Why we are divided and one way to approach it

[Tammy]

I found this article quite informative and helpful. While the writer is liberal and clearly on that one side, I find her sociopolitical analysis enlightening and fair. These insights can help us all move forward in our various relationships.

https://grist.org/ask-umbra/help-the-2020-election-broke-my-family/

[razz]

I found this article quite informative and helpful. While the writer is liberal and clearly on that one side, I find her sociopolitical analysis enlightening and fair. These insights can help us all move forward in our various relationships.

https://grist.org/ask-umbra/help-the-2020-election-broke-my-family/

That article does explain what I was just starting to grasp about the fundamental difference between the US and Canada in discussions on this SLF site. I kept stepping back to an 'agree to disagree' state of thought. Interesting!

[Teacher Terry]

Some people post on Facebook that if you voted for Trump you should unfriend them because they cannot agree to disagree on racism. I usually point out that many people vote on one issue only and it’s shortsighted to dump friends over this.

[catherine]

I agree that she made a very interesting case for the two distinct cultures, with one of them actually being a foundational set of values and the other being more counter-cultural to the "rugged individualism" paradigm.

I do relate to the "WASP-ish idea of polite socializing" as she put it. For that reason--the fact that these opposing values are polar opposites of each other--I see no point in arguing with my friends, and I see no point in writing them off, either. I don't think I will succeed in coming up with the one brilliant insight that will make them say, "Oh, you know what, catherine? Thank you for opening my eyes! I'm changing my party affiliation to Democrat!" My friends tend to be decent people, so I don't think their support of Trump is going to brand them in my my eyes with a scarlet letter.

[pinkytoe]

I was listening to an interview with Robert Putnam (he wrote Bowling Alone) who has a new book called The Upswing. He used a data program to see how often the words "I,me and my" have been used in all media through the decades and they have escalated "bigly" in the recent past and into the present. We have moved from a collective mindset to a self interested one - what's in it for me and mine...the other is evil? I haven't read the book but he posits that we can turn it around. Back to a more philanthropic, compassionate society which is hard to even imagine right now.

[happystuff]

Interesting article - thanks for posting.

[iris lilies]

I found this article quite informative and helpful. While the writer is liberal and clearly on that one side, I find her sociopolitical analysis enlightening and fair. These insights can help us all move forward in our various relationships.

https://grist.org/ask-umbra/help-the-2020-election-broke-my-family/

I disagree with more than one premise in this article, so I don’t find it enlightning.

[LDAHL]

I disagree with more than one premise in this article, so I don’t find it enlightning.

There seems to be a rash of pieces like this around this time every year. Maybe because of the holidays. There was one at the CNN site with a wonderfully passive-aggressive title: “You Chose Trump Over Me: Was it Worth It?”

Personally, I think if you’re trapped in such a solipsistic bubble that you can’t tolerate it if someone doesn’t care about what you care about in exactly the way you do, then you’re the one with the problem. In that case, banishing them from your life is a bigger favor to them than to you. If you can’t love the sinner while hating the sin, you’re damning yourself to at best a dull circle of acquaintances.

[Alan]

There seems to be a rash of pieces like this around this time every year. Maybe because of the holidays. There was one at the CNN site with a wonderfully passive-aggressive title: “You Chose Trump Over Me: Was it Worth It?”

Personally, I think if you’re trapped in such a solipsistic bubble that you can’t tolerate it if someone doesn’t care about what you care about in exactly the way you do, then you’re the one with the problem. In that case, banishing them from your life is a bigger favor to them than to you. If you can’t love the sinner while hating the sin, you’re damning yourself to at best a dull circle of acquaintances.
The truth of that seems so obvious to me, I'm always surprised that so many don't get it.

[bae]

If you can’t love the sinner while hating the sin, you’re damning yourself to at best a dull circle of acquaintances.

I have relatives who believe truly horrid things, and who are not afraid to bring up those things at the holiday dinner table. I'm not talking about obscure differences of opinion over soybean tariffs, I'm talking about issues involving basic human rights and dignity.

I don't find reaching out to them productive at this point, or spending time with them of any utility.

[iris lilies]

I have relatives who believe truly horrid things, and who are not afraid to bring up those things at the holiday dinner table. I'm not talking about obscure differences of opinion over soybean tariffs, I'm talking about issues involving basic human rights and dignity.

I don't find reaching out to them productive at this point, or spending time with them of any utility.

But that just sounds like rudeness to me, people,who have to spout off about whatever. Rudeness of any stripe is tiresome and who wants to hang out with them.

would you completely shun them if they were kind and polite to you and your guests before, during, and after the holiday dinner? I mean, seeing them just a couple,of times a year, would you partake in that?

[Tybee]

But that just sounds like rudeness to me, people,who have to spout off about whatever. Rudeness of any stripe is tiresome and who wants to hang out with them.

would you completely shun them if they were kind and polite to you and your guests before, during, and after the holiday dinner? I mean, seeing them just a couple,of times a year, would you partake in that?

I have been around a couple of people that I can think of specifically who were very polite and pleasant and well spoken. One was a child molester and one had attacked her son with a pair of scissors.

I couldn't do it--there was a feeling of complete physical revulsion around them. They literally made my skin crawl.

[razz]

There seems to be a rash of pieces like this around this time every year. Maybe because of the holidays. There was one at the CNN site with a wonderfully passive-aggressive title: “You Chose Trump Over Me: Was it Worth It?”

Personally, I think if you’re trapped in such a solipsistic bubble that you can’t tolerate it if someone doesn’t care about what you care about in exactly the way you do, then you’re the one with the problem. In that case, banishing them from your life is a bigger favor to them than to you. If you can’t love the sinner while hating the sin, you’re damning yourself to at best a dull circle of acquaintances.

Well, I didn't get that take on it at all. The article struck that there are two viewpoints, different but understandable. I didn't get the next step that you took that it means excluding those of differing points of view. Some have done this obviously but that is their choice. Do I agree with that choice? No, my world is so much more than any politicians and their shenanigans.

[LDAHL]

I don’t disagree that an obnoxious jerk is an obnoxious jerk, whether the subject is politics, religion or baseball. But I think it takes silly to a whole new level when you can’t live with the fact that someone voted a particular way.

[jp1]

Voting a particular way is one thing. There are plenty of republicans who claim to have voted for trump despite things like brown baby jails and family separation policies, sowing doubt about the legitimacy of an election and the other 542 horrific things he's done/is doing. But there are also quite a few who openly are in favor of those things. People can call me judgy if they want but, yeah, I tend to judge someone to be of lousy character if they approve of those things. Why would I want to celebrate thanksgiving, or anything else, with them?

[JaneV2.0]

I have relatives who believe truly horrid things, and who are not afraid to bring up those things at the holiday dinner table. I'm not talking about obscure differences of opinion over soybean tariffs, I'm talking about issues involving basic human rights and dignity.

I don't find reaching out to them productive at this point, or spending time with them of any utility.

That would be me, but fortunately I don't know any people like that at the moment.

ETA: jp1--exactly. I suppose I could grit my teeth and socialize with someone who was merely obsessed with tax cuts, but the bulk of Trump's policies are completely repugnant to me--and they have real-world consequences that affect real people.

[iris lilies]

I have been around a couple of people that I can think of specifically who were very polite and pleasant and well spoken. One was a child molester and one had attacked her son with a pair of scissors.

I couldn't do it--there was a feeling of complete physical revulsion around them. They literally made my skin crawl.

We have had convicted child molester over for dinner. That was after he got out of jail, of course.

The other convicted child molester we know and had over for neighbor gatherings including meals was doing the deeds at the time of the parties, but we didn’t know.

They lived across the alley from each other.