View Full Version : Day-After Thoughts on the Election So Far
What do you think? Who has the better chance at this point? How nasty is it going to get?
I'm disappointed in my fellow Americans. Its clear that a large number of people are ok with the nastiness, lying, bullying, incompetence, wishful thinking, blaming nature of this administration. I sort of understood the 2016 vote and its "what have you got to lose?" message. But its different now, people know what they are getting and they are not only ok with that, but excited and enthused about that. It makes me sad.
gimmethesimplelife
11-4-20, 10:40am
I more and more believe that America will end out splitting up and that this is a good thing. The divisions are just too deep and both sides are too wary and suspicious of each other. I can't see this level of rancor keeping a country faux united much longer. I just hope Tucson ends out being in the liberal split off of the former United States - and ARIZONA JUST FLIPPED BLUE so who knows? Rob
All the Trump support makes me feel like I have been transported to some other planet in the past few years. I just don't get it...
iris lilies
11-4-20, 10:59am
Perhaps the Democratic Party will learn to put up a candidate about whom we can become enthused in the face of a Trump. I say this assuming Old joe will win.
The blue wave seems to be a myth; at least up to this point. Even if Biden wins it does not seem to be a major repudiation of Trump.
Rob didn’t get his raging mobs.
Unless things really break the Democrats’ way, the Senate will remain in GOP hands. So the number of Supreme Court Justices and states seem unlikely to increase. The Durham report will probably still be heard.
Another bad year for pollsters and pundits.
It’s early yet, but I haven’t been hearing a lot of conspiracy theories featuring Russians, postmasters or groups with silly names.
Beto won’t get the credit he was hoping to get for flipping Texas.
As one writer put it, Trump got the Latino vote and Biden got the Latinx vote.
Hard to see this election as a historical turning point.
Simplemind
11-4-20, 12:25pm
There seems to be a lot of stunned silence from both sides this morning. Each went into the election certain of a landslide victory. Who are we as a people when you see such a close race between two sides that couldn't be further apart? Who the hell are we?
Teacher Terry
11-4-20, 1:18pm
I read that many people are one issue voters and vote this way on abortion and the economy. If that’s the case those of us that are intelligent and look at all the issues have trouble understanding how some are so simple minded.
dado potato
11-4-20, 1:19pm
I believe the ballots still are being counted in PA (20 electoral votes), GA (16), MI (16), NC (15), WI (10), NV (6) and AK (3).
Decided states give Biden 238 electoral votes and Trump 213. Either candidate would win with 270 or more electoral votes. By the end of today 11/4 we should know the score in GA, MI, WI and AK. By the end of 11/6 we should have a result from PA. By the end of 11/12 we should have the results from NC and NV.
There possibly may be recounts where the results are extremely close.
In the two Wisconsin counties I know best (Price and Marathon) Donald Trump won a larger percentage of the votes versus Biden in 2020 than versus Clinton in 2016. No matter how much Trump is disliked by the minority (about 36-40% in Price and Marathon Counties), the President to be sworn in January 2021 may yearn for "One nation, indivisible".
Teacher Terry
11-4-20, 1:53pm
I live in Nevada and they expect the results to be close enough tonight and done by tomorrow night.
I believe the ballots still are being counted in PA (20 electoral votes), GA (16), MI (16), NC (15), WI (10), NV (6) and AK (3).
Decided states give Biden 238 electoral votes and Trump 213. Either candidate would win with 270 or more electoral votes. By the end of today 11/4 we should know the score in GA, MI, WI and AK. By the end of 11/6 we should have a result from PA. By the end of 11/12 we should have the results from NC and NV.
There possibly may be recounts where the results are extremely close.
In the two Wisconsin counties I know best (Price and Marathon) Donald Trump won a larger percentage of the votes versus Biden in 2020 than versus Clinton in 2016. No matter how much Trump is disliked by the minority (about 36-40% in Price and Marathon Counties), the President to be sworn in January 2021 may yearn for "One nation, indivisible".
This morning in Wisconsin, I understand with almost all the votes counted, Biden is leading by about 20,000. This is way closer than the polls had indicated: they showed Biden ahead by 6-7%. The Trump people are already demanding a recount, but it’s hard to see that putting him over the top here.
frugal-one
11-4-20, 2:39pm
This morning in Wisconsin, I understand with almost all the votes counted, Biden is leading by about 20,000. This is way closer than the polls had indicated: they showed Biden ahead by 6-7%. The Trump people are already demanding a recount, but it’s hard to see that putting him over the top here.
YEAH... YEAH.... YAY!!! Come on MI.........
ApatheticNoMore
11-4-20, 2:47pm
I'm disappointed in my fellow Americans. Its clear that a large number of people are ok with the nastiness, lying, bullying, incompetence, wishful thinking, blaming nature of this administration. I sort of understood the 2016 vote and its "what have you got to lose?" message. But its different now, people know what they are getting and they are not only ok with that, but excited and enthused about that. It makes me sad.
+ 1
Things that were once impossible to fathom have become commonplace. Our sitting President went on national tv in the middle of the night and announced his plans to have the supreme court force all the states stop counting ballots immediately. What next? He sends the National Guard to burn the ballots so they can't be counted? Preposterous, right? Maybe.
there are all those votes the post office (deliberately) "lost"
But yea very right wing election in every way even if Biden wins and I dearly hope so. People don't believe a better world is possible (oh I know Biden isn't the man to strongly deliver it or anything, but the whole election). They think things have to suck and so are just resigned to it and vote for more of the suck if anything else seems more scary.
I'm disappointed in my fellow Americans. Its clear that a large number of people are ok with the nastiness, lying, bullying, incompetence, wishful thinking, blaming nature of this administration. I sort of understood the 2016 vote and its "what have you got to lose?" message. But its different now, people know what they are getting and they are not only ok with that, but excited and enthused about that. It makes me sad.
I don't get it either. Maybe the social scientist sort will offer some reason. To think that if it were not for a global pandemic, Trump might have easily won and it would not even be close. As long as the Senate remains GOP and Biden is declared winner, I picture Mitch playing the same obstructive role he played with Obama.
I more and more believe that America will end out splitting up and that this is a good thing.
I think that if you zoom in on the maps, you'll find that we all live next to one another, not neatly divided into this foolish "red/blue" model, and that there is no "split" possible that doesn't involve the political equivalent of ethnic cleansing.
I don't get it either. Maybe the social scientist sort will offer some reason.
The reason is simple. The Trump phenomenon represents a large middle finger extended to a tragically arrogant cultural left. Is it a stupid and self-destructive gesture? Most certainly. But it is real and heartfelt nonetheless.
rosarugosa
11-4-20, 4:40pm
This limbo state is what I expected, although certainly not what I was hoping for. I'm almost afraid to even dare hope for a Biden win. I'm disappointed in my fellow Americans as well, Herbgeek. Trump is the archetype of sleaze and it boggles my mind that anyone wants him as the leader of our country.
I look forward to the day when we have a president who understands the difference between voting and tabulating votes. Whether through stupidity of malice it’s not good. It amazes me that 40-some percent of the country approve of that type of behavior enough to vote for it a second time.
dado potato
11-4-20, 4:46pm
YEAH... YEAH.... YAY!!! Come on MI.........
MI and NV voting for Biden would give him 270 Electoral College votes. Last time I looked, Biden was leading in both states. As the afternoon sun sinks lower in the sky, and the Sundowner color shift affects a certain number of brains, I expect loud curses. But at this point it sure looks like Biden will be the winner.
I think that if you zoom in on the maps, you'll find that we all live next to one another, not neatly divided into this foolish "red/blue" model, and that there is no "split" possible that doesn't involve the political equivalent of ethnic cleansing.
Exactly. It would be cities against rural areas. Not something that can happen without a horrific outcome.
Exactly. It would be cities against rural areas. Not something that can happen without a horrific outcome.
And when you zoom in on the rural areas, you'll still find neighbors who have different political beliefs living next door to one another. Even in my very progressive rural area, we'd have to "cleanse" 35-45% of the population to achieve a Bold New Future.
I read that many people are one issue voters and vote this way on abortion and the economy. If that’s the case those of us that are intelligent and look at all the issues have trouble understanding how some are so simple minded.
I've long suspected that the constant refrain of 'if the ignorant rubes would only forget that every life is precious and deserves the opportunity to thrive, and that their chances for upward mobility require a thriving and robust economy and listened to their enlightened betters' ultimately helps Republicans who get really tired of hearing it. They then vote against their enlightened betters wishes, even it it means voting for someone like Trump. I theorize it gives them the double bonus of flipping off those who consider them deplorable, bitter clingers and when those votes result in a victory, it makes their enlightened overseers miserable for years. But that's just my opinion.
The reason is simple. The Trump phenomenon represents a large middle finger extended to a tragically arrogant cultural left. Is it a stupid and self-destructive gesture? Most certainly. But it is real and heartfelt nonetheless.
I think that must be a lot of it, especially with Trump's enthusiastic base. I have to think too, that he is a very good con man, and there is a segment of the population that is susceptible to an authoritarian figure spinning controversy.
Teacher Terry
11-4-20, 7:58pm
Most people accept the vote and new president even when their candidate loses. Trump has been a exception for many obvious reasons.
It's second amendment, dislike of government red tape, tax policy, economic issues, abortion, and various other issues. It is not just a revolt against the elite.
I'm just curious why people voted for him for a second term, after what we've seen in the first four years.
I'm just curious why people voted for him for a second term, after what we've seen in the first four years.Well, Stephen Breyer is 82.
frugal-one
11-4-20, 9:05pm
Well, Stephen Breyer is 82.
So? What does that have to do with anything?
So? What does that have to do with anything?
Lots
Well, Stephen Breyer is 82.
So? What does that have to do with anything?
Ask Mitch "8 months before the election is too close to seat a new justice, unless it's a republican president because I'm an ugly hypocrite" McConnell.
Most people accept the vote and new president even when their candidate loses. Trump has been a exception for many obvious reasons.
Yes, his current sad, and likely to fail, legal attempts to disenfranchise voters in various states ought to give even the most grizzled republican pause, but it won't because they love party more than country.
Teacher Terry
11-4-20, 11:09pm
Before Trump no one never wondered why someone voted for a presidential candidate because they were all decent choices.
Before Trump no one never wondered why someone voted for a presidential candidate because they were all decent choices.
It does seem like "moral character" is off the requirements for candidate.
It does seem like "moral character" is off the requirements for candidate.
At least for a certain segment of the populace. Personally if a left wing Trump style lying, gritting creep was running I wouldn’t vote for them.
Teacher Terry
11-5-20, 12:22am
If Trump had been a Democrat I wouldn’t have voted for him. But I was raised to vote for the person not party.
I'm curious how many states is he going to try to suppress the votes. I guess i get it. He's too stoopid to get the difference between people voting and votes being counted, but dang. His supporters are just as stoopid. So many trumpie people are shocked that trump said to them "don't vote by mail" and now "all the mail votes are being counted and none of them are for me". Well duh. What a f'ing loser.
OMG, a friend just nailed it.
"let me put it in a way that Republicans can understand... A vote's life begins when it's put in the evelope. It's against god's will to kill it before it can be counted."
ToomuchStuff
11-5-20, 5:21am
There seems to be a lot of stunned silence , etcfrom both sides this morning. Each went into the election certain of a landslide victory. Who are we as a people when you see such a close race between two sides that couldn't be further apart? Who the hell are we?
I have a friend that pretty much went off today, as he expects now, all the police departments will be unfunded, wild rioting in the streets, etc. etc. etc. (a Republican version of Rob)
Between that, and the above, it made me think of the old saying....
What kind of a Mickey Mouse (operation, country, company) are you running?
One sides sees that as an insult.
The other, says thank you?! with a question in their voice, as that is a successful company that owns a lot.
I was so hopeful that one or the other would concede and we could be through with the drama. Trump has to make a circus out of everything he does.
Before Trump no one never wondered why someone voted for a presidential candidate because they were all decent choices.
Not since the last time a Republican was President, anyway.
iris lilies
11-5-20, 10:39am
Not since the last time a Republican was President, anyway.
Right. GW Bush was a stupid ignorant monkey if I remember correctly the characterizations on this board. His grades at Yale were a point of conversation until it was revealed that opponent John Kerry’s grades were equivalent if not lower.
Right. GW Bush was a stupid ignorant monkey if I remember correctly the characterizations on this board. His grades at Yale were a point of conversation until it was revealed that opponent John Kerry’s grades were equivalent if not lower.
He was that era’s Hitler benchmark. People claimed they were moving to Canada (which must have alarmed the Canadians), and declared they could never again be friends with his knuckle-dragging supporters. Dan Rather put a period on his career by publishing “fake but accurate” documents about his military service.
Remember the frenzied period after Bush v. Gore? There’s little new about the present day. And some day if President Rubio or Cruz or Haley are sworn in, the hive will be buzzing on cue about “the existential threat to our democracy”.
iris lilies
11-5-20, 11:22am
He was that era’s Hitler benchmark. People claimed they were moving to Canada (which must have alarmed the Canadians), and declared they could never again be friends with his knuckle-dragging supporters. Dan Rather put a period on his career by publishing “fake but accurate” documents about his military service.
Remember the frenzied period after Bush v. Gore? There’s little new about the present day. And some day if President Rubio or Cruz or Haley are sworn in, the hive will be buzzing on cue about “the existential threat to our democracy”.
Fortunately, the Canadians have become accustomed to the empty promises to flee to Canada by now.
Not since the last time a Republican was President, anyway.Ha, that's the most accurate statement I've seen here in years. lol
It's funny when people act as if Trump is the first person to trigger their derangement syndrome.
ApatheticNoMore
11-5-20, 1:47pm
So Bush was so wonderful, why don't you ask an Iraqi, or right they died horrible deaths (and disfigurement with depleted uranium etc.), so they aren't around to discuss it. The Iraq war was a crime.
My belief on it is perfectly clear: it is very hard to say who is the worst president on foreign policy, ask the Vietnamese, ask those killed by the atom bomb in Japan, ask an Iraqi. But overall DOMESTIC policy, Trump is pretty much taking the cake, though there were certainly horrible policies that effected sections of the citizenry if you go back far enough (like native Americans). So as soon as the analytical distinction between policy directly affecting u.s. citizens (domestic policy) and that affecting foreign people (foreign policy) is drawn one can see why people condemn Trump. The guns pointed inward is a shock. But true it is only one focus, an Iraqi might see it differently.
I have a hard time with that concept of "derangement syndrome." He showed us who he was when he commented to Billy Bush about assaulting women, when he mocked the disabled reporter, and when he urged football players at his rallies to beat up peaceful protestors. He has been consistent, and we have known what he stands for for a long time now.
ApatheticNoMore
11-5-20, 2:02pm
I have a hard time with that concept of "derangement syndrome.
it's a pure mindless though-stopping propaganda term. If one is angry that one's leaders are garbage and/or critiques them for it, well no it doesn't actually mean one has a psychological disorder.
(p.s. since when did making up one's own DSMV and pretending it had any validity at all become such a thing)
rosarugosa
11-5-20, 6:15pm
Hey Iris! Do you know this guy?
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/wilbur-french-bulldog-mayor-rabbit-hash-224408809.html
frugal-one
11-5-20, 6:54pm
Not since the last time a Republican was President, anyway.
I voted for the first George Bush... not the son. So you are wrong.
frugal-one
11-5-20, 6:55pm
Lots
Guess I don't get it.
ApatheticNoMore
11-5-20, 7:03pm
The thing about Trump that he generates not derangement but outrage fatigue, yea I may have had my criticisms of W, and hey Obama too, but they don't seem to matter, I'm outrage fatigued. I mean how it is I keep having to calibrate my expectations lower, you can never be too cynical.
Guess I don't get it.
OK, I'll explain it. Stephen Breyer is the oldest Supreme Court Justice currently serving and is also one of the most consistently liberal members of the court. When the question was asked (paraphrased) "Why would anyone vote for Donald Trump", I think a reasonable answer is that Stephen Breyer is 82 years old, implying that there may be another opportunity to nominate a justice soon. There seems to be a trend over the past 20 or 30 years for Democratic and Republican presidents to nominate judges they think most in line with their party's principles, hoping they'll bring a little activism to the bench, so one reason to vote for any President is their potential to add jurists with an ideology similar to your own.
OK, I'll explain it. Stephen Breyer is the oldest Supreme Court Justice currently serving and is also one of the most consistently liberal members of the court. When the question was asked (paraphrased) "Why would anyone vote for Donald Trump", I think a reasonable answer is that Stephen Breyer is 82 years old, implying that there may be another opportunity to nominate a justice soon. There seems to be a trend over the past 20 or 30 years for Democratic and Republican presidents to nominate judges they think most in line with their party's principles, hoping they'll bring a little activism to the bench, so one reason to vote for any President is their potential to add jurists with an ideology similar to your own.
Come on Alan, 82 is not old. An 82 year old can live forever if you just force everyone to wear masks forever so they don't get certain germs. And we're all entitled to live forever. Only cancer, heart disease or strokes should fell anyone this age. Infectious diseases are not allowed. If someone old dies of an infectious disease it must be someone else's fault, or the government's fault.
ApatheticNoMore
11-5-20, 8:48pm
What age is old so we can cull people. The answer is 42. People have had what kids they are going to, not much biological purpose in living beyond that.
iris lilies
11-5-20, 10:04pm
Hey Iris! Do you know this guy?
https://www.yahoo.com/huffpost/wilbur-french-bulldog-mayor-rabbit-hash-224408809.html
Haha no, do not know that little beast.
gimmethesimplelife
11-6-20, 9:14am
I think it's a good idea to remember that Biden's path to victory is more likely and soon this nation''s flirtation with the extreme dark side will be over. My neighborhood is keeping calm - we have - mostly - faith that light will prevail and celebrations will take place. Rob
this nation''s flirtation with the extreme dark side will be over.
No. You are mistaken. Half the country embraced this man, even knowing all the evil that was done. More people voted for Trump this time than last time (in actual numbers, not talking percentages). That's not going away anytime soon.
No. You are mistaken. Half the country embraced this man, even knowing all the evil that was done. More people voted for Trump this time than last time (in actual numbers, not talking percentages). That's not going away anytime soon.
I certainly agree with you that 2020 has not proven to be revolutionary. If you view the GOP as the forces of darkness, you have to reckon with the fact that they appear to have retained control of the Senate and increased their representation in the House. They have also defeated a number of expensive efforts to flip state legislatures, which is particularly important in redistricting years.
I think Trump is more effect than cause. I also think the left is very unclear on the cause. They feel more comfortable believing their opposition are simply ignorant, hateful dupes than trying to understand why so many millions reject their agenda.
iris lilies
11-6-20, 10:42am
I certainly agree with you that 2020 has not proven to be revolutionary. If you view the GOP as the forces of darkness, you have to reckon with the fact that they appear to have retained control of the Senate and increased their representation in the House. They have also defeated a number of expensive efforts to flip state legislatures, which is particularly important in redistricting years.
I think Trump is more effect than cause. I also think the left is very unclear on the cause. They feel more comfortable believing their opposition are simply ignorant, hateful dupes than trying to understand why so many millions reject their agenda.
I love it we can settle in for the next four years in stasis. Republican Senate, opposite side in the White House. Lovely! That’s the way I like my life to be and I’m not being sarcastic here. Check and checkmate in D.C. Of course the White House can always rule by regulation so that is not a happy thought.
Teacher Terry
11-6-20, 1:28pm
My son was saying that trump has really exposed how easily some people are led so it would be much worse if we had a smart, evil, charismatic leader that could actually become a dictator. Luckily for us Trump was just evil.
My son was saying that trump has really exposed how easily some people are led
Yes.. it is truly scary--you only have to look at Nazi Germany to see an example with horrific consequences.
I always go back to the astounding example of Jane Elliott. I watched it when it was initially broadcast in 1992 and my mouth dropped open. In 30 minutes she was able to convince Oprah's studio audience that brown-eyed people were superior to blue-eyed people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ebPoSMULI5U
I love it we can settle in for the next four years in stasis. Republican Senate, opposite side in the White House. Lovely! That’s the way I like my life to be and I’m not being sarcastic here. Check and checkmate in D.C. Of course the White House can always rule by regulation so that is not a happy thought.
We will see a lot of Executive Order and regulatory fiat actions, as well as accusations of obstructionism. Some will end up in the courts.
The House will initiate a lot of aspirational bills with little chance of passage in the hope of showing voters all the good things the GOP is thwarting.
Trump’s improved showing among voters of color may encourage more GOP outreach to minorities.
A debate has already begun in the Democratic Party between moderates who question the electoral value of “defund the police”, unabashed socialism and identity politics and the more radical elements. A House leadership fight would be an early indication of that.
I've long wondered why apparently level-headed people like the Germans allowed Hitler and his ilk to take power so easily. Incremental moves, fiery "rallies," "othering" groups of people...But I never thought I'd be here when it happened to us. I'm appalled by how many seem to want to be led by someone as patently unfit as Trump.
I've been mostly listening to BBC Radio (Radio 5 Live and Radio 4) for election coverage. One commentator mentioned this morning that the Dems keep thinking of blacks or Latinos as monolithic groups, which hurt them. I know Dems who are just flabbergasted that both black and Latino vote counts were higher for Trump this time. Some of that would be from higher turnout this time.
Other points made:
*Biden actually made a comment during the campaign that if you're black, you HAVE to vote for him.
*Latinos come from many different countries. Their experiences won't be the same. Some families have been in the US for a long time, and so being further away from immigration (as in generations), immigration is not as important, or even on their radar, as it is for more recent immigrants. Mention of communism hits a big nerve with the Cubans community in the Miami area.
I've long wondered why apparently level-headed people like the Germans allowed Hitler and his ilk to take power so easily. Incremental moves, fiery "rallies," "othering" groups of people...But I never thought I'd be here when it happened to us. I'm appalled by how many seem to want to be led by someone as patently unfit as Trump.
What better way to “other” people than to liken them to Nazis?
I like Al Jazeera and Reuters, along with other sources.
I love it we can settle in for the next four years in stasis. Republican Senate, opposite side in the White House. Lovely! That’s the way I like my life to be and I’m not being sarcastic here. Check and checkmate in D.C. Of course the White House can always rule by regulation so that is not a happy thought.
The senate is not yet settled. And won't be until January it appears since both GA seats appear to be headed towards runoff.
The senate is not yet settled. And won't be until January it appears since both GA seats appear to be headed towards runoff.
Now that will be high drama. You have to feel for all those county clerks trying to count votes with the whole world peering over their shoulders.
rosarugosa
11-6-20, 7:06pm
Tradd: A black friend of mine (Trump supporter) was extremely indignant over the Biden remark that you referenced. I think it was somewhat intended as a witticism, but it did not go over well. Some folks just cannot do humor. In a similar vein, imagine what a short book The Wit and Wisdom of Donald Trump would be? :D
rosarugosa
11-6-20, 7:13pm
What better way to “other” people than to liken them to Nazis?
I think you make a very good point. I know and love some very nice people who are Trump supporters, and it's both too simplistic and inaccurate to paint them all as Nazis and racists.
A nurse friend who was head of the cardiac ward cleverly commented, "They all look the same in a hospital gown".
frugal-one
11-6-20, 7:27pm
OK, I'll explain it. Stephen Breyer is the oldest Supreme Court Justice currently serving and is also one of the most consistently liberal members of the court. When the question was asked (paraphrased) "Why would anyone vote for Donald Trump", I think a reasonable answer is that Stephen Breyer is 82 years old, implying that there may be another opportunity to nominate a justice soon. There seems to be a trend over the past 20 or 30 years for Democratic and Republican presidents to nominate judges they think most in line with their party's principles, hoping they'll bring a little activism to the bench, so one reason to vote for any President is their potential to add jurists with an ideology similar to your own.
That seems a far fetched reason to me. Already the court is packed by conservatives. 6-3 is over the top.
frugal-one
11-6-20, 7:28pm
No. You are mistaken. Half the country embraced this man, even knowing all the evil that was done. More people voted for Trump this time than last time (in actual numbers, not talking percentages). That's not going away anytime soon.
Sure doesn't say much for our country does it?
frugal-one
11-6-20, 7:42pm
Now that will be high drama. You have to feel for all those county clerks trying to count votes with the whole world peering over their shoulders.
Yeah, and whose fault is that?
ApatheticNoMore
11-6-20, 8:04pm
I think you make a very good point. I know and love some very nice people who are Trump supporters, and it's both too simplistic and inaccurate to paint them all as Nazis and racists.
But then there were probably plenty of nice people who were Nazis back in the day (if you call yourself a Nazi in 2020, I'm not going to say you are a nice person), and plenty of otherwise nice people now and in the past who who are racist.
iris lilies
11-6-20, 8:07pm
Yeah, and whose fault is that?
Those who value freedom and democracy?
Is there something wrongvwith providing transparancy for these important votes?
Am I the only one who remembers the year 2000 when we still didn’t know was president at Thanksgiving time? I remember that distinctly because we traveled down to Texas to visit my mother over that holiday and we went through Austin. We stopped at the governor’s mansion and saw all of the national news crews hanging around GW and Laura Bush. It was an exciting time.
That seems a far fetched reason to me. Already the court is packed by conservatives. 6-3 is over the top.The court may contain more jurists nominated by Republicans but based upon several of their records I'd have a hard time believing their potential conservative ideologies got in the way of justice. Maybe a President Harris will have better luck when she increases the number of jurists to 12 or 15 and does a mass nomination of judges who've promised to decide cases in the way Democrats demand.
Am I the only one who remembers the year 2000 when we still didn’t know was president at Thanksgiving time? We left the country for two weeks in Europe the weekend before that election, it was the only time we've ever voted by mail. We thought for sure it would all be over by the time we returned, but it wasn't. I seem to recall at least a week or two of hanging chads and other related foolishness after we returned, followed by 8 years of the same hateful rhetoric from Democrats we've enjoyed these past 4.
We left the country for two weeks in Europe the weekend before that election, it was the only time we've ever voted by mail. We thought for sure it would all be over by the time we returned, but it wasn't. I seem to recall at least a week or two of hanging chads and other related foolishness after we returned, followed by 8 years of the same hateful rhetoric from Democrats we've enjoyed these past 4.
I remember those days. The fake brooks brothers protest eventually followed by the only vote that mattered. 5-4 on party lines installing W as president.
At least this time we’re actually getting a full vote count. The sad part about the current situation is that we have a president, a ****ING PRESIDENT, without a shred of proof trying hard to sow doubt on the election process. Thankfully it’s not working but the damage he’s doing to this country is much bigger than all the republican Pollyannas are willing to see and admit. Anyone who wants confirmation just needs to go read the comments on pretty much any news article about any aspect of the vote counting.
frugal-one
11-7-20, 4:49am
What better way to “other” people than to liken them to Nazis?
The correlation is there.
frugal-one
11-7-20, 4:55am
Those who value freedom and democracy?
Is there something wrongvwith providing transparancy for these important votes?
Am I the only one who remembers the year 2000 when we still didn’t know was president at Thanksgiving time? I remember that distinctly because we traveled down to Texas to visit my mother over that holiday and we went through Austin. We stopped at the governor’s mansion and saw all of the national news crews hanging around GW and Laura Bush. It was an exciting time.
There were watchers of both parties.... ridiculous to have more people insisting they need to be there. trump put that stupid idea into his base’s heads just to sow more division.... as is his intent.
frugal-one
11-7-20, 4:58am
The court may contain more jurists nominated by Republicans but based upon several of their records I'd have a hard time believing their potential conservative ideologies got in the way of justice. Maybe a President Harris will have better luck when she increases the number of jurists to 12 or 15 and does a mass nomination of judges who've promised to decide cases in the way Democrats demand.
That is because you are a conservative. You have a tendency to look the other way (or bury your head in the sand) when you don’t want to see or face something.
Your inference of president Harris is folly. Albeit, if she should become president, it is an improvement of what we have now. IMO there should be, at least, a comparable number of judges from both parties to have a fair assessment of the issues.
IMO there should be, at least, a comparable number of judges from both parties to have a fair assessment of the issues.That's the problem with our tendency to politicize the Supreme Court. Their decisions should be based upon a non-biased interpretation of the law and the constitution rather than a governing philosophy. It's a bad idea to try and 'balance' the court using our ideological preferences.
That's the problem with our tendency to politicize the Supreme Court. Their decisions should be based upon a non-biased interpretation of the law and the constitution rather than a governing philosophy. It's a bad idea to try and 'balance' the court using our ideological preferences.
Does Mitch McConnell not try to ensure that conservative justice/court appointments only as his goal. Why?
Does Mitch McConnell not try to ensure that conservative justice/court appointments only as his goal. Why?Mitch McConnell doesn't nominate anyone to the judiciary but does currently oversee the Senate's 'Advise and Consent' function along with the Chairman of the Judiciary Committee. It used to be a fairly straightforward process which required bi-partisan support due to the rules requiring a 60 vote majority for confirmation of those nominated to the federal judiciary and other executive branch appointments. This changed in 2013 when the then Democratic Majority Leader, Harry Reid, changed the Senate rules to only require a simple majority (51 votes) which made it easier for one party to confirm judicial nominees and other appointments without bi-partisan support. I think that was a bad move but find it interesting to watch Democrats today protest Republicans taking advantage of something they did for their own benefit.
When the Democrats changed the rules to make it easier to make partisan appointments it was called the 'Nuclear Option' by Republicans. I think it was short sighted for Democrats to expose themselves to the same radioactive fallout they imposed on the Republicans.
Alan, I agree that the 51 votes is ridiculous and dangerous. It's why we are so divided. If the Senate had to have 60 votes, the nominees would be less "radical" and perhaps less inclined to "owe" one party or the other. We're in a mess and I am afraid we are too far gone to recover.
frugal-one
11-7-20, 11:23am
That's the problem with our tendency to politicize the Supreme Court. Their decisions should be based upon a non-biased interpretation of the law and the constitution rather than a governing philosophy. It's a bad idea to try and 'balance' the court using our ideological preferences.
I believe EVERYONE has biases whether they realize it or not.
Why was it imperative for trump to get Barrett in during an election instead of waiting for the newly elected President to nominate their choice? Why was Garland not allowed to be sworn in? This was politicizing the Supreme Court to the extreme! You are talking out the side of your mouth.
I believe EVERYONE has biases whether they realize it or not.
Why was it imperative for trump to get Barrett in during an election instead of waiting for the newly elected President to nominate their choice? Why was Garland not allowed to be sworn in? This was politicizing the Supreme Court to the extreme! You are talking out the side of your mouth.It is a President's duty to nominate replacements when an opening comes up and it is the Senate's duty to fulfill their 'Advise and Consent' function. I'm not aware of any time limits on that function although I do wish the Republicans had not refused to consider Garland in a timely manner. It wasn't that Garland was not allowed to be sworn in as if a simple nomination was the only requirement, it was that the confirmation process did not take place, although I'm not aware of any requirement for it to be completed.
If I was to be overly concerned about any of this it would be in the way the Senate has been politicized since ratification of the 17th Amendment. George Washington once told Thomas Jefferson that the Senate was meant to 'cool' the passions of the House and Executive branch in the same way that hot coffee may be transferred from a cup into a saucer before sipping. I think the direct election of Senators took away the saucer.
The correlation is there.
Only in the minds of people who can convince themselves or be convinced that sixty or seventy million of their countrymen are Nazis, and see no further than that.
frugal-one
11-9-20, 4:01am
[QUOTE=LDAHL;366929]Only in the minds of people who can convince themselves or be convinced that sixty or seventy million of their countrymen are Nazis, and see no further than that.[/QUOTE
I was mainly referring to the dictator wanna be..... that, thankfully, is being displaced.
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