View Full Version : Yet another Trump sign went up today
I live on a street of mostly senior residents and one by one they are putting up their Trump Pence signs. There are even guys in pickups driving around with large Trump flags waving in back. I don't do signs or make my political beliefs known to neighbors but I have to wonder what the great appeal is. His lifetime actions have shown him to be morally wretched and I don't see where his four years in office have moved us in a positive direction. Is it the oft repeated radical left/socialism line that pulls them in? It just baffles me so perhaps someone with a more conservative point of view can splain it to me???
One point to consider that he has done things he said he would do. NAFTA replacement deal? Done. Crack down on trade issues with China? Done. Two just things. He focuses a lot on the economy, plus law and order.
The Dems have gone all "woke" and "white people/cops bad" while cities have been burned and looted. Crime up in some areas. I'll be frank, some of the Dems just seem to be stoking the flames.
I think he appeals to
a) people who are emotionally tied to the status quo
b) people who really believe he's a disrupter who can "drain the swamp"
c) entertainment value: he's like the bully or the b*tch with the one-liners you wish you had the nerve to say
I just spoke with my brother and we always tread lightly into politics. He HATES what he's seeing with BLM and protests and vandalism, and the out-of-control nature of the world right now makes him seek comfort in someone who promises they will steady the boat. The lies don't matter. The cruelty doesn't matter. The divisiveness doesn't matter. MAGA is still the watchword, and "greatness" means "keep my world exactly the same" even if it means other things, like rights of others or the environment or even our democracy, will regress.
ETA: I agree with Tradd that Dems sometimes don't get it.
Some supporters I know like his stand on guns or abortion.
I don't do signs or make my political beliefs known to neighbors but I have to wonder what the great appeal is. I don't do signs in my yard either, I did during the Bush years and suffered through our suburban liberals shooting paint balls at the signs and the house. No more of that for me.
Personally I don't see much Trump appeal, although I do see a great need to keep Democrats out of power. They're so beholden to the use of government to enforce the social norms they'd like to see I'm afraid for free thinkers. The liberals seem to see conservatives as the embodiment of The Handmaid's Tale while progressive actions seem to me the embodiment of Chairman Mao's re-education camps. I think we're much closer to the latter than the former.
The funny thing is that he has no principles of his own, he's just adopted Republican ones to gain access to their base. Except for racism, he's full-on into that.
This is the type of stuff that pushes people to Trump/GOP.
https://www.fox4news.com/news/protesters-clash-with-customers-at-uptown-dallas-restaurant
Yes, by all means let's shut down BLM protests and sweep the whole issue back under the rug where it belongs. /sarcasm
Yes, by all means let's shut down BLM protests and sweep the whole issue back under the rug where it belongs. /sarcasmI don't think anyone wants to shut down peaceful protests, it's just that the protests don't stay peaceful. And on top of that local prosecutors have been cowed into submission which ensures there's little to no consequences to that violence.
The other problem is in many of the events which trigger this violence, people of a certain political persuasion are more inclined to accept a self serving narrative rather than the facts of the event. Then those otherwise well meaning people latch onto the narrative en masse and use it to support a demand of retribution rather than justice. In the long run, that's not a winning strategy.
I live on a street of mostly senior residents and one by one they are putting up their Trump Pence signs. There are even guys in pickups driving around with large Trump flags waving in back. I don't do signs or make my political beliefs known to neighbors but I have to wonder what the great appeal is. His lifetime actions have shown him to be morally wretched and I don't see where his four years in office have moved us in a positive direction. Is it the oft repeated radical left/socialism line that pulls them in? It just baffles me so perhaps someone with a more conservative point of view can splain it to me???
Trump is essentially a backlash politician. In 2016, I think a lot of people voted for him to give the finger to the condescending, intolerably smug disdain of the Left. In the seemingly unlikely event he wins in 2020, I think it may largely be due to disgust with all the violence at those mostly peaceful demonstrations. It’s a snobs and mobs thing.
Teacher Terry
9-26-20, 11:19pm
I have been amazed at the number of people that don’t use critical thinking skills, are racist, don’t care about social problems or others. Many don’t follow politics and has no clue what’s even happening. Some people always vote for their party. Some people never travel, have limited education and only know what’s in their bubble of life socializing with like minded people and watching Fox News. I never thought our country would be in danger of losing our democracy.
frugal-one
9-27-20, 12:01am
Having the president call Rittenhouse a hero for shooting protesters in Kenosha is one example of promoting violence. Now the right-wing group Proud Boys are descending on Portland. These espouse white supremacy. Gee, wonder if the president will call this law and order too? See post #9... this is the response.
Saw 1 trump and 1 libertarian sign go up in my neighborhood recently. Talked to the person who put out the libertarian sign.... said he had to vote his conscience.... meaning he couldn’t vote for trump ...
The only signs I've seen in my area are a 6 foot banner on a fence that says, "Trump 2020 - Stop the Bull***t" (spelled correctly) and another, "Any Functioning Adult - 2020". I assume the latter excludes Trump. Overall, any election signs or bumper stickers seem far less common than other elections.
Trump's popularity is a mystery to me. I understand why people like the Patriot Boys like him, but not the everyday neighbor. I'd go with a fear mongering authoritarian theory where he creates an illusion of the economy running into the ground, cities falling into violence, and the country being turned into some sort of horrible European socialistic republic under the dems. And only his strong authority can save things. I suspect even his every day voter knows he is incapable of telling the truth but like his political platform in some way.
iris lilies
9-27-20, 9:54am
I dare not put up my Thank You Police sign on my block where on my side of the street the rainbow sentiments and Black Lives Matter signs gather. Oddly, all of the new houses across the street are bereft of signs. Not one sign on the opposite side of the street. Do they not appreciate black lives? Hmmm...Our block is made up of one side of the street houses built in the 1880s and the opposite side of the street has only those built after 2012.
But I just this moment made a new sign with Vista print and will put it on my back fence. It thanks refuse workers. Because that is my sentiment of the moment, thanking garbagemen. They are having a heavy workload these days because lots of workers are staying home so home garbage pick up is exceeding norms, while service needs for commercial buildings is lighter.
catherine
9-27-20, 11:03am
I can't put up political signs for obvious reasons--if I put up a Biden/Harris sign, DH will retaliate with a Trump/Pence sign. But in general, I don't put lawn signs up either. We did one time for a friend of ours who was running for Town Council, even though we thought he was a jerk.
Jane v2.0
9-27-20, 12:22pm
...
But I just this moment made a new sign with Vista print and will put it on my back fence. It thanks refuse workers. Because that is my sentiment of the moment, thanking garbagemen. They are having a heavy workload these days because lots of workers are staying home so home garbage pick up is exceeding norms, while service needs for commercial buildings is lighter.
I think that's a wonderful idea. What would we do without refuse workers? And they're not likely to shoot you in your sleep, either!
Jane v2.0
9-27-20, 12:45pm
Though he's a proven and prolific liar, there's one thing he's often said--truthfully-- that will define him for history: "Nobody's ever seen anything like it before!"
Jane v2.0
9-27-20, 12:50pm
I don't think anyone wants to shut down peaceful protests, it's just that the protests don't stay peaceful. And on top of that local prosecutors have been cowed into submission which ensures there's little to no consequences to that violence.
The other problem is in many of the events which trigger this violence, people of a certain political persuasion are more inclined to accept a self serving narrative rather than the facts of the event. Then those otherwise well meaning people latch onto the narrative en masse and use it to support a demand of retribution rather than justice. In the long run, that's not a winning strategy.
The facts of the event, in Portland at least, are that the fomenters of violence are rarely BLM protesters, but often their opposition. What better way to turn public opinion against BLM?
The facts of the event, in Portland at least, are that the fomenters of violence are rarely BLM protesters, but often their opposition. What better way to turn public opinion against BLM?I know many well meaning people find it important to advance that narrative, but they need to do a better job of it
Simplemind
9-27-20, 1:57pm
Thankfully both events in Portland ended up being peaceful and much less attendance than anticipated.
I know many well meaning people find it important to advance that narrative, but they need to do a better job of it
Like provide proof of charges lodged against perpetrators? I'm sure you could find out which miscreants were violent that way.
frugal-one
9-27-20, 2:21pm
I know many well meaning people find it important to advance that narrative, but they need to do a better job of it
It was noted in the news and newspapers that Proud Boys were in Portland dressed for combat. The peaceful protesters decided to change plans and went to another place to protest. There was no violence to speak of. There is your narrative.
Leaked Proud Boys (sic) correspondences discussed assassinating the mayor, among other actions.
https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/01/25/proud-boy-threatens-portland-mayor-im-coming-yo (https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/01/25/proud-boy-threatens-portland-mayor-im-coming-you)u
"The Proud Boys are a hate group known for their bigoted rhetoric against, among others, women and Muslims. The group’s involvement in a series of violent incidents in 2018 brought them national notoriety and attention (https://www.opb.org/news/article/portland-fbi-proud-boys-clarifies-statement/) from federal law enforcement."
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys
Is this the philosophy you're afraid Democrats will eliminate from public discourse, Alan? We still have free speech, and this kind of thing needs to be exposed, so I doubt it.:
“Let’s not bullshit,” Brian Brathovd, aka Caeralus Rex, told his co-hosts on the antisemitic The Daily Shoah — one of the most popular alt-right podcasts. If the Proud Boys “were pressed on the issue, I guarantee you that like 90% of them would tell you something along the lines of ‘Hitler was right. Gas the Jews.’”
It was noted in the news and newspapers that Proud Boys were in Portland dressed for combat.I don't know what that means. I would think that you can dress to protect yourself against combat but that would seem to be a preventative measure rather than the offensive measure you're implying. Is that what you meant?
Leaked Proud Boys (sic) correspondences discussed assassinating the mayor, among other actions. They are a known hate group.
https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/extremist-files/group/proud-boys
Is this the philosophy you're afraid Democrats will eliminate from public discourse, Alan? We still have free speech, and this kind of thing needs to be exposed, so I doubt it.:
No, I'm more concerned about the ability to say "I disagree with you" or "all lives matter" or "self defense is not murder" and not paying a heavy penalty for it.
ApatheticNoMore
9-27-20, 2:39pm
One point to consider that he has done things he said he would do. NAFTA replacement deal? Done.
But there is what this means and what people might have imagined it would mean. If people imagined a return to a pre-NAFTA world with much less outsourcing. Well nope, not happening. It's a few minor concessions that likely are improvements, affecting a small number of people, some of the better provisions of which were forced on Trump by the Dem house in negotiating anyway, and so actually are to their credit as much as anything. So a small number of people affected may care, but the type of change people might have thought was promised? Well it's not a large change to NAFTA.
No, I'm more concerned about the ability to say "I disagree with you" or "all lives matter" or "self defense is not murder" and not paying a heavy penalty for it.
"All lives matter" is just a way of pointedly ignoring that, historically, black lives haven't mattered--a refusal to admit that centuries of whipping, lynching, and police shootings haven't happened. Plenty of Republican lawmakers promote that line every day. I don't see any penalties. Self-defense is often an excuse for murder, and should be addressed in court, IMO. Where is the law that you can't disagree?
More from the Hatewatch article:
"The threats first came to the attention of Hatewatch after they were flagged by a user on Twitter. Axtell's tirade is one of the most recent attempts by members of the far-right network in the Pacific Northwest, anchored by the Proud Boys and Patriot Prayer, to initiate violent encounters with leftists and now, it seems, democratically elected officials. Since 2016, the two groups have partnered to hold dozens of rallies and “ flash marches” in West Coast cities in hopes of brawling with counterprotesters. Their rallies have regularly descended into violent riots."
I don't know what that means. I would think that you can dress to protect yourself against combat but that would seem to be a preventative measure rather than the offensive measure you're implying. Is that what you meant?
For one thing, it means they came armed. You're tying yourself in knots to defend troublemakers who are indefensible. If they haven't yet been classified as a terrorist group, it's just a matter of time.
"All lives matter" is just a way of pointedly ignoring that, historically, black lives haven't mattered--a refusal to admit that centuries of whipping, lynching, and police shootings haven't happened. Maybe it means that to you but to me it's a natural extension of "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
If you want to live in a color blind society, you have to stop segregating.
For one thing, it means they came armed. Ahhh, post #22 didn't mention that. The author seemed more offended by their dress.
You're tying yourself in knots to defend troublemakers who are indefensible.No, actually I'm not. I don't see much difference in anyone looking for trouble or engaging in destruction, whether you agree with some of them or not and whether you downplay one side and accentuate another is up to you. It's that disparity that I comment on, it doesn't make sense.
I see no conflict in believing both that black lives really do matter, and that people should be judged by the content of their character. Dr. King's words pointedly implied that people have been, and are, judged by their color. It was true when he was assassinated, and it's still true today.
From news reports, there's a world of difference between BLM protesters and right-wing hate groups. I can defend the latter's right to denigrate women, Muslims, POC, leftists, Jews, and myriad others, but they still constitute a violent hate group which is under scrutiny by the FBI, Homeland Security and other government agencies. In a Republican administration, I must point out.
But there is what this means and what people might have imagined it would mean. If people imagined a return to a pre-NAFTA world with much less outsourcing. Well nope, not happening. It's a few minor concessions that likely are improvements, affecting a small number of people, some of the better provisions of which were forced on Trump by the Dem house in negotiating anyway, and so actually are to their credit as much as anything. So a small number of people affected may care, but the type of change people might have thought was promised? Well it's not a large change to NAFTA.
Also, he keeps touting bills he's passed that were really passed by President Obama's administration, making him look like a real go-getter:
From Military.com:
At the end of Saturday's press conference, a reporter asked why Trump "keeps saying [he] passed 'Veterans Choice,'" when it was "passed in 2014." Trump told the reporter she was "finished," and he abruptly ended the press conference.
iris lilies
9-27-20, 3:45pm
Maybe it means that to you but to me it's a natural extension of "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
If you want to live in a color blind society, you have to stop segregating.
But being colorblind is old school and that is not how generic Janes want things to be. Apparently we are to shake off the shackles of color blindness and now SEE and RECOGNIZE color because to do otherwise , to say “one of the most obvious and conspicuous characteristics about a person is something you ignore is dismissive and trivializing.”
https://www.forbes.com/sites/janicegassam/2019/02/15/why-the-i-dont-see-color-mantra-is-hurting-diversity-and-inclusion-efforts/#18319b252c8d (https://www.forbes.com/sites/janicegassam/2019/02/15/why-the-i-dont-see-color-mantra-is-hurting-diversity-and-inclusion-efforts/#18319b252c8d)
ok, whatever. Personally, I am tired of attitude whiplash in the different points of view we are supposed to have taken over many decades. This one too shall pass and will become outdated and fuddy duddy, you wait and see.
Living in a place where everything is about race even when it’s not, here the Gestault 25 years ago when our neighborhood was going through some troubling times and we were trained up in correct=think, we learned the basic premise was people are not born racist they are made that way. So you ( generic you) have to look at how racists got that way.
Now the Gestault seems to be tribalism and recognition of The Other is inborn. Kinda 180% difference from previous training.
But of course the real rubber meets the road is to figure out how to get beyond those theories to live and work in a harmonious and diverse society that values equality for all.
frugal-one
9-27-20, 3:56pm
Ahhh, post #22 didn't mention that. The author seemed more offended by their dress.
No, actually I'm not. I don't see much difference in anyone looking for trouble or engaging in destruction, whether you agree with some of them or not and whether you downplay one side and accentuate another is up to you. It's that disparity that I comment on, it doesn't make sense.
No, I was not just offended by their dress. I neglected to mention the reason they were dressed this way. They were armed to the hilt. I did not correct my mistake because post#29 so elequently established the case.
No, I was not just offended by their dress. I neglected to mention the reason they were dressed this way. Ok, so you've mentioned it a second time, how were they dressed? Was it somehow different than any of their counter-protesters?
...
But of course the real rubber meets the road is to figure out how to get beyond those theories to live and work in a harmonious and diverse society that values equality for all.
That sounds perfectly fine to this Jane. You're right; we have to figure out how to get there.
3448"Some very fine people on both sides"
Maybe it means that to you but to me it's a natural extension of "I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin but by the content of their character."
If you want to live in a color blind society, you have to stop segregating.
Opting to be colorblind so that you can also be blind to the injustice that is still real is not the point. People who point out injustice are not segregationists. You can sit there and say "I'm colorblind--I'm not a racist" while ignoring realities of injustice but that doesn't mean the injustice doesn't exist and shouldn't be addressed. You may be colorblind if you fail to acknowledge it, but a nation that has that kind of colorblindness is not the nation that MLK was dreaming about.
Trump is essentially a backlash politician. In 2016, I think a lot of people voted for him to give the finger to the condescending, intolerably smug disdain of the Left. In the seemingly unlikely event he wins in 2020, I think it may largely be due to disgust with all the violence at those mostly peaceful demonstrations. It’s a snobs and mobs thing.
Otherwise known as "owning the libs," a concept invented by the anything-but-condescending right. :D
Opting to be colorblind so that you can also be blind to the injustice that is still real is not the point. People who point out injustice are not segregationists. You can sit there and say "I'm colorblind--I'm not a racist" while ignoring realities of injustice but that doesn't mean the injustice doesn't exist and shouldn't be addressed. You may be colorblind if you fail to acknowledge it, but a nation that has that kind of colorblindness is not the nation that MLK was dreaming about.
There was a reason that quote started with "I have a dream," not "Behold glorious reality."
There was a reason that quote started with "I have a dream," not "Behold glorious reality."We'll never behold that glorious reality as long as we segregate ourselves by race or nationality or gender. It seems odd to me that suggesting we shouldn't do that is seen as an affront.
We'll never behold that glorious reality as long as we segregate ourselves by race or nationality or gender. It seems odd to me that suggesting we shouldn't do that is seen as an affront.
I took a sociology class in college called Minority Groups. We all had to write long, involved papers recounting our experiences of others' cultures and races and propose solutions to problems related thereto. (Considering it was Portland in the sixties, I had a devil of a time padding my essay...) My solution was that we should all intermarry, render everyone an attractive shade of tan, and move on. Probably not practical, and we'd probably just find another way to distinguish ourselves, but at least it might have rendered the Proud Boys superfluous.
frugal-one
9-27-20, 5:36pm
Ok, so you've mentioned it a second time, how were they dressed? Was it somehow different than any of their counter-protesters?
Verbatim....
Several hundred people, dozens of them wearing armor, gathered to support President Donald Trump and his "law and order" reelection campaign Saturday afternoon...
Organized by the Proud Boys, a group that has been designated as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center...
Local and state elected officials forcefully condemned the event and rushed to shore up law enforcement ranks as left-wing groups organized several rallies to oppose the Proud Boys' message. About 1,000 counter-protesters gathered at another park.
Verbatim....
Several hundred people, dozens of them wearing armor, gathered to support President Donald Trump and his "law and order" reelection campaign Saturday afternoon...
Organized by the Proud Boys, a group that has been designated as a hate group by the Southern Poverty Law Center...
Local and state elected officials forcefully condemned the event and rushed to shore up law enforcement ranks as left-wing groups organized several rallies to oppose the Proud Boys' message. About 1,000 counter-protesters gathered at another park.
Oh, I see. Some type of body armor worn by a few dozen people out of several hundred. I wonder how many of the thousand or so counter-protesters wore the same?
iris lilies
9-27-20, 5:45pm
Oh, I see. Some type of body armor worn by a few dozen people out of several hundred. I wonder how many of the thousand or so counter-protesters wore the same?
But body armor is silly at a peaceful protest. Well, unless you are a veteran of peaceful protests where participants throw and blow up stuff.
frugal-one
9-27-20, 5:47pm
Counter protesters gathered at another park..... to avoid the Proud Boys..... peaceful demonstration. You just don't want to see that the Proud Boys came there looking for trouble. trump is saying those (like Rittenhouse) are heroes when they come armed. Law and order .. ha.
But body armor is silly at a peaceful protest. Well, unless you are a veteran of peaceful protests where participants throw and blow up stuff.
The Proud Boys are thugs, plain and simple. If you read my links, they hate a whole panoply of people who don't deserve it, complete with terroristic threats to various and sundry. It's eye-opening to see people leaping to their defense. They were looking for a fight, and didn't get it. Boo f-ing hoo.
You just don't want to see that the Proud Boys came there looking for trouble.No, I suspect some of them did.
trump is saying those (like Rittenhouse) are heroes when they come armed. Law and order .. ha. Businesses were being burned and looted while the police were under orders to limit confrontations. I made a career protecting persons and property while armed, sometimes somebody has to.
Reports of widespread violence in Portland seem wildly overblown to me; my friends there haven't seen much beyond graffiti. But it makes good fodder for Trumpsters' law and order types--a good excuse for him to flex his flaccid muscles and send federal troops, I guess.
Reports of widespread violence in Portland seem wildly overblown to me; my friends there haven't seen much beyond graffiti. But it makes good fodder for Trumpsters' law and order types--a good excuse for him to flex his flaccid muscles and send federal troops, I guess.
My local contacts in Portland report they had looters from Seattle come down last weekend and set up shop in their kitchen, baking cookies and pies, and making quite a bit of mess.
My local contacts in Portland report they had looters from Seattle come down last weekend and set up shop in their kitchen, baking cookies and pies, and making quite a bit of mess.
There's always been a rivalry between the two; fiercer now, probably due to COVID. I hope they were able to resolve their differences peacefully. :~)
I know many well meaning people find it important to advance that narrative, but they need to do a better job of it
And those who disagree need to do a better job of refutation.
Ok, so you've mentioned it a second time, how were they dressed? Was it somehow different than any of their counter-protesters?
There are plenty of articles out there that talk about it. Leave fox "news" and you'll learn.
We'll never behold that glorious reality as long as we segregate ourselves by race or nationality or gender. It seems odd to me that suggesting we shouldn't do that is seen as an affront.
And we'll never behold that glorious reality if people who claim to "not see color" continue to ignore the fact that LOTS of people DO see color and react to it in crappy ways.
iris lilies
9-28-20, 8:40am
I think that's a wonderful idea. What would we do without refuse workers? And they're not likely to shoot you in your sleep, either!
I’m not likely to be shot in my sleep at all, even in my murderous ZIP Code. However, any threat I have of being shot is certainly not coming from the police.
The number of random shootings by brothers of “citizens” (as we are called in The Wire television show) is increasing.
But your view of my world is quaint.
My local contacts in Portland report they had looters from Seattle come down last weekend and set up shop in their kitchen, baking cookies and pies, and making quite a bit of mess.
It’s good to see the boutique bolsheviks of Seattle finding common ground with the artisanal arsonists of Portland.
And we'll never behold that glorious reality if people who claim to "not see color" continue to ignore the fact that LOTS of people DO see color and react to it in crappy ways.
I think the real breakthrough will be when we can see beyond color and dispense with old-timey racism as well as the more au courant racism of woke Ideology.
Jane v2.0
9-28-20, 10:11am
Trump is essentially a backlash politician. In 2016, I think a lot of people voted for him to give the finger to the condescending, intolerably smug disdain of the Left. In the seemingly unlikely event he wins in 2020, I think it may largely be due to disgust with all the violence at those mostly peaceful demonstrations. It’s a snobs and mobs thing.
When authoritarians come to power, they generally round up the educated and trundle them off to work camps or worse. I thought that was to prevent coordinated resistance, but maybe it was simple resentment all along.
catherine
9-28-20, 10:22am
I think the real breakthrough will be when we can see beyond color and dispense with old-timey racism as well as the more au courant racism of woke Ideology.
And what will be the signals for that?
Being proud to say that you invite your black neighbors over for pot luck every year?
Or
Maybe when blacks don't get disproportionately pulled over by police than whites
Maybe when blacks don't get disproportionately jailed for minor offenses than whites
Maybe when blacks are proportionately represented in C-suites and Congress
Maybe when people understand why the Confederate flag might be offensive to huge segments of the population
Maybe when the President stops being accused of being unAmerican because he had a Black father born in Kenya
Yes, that will be a wonderful breakthrough.
ApatheticNoMore
9-28-20, 10:53am
If the country with one of (or maybe the but the data is probably dubious some places) highest incarceration rates on the planet has people being murdered in their beds (not by cops) as a common occurrence, then maybe law and order isn't really accomplishing all that much, at best a stalemate? Sure some form of law enforcement exists nearly everywhere, but if you have the highest incarceration rate that's law and order (reliance on the criminal justice system) on steroids no? And how is that working out?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
Teacher Terry
9-28-20, 10:53am
Totally agree Catherine!!
iris lilies
9-28-20, 11:36am
It’s good to see the boutique bolsheviks of Seattle finding common ground with the artisanal arsonists of Portland.
Oh this is rich!
I didn’t know there was rivalry between the two cities, but I don’t see why one would go to Seattle if one could live in Portland. I say that because of less expensive real estate in Portland and also better weather. I think.
Jane v2.0
9-28-20, 11:51am
Oh this is rich!
I didn’t know there was rivalry between the two cities, but I don’t see why one would go to Seattle if one could live in Portland. I say that because of less expensive real estate in Portland and also better weather. I think.
As someone who moved from a Portland suburb to a Seattle suburb, I would say that Seattle is much more scenic and has a better library system than Portland. Portland's real estate is a little cheaper, but I wouldn't say the weather is better. Portland is likely to have slightly icier winters and slightly hotter summers. I like the weather here.
I didn't know about a rivalry either, until I went to a wedding in Seattle, and told my kids in Portland how much I liked Seattle, and they weren't impressed.
I thoought the Seattle waterfront was really, really cool.
And what will be the signals for that?
Being proud to say that you invite your black neighbors over for pot luck every year?
Or
Maybe when blacks don't get disproportionately pulled over by police than whites
Maybe when blacks don't get disproportionately jailed for minor offenses than whites
Maybe when blacks are proportionately represented in C-suites and Congress
Maybe when people understand why the Confederate flag might be offensive to huge segments of the population
Maybe when the President stops being accused of being unAmerican because he had a Black father born in Kenya
Yes, that will be a wonderful breakthrough.
I wouldn’t contend racism doesn’t exist, but I would argue that counter-racism is not an effective tool to combat it. If we assign villain and victim status based on what people look like rather than the facts of any given case, we will never get anywhere.
When authoritarians come to power, they generally round up the educated and trundle them off to work camps or worse. I thought that was to prevent coordinated resistance, but maybe it was simple resentment all along.
Resentment isn’t the most attractive motivation to be sure, nor the most intelligent from a political perspective. I don’t think your most forward-thinking authoritarians need to go to the expense of work camps if all they need to do is cancel academics, editors, writers or corporate managers for wrong-thinking or heterodox speech.
gimmethesimplelife
9-29-20, 12:22pm
You'all know my zip code by now. Very dark blue and very Democrat. Here you just don't vote against yourself by voting Republican - it just isn't done. Why would anyone in the 85006.vote Republican?
Seriously, for what purpose, what gain? To vote GOP doesn't compute where I live - to do so is both seriously disrespectful/self-sabotaging and also makes no sense whatsoever. Rob
gimmethesimplelife
9-29-20, 12:25pm
As someone who moved from a Portland suburb to a Seattle suburb, I would say that Seattle is much more scenic and has a better library system than Portland. Portland's real estate is a little cheaper, but I wouldn't say the weather is better. Portland is likely to have slightly icier winters and slightly hotter summers. I like the weather here.I remember the library system in Portland was not so great but I always considered Portland more scenic - maybe because it"s smaller and s river cuts through it and I felt closer to nature there than in Seattle. Rob
catherine
9-29-20, 12:27pm
I am absolutely in love with the Portland Japanese Garden. I would live there just to be able to stroll through that garden at will.
Jane v2.0
9-29-20, 12:33pm
I remember the library system in Portland was not so great but I always considered Portland more scenic - maybe because it"s smaller and s river cuts through it and I felt closer to nature there than in Seattle. Rob
I would agree that the downtown Seattle area isn't the most picturesque, but I love the Eastside--especially the Lake Washington waterfront, and West Seattle on the Sound. The King County Library is considered one of the best in the nation. Portland has a lot of nice, homogeneous old neighborhoods with pleasant architecture and treed lots.
Simplemind
9-30-20, 11:32pm
Interesting comments on the Portland library system. I don't have anything to compare it to but pre-covid I was in one at least once if not twice a week. I've had nothing but positive experiences. They increased their digital offerings since the pandemic and that made me happy as well.
My cousin lives in Seattle. I like it up there as well. I do love our bookstores and food/wine scene.
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