View Full Version : Gifted children, yay?
I really like some feedback on this please...
Two years ago we were called up by the primary school my oldest daughter Joanna went to. Joanna was in 1st grade at that time and simply loved her school and her class. But when we sat down with three teachers and a vice principal we were told they wanted to advance her to the second grade. Joanna was only 3 months into her first grade class. The school had tested her and the results had shown surprisingly promising we were told. (At this time we should have asked some more questions I agree, as it turned out her 1st grade teacher had a hunch as to how intelligent our daughter could be and that was the only reason the school tested Joanna. In total three teachers had tested her, in total of 9 tests.)
We didn't jump of happiness right away. We knew Joanna. And we also knew in second grade were a lot older children. Would they get along?
Joanna went to second grade that same year. We agreed with the school that if this experiment wouldn't turn out to work for Joanna she would be put back to 1st grade.
Now, our daughter is in French Immersion*, grade 3. A total different school but the French Immersion classes are small. She is 7 and most of the kids in her class are 9 or 10. And it is not a success at all.
Her French is fluent, I won't complain about that. But when we spoke to her teacher a couple of months ago, the teacher didn't find Joanna a hard worker or even smart at all. Joanna's math was bad we were told and Joanna had lots of little issues with the other kids.
One morning I sat down with Joanna and I taught her a timetable. She had the numbers memorized the same day. So I taught her another one and another one. And when I asked her why she didn't so well in class she admitted she didn't want to appear smarter than the rest of the class. So she just screwed up, deliberately.
I just sat back for a second. Her is a 7 year old girl having one huge issue.
She is really really smart, the school said she is gifted. But socially she is really only 7. Just a kid. The school system in Canada doesnot provide any sufficient education for kids like Joanna. She is bored out of her pants in school. She speaks four languages fluently, even beyond the point of my knowledge and she excelled in math really quick after I had told her to do better in school.
Summer vacation is starting soon and I'm really wondering how grade 4 is going to be for her. I'm kind of irritated by the fact that people almost cheer out of happiness when they learn we have a 'gifted' child. Lucky us!
I'm sure I'm not the only one with an issue like this, I feel I should have left her in that grade 1 at the time.
*French Immersion = all regular classes are given in French
I wish I could have been your daughter when I was younger and in school. :) As long as your daughter is content, happy, and is showing no signs of stress or upset over being bumped and bounced along (ahead), I say let it be. Personally, I think as she gets older, it will become easier and easier for her to establish a place among older peers and settle in.
I hear ya, it is a complicated issue that often has created tense conversations here. I strongly believe in specialized education for gifted children as we have for children with learning disabilities (although the cost should not impact the necessary programs for children with a different set of learning challenges). The really gifted, not just super smart, but gifted with the set of traits that are both positive and negative need a specific learning situation for the best growth. Gifted kids actually have a high drop out rate from high school and the pattern for that starts in elementary with how they learn to get along in school. The intelligence and ability to do the work does not change the overall maturity so younger kids that are promoted may struggle with peer interactions and expectations for more independant work than they are capable of. However putting them back where they are spending all day unchallenged and trying to appear not as smart as other kids is also not a great situation. I can say I first recall consciously trying not to appear too smart by 3rd grade. I would do the math timed tests and then wait until one other person turned theirs in before turning mine in.
I don't know what resources are available in Canada. I was very excited that the charter school movement in the US has created some unique schools here that can better meet the needs of gifted kids. My son is in an audition based school for the arts which is part of the public system, and we still have major issues (they all also have depression). All my kids do frankly and all have some level of gifted-ness. All the parenting advice and systems out there are a struggle for us. I have parented differently, much more collaboratively than most. It is fine until my kids have issues and I get so much advice for the more traditional models.
I read an excellent book called 'how the gifted brain learns'. I have to recommend it highly if you like reading these things. One really good thing I took away is that the gifted brain needs less repititions than other brains. In fact with reviews past 2-3 times they lose the information. So if you are advocating for your child in a regular classroom one thing you can ask for is that they be given an option for other independant work when it comes to reviews before. Hmm, I am thinking about connecting this to something else going on for my kids, deep thoughts!
Okay as far as what to do now, I would look at building connections and social groups outside of school. She is likely one to get along with people much older as long as they respect she is still a kid. So maybe groups around the languages she speaks or an interest she has. You may have to sit in with her if they do not allow children but go ahead and push a little. It is highly unlikely that school will ever meet all her needs unless they create a highly gifted program/school but the rest of the world is more flexible.
Originally posted by Juicifer.
I'm kind of irritated by the fact that people almost cheer out of happiness when they learn we have a 'gifted' child.This I don't understand. Could it be that people cheer and praise because they wish they had a child the same? Maybe, like myself, one who struggled and battled her way through school (and life), maybe other people who lived the same see a dream and a wish in a very smart child like yours? Maybe they wish they too could have been born with the same? I know I do. But to get irritated over peoples comments just doesn't at all make any sense to me. Be proud. :)
I was that little girl that is your daughter. I was always teased at being the first one to finish a quiz, and like Zoe Girl, learned to wait until someone else finished before handing mine in to avoid that. I was put into a gifted enrichment program in 4th grade, which was Monday afternoons and all day Wednesday at a school across town. I had this witch of a teacher, who should never have been allowed to be around children, for my "regular" class the rest of the time who would constantly humiliate me in front of the class. For example, I was supposed to also do any homework that was assigned in regular class while I was away. I would ask the teacher, she'd say there was none, and then when in regular class, she'd call on me for the answer. Of course I didn't do the assignment, because she didn't tell me about the assignment. Then she'd say with great sarcasm " Oh herbgeek is so smart, and yet she didn't finish the assignment". Blech. Like I said she shouldn't have been allowed around children.
When they asked me if I wanted to continue in the program the following year, of course I said no.
All through high school, I held myself back to not appear the smartest or the quickest with tests. And I never learned adequate study skills, because I never had to. I only had to hear or read something once. And then when I got to college, I really really struggled.
Even at 50, I still have some residual issues with this, but am getting over it. I see patterns way before other people do (I also pay more attention to the human interactions than most engineers do). When I talk with people about what I'm noticing, I often get blown off at the time, but weeks or months later, the rest of the team realizes the same thing. After a period of this, my peers and bosses learn to listen. Not that I'm always right, I'm not. But people are remarkably consistent in their behavior, and when they are doing something out of character, there is usually a reason.
So why am I telling you all this personal history? To make sure you help your daughter be proud of being smart, and instead of embarrassed or humiliated. Help her to shine in areas outside of school too, so she has other things to occupy her, in case her peer group does tease her. My mom was not especially helpful here, on one hand she liked to brag to her friends about my report card. On the other hand, I got mixed messages about being a smarty pants show off and later, as a teen, that I would never get a boyfriend, because boys don't like girls that are smarter than them. !!!!!
This I don't understand. Could it be that people cheer and praise because they wish they had a child the same? Maybe, like myself, one who struggled and battled her way through school (and life), maybe other people who lived the same see a dream and a wish in a very smart child like yours? Maybe they wish they too could have been born with the same? I know I do. But to get irritated over peoples comments just doesn't at all make any sense to me. Be proud. :)
I too get irritated by comments to "be proud" of my gifted child. It is not a walk in the park for the gifted child academically. It is definatly not a walk in the park for the parent. Years of trying to get your child academically challenged. Teachers insisting that the basic work be done before more challenging work can be given (what kid wants to do double the work?). Not fitting in socially. Asynchronouse development between their intellect, social/emotional level, maturity level etc... Dealing with major issues like anxiety disorder and depression. The child denying who they are in order to try and fit in. Not to mention that a good portion of the gifted population also have some type of learning disability to complicate things.
I am proud of my son. I'm proud of his charactor, I'm proud of the man he is becoming, of his heart for volunteering with the homeless. His courage to take on challenges, his abilty to talk to people on multiple levels from a college professor to a homeless man... he can talk to them where they are at. I'm proud of him for mentoring middle school students and I'm proud of him for having the conviction to chase a dream.
Am I proud of him for being gifted? No. Giftness is just how he was wired and required no special effort or personal growth. IMO it is not something to be proud of anymore than him having red hair is something to be proud of.
ApatheticNoMore
6-9-11, 1:19pm
Honestly I don't think they promote people grades ahead in the U.S. that way any more (or have for many years really) because of all the psychological issues it causes! Seriously, I think it is actually strongly discouraged.
As for people who think being smart makes up for everything. I doesn't. It is good to be smart, in the long run it IS AN asset. But it doesn't makes up for the social/psychological issues. Haha, in the worst case scenario you just end up an adult with tons of psychological problems trying to THINK your way out of them! A laughable figure really.
Probably what she is really learning: be smart/don't be smart! Obviously she gets some praise for her intelligence from people like you. But then she gets a hard time for it from other kids. Incredibly confusing, a double bind. I sometimes felt I would be torn apart by this same conflict growing up when I started to deliberately aim for lower grades in junior high (I felt TORN by that conflict at least until I got into college - should I be smart or not - I felt it tore at the very core of my being - and no I couldn't THINK my way out of it back then). It didn't help I went to very poor schools, I could get As at those schools in my sleep, I aimed for Bs instead and deliberately got things wrong. Inside major conflict: "but being smart is good, no being smart is bad/ridiculed .... I don't know, it's all so confusing ....".
As for an answer, there is no easy answer: she's kind of the textbook case of someone who should be home-schooled :). But ok, that's not always an answer. Then possibly private schools of an alternative bent? Perhaps something like a Montessori focus maybe? I don't know, just speculating, but Montessori principles like mixed age classrooms and self-driven education would probably work great here (the strict age segregation of the school system is harmful). Also if you want to continue to encourage her to use her gifts but the school system is obviously not a very welcoming environment, perhaps something extra-curricular, maybe she is interested in learning an instrument or even something like art etc.? These things actually do use intelligence, they're just not considered so nerdy (not that she should believe there is anything at all wrong with nerdy, but a creative expression of her gifts might benefit her, and something like an instrument actually requires HARD WORK from anyone, no matter how gifted they are - it counters a kind of arrogance, where everything comes easy).
Does your kid have friends at school? Does she at least have friends outside of school that she shares non-academic fun with? Even with what is generally the grand goal of the whole education system in mind: economic success in adulthood. Sure intelligence will help here! No doubt about it, but without social/emotional intelligence - uh oh you just dropped out of college because even though you have the big brain, you couldn't handle what was going on emotionally in your life then, oops you just got passed up for a promotion because even though you can run rings around people in problem solving you are such a loner and a bubbly people-person got the job you didn't, oops can't even focus on your work anymore due to all your emotional issues .... Yea this is a worse case scenario and a loving home can counter much of it.
One morning I sat down with Joanna and I taught her a timetable. She had the numbers memorized the same day. So I taught her another one and another one. And when I asked her why she didn't so well in class she admitted she didn't want to appear smarter than the rest of the class. So she just screwed up, deliberately.
I did this, around the same age. Mom wondered why she was getting phone calls about my poor reading from the teacher, when I'd been reading since 3. In my case, I just thought, hey, reading slowly and haltingly is the way they seem to do it here, so I will play along!
I was not allowed to skip grades because my mother wanted me to be social with kids my own age. In general, I would have preferred to skip the grades -- I was a shy and quiet kid, and, given that I was socially awkward anyway, I might as well have been doing advanced work. My teachers did come up with some advanced activities for me to do while the rest of the class worked on something I could already do. Perhaps you can arrange something like this with your child's teacher?
As for an answer, there is no easy answer: she's kind of the textbook case of someone who should be home-schooled :).
Not much to add. I was home-schooled from kindergarten through 12th grade when I started college (local university, started when I was 14). I don't think I was gifted; just going at my own pace. I do have to say I'm constantly surprised when my DW shares stories from high school. I do think I turned out mostly normal, but then, how would I know :|(
And, no, I don't feel like I had a problem fitting in at college. By then, I think people are too wrapped up in their own thing and generally just assume you're supposed to be there (with some exceptions here and there but nowhere near the norm)
loosechickens
6-9-11, 2:22pm
Boy, I don't know about the "skipping". I was that child myself. I learned to read before I was three years old, and I went to kindergarten carting my Bobbsey Twins books for odd moments. The school tested me and found I had an extremely high IQ, and from that point on, my life was miserable. They skipped me and skipped me and I was in fifth grade before I was eight years old.
I didn't have any trouble with the schoolwork (in fact, I was hiding a library book behind most of my textbooks when we had them open, because I read through all the textbooks at home the first week of school, and had digested them).
BUT........I was a seven year old when it came to small motor skills (why do we have to have Nancy on OUR mural committee? She'll mess up the picture!")........I was an average seven year old in sports (why do we have to have Nancy on OUR team? We took her last week!"), and socially and in every other way other than schoolwork, I was a "little kid" compared to the rest, and far behind.
I got through it o.k. (and this was before the days of programs for gifted kids), got the better part of my education from reading at the public library, but never really did recover from all the other stuff. I still dread any kind of team sports, never developed any artistic talents, etc. and kind of wish that they'd just left me alone, provided me with stacks of library books on subjects I found interesting and left me with kids my own age.
I like the idea of "enrichment" for kids with areas in which they are gifted, but it's a rare kid who is "gifted" in all areas, so when they are pushed ahead because of one or two abilities, sometimes the fact that they are only "normal" in many others is neglected, and in competition with much older kids, even lower than "normal".
I still have faith in my intelligence, but my self esteem in the areas where I was lacking trying to compete with kids three and four years older than me left scars that are with me still.
is there a Montessori option in your neighborhood?
Juicifer, can you volunteer in the classroom a few times and build up a relationship with the teacher so that you can be open with him/her about your daughter's situation? Sometimes they cannot see what is going on with all the other issues that need attention. You daughter needs to find something that is hers to excel - music, skating, chess etc., where she will earn the respect of her peers.
There are enrichment programs and French immersion is a good approach with the right teacher.
We provided a lot of enrichment for our children plus music lessons to help diversify their interests and generate enthusiasm.
Originally posted by Artist.
I too get irritated by comments to "be proud" of my gifted child.Guess it sort of goes back to, "not happy when no one comments, not happy when people do"... As a parent I'm proud of whatever my kids achieve and in the event any one of my kids excel ahead and above their counterparts, all the power to 'em! I also think it's an inaccurate claim to make a generalized blanket statement pertaining to- "the child denying who they are in order to try and fit in". That definitely does not apply to every child.
I was that little girl that is your daughter. I was always teased at being the first one to finish a quiz, and like Zoe Girl, learned to wait until someone else finished before handing mine in to avoid that. I was put into a gifted enrichment program in 4th grade, which was Monday afternoons and all day Wednesday at a school across town. I had this witch of a teacher, who should never have been allowed to be around children, for my "regular" class the rest of the time who would constantly humiliate me in front of the class. For example, I was supposed to also do any homework that was assigned in regular class while I was away. I would ask the teacher, she'd say there was none, and then when in regular class, she'd call on me for the answer. Of course I didn't do the assignment, because she didn't tell me about the assignment. Then she'd say with great sarcasm " Oh herbgeek is so smart, and yet she didn't finish the assignment". Blech. Like I said she shouldn't have been allowed around children.
When they asked me if I wanted to continue in the program the following year, of course I said no.
All through high school, I held myself back to not appear the smartest or the quickest with tests. And I never learned adequate study skills, because I never had to. I only had to hear or read something once. And then when I got to college, I really really struggled.
Even at 50, I still have some residual issues with this, but am getting over it. I see patterns way before other people do (I also pay more attention to the human interactions than most engineers do). When I talk with people about what I'm noticing, I often get blown off at the time, but weeks or months later, the rest of the team realizes the same thing. After a period of this, my peers and bosses learn to listen. Not that I'm always right, I'm not. But people are remarkably consistent in their behavior, and when they are doing something out of character, there is usually a reason.
So why am I telling you all this personal history? To make sure you help your daughter be proud of being smart, and instead of embarrassed or humiliated. Help her to shine in areas outside of school too, so she has other things to occupy her, in case her peer group does tease her. My mom was not especially helpful here, on one hand she liked to brag to her friends about my report card. On the other hand, I got mixed messages about being a smarty pants show off and later, as a teen, that I would never get a boyfriend, because boys don't like girls that are smarter than them. !!!!!
I could have written much of this myself, except I never learned to keep quiet and thus was ridiculed from about 2nd grade on. Grade school and high school were miserable. But college was awesome, because finally I was around my own kind, AND I was around people way smarter than me. Which is also true now - I work with a lot of really bright PhD's, it's good to be smart, and I find the opportunity to learn a LOT. However, I used to have issues where I would notice things and get blown off - so I've just learned my way around it. This just means that there are four people who have the power to make things happen: The CEO, the COO, the VP, and one other guy, and I just tell them my concerns. And the manager who blew me off? Well, he's not the manager anymore. His listening skills sucked.
It's tough being a gifted child or being a parent of a gifted child. And there is SUCH a range. I was nowhere near learning 4 languages at age 7. But in my rural small town, it didn't matter, it still sucked. There's nothing wrong with being proud of it. You just have to channel it into something productive. Being smart is great. Do you want your kid graduating from med school at 18? Probably not.
jennipurrr
6-10-11, 5:07pm
I was one of those fairly miserable smart kids. Only in grad school did I get over the ok, let me sit here and pretend to check my answers so someone else can turn in the test first thing...maybe its then I finally had some competition, who knows. I guess at that point there's no more social penalty for being the smartest.
Aside from the occasional great teacher, I was completely bored out of my wits through middle and high school. I had a good experience in elementary school with the pull them out of class gifted program. I was considered to move a grade ahead for math in kindergarten, but my parents didn't move me...not sure why, but I am socially awkward anyway, I can't imagine how bad it would have been in elementary school.
I was fortunate to grow up in a college town, so my parents enrolled me in some fabulous summer programs. I still know most of what I know about geology from a summer program I took when I was 8, which sounds crazy but I know more than most people. It sounds like you are doing really well challenging your child academically...I would just try to stay abreast of helping her find her niche socially. I always did not some nonacademic things...girl scouts, softball, church camp, etc. French immersion sounds fabulous, but if she is eating her lunch at the end of the table by herself it probably feels like a prison sentence. Someone told me once that as long as a kid has one or two good friends they are doing alright, and I really believe that...everybody has their own place and as long as you've got a couple of buddies to share it with life is sure a lot easier.
You guys gave me some great ideas. I have two younger children to look after so I wouldn't be able to assist in her class. But I contacted the fourth grade teacher already and shared a bit of my issues. She was very positive and wants to meet me and my partner so we can get some answers and perhaps work on a plan. As for home schooling: I wouldn't want my daughter to completely go through home schooling because I feel the social aspect is very important for her. But I still thought this was a good idea, I can buy her a camera and have her develop pictures. I am semi-professional in photography myself so that would give her something completely different to focus on. And that is just an example, I have a small list with projects we can do together over the summer and I hope that things like that will give her the challenge she needs, even if it seem simple things (I love photography, if I wouldn't have children I can spend hours and hours working on it). On my list are things like building a fairy house (I found some really good board and material for that at a yard sale), painting her own room, and more like those hands on things. Now I come to think of it: we can get canvas and frames and make our own paintings... see plenty of things to do! And I hope this is going to work for her.
Thanks for all the positive input!
It's tough being a gifted child or being a parent of a gifted child. And there is SUCH a range. I was nowhere near learning 4 languages at age 7. But in my rural small town, it didn't matter, it still sucked.
I went through this myself. It was no fun in a declining urban neighborhood either. I forced my parents to move me to another school when I was 12. One of the best decisions I ever made. Hindsight (and Facebook) have made me suspect that I blanked 4th through early 7th grades from my mind.
In case you're interested I'd like to give a bit of back up;
I talked to my daughter's (Joanna) fourth grade teacher before the school vacation started. We didn't know each other and she didn't seem to worried about my issues and I imagine she can't be because she never really met Joanna either. Anyways, during the summer I spent a lot of one on one time with Joanna. I gave her 'chores' she liked doing, nothing intellectual but she helped me with trimming and pruning tree's and bushes, we went for coffee and donuts, I tried to let her drive the car (she couldn't do it because her legs were too short) and we had great fun. I let her earn some money, we read books together and we wrote letters to family members. We talked a lot about being smart and I think I succeeded in explaining to her that she shouldn't be afraid of her capacities. Or what other children think of that. Anyways, her first report in fourth grade had a number of C's and I was surprised. I had a good talk with her and as it appears her best girlfriend in school had two A+'s. That bothered her. Because she wanted A+'s as well! Last week we got her second report and there they were, the A's and the A+'s. Her teacher told a gripping story about how proud she was at Joanna and although it was proof for us Joanna had deliberately been slacking, I'm now glad we went through this fase. It brought me and Joanna closer together and I also learned a side from her I didn't know. Not necessarily the best side of her but at least it gives me some knowledge for the future.
sweetana3
11-24-11, 10:36pm
These are the issues that parents need to take in hand. No one at the school is better than you at really helping your child. Make sure she has experiences, reading, activities that expand her horizons. If the school is not giving her enough, consider a specialized tutor or activity in something she is really interested in. Learn about how she learns, what she reads, what she is interested in. It is up to you to keep her both interested and motivated.
I think that sounds just awesome juicifer
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