View Full Version : When Trump falls....
So, in the case that Trump loses this election, what next?
Should he be relentlessly prosecuted for his crimes? If so, which ones?
Should his minions also be lined up and made to answer for their actions?
Should we set up a Commission for Truth and Reconciliation?
Should we focus instead on marching forward into a bold and hopefully less-pandemic future?
What should we all do?
Teacher Terry
10-28-20, 1:33pm
Yes him and anyone else in the government should all be prosecuted. I will leave it to the lawyers as to decide which are actual crimes. Plus don’t forget his kids:))
If I were queen of the world, I would push the next to last option. Vote out the waxy old senators and congress people when we can and move forward with all sorts of new ideas. Wasting time on punishment is just more of the same going in circles and getting nowhere. As I often think, those of us of a certain age shouldn't be dictating how the next generations want to shape their world. We had our chance.
As an outsider, I would be more concerned about the credibility of the US honouring international agreements. If he is prosecuted to show the world that his erratic behaviour and that of his political supporters who enabled his decisions/behaviour, perhaps the US's image might be less tarnished.
ApatheticNoMore
10-28-20, 1:52pm
Not prosecuting the W administration for it's crimes had consequences though.
I'm not sure what age has to do with it, that new Supreme Court justice has many years to live and you could find people that would agree with her in their 20s and 30s if you looked hard enough and the ultimate truth is regardless of age you can ALWAYS find plenty who can BE BOUGHT for a price, see you don't really need true believers, just opportunists and their are plenty in any generation. They might not represent a majority of anyone but.
Given the exuberant promises they have made, will the Democrats be able to carve out the time for a show trial?
early morning
10-28-20, 2:40pm
I believe it's going to be difficult, if Biden wins, to NOT pursue some of the criminal behaviors of the current liar-in-chief. I don't believe we should allow reprehensible behaviors to go unchallenged or unpunished, and I think it must be made clear to racists, misogynists, and homophobic citizens that the rule of law applies to them also, that rights aren't just for white men, and that our constitution and laws are not for their benefit alone. They have the right to believe what they wish, but they do not have the right to apply their beliefs in ways that harm others. Honestly, many of the people who have crawled out from under rocks during the Trump administration believe that the left is too wishy-washy to make them behave, and they do have some evidence (Cliven Bundy, etc). I'm for reconciliation and healing, but not appeasement.
Given the exuberant promises they have made, will the Democrats be able to carve out the time for a show trial?I think if the Democrats take both houses of Congress we'll have years of political show trials, possibly to the exclusion of any other business. I think it will be much calmer in the professional judiciary outside of a few local prosecutors seeking re-election attention, they're not generally allowed to prosecute hard feelings.
iris lilies
10-28-20, 4:02pm
I don’t know what I want to happens except that I’d like to see Donald go away. Given the media’s love affair with him, I am not sure they will be able to quit him. So any criminal actions against Trump and Trumpsters will be in the news at a higher level than For other actors.
So any criminal actions against Trump and Trumpster will be in the news at a higher level than For other actors.The Trump media mania reminds me of the old song "That's Entertainment!"
I agree. There is probably a right and a wrong to things, but as a personal issue, the sooner Trump is out of sight in politics and the media the better. His mere presence seems to invite conflict and I suspect he'll be demanding attention. He has some ongoing financial legal problems that need to be resolved in the courts and should be handled as though he were any other citizen. He has inflicted some damage to the integrity of the presidency and the country, but punishment or retribution is just going to make things get uglier.
ApatheticNoMore
10-28-20, 6:51pm
I agree. There is probably a right and a wrong to things, but as a personal issue, the sooner Trump is out of sight in politics and the media the better. His mere presence seems to invite conflict and I suspect he'll be demanding attention. He has some ongoing financial legal problems that need to be resolved in the courts and should be handled as though he were any other citizen. He has inflicted some damage to the integrity of the presidency and the country, but punishment or retribution is just going to make things get uglier.
I don't see how punishment actually makes things uglier. It may or may not be the best use of time and resources, but the true believers in the Trump cult will never forgive Biden for merely winning and becoming president and defeating Trump (oh and they'll never forgive Kamala Harris for being a minority woman Democrat and being on the ticket). The Biden administration doesn't need to do more for things to be ugly, that's the unforgivable sin itself.
It was for Obama, that and being black, Obama looked "forward and not back", did it stop the birtherism etc.? And Trump pushed into politics on that very birtherism. Trump makes everything worse of course, but still ultimately we're talking Trump capitalizing on stuff that proceeds Trump by DECADES and in fact helped to lead to Trump (maybe just some weariness of the status quo among the electorate in general did too, but I don't regard people who swing back and forth in parties at every election or just don't vote or something as being any real Trump base - so yea low turnout among those who may vote Dem didn't help Clinton but that's not the people who will never forgive Biden merely for winning - it's the actual Trump base that won't).
Trump afterall reminds everyone we're still fighting the civil war, or at least the civil rights movement.
he and his minions should be deported...…….no further attention or energy wasted on them. Just my opinion.
frugal-one
11-10-20, 9:45pm
The Trump media mania reminds me of the old song "That's Entertainment!"
This is a few months old but ..... still holds true.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TogbPPyQQM
I might have said, just let him slink off into a dark corner, but I've changed my mind after the last few days of endless lawsuits, firing top people in Defense Dept and the Pentagon to install his own syncophants (why? what is he planning?), working with Barr to encourage investigation into non-existent fraud, obstructing a peaceful transition of power, and destroying many Americans' faith in the integrity and reliability of our own electoral system.
I get the feeling Trump’s enemies will miss him more than his allies.
I get the feeling Trump’s enemies will miss him more than his allies.
No. Actually we’ll be glad all the shitbags are gone. They are doing their best to blow up the ****ing country but we’re cautiously optimistic that their incompetence will render their efforts futile. But that’s not a certainty.
I get the feeling Trump’s enemies will miss him more than his allies.
Your dry comment made me think this thought. " Do you miss a throbbing toothache when it is over or simple relief and carry on with the rest of your life?"
Your dry comment made me think this thought. " Do you miss a throbbing toothache when it is over or simple relief and carry on with the rest of your life?"
I think they will fill the Trump-sized hole with new monsters. There seems to be a sense that they need the throbbing for a certain narrative to remain viable.
No. Actually we’ll be glad all the shitbags are gone. They are doing their best to blow up the ****ing country but we’re cautiously optimistic that their incompetence will render their efforts futile. But that’s not a certainty.
Clearly the trend of puerile vulgarity in politics will continue.
happystuff
11-11-20, 11:21am
Clearly the trend of puerile vulgarity in politics will continue.
You didn't seriously think it would cease, did you? I pegged you for smarter than that. ;) Vulgarity is alive and well in politics, religion, money, these forums and - unfortunately - too many other aspects of life. lol
Edited to add smilie face, as I'm teasing! :)
frugal-one
11-11-20, 5:04pm
Clearly the trend of puerile vulgarity in politics will continue.
If so, because the orange idiot got away with it. Too bad he was ever born.
If so, because the orange idiot got away with it. Too bad he was ever born.Bazinga!
Clearly the trend of puerile vulgarity in politics will continue.
True. Because the republicans have learned that acting like a-holes is an effective strategy to use when one doesn’t actually have policy objectives that are popular with a majority of voters.
True. Because the republicans have learned that acting like a-holes is an effective strategy to use when one doesn’t actually have policy objectives that are popular with a majority of voters.
I have to admire the discipline it must take to suppress one’s level of self-awareness so comprehensively as to take the stance that “we are just too good and civil and decent for this dirty business of politics”. It must be exhausting.
Clearly the trend of puerile vulgarity in politics will continue.
"Puerile vulgarity" sums Trump up. he's so far off political plumb though, that I doubt his ilk will reappear except among minor characters. I certainly hope we've seen the last of his kind.
frugal-one
11-12-20, 3:59pm
I have to admire the discipline it must take to suppress one’s level of self-awareness so comprehensively as to take the stance that “we are just too good and civil and decent for this dirty business of politics”. It must be exhausting.
Last night's news had Republican senator Ron Johnson asking people to come forward and tell him how the ballots and election in Wisconsin was done illegally ("irregularities related to mail-in and asbentee ballots"--- per Johnson in today's paper). You talk about a "witch hunt!" Even Scott Walker previously said don't bother with Wisconsin... the elections here are done properly and nothing of note will be found. The current Republican regime is beyond belief. And, like JaneV2.0, I hope this is the last we see of their kind.
Everything I've seen indicates this was among the smoothest election processes in the history of the country--mostly due to the ability for citizens to vote early and by mail, and the huge upswell in poll-workers. There haven't been any credible instances of voter fraud either (but there never were).
There haven't been any credible instances of voter fraud either (but there never were).
There are always credible instances of voter fraud, it's just that they're never significant enough to impact a national election. Locally though.....
There are always credible instances of voter fraud, it's just that they're never significant enough to impact a national election. Locally though.....
Yeah--there was that one incident of the Republican woman who seemed to be trying to vote for her dead mother, although that might be explained as a "mixup." The incidence of voter fraud that I last saw was something like .0007%--not sure if that's Washington or nationwide. But it's clearly not the problem voter suppression is.
Yeah--there was that one incident of the Republican woman who seemed to be trying to vote for her dead mother, although that might be explained as a "mixup." The incidence of voter fraud that I last saw was something like .0007%--not sure if that's Washington or nationwide. But it's clearly not the problem voter suppression is.Most claims of voter suppression stem from attempts to stop the voter fraud, especially that voter fraud that may have an impact on local or state elections. Maybe someday we should have an unbiased discussion of suppression and fraud, it may be enlightening.
JaneV2.0
11-13-20, 10:34am
Most claims of voter suppression stem from attempts to stop the voter fraud, especially that voter fraud that may have an impact on local or state elections. Maybe someday we should have an unbiased discussion of suppression and fraud, it may be enlightening.
I couldn't disagree more. First, there's little or no fraud, and second--funny how much of the suppression consists of making voting nearly impossible for voters of color, with limited polling places and draconian rules (see Native American reservations). Republicans have admitted as much:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GBAsFwPglw
What happened with the Russians in all this? They don’t seem to have put in much of an effort after all the build- up.
What happened with the Russians in all this? They don’t seem to have put in much of an effort after all the build- up.
I wonder that too; some commentator remarked there was no evidence of effective hacking. Maybe we were ready for them this time.
I wonder that too; some commentator remarked there was no evidence of effective hacking. Maybe we were ready for them this time.
Did they hack effectively last election cycle? I seem to recall their election interference was mostly limited to posting things on social media and such, but not direct interference with voting machines/counting.
iris lilies
11-13-20, 2:58pm
What happened with the Russians in all this? They don’t seem to have put in much of an effort after all the build- up.
I was never sure what side they were on anyway.
I was never sure what side they were on anyway.
Their own side.
I wonder that too; some commentator remarked there was no evidence of effective hacking. Maybe we were ready for them this time.
Or maybe a certain political party didn’t need them to explain a humiliating loss this time around.
happystuff
11-13-20, 3:26pm
Or maybe a certain political party didn’t need them to explain a humiliating loss this time around.
Or maybe a certain political party didn't get the help for another not-by-majority-vote win this time around. ;)
Russia's aim is mostly to sow chaos; they've switched mostly to boostlng QAnon, disseminating disinformation, and deploying trolls on social media. I'm guessing Putin doesn't see much benefit in propping up Trump lately.
Russia's aim is mostly to sow chaos; they've switched mostly to boostlng QAnon, disseminating disinformation, and deploying trolls on social media. I'm guessing Putin doesn't see much benefit in propping up Trump lately.
The beauty of conspiracy theories is they can be adapted to the needs of the moment.
happystuff
11-14-20, 5:01pm
The beauty of conspiracy theories is they can be adapted to the needs of the moment.
Yeah, reminds me of Trump tweets. LOL.
Yeah, reminds me of Trump tweets. LOL.
They do serve much the same purpose.
happystuff
11-14-20, 5:13pm
They do serve much the same purpose.
Yes, although most people don't realize that.
dado potato
12-9-20, 9:49pm
The Attorneys General of 17 states have joined Texas
versus PA, GA, MI, and WI
pleading to the Supreme Court of the United States
in effect to throw out the voters' ballots.
I doubt that the Supreme Court will rule for Trump over Biden, but stranger things have happened.
The 17 states joining Texas are:
Missouri
Alabama
Arkansas
Florida
Indiana
Kansas
Louisiana
Mississippi
Montana
Nebraska
North Dakota
Oklahoma
South Carolina
South Dakota
Tennessee
Utah
West Virginia
The succinctness with which the supremes shut down yesterday's attempt at moving the coup forward gives me comfort that they will likely shut this attempt down just as succintly*, or perhaps ignore it entirely. If not for the fact that apparently trump has also joined in on this particular stupidity I would expect them, if they responded at all, to simply say that texas and all those other states, simply don't have standing in this particular case.
*autocorrect doesn't like succintly (or autocorrect apparently...). I would have changed it to succintitude but autocorrect doesn't like that any better.
The Attorneys General of 17 states have joined Texas
versus PA, GA, MI, and WI
pleading to the Supreme Court of the United States
in effect to throw out the voters' ballots.
Seems like a nice way to turn this country into post-breakup Yugoslavia...
Remember all the dire predictions about how the court was going to throw the election to Trump?
As on onlooker, it simply boggles my mind that Trump should have so hypnotized and controlled the beliefs of so many people in government and the general public. All those directly involved in the election process concluded and confirmed that the election was fair and accurate. All parties were represented in the system of counting the ballots as required by law. The courts across the US have concluded that there is no credible evidence of fraud despite all the lawsuits implying unverifiable vague claims of fraud. Lawyers could lose their licences to practice if found testifying lies under oath. Truth has power.
What will it take to snap the population out of this hypnotic spell and what will it take to prevent a recurrence? Is it simply that people want to belong somewhere so choose to stay in an echo-chamber? Is social media the problem by enabling the echo-chambers? Is it fear of the future and trying to control the outcome? Is it such distrust of one's fellow citizen?
Psychiatrists and psychologists will have a great time examining this strange episode of US history for years to come. Think of the new PhD's that can now be earned in those fields.
iris lilies
12-10-20, 10:59am
As on onlooker, it simply boggles my mind that Trump should have so hypnotized and controlled the beliefs of so many people in government and the general public. All those directly involved in the election process concluded and confirmed that the election was fair and accurate. All parties were represented in the system of counting the ballots as required by law. The courts across the US have concluded that there is no credible evidence of fraud despite all the lawsuits implying unverifiable vague claims of fraud. Lawyers could lose their licences to practice if found testifying lies under oath. Truth has power.
What will it take to snap the population out of this hypnotic spell and what will it take to prevent a recurrence? Is it simply that people want to belong somewhere so choose to stay in an echo-chamber? Is social media the problem by enabling the echo-chambers? Is it fear of the future and trying to control the outcome? Is it such distrust of one's fellow citizen?
Psychiatrists and psychologists will have a great time examining this strange episode of US history for years to come. Think of the new PhD's that can now be earned in those fields.
It is not a hypnotic spell.
iris lilies
12-10-20, 11:00am
Remember all the dire predictions about how the court was going to throw the election to Trump?
...On to the next dire warning...
JaneV2.0
12-10-20, 11:22am
I don't remember ever going through anything like this--transition sabotage, innumerable frivolous lawsuits, officials promoting sedition and violence, the leader of the country asserting--in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary--that he won the election...I can't imagine thinking this is business as usual.
I suppose it's not feasible for the West Coast to secede...:help:
As on onlooker, it simply boggles my mind that Trump should have so hypnotized and controlled the beliefs of so many people in government and the general public. All those directly involved in the election process concluded and confirmed that the election was fair and accurate. All parties were represented in the system of counting the ballots as required by law. The courts across the US have concluded that there is no credible evidence of fraud despite all the lawsuits implying unverifiable vague claims of fraud. Lawyers could lose their licences to practice if found testifying lies under oath. Truth has power.
What will it take to snap the population out of this hypnotic spell and what will it take to prevent a recurrence? Is it simply that people want to belong somewhere so choose to stay in an echo-chamber? Is social media the problem by enabling the echo-chambers? Is it fear of the future and trying to control the outcome? Is it such distrust of one's fellow citizen?
Psychiatrists and psychologists will have a great time examining this strange episode of US history for years to come. Think of the new PhD's that can now be earned in those fields.
I think it’s more complicated than some Trump-as-Svengali narrative. There seem to be multiple bubbles out there that only touch when they grind against each other to generate great clouds of reductive thinking. One bubble thinks the best response to an overweening and arrogant governing caste is Trumpian chaos. Another dismisses any opposition to it’s agenda as the result of ignorance and bigotry. One flatters itself as the last bastion of rugged independence. Another flatters itself as the cognitive elite.
Neither seems capable of seeing it’s own flaws or the other’s legitimate concerns.
happystuff
12-10-20, 2:23pm
Neither seems capable of seeing it’s own flaws or the other’s legitimate concerns.
It is my opinion that this is because "compromise" seems to have been deleted as a legitimate option for most - if not all - situations... both on the political and individual levels.
Teacher Terry
12-10-20, 2:29pm
I miss the time of compromise too Happy.
I suppose it's not feasible for the West Coast to secede...:help:
WCExit.
Where do I sign?
(I suspect a vote of the residentsof my County would be about 60%+ in favor of us leaving the USA and rejoining British Columbia. We're only part of the USA because of the Germans anyways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War_(1859) )
frugal-one
12-10-20, 3:25pm
WCExit.
Where do I sign?
(I suspect a vote of the residentsof my County would be about 60%+ in favor of us leaving the USA and rejoining British Columbia. We're only part of the USA because of the Germans anyways: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pig_War_(1859) )
This is really sad. I know I used to be a very patriotic person. No longer. I would leave in a minute if able. This administration has ruined the country permanently IMO. Who would have thought even a few years ago that someone would try to convince (their and other) states to overturn the elections? The world has gone crazy.
happystuff
12-10-20, 3:34pm
The world has gone crazy.
I don't think the world so much, but rather the U.S. - which does not, in my opinion, have a good global/world view. I think many people in this country feel the U.S. is "us" and the rest of the world is "them". With climate change, global warming, world-wide pandemics... it really is time for everyone to start thinking and acting on a global level rather than a national/country level. There is no absolute isolation on this planet... we are all here together. Everything everyone or anyone does really has a global effect.
Edited to say: Yes, there are other countries behaving as above, but I'm only talking U.S. here.
ApatheticNoMore
12-10-20, 3:40pm
I become more of an advocate of well funded state government (voting for the taxes yea!), because I want to empower states, because I'm tired of our federal government, it's so dysfunctional, there seems no way to make it functional.
So yes west coast exit sounds fine to me. It would really work better if we had provinces instead of states like Canada, per my understanding, unlike states they can deficit spend (but still not create currency). Their healthcare system was created and exists on the province level per my understanding. Their covid response was also managed on the province level (though their fed gov helped with financing and ours was MIA). But our states are not really comparable to Canadian provinces.
Yesterday I was thinking about all these old people running our federal govt. I am not at all in favor of forced retirements at a certain age. But we have so many people over the age of 75 in our 3 branches of govt. Some are in their 80s.
One example of how this is problematic: They struggle to understand the internet when questioning leaders in that industry. Then they write laws about it that are not helpful.
State govts have younger people, and they are closer to their constituencies. They are more effective, from what I’ve observed in Arizona this last decade. Republican governor Brewer expanded Medicaid, for example. Another example, republican governor Ducey declined a phone call from President Trump while signing paperwork to verify our election results.
I’m not sure what the answer is, and I don’t want to be agist. But wow, some of those elderly leaders in DC can be pretty incompetent sometimes.
"I’m not sure what the answer is, and I don’t want to be agist. But wow, some of those elderly leaders in DC can be pretty incompetent sometimes."
I'm over a federal government composed exclusively of old white men; IMO we need as much diversity as we can muster--and with the vast multicultural talent pool we have, we should have no problem filling positions accordingly. It wouldn't bother me if we had a mandatory retirement at 65-70 years for federal employees.
Gosh, it bothers me. My husband agrees with you Jane. When I was in grad school, my dissertation adviser was forced to retired because of mandatory retirement at 65. What a terrible loss that was to the university.
As much as I admired Ruth Bader Ginsburg, there are many more who are either hopelessly behind the times, just phoning it in, or verging on senile. I would agree that mandatory retirement is a blunt instrument, though.
ApatheticNoMore
12-10-20, 6:41pm
Meanwhile back in the real world people worry (rightfully - the data backs it) about being obsolete to the job market after 50 and so on, statistically income goes down after 45, length of unemployment goes up after 50.
Our congress probably wants to raise the social security age (already way too high) for the rest of us who are lucky if we are employable in our 50s and 60s. Out of touch, much? Yes they are. They maybe haven't figured out that the rest of the world is not an old folks club like Congress is.
dado potato
12-10-20, 8:17pm
When I look at the list of states whose governments are joining Texas in the case versus my state and the others,
I think about what destination I would choose for our next Snow-Birding vacation. I loved visiting Savannah once before... maybe another trip to GA would be good next time.
I could buy my next 10-lb box of pecans from Texas. Or go back to the Pearson Farm in Georgia, next time I order pecans. Hmmm. Should I choose a state that is suing to throw out the votes of Wisconsinites (Texas) to be my supplier? I wish the Texas growers well, but I don't think I would give them my order, when the government of Texas has taken legal action to sue my state and others over the matter of the votes of our citizens in the recent presidential election.
Where I choose to spend my dollars for lodging and nuts may not be a big deal, but "It is what it is."
Come to the PNW; global warming is making it almost balmy! (And we have mountains and coastline!)
Come to the PNW; global warming is making it almost balmy! (And we have mountains and coastline!)
Plus the filberts of the Willamette Valley. Not quite pecans, but they are at least grown locally. I have entertained delusions of moving to the PNW as a second best place to live besides where I'm at.
The AG of Texas is known to be a kook. He has even been accused of criminal activities. How he even got elected, I don't know. The good people of Texas would like you to buy their pecans and grapefruit and not hold their kooky AG against them. It's a huge state and not everyone thinks that way.
I have entertained delusions of moving to the PNW as a second best place to live besides where I'm at.
It's quite nice!
JaneV2.0
12-11-20, 11:33am
Plus the filberts of the Willamette Valley. Not quite pecans, but they are at least grown locally. I have entertained delusions of moving to the PNW as a second best place to live besides where I'm at.
Fun fact: My surly Uncle Ben didn't grow rice, but filberts on his filbert farm not far from Portland. My old condo was set in an old filbert orchard.
It's quite nice!
Just bring lotsa money.
dado potato
12-11-20, 8:13pm
I felt relief when I learned that the Supreme Court would not hear Texas versus MI, PA, WI and GA.
I felt relief when I learned that the Supreme Court would not hear Texas versus MI, PA, WI and GA.
I do too, but boy, the texas GOP is taking the opportunity to go full wackadoodle over it.
https://www.texasgop.org/chairman-allen-wests-response-to-scotus-decision/
I do too, but boy, the texas GOP is taking the opportunity to go full wackadoodle over it.
https://www.texasgop.org/chairman-allen-wests-response-to-scotus-decision/
“The Supreme Court, in tossing the Texas lawsuit that was joined by seventeen states and 106 US congressman, have decreed that a state can take unconstitutional actions and violate its own election law. Resulting in damaging effects on other states that abide by the law, while the guilty state suffers no consequences. This decision establishes a precedent that says states can violate the US constitution and not be held accountable. This decision will have far reaching ramifications for the future of our constitutional republic. Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution.”
“The Supreme Court, in tossing the Texas lawsuit that was joined by seventeen states and 106 US congressman, have decreed that a state can take unconstitutional actions and violate its own election law. Resulting in damaging effects on other states that abide by the law, while the guilty state suffers no consequences. This decision establishes a precedent that says states can violate the US constitution and not be held accountable. This decision will have far reaching ramifications for the future of our constitutional republic. Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution.”
Is their when we all get to say ‘don’t let the door hit you...’ and then watch as the reality of ‘texit’ sinks in?
Is their when we all get to say ‘don’t let the door hit you...’ and then watch as the reality of ‘texit’ sinks in?
Well, Texas already was a republic once, so they have history behind them. And they already have the flag.
Now when Pacifica becomes a republic, or whatever the northern one is called, go for the big giant conifer in green.
JaneV2.0
12-12-20, 10:40am
Well, Texas already was a republic once, so they have history behind them. And they already have the flag.
Now when Pacifica becomes a republic, or whatever the northern one is called, go for the big giant conifer in green.
Cascadia; we already have a flag. :)
Cascadia; we already have a flag. :)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Flag_of_Cascadia.svg/1200px-Flag_of_Cascadia.svg.png
Indeed, very nice.
Although it would be very hard to sew those branches, for whoever is the Betsy Ross in the deal.
Even this morning, Trump is still off on a Tweet-bender about winning the election.
iris lilies
12-12-20, 12:17pm
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/rush-limbaugh-trump-secession-election/2020/12/10/8889397a-3b0d-11eb-bc68-96af0daae728_story.html
Apparently Rush Limbaugh has been castigated by legacy media for talking about this thing that you all are talking about, secession. So the old folks don’t know people are talking about it? Advocating it? Flying the flag for it?
Amazing that you all and Rush are in sync.
for the record, I'm not flying the flags, just thinking about sewing them.
iris lilies
12-12-20, 12:21pm
When you all leave the cesspool of flyover country behind you, moving toward a right thinking world, you Will have to revamp that flag with a stylized evergreen tree. As pointed out, it’s impossible to replicate easily.
The tree becomes something like this:
3525
I think all one color, the dark green, would be preferable.
On black, with starry skies.
dado potato
12-12-20, 1:02pm
“ Perhaps law-abiding states should bond together and form a Union of states that will abide by the constitution.”
One would think that Members of Congress will be choosing their words on this topic very carefully. Representative Pascrell has written to Speaker Pelosi, "demanding that the 126 Republicans who have endorsed a malignant lawsuit to overturn the will of the people and undermine our democracy not be seated in Congress."
The Attorney General of Pennsylvania labelled the Texas lawsuit "seditious". I believe the word was carefully chosen!
No matter how romantic our concepts of the previous secession may be, it was followed by the 14th Amendment. Section 3 of the 14th Amendment excludes from office Senators or Representatives who gave "aid or comfort to the enemies" of the United States. The Representatives previously swore an oath to defend the Constitution. Did the Representatives, in their formal support of the the Texas lawsuit, give aid or comfort to enemies of the United States? (Representative Pascrell has asked Speaker Pelosi to decide on this question.)
One would think that Members of Congress will be choosing their words on this topic very carefully. Representative Pascrell has written to Speaker Pelosi, "demanding that the 126 Republicans who have endorsed a malignant lawsuit to overturn the will of the people and undermine our democracy not be seated in Congress."
The Attorney General of Pennsylvania labelled the Texas lawsuit "seditious". I believe the word was carefully chosen!
No matter how romantic our concepts of the previous secession may be, it was followed by the 14th Amendment. Section 3 of the 14th Amendment excludes from office Senators or Representatives who gave "aid or comfort to the enemies" of the United States. The Representatives previously swore an oath to defend the Constitution. Did the Representatives, in their formal support of the the Texas lawsuit, give aid or comfort to enemies of the United States? (Representative Pascrell has asked Speaker Pelosi to decide on this question.)
Curioser and curioser.
Did the Representatives, in their formal support of the the Texas lawsuit, give aid or comfort to enemies of the United States?
That seems quite a stretch.
iris lilies
12-12-20, 1:57pm
That seems quite a stretch.
But quite an entertaining play for one upmanship in the political theater that is Washington DC.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/media/rush-limbaugh-trump-secession-election/2020/12/10/8889397a-3b0d-11eb-bc68-96af0daae728_story.html
Apparently Rush Limbaugh has been castigated by legacy media for talking about this thing that you all are talking about, secession. So the old folks don’t know people are talking about it? Advocating it? Flying the flag for it?
Amazing that you all and Rush are in sync.
I briefly watched Fox News yesterday; first time i ever heard the expression "legacy media." I guess that's what Republicans call journalism now. Better than "lamestream media," I guess
When you all leave the cesspool of flyover country behind you, moving toward a right thinking world, you Will have to revamp that flag with a stylized evergreen tree. As pointed out, it’s impossible to replicate easily.
The tree becomes something like this:
3525
I imagine computerized machine embroidery would do the trick.
mschrisgo2
12-12-20, 5:00pm
I am fervently hoping that Twitter will turn off Trumps account on January 20,
because he’s only allowed his posts now because he is the President.
I am fervently hoping that Twitter will turn off Trumps account on January 20,
because he’s only allowed his posts now because he is the President.
Wouldn't it be better to just ignore his tweets rather than pre-emptively censor people or ideas you don't like?
happystuff
12-12-20, 5:49pm
Wouldn't it be better to just ignore his tweets rather than pre-emptively censor people or ideas you don't like?
I can see not censoring him, but he should be held to the same scrutiny and consequences as "regular" people when the tweets fall into the "hate" category or breaks rules/restrictions that others must abide by.
I briefly watched Fox News yesterday; first time i ever heard the expression "legacy media." I guess that's what Republicans call journalism now. Better than "lamestream media," I guess
I thought “legacy media” just referred to traditional broadcast and print, with no particular political connotation.
iris lilies
12-12-20, 9:15pm
I thought “legacy media” just referred to traditional broadcast and print, with no particular political connotation.
Of course that’s what it means.
Of course that’s what it means.
I've always understood "legacy" to refer to old, grandfathered-in equipment that had outlived its usefulness, but we were stuck with it.
I don't see print, radio, or TV journalism in quite the same light. YMMV.
iris lilies
12-13-20, 1:50pm
I've always understood "legacy" to refer to old, grandfathered-in equipment that had outlived its usefulness, but we were stuck with it.
I don't see print, radio, or TV journalism in quite the same light. YMMV.
Well we are stuck with it aren’t we? And some of it is good old school stuff. Some of it not so much.
The differences between old line sources like Fox News and the New York Times and newer outlets like Brietbart and Vox seem to be diminishing. I don’t see the medium affecting the message much.
This country needs a solid moderate movement. The left and right have both become so extreme that neither side can carry a meaningful conversation with the other. That doesn't bode well for the country as a political entity, as we'll probably continue to see one extreme replacing another as the years go on.
I try to carry on relationships with people who have differing viewpoints from my own, but it becomes very difficult when politics come up. Most of it has reduced to name calling, cherry-picking and finger-pointing on all sides. Being somewhat in the middle myself, I find that liberals and conservatives tend to hate me equally. :D Liberals find me conservative and conservatives find me liberal. I can't win.
The middle has begun to vanish and I think we need it back more than ever. We're reaching dangerous levels of polarization.
rosarugosa
12-14-20, 6:45am
This country needs a solid moderate movement. The left and right have both become so extreme that neither side can carry a meaningful conversation with the other. That doesn't bode well for the country as a political entity, as we'll probably continue to see one extreme replacing another as the years go on.
I try to carry on relationships with people who have differing viewpoints from my own, but it becomes very difficult when politics come up. Most of it has reduced to name calling, cherry-picking and finger-pointing on all sides. Being somewhat in the middle myself, I find that liberals and conservatives tend to hate me equally. :D Liberals find me conservative and conservatives find me liberal. I can't win.
The middle has begun to vanish and I think we need it back more than ever. We're reaching dangerous levels of polarization.
I agree.
pinkytoe
12-14-20, 11:44am
ignore his tweets
The best way to get beyond something is to make it irrelevant.
I am beyond bored with stupid.
Fascinating. If the news accounts are to be believed, security measures are being taken in some locations around the country because presidential electors have been threatened.
Interesting times.
frugal-one
12-14-20, 3:10pm
Fascinating. If the news accounts are to be believed, security measures are being taken in some locations around the country because presidential electors have been threatened.
Interesting times.
Fascinating? Interesting? Disgusting is more like it. See Michigan's capitol is shut down for the safety of those working there because of "verifiable" threats. WTH is wrong with people?
Our growing fascist element heard from. I guess getting away with threatening Michigan's governor and attorney general emboldened them.
ApatheticNoMore
12-14-20, 4:35pm
Trump is of course just doing it for grift. Using money he collects to challenge "election fraud" to pay his personal debts. He owes, he owes, it's off to grift he goes. The successful con-man he's always been, selfish and reckless.
The rest of us watch as he tears more holes in what still exists of anything in this country. Hardly ever the fairest or most open elections in the world, but certainly in no need of being undermined further by the con-man. Meanwhile it breeds violent elements of true believer fools, falling on their swords or guns for a man who has never given a care for anyone but himself and his spawn (he uses them or they use him, but either way it's bad news for everyone else).
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.5 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions Inc. All rights reserved.