View Full Version : What is the one spiritual quality that you value most?
I recently felt the need to withdraw from both the Board and membership of a small cherished organization. I struggled with alternatives to withdrawal but found there were few that were doable.
Being introspective, I wondered what the challenge really was about. I liked the people basically, the purpose of the organization was basically good so what was the straw that broke my camel's back?
The activities of the organization included community donations to other organizations of time and money.
It came down to values once again.
At the end of my reflection, I realized that I value transparency. I mentioned at different times the importance of the organization being transparent and being seen to be transparent as well as our efforts on its behalf.
Over the past three years, some of the members would undertake activities that would reflect on the organization that the rest of the Board knew nothing about. Some activities even left the Board members vulnerable to dealing with possible legal issues. I raised this concern several times. These were not evil people but their skill set lacked a sense of public accountability.
Sometimes expensive contractor services for the building maintenance were solicited without all the Board being consulted regarding the need or options. These all got dealt with as they arose.
The 'straw' - some of the group continued to hold public meetings when all meetings were halted by a government mandate during lockdown due to Covid 19. I initially was not aware of these meetings and yet I as a Board member would be held accountable as would the organization itself.
So while I always had considered kindness and empathy as very important values, I now know that I value transparency more.
What quality do you value most?
catherine
10-26-20, 4:37pm
Like Ben & Jerry's ice cream, it's hard to pick just one.
That's why I actually had a bracelet made for myself with stones representing my elders and the virtues I associated with them. I was so lucky to have fantastic elders as role models.
So here are the virtues I thank my elders for every day in prayer:
My mother: Courage and The Heart of a Child
My MIL: Grit and Temperance (Frugality)
My grandmother: Devotion to God
My great-aunt: Simplicity and Peace
My aunt: Grace and Beauty
I truly can't pick one. If I were to pick the one that I need it would be courage. If I would pick the one I want, it would be Beauty. If it would be the one I want my grandkids to associate with me, it would be Simplicity and Peace. If it were the one I really admire, it would be Grit.
My life’s mantra is unconditional positive regard. I love the humanist psychologists.
iris lilies
10-26-20, 4:53pm
Transparency is important, foe sure! What a crummy way to make end runs around the Board!
I see our little hobby groups doing some of that, at least, members might see it that way, but these are plant societies essentially run by the founders. So, while input and participation by all is extolled, Founders essentially do what they wanna do.
And really? I’m OK with that because these are small hobby groups with limited reach and small treasuries so it’s not like anyone is stealing the money for personal gain or ruining the reputation of our organization Because the founders are the figureheads and essentially are the voice of the organization. Like it or not.
Now when it comes to my neighborhood association (and I’m on the board for that) those that manage are all quite sincere in involving the community and other board members in decisions. Some of the committee heads are fairly useless or run their area “my way or the highway” and consequently are not the best ambassadors of the organization, but With volunteers you get what you get and can only guide them.
Razz, I will bet your organization will take serious note of your resignation. That may cause them to change some of their ways.
I like these lyrics from Jewel "in the end only kindness matters".
happystuff
10-27-20, 10:52am
I'm really not sure what would be defined as a "spiritual quality" versus other qualities. So many qualities are equally important and often go hand-in-hand.
But to answer the question, on an organizational level, I think I rank "honesty" pretty high. On an individual level, I think I pick "kindness".
iris lilies
10-27-20, 11:16am
I like my word to mean something. There are many aspects to that, but I dont like making promises that
i cannot keep. Or I dont like taking on tasks And responsibilities I cannot finish.
In that regard I am the conscience of our neighborhood organization. I am always on alert for the things we seem to say we will do, obligations we make, that dissipate over time and are easily forgotten by new Board of Directors.
Having been here for 30 years I have heard the same ideas floated over and over. Each generation floating the idea thinks it is a great new idea. I DO respect that the New People get to decide the trajectory of our organization and
i want them to be successful, but I also tire of hearing their breathless enthusiasm at throwing out ideas that have been thrown out for 30 years. The magical/mystical grant writer who will fill our coffers with gold. The super organized administrative assistant who will run our organization for $8,000 salary. The constant call for volunteers, and when those volunteers appear, their communications are not answered, these people are ignored.
The same mistakes over and over.
That is what I am trying to stop at the Board level.
IL, I can relate to being the conscience. Eventually, one gets tired of that role though.
iris lilies
10-27-20, 11:44am
IL, I can relate to being the conscience. Eventually, one gets tired of that role though.
If your fellow Board members do not take the errant actors in hand, you have no choice but to resign.
The actions you described are not remotely like anything my neighborhood org does. My fellow board members know better.
speaking of “representing the organization” I was reminded recently how my neighborhood org had to create elected positions on a committee in order to STOP one volunteer from schmoozing City officials, telling them she represented our organization. We had to say to city officials “only these elected people may speak for our neighborhood.” She was a nasty piece of business. She is now dead. Our lives are easier for that. She was mentally ill but physically healthy, so the craziness went on for decades.
What's the difference between a spiritual quality and a regular one?
What's the difference between a spiritual quality and a regular one?
What is a regular one? If it not made of matter or in a material form, it is spiritual, isn't it?
Some samples from Merriam Webster:
"Honesty is a desirable quality.
Stubbornness is one of his bad qualities.
She has strong leadership qualities.
The house has many fine qualities.
His music has a primitive quality.
They offer quality at a reasonable price."
rosarugosa
10-28-20, 7:20am
My first response would have been kindness, but upon further reflection I think it is actually honesty/trustworthiness. Without trust, you don't have much. When I took a test to develop my strengths inventory in The Science of Well-Being course, honesty came out as my #1 strength, so maybe that is why I value it so highly in others.
iris lilies
10-28-20, 8:12am
My first response would have been kindness, but upon further reflection I think it is actually honesty/trustworthiness. Without trust, you don't have much. When I took a test to develop my strengths inventory in The Science of Well-Being course, honesty came out as my #1 strength, so maybe that is why I value it so highly in others.agreed.
Kindness is no good if there is no honesty behind it.
Being “ Kindly honest” or “ honestly kind” as a dominate persona would be good.
Integrity is it for me. I don’t expect perfect people. But honest mistakes or well meaning blunders are one thing, deceit, lying, manipulation, etc. is another. I re-learned this from a a nickel. I snuck one off a retail counter a while back and left it on a shelf as I walked out, but it bothered me. I couldn’t figure it out, it was .05 And left for customers. When I finally did figure it out, it was my intent, the sneaking, the deceit that make the act something Bad. Same sort of thing about forgiveness. I have 2 criteria: 1) am I still hurting from whatever and 2) what was the intent?
happystuff
10-30-20, 11:57am
When I finally did figure it out, it was my intent, the sneaking, the deceit that make the act something Bad. Same sort of thing about forgiveness. I have 2 criteria: 1) am I still hurting from whatever and 2) what was the intent?
I am learning in some Buddhism classes that "intent" and "motivation" are important factors with regards to thoughts and actions. For example, you can do something good/nice, but if the intent or motivation is for selfish reasons, it may not be as good or nice as you think.
Whenever I have volunteered for a board of directors (I have served on a few over the past decade or so), my first question is whether the board has a litigation protection policy for its members. If it doesn't, I don't join. Never. Many people have no idea what legal implications joining a board can carry, everything from having to cover payroll if cash flow dries up to getting sued for the actions of other, or even past, board members and needing to cover legal expenses. Admittedly, these are worst case, and thankfully I have not run into this with any of the boards I have served on, but that's probably because I ask the litigation policy question right away. I do know people who have had to cover payroll for an organization, though, which was a temporary, but still pretty painful, financial imposition.
I suppose I should answer the thread's main question. :|(
Trust is extremely important and also seemingly difficult to find. I'm trying to think of things - within reason, of course - worse than betrayed trust. Some of my worst experiences with people involved betrayed trust. Someone says something to you, but does something else behind your back that affects you adversely. Work environments tend to invite such behavior as some people jockey for position, power and assumed security. I have had a few intimate relationships in my past where I ultimately learned the hard way that I should have never trusted the person. These became some of the most painful experiences of my life, and at least one remains difficult to forgive even years later. So I really value trust and strive to be a trustworthy person. Sadly, it's really hard to detect the untrustworthy. Some people are masters of deception. Perhaps that's why back stabbing still seems so rampant out there?
I see kindness, or compassion if you prefer, to be more than surface manners. Think of "you have to be cruel to be kind."
rosarugosa
11-2-20, 8:50am
I see kindness, or compassion if you prefer, to be more than surface manners. Think of "you have to be cruel to be kind."
It might be just a matter of semantics, but I don't buy that there can be a component of cruelty to kindness, although I do think "tough love" can have it's place among acts of kindness. I do agree that there is more to it than surface manners.
happystuff
11-5-20, 11:34am
Kindness is no good if there is no honesty behind it.
To me, this is the point. It is not kindness if there is dishonesty. True kindness - at least for me - means being honest, ethical, etc. Someone is not being kind if they are being dishonest.
happystuff
11-5-20, 11:35am
It might be just a matter of semantics, but I don't buy that there can be a component of cruelty to kindness, although I do think "tough love" can have it's place among acts of kindness. I do agree that there is more to it than surface manners.
I agree about more than surface manners. Intention and motivation behind the actions play an important part.
iris lilies
11-5-20, 11:40am
I agree about more than surface manners. Intention and motivation behind the actions play an important part.
We all have that friend who tells us what we want to hear. And we don’t exactly trust them because that’s not honest.
happystuff
11-5-20, 11:47am
We all have that friend who tells us what we want to hear. And we don’t exactly trust them because that’s not honest.
Exactly.
To me, this is the point. It is not kindness if there is dishonesty. True kindness - at least for me - means being honest, ethical, etc. Someone is not being kind if they are being dishonest.
I don't agree with this. If you show me a picture of your child who looks like a boiled monkey, it isn't kind of me to tell you so.
I strive to be both kind and honest, but I sometimes fall short.
happystuff
11-5-20, 12:54pm
I don't agree with this. If you show me a picture of your child who looks like a boiled monkey, it isn't kind of me to tell you so.
I strive to be both kind and honest, but I sometimes fall short.
My first thought would be, what is your intention/motivation for even thinking of telling someone their child looks like a boiled monkey?
Edited to add: I still say true kindness means being honest, but your example shows that honesty does not necessarily encompass kindness. Again, for me "kindness" and "honesty" are not the same thing, but I still think true kindness includes honesty.
iris lilies
11-5-20, 1:24pm
I don't agree with this. If you show me a picture of your child who looks like a boiled monkey, it isn't kind of me to tell you so.
I strive to be both kind and honest, but I sometimes fall short.
On c’mon, this is easy. You find something nice to say about the baby that expressed your sincerity. Ooooo, freshly made baby, nice!” Or “I see he is a nice weight,” or a more honest “His hair is funny! Babies make me laugh!”
It isnt hard.
rosarugosa
11-5-20, 5:48pm
On c’mon, this is easy. You find something nice to say about the baby that expressed your sincerity. Ooooo, freshly made baby, nice!” Or “I see he is a nice weight,” or a more honest “His hair is funny! Babies make me laugh!”
It isnt hard.
Exactly! I think all babies look like boiled monkeys; so I often comment on their smiles, "Looks like such a happy baby!" FB makes it easy because I can click the like button and be done with it. Parents or grandparents are welcome to think I like their baby, but I'm really just glad their boiled monkey is making them happy.
frugal-one
11-5-20, 6:56pm
We all have that friend who tells us what we want to hear. And we don’t exactly trust them because that’s not honest.
Wishy-washy... hate that!
I think kindness, like real lovingkindness the way the Buddhists describe is absolutely an important virtue. Kindness is an attitude of compassion and sympathy, and then taking action on it. Like you see someone is sick, you send them a card. That's being kind. It's not insincere flattery. =
happystuff
11-6-20, 11:28am
I think kindness, like real lovingkindness the way the Buddhists describe is absolutely an important virtue. Kindness is an attitude of compassion and sympathy, and then taking action on it. Like you see someone is sick, you send them a card. That's being kind. It's not insincere flattery. =
+1
On c’mon, this is easy. You find something nice to say about the baby that expressed your sincerity. Ooooo, freshly made baby, nice!” Or “I see he is a nice weight,” or a more honest “His hair is funny! Babies make me laugh!”
It isnt hard.
I usually compliment their smile, their clothing, their sparkling eyes--much as I imagine you do, in such circumstances.
Exactly! I think all babies look like boiled monkeys; so I often comment on their smiles, "Looks like such a happy baby!" FB makes it easy because I can click the like button and be done with it. Parents or grandparents are welcome to think I like their baby, but I'm really just glad their boiled monkey is making them happy.
Hilarious take!
happystuff
11-6-20, 2:35pm
Hence, why the saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is so valid. :)
Hence, why the saying "beauty is in the eye of the beholder" is so valid. :)
I remember when my first son was born--of course, the whole family was so proud and happy!! I marched everyone out to the viewing window of the nursery where other parents and families were ooh-ing and ah-ing. One of the guys admiring his own baby pointed at my son and said "Look at THAT funny-looking baby!" He didn't know I was standing right behind him.
My roommate had a Caesarian section and her baby looked like a little porcelain doll. My son was large and I was small and he had 17 hours of fighting his way down the birth canal and wound up looking like a boiled monkey or at least like he had 9 rounds on the boxing mat!
JakeSilva231
11-24-20, 4:29am
It seems to me that the main principle that Jesus Christ said in life is: "So, in everything you do to people as you want them to do to you".
iris lilies
11-24-20, 1:05pm
It seems to me that the main principle that Jesus Christ said in life is: "So, in everything you do to people as you want them to do to you".
But so many people need to be schmoozed. They consider that kind. I hate being schmoozed. Dont schmooze me!
But so many people need to be schmoozed. They consider that kind. I hate being schmoozed. Dont schmooze me!
So, basically, you'd like them to greet you politely and move on (unless they had something riveting to say.) Good call.
iris lilies
11-24-20, 4:59pm
So, basically, you'd like them to greet you politely and move on (unless they had something riveting to say.) Good call.
Yes, or just get on with the info you want to deliver. Dont give a long preamble. Don’t thank me for all my past work. Dont tippy toe around shit. Just give me the damn information.
And speaking of thanks for work, I’m getting tired of the “ thanks for all you do” tacked on to every message from every volunteer organization I belong to. Just stop it people! It’s not that it’s insincere although it is ha ha Ha. Well it is sincere but it’s also repetitive. It stops being meaningful when it shows up everywhere.
It seems to me that the main principle that Jesus Christ said in life is: "So, in everything you do to people as you want them to do to you".
The problem here is that the things we would want done to us are not always the things that other people would want done to them. It’s better to do to others as they want things to be done to them - because we all have different preferences.
iris lilies
11-24-20, 5:49pm
The problem here is that the things we would want done to us are not always the things that other people would want done to them. It’s better to do to others as they want things to be done to them - because we all have different preferences.
yes, this is a more sophisticated approach to human relations.Granted, it is also harder to know what people want if you don’t know them well at all
catherine
11-24-20, 6:12pm
yes, this is a more sophisticated approach to human relations.Granted, it is also harder to know what people want if you don’t know them well at all
I think you guys are overanalyzing the Golden Rule.
I think you guys are overanalyzing the Golden Rule.So do I, they're being too specific. I think 'Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" means to be kind, to be honest, to be gracious, etc.
What I wrote is called the platinum rule, which is a common concept in business circles. It’s shown to increase employee relations and customer service scores.
iris lilies
11-24-20, 8:49pm
I think you guys are overanalyzing the Golden Rule.
I figured someone would say that because— you are right! I just wanted to complain about something.
https://www.inc.com/peter-economy/how-the-platinum-rule-trumps-the-golden-rule-every-time.html
Yes it’s more difficult to know your audience. But it’s worth it.
happystuff
11-26-20, 11:30am
What I wrote is called the platinum rule, which is a common concept in business circles. It’s shown to increase employee relations and customer service scores.
Because we should treat and have relationships with others like an employee (get paid, set hours, etc) and on a scoring system?
I think I'll stick to being kind whenever possible and trying to remember that it is always possible. :)
I am also wary of bringing business marketing principles into personal relationships. I'm not trying to sell things to my friends, nor do I want them to try and sell things to me. Nor am I trying to keep them happy while doing something they often don't have a full choice of doing. Business principles often come with ulterior motives, but sadly friendships sometimes also have them. It would be nice to fully separate out the personal from the business, but the current world has made that more difficult.
Business practices are generally predatory--not an impulse I'd like to bring into my relationships. That's my "brand," I guess. :devil:
I would have to say empathy. When we try to understand where another human is coming from, then it follows that we might be more apt to bestow on each other - kindness, consideration, respect, admiration.
I’m interested in this response - business is evil. I actually agree! But there are gems to be found everywhere. I would like to treat you the way you want to be treated. I think that works well in all relationships.
It’s not important - just thinking aloud.
Happy thanksgiving everyone!
Business is business, and I guess some people associate it with taking advantage of people or looking at them as a number. That is not at all what you were suggesting, you were saying treat people the way they want to be treated, which sounds like good manners and closely related to the Golden Rule.
I guess I try to treat them the way I want people to treat me unless they express desire for something different, as it can be confusing to try to tailor my approach--I try to be honest and pleasant when I can, and try to shut up when I can't.
Tammy, after giving it some thought, I like the Platinum version. It includes a need for empathy, consideration for alternatives to my own.
I think you guys are overanalyzing the Golden Rule.\
I agree. The Golden Rule may not be perfect in some eyes, but it's a darned good starting place. It covers a lot of territory.
I've not kept up with the entire thread so maybe it's been mentioned, but forgiveness has been valuable quality for me to work on. I'd also rate compassion and service to others highly. I could probably spend a few lifetimes working on those three things.
iris lilies
12-1-20, 9:54am
\
I agree. The Golden Rule may not be perfect in some eyes, but it's a darned good starting place. It covers a lot of territory.
I've not kept up with the entire thread so maybe it's been mentioned, but forgiveness has been valuable quality for me to work on. I'd also rate compassion and service to others highly. I could probably spend a few lifetimes working on those three things.
Forgiveness, genuine in-your-heart forgiveness, is super important. It is to the benefit of all parties.
happystuff
12-2-20, 12:45pm
The difference I see between the two rules is that the Golden Rule can be applied pretty much any time and any where, while the Platinum Rule means you need to get to know the other person in order to find out how they would like to be treated - i.e. more person-to-person engagement. (a more personal connection to generate understanding - which I DO see as a good thing!)
I don't really have the time nor the where-with-all to personally engage with every person I come in any kind of contact with, so I'll still just be nice.
Plus the fact that if you "do unto others as you would have others do unto you, that implies that you would want others to honor your own unique preferences, so you would do the same for them--honor their unique preferences.
Teacher Terry
12-2-20, 3:33pm
Kindness suffices:))
iris lilies
12-2-20, 5:55pm
Plus the fact that if you "do unto others as you would have others do unto you, that implies that you would want others to honor your own unique preferences, so you would do the same for them--honor their unique preferences.
That is true! The golden rule is perfectly fine and suffices for smooth human relations.
JakeSilva231
1-5-21, 4:58am
That is true! The golden rule is perfectly fine and suffices for smooth human relations.
Exactly, the main thing is to make sure that those around you are willing to follow it!
Exactly, the main thing is to make sure that those around you are willing to follow it!
No, I disagree. I do it because that is how I want to spend my life. If they don't, then I respond by removing myself or finding measures to protect myself. I am in charge of my life, how I think and feel. I cannot make anyone do anything that s/he is not willing to do or follow.
JakeSilva231
1-6-21, 4:26am
I agree with you, I need to look at myself. I mean, the world as a whole would change if everyone lived by this rule.
https://6thfloor.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/07/31/george-saunderss-advice-to-graduates/
I just read this commencement speech delivered by writer George Saunders, and it reminded me of our discussion about kindness. It's a beautiful speech.
GeorgeParker
2-19-21, 6:46pm
The problem with the golden rule is that too many people think it means "Do unto others as you believe you would want them to do unto you in the same situation" so they barge in and do something useless or harmful because they've misread the situation or their projecting they're own prejudices/personality onto the situation. It's like the helpful DH in another thread who decides to spare DW the work of hand weeding by spraying Roundup on everything. It's like the friend who volunteered to help me move by packing clothes and books, but while was busy elsewhere threw away everything in my house that she didn't recognize because it must leftover/broken parts from something.
Kindness is always appropriate, but if you think something beyond superficial kindness is needed, always ask "Do you need...?" or "Can I do something to help you?" No deep personal knowledge, or even shallow knowledge, is required -- just ask one simple question before you barge in.
It was a very simple but wise speech.
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