end up on a lifetime sexual predator list because they made out in a car with their slightly younger girlfriend. That seems like an excessive penalty to me. So no, I will not oppose this particular set of legislative changes.“

I fully expect to get lobbied heavily to vote for Trump by a couple of people in early November. I will nod and acknowledge our conversation In a noncommittal way and go off to the voting booth to do what I want to do.

I don’t subscribe to the new paradigm that silence is complicity. If I’m silent on something it’s because I want to be. So if someone forces me to talk with them I will give a non-committal answer generally, although if the topic is
something I actually know about and have thought about, I will probably respond with my point of view very briefly.

[Geila]

IL - you and my dh are of the same mind. And most of the time I've learned to just ignore things that I don't agree with in these particular relationships. Although my personality is such that doing so is difficult. And the more I ignore, the more I distance myself.

[Tybee]

And the more I ignore, the more I distance myself.

I do this too! In fact, when my brothers were getting to me last year because I felt they were treating me poorly, I stopped delivering myself up as a target--only to have them call and say, "What's the matter, why aren't you calling us?"

I so get this. For me, I'm uncomfortable because of what they've been saying, so I withdraw.

[iris lilies]

This isn't really like that. I really see it more as a cultural movie, although it could be argued that child pageants are a cultural aspect as well. This reminded me of a few different films like Born Into Brothels, Little Miss Sunshine, Whale Rider, 13 in that it illuminated a cultural aspect that I wasn't aware of before. The scantily-clad young girls is nothing new; how many times do we see it with cheerleaders? And I agree with IL that stars just perpetuate the whole thing. But it's part of our culture, whether we like it or not. Frankly, I don't know if a pedophile would have the patience to sit through the whole movie in order to get his kicks. I'm sure there's much more readily available content elsewhere. People's instagram photos for example.

One of the most interesting things to me was the glimpse into Senagal culture and women's roles in it. I don't want to spoil the plot, but that in itself was worth the movie for me. And the young girls and their "dancing" would be really interesting to examine, although that part was not surprising for me. I wish I was taking a class where I could discuss this movie with interested peeps.

oh the Humbert Humberts of the world, obsessed with 11 year old Lolitas, will definitely sit thru this entire film although I don’t know that there’s any little girl In the film other than the lead who is strong Pedo material. But the lead actress is gorgeous. She was 13 or 14 when the film was shot.

[iris lilies]

This isn't really like that. I really see it more as a cultural movie, although it could be argued that child pageants are a cultural aspect as well. This reminded me of a few different films like Born Into Brothels, Little Miss Sunshine, Whale Rider, 13 in that it illuminated a cultural aspect that I wasn't aware of before. The scantily-clad young girls is nothing new; how many times do we see it with cheerleaders? And I agree with IL that stars just perpetuate the whole thing. But it's part of our culture, whether we like it or not. Frankly, I don't know if a pedophile would have the patience to sit through the whole movie in order to get his kicks. I'm sure there's much more readily available content elsewhere. People's instagram photos for example.

One of the most interesting things to me was the glimpse into Senagal culture and women's roles in it. I don't want to spoil the plot, but that in itself was worth the movie for me. And the young girls and their "dancing" would be really interesting to examine, although that part was not surprising for me. I wish I was taking a class where I could discuss this movie with interested peeps.

The cleansing ritual where they threw water on her was certainly interesting.

What was the scene where the blood was dripping from her tribal dress? I didn’t get what that was supposed to be. It was her fantasy, right?



I very much miss IMBD forums. You could go to the forum for this film and discuss this issue. Instead, on Reddit, there are a dozen threads most of them centering on pedophilia and it has nothing to do with the filmmaker’s intent. I will have to scroll through several Reddit threads to find discussion on the interesting cultural practices.


What was the scene about the blood dripping from her travel costume? I didn’t get that.

[rosarugosa]

The film prompted me to do some online reading about traditional Muslim marital practices, so I definitely learned something.

[jp1]

Geila, I find it interesting that you mention that when you disagree with someone that you can tend to pull away from them because of that disagreement. Yet, one of the reasons you hesitate to express a differing opinion is concern that it will harm the relationship. And then in this particular instance you expressed yourself and the relationship seems to still be fine. I’m not a psychologist so I certainly don’t have all the answers, but it sounds like speaking up for yourself might actually be a good thing for your relationships with people who have different opinions.

[Jane v2.0]

It's probably a good thing that I live in an echo chamber, as I can be outspoken on issues I feel strongly about. If you haven't noticed...:devil:

[iris lilies]

It's probably a good thing that I live in an echo chamber, as I can be outspoken on issues I feel strongly about. If you haven't noticed...:devil:

i will keep you in check. Thank me now, or later. :)

[Jane v2.0]

i will keep you in check. Thank me now, or later. :)
I was going to ask you to hold my beer...

[jp1]

I’d put it in the consumerism and media section with ‘spoiler alert’ in the title and then in the first post state that people shouldn’t read further if they don’t want to learn the ending.

[Alan]

I haven't seen the show in question but it's my impression it's been singled out as an example of media and culture promoting the sexualization of children. Is there some part of whatever prompted this thread that I'm missing?