View Full Version : Opposing viewpoints
I read about a FB group (Wives of the deplorables) started by some women who are grappling with the opposing views of their Trump supporting partners. I am now dealing with something similar as DH seems to be moving towards the dark side. I noticed it after the lockdowns and him spending much more time on the internet. As an example, he has convinced himself that the virus is man-made and that the tests are manipulated to show positives. He gets upset when I try to explain to him that we can all find "evidence" to support whatever we decide to believe. Mostly I say I don't know what the heck is going on out there with all of this but I don't think it's all some great conspiracy. I am concerned at this point about his mental health (and mine too) if I have to listen to his rants anymore. For now, we just stay in our separate spaces most of the day. Is there anyone else dealing with this?
I work with a bunch of Trump fans who are convinced of voter fraud and that the Georgia recount is the start of things turning around so he can stay in power. It doesn't bother me because I know it's not true. I am similarly not bothered by people who hold religious beliefs I find fanciful.
Some people you can't explain things to because they are not receptive and you have to try to find common ground on other topics.
If he starts on a rant can you go on a walk or something?
iris lilies
11-13-20, 7:12pm
I am glad that my Trump voting spouse takes the
virus seriously. He is free to think whatever he wants to think as long as he doesn’t endanger me or others.
Teacher Terry
11-13-20, 11:35pm
Fortunately my husband didn’t support Trump this time and he takes the virus seriously. I would agree not to discuss it but that won’t help with the virus denial.
I work with a bunch of Trump fans who are convinced of voter fraud and that the Georgia recount is the start of things turning around so he can stay in power.
I guess these coworkers aren't very good at math? At this point Georgia doesn't matter. Or for that matter Pennsylvania. Arizona and Nevada were all that Biden needed to overthrow the fat corrupt a-hole.
catherine
11-14-20, 9:55am
Even my Trump-loving husband is talking to him through the TV saying, "Just give it up, man! You lost!"
It feels like the air is out of Trump's balloon. He's AWOL on the job. His colleagues in the White House are fading away. The dragon has turned into a little salamander. I can't imagine the emotional pain he's going through, having to call himself a loser.
As for the virus, DH has always been very fearful of COVID. He's said "I know I can die of a lot of things [referring to all his bad habits], but I don't want to die from this!" We have told my DS-the one who practically lives here--that following his trip to Nashville he MUST quarantine for 2 weeks before we see him. And that directive is coming from DH.
iris lilies
11-14-20, 10:11am
Catherine, I’m glad your husband is taking the virus seriously because it probably would knock him on his ass.
I do have to ask, what happened to the BIL? Where Did BIL land? If you tell me then I’ll give you an update on DH’s family farm situation. They were in court last month. It’s not pretty.
As much as some people would like to deny it, which might serve as a coping mechanism of some sort, the virus is real, awful and one of the nastiest things that the current generations have had to deal with. Sadly, denial and defiance just make things worse, as biology doesn't listen to politically motivated gripes. But many people remain susceptible to "hearing what they want to hear," so any prominent figure proclaiming that it's not real or a fraud will inevitably attract some followers. People are often their own worst enemies, especially when they can't accept that reality isn't always what they want it to be.
The original post sounds like an incredibly difficult situation. The current political landscape offers very little room for compromise or mutual understanding, so dealing with it in a relationship sounds pretty horrible. I hope that something works out. My wife and I agree politically so we don't have this issue, but I can't imagine what I would do if it sprouted up suddenly.
iris lilies
11-14-20, 1:31pm
As much as some people would like to deny it, which might serve as a coping mechanism of some sort, the virus is real, awful and one of the nastiest things that the current generations have had to deal with. Sadly, denial and defiance just make things worse, as biology doesn't listen to politically motivated gripes. But many people remain susceptible to "hearing what they want to hear," so any prominent figure proclaiming that it's not real or a fraud will inevitably attract some followers. People are often their own worst enemies, especially when they can't accept that reality isn't always what they want it to be.
The original post sounds like an incredibly difficult situation. The current political landscape offers very little room for compromise or mutual understanding, so dealing with it in a relationship sounds pretty horrible. I hope that something works out. My wife and I agree politically so we don't have this issue, but I can't imagine what I would do if it sprouted up suddenly.
well this is a perfect topic where, when I think about who to vilify for their thoughts ��, I divide points of view into those that are reasonable and those that are crank. There are points of view that are reasonable that are not mine. Yes! In my world that is possible, a reasonable opinion that I don’t share.
So for example, I think a reasonable point of view is grave concern about what lockdowns are doing to our society in areas of education, healthcare, employment, economy, and mental health. Expressing that view as a dominant concern seems reasonable to me.
On the flipside, expressing grave concern about the virus completely as a health issue is reasonable to me too. Because it *IS*a health issue.
These are fringe opinions:
*China purposely spread this into the world,
*The virus will disappear when Biden is elected/ media conspiracy to get Biden elected
*Government of any size controlling our behavior in any way for the health of the populace is wrong
I don’t know anyone who espouses the crank opinions as their sole opinion they are 100% invested in. I doubt that any of you do either. I think in the world of discussion, the “other side quote is demonized by oversimplifying their point of view.
i’d also like to add that regardless of what someone thinks about the virus, one can still live with a partner who treats his own health casually. It’s entirely possible because I’ve heard about it that when a partner goes out and about in normal business even though he knows it’s a serious health problem.
I honestly think it is too much time spent on the internet and the fact that DH has always been easily persuaded on many topics. He doesn't like Trump but like so many angry white males feels like his world has been turned upside down I guess. Even though I'd like to plead my case, I am learning to just leave the room and say "you're probably right" to avoid conflict on the topic of politics. But it makes me so sad to know he feels that way.
Teacher Terry
11-14-20, 2:03pm
IL, I mostly agree with what you said except I wouldn’t want to live with someone that wasn’t taking any virus precautions.
iris lilies
11-14-20, 2:09pm
IL, I mostly agree with what you said except I wouldn’t want to live with someone that wasn’t taking any virus precautions.
Well of course I wouldn’t “want” to either. In my real world since we have two houses I probably wouldn’t have to either.
ApatheticNoMore
11-14-20, 2:44pm
It sounds horrible. No I'm with a Sander's supporter, not a Trump supporter, so glad. I wonder what makes the conspiracy theorists tick, I mean in a few cases just age onset dementia maybe, well not much anyone can do about that, but assuming their brain is otherwise functional. Young people who get into whatever I might understand, they lack years of trying to make some sense of the world, but those who have been around the block a few times already ... maybe they never thought much about issues before and thus are like young people in that regard? Everyone gets influenced by media etc., it's a risk, but by no means does everyone go fully down the rabbit hole.
If you wanted to "deprogram" well I might try to find some other shared activity to do together, maybe reading books together so you had something else to think about, but even taking walks might do some good?
Some liberals may have alienated many [angry?] white males and others with identity politics taken to extremes which are also outright ridiculous to many. I'm no fan. But it's a grand canyon between that and the virus positives are fake, but I suppose some can be led there. Most white women also voted for Trump :\
catherine
11-14-20, 2:51pm
Catherine, I’m glad your husband is taking the virus seriously because it probably would knock him on his ass.
I do have to ask, what happened to the BIL? Where Did BIL land? If you tell me then I’ll give you an update on DH’s family farm situation. They were in court last month. It’s not pretty.
So, the last time I saw BIL was during my DD's wedding weekend. I hadn't seen him since he left for San Diego. I felt bad because I didn't get a chance to really have a good conversation with him. But he's still acting like BIL. He worked all summer at a golf course in New Jersey. When he came from San Diego he got a room at a Days Inn. I figured that would be a temporary arrangement. I never heard from him all summer long--now and then I'd send a text: "How's it going?" and he'd say "fine".
At the wedding he told me he's STILL in the Days Inn!!! He pays $2200 a month to live in one room. WHY he didn't look for some kind of a better situation I don't know.. but then I do know. Someone would have had to walk him by the hand to a better place.
I texted him a couple of weeks ago asking him what he's doing this winter and he never answered me. Kind of strange. But I don't feel like he really had a good time at the wedding. I feel he's really feeling distant from us at this point.
As much as I'm glad he's not crying on our doorstep, I feel bad that we don't talk at all.. he's really a funny guy (sense-of-humor-wise) and kind of fun to talk to... and I hope he's doing OK.
frugal-one
11-14-20, 2:57pm
well this is a perfect topic where, when I think about who to vilify for their thoughts ��, I divide points of view into those that are reasonable and those that are crank. There are points of view that are reasonable that are not mine. Yes! In my world that is possible, a reasonable opinion that I don’t share.
So for example, I think a reasonable point of view is grave concern about what lockdowns are doing to our society in areas of education, healthcare, employment, economy, and mental health. Expressing that view as a dominant concern seems reasonable to me.
On the flipside, expressing grave concern about the virus completely as a health issue is reasonable to me too. Because it *IS*a health issue.
These are fringe opinions:
*China purposely spread this into the world,
*The virus will disappear when Biden is elected/ media conspiracy to get Biden elected
*Government of any size controlling our behavior in any way for the health of the populace is wrong
I don’t know anyone who espouses the crank opinions as their sole opinion they are 100% invested in. I doubt that any of you do either. I think in the world of discussion, the “other side quote is demonized by oversimplifying their point of view.
i’d also like to add that regardless of what someone thinks about the virus, one can still live with a partner who treats his own health casually. It’s entirely possible because I’ve heard about it that when a partner goes out and about in normal business even though he knows it’s a serious health problem.
I think it is fine to see both sides but at some point you need to take a stand on what matters more. Wishy-washy people are not appreciated. I, personally, would rather a person tell me what they think. I get rid of wishy-washy people in my life. Based on experience, they are not "true" friends.
frugal-one
11-14-20, 2:59pm
It sounds horrible. No I'm with a Sander's supporter, not a Trump supporter, so glad. I wonder what makes the conspiracy theorists tick, I mean in a few cases just age onset dementia maybe, well not much anyone can do about that, but assuming their brain is otherwise functional. Young people who get into whatever I might understand, they lack years of trying to make some sense of the world, but those who have been around the block a few times already ... maybe they never thought much about issues before and thus are like young people in that regard? Everyone gets influenced by media etc., it's a risk, but by no means does everyone go fully down the rabbit hole.
If you wanted to "deprogram" well I might try to find some other shared activity to do together, maybe reading books together so you had something else to think about, but even taking walks might do some good?
Some liberals may have alienated many [angry?] white males and others with identity politics taken to extremes which are also outright ridiculous to many. I'm no fan. But it's a grand canyon between that and the virus positives are fake, but I suppose some can be led there. Most white women also voted for Trump :\
Mostly uneducated white woman.
iris lilies
11-14-20, 3:11pm
Mostly uneducated white woman.
As I’ve said many times here, three white women I know are as much/more educated and have a higher IQ than I do are Trump supporters. Actually four, as I think about it.
They are fairly close friends in terms of who I’ve seen socially in the past year.
iris lilies
11-14-20, 3:17pm
I think it is fine to see both sides but at some point you need to take a stand on what matters more. Wishy-washy people are not appreciated. I, personally, would rather a person tell me what they think. I get rid of wishy-washy people in my life. Based on experience, they are not "true" friends.
I think your “take a stand” looks a whole lot like my “black-and-white thinking.” There are very few things in life that are not nuanced. The Covid lifestyle has dozens of choices that are somewhere on the continuum of Covid safety.
iris lilies
11-14-20, 5:41pm
So, the last time I saw BIL was during my DD's wedding weekend. I hadn't seen him since he left for San Diego. I felt bad because I didn't get a chance to really have a good conversation with him. But he's still acting like BIL. He worked all summer at a golf course in New Jersey. When he came from San Diego he got a room at a Days Inn. I figured that would be a temporary arrangement. I never heard from him all summer long--now and then I'd send a text: "How's it going?" and he'd say "fine".
At the wedding he told me he's STILL in the Days Inn!!! He pays $2200 a month to live in one room. WHY he didn't look for some kind of a better situation I don't know.. but then I do know. Someone would have had to walk him by the hand to a better place.
I texted him a couple of weeks ago asking him what he's doing this winter and he never answered me. Kind of strange. But I don't feel like he really had a good time at the wedding. I feel he's really feeling distant from us at this point.
As much as I'm glad he's not crying on our doorstep, I feel bad that we don't talk at all.. he's really a funny guy (sense-of-humor-wise) and kind of fun to talk to... and I hope he's doing OK.
Ok my turn: DH’s sister will not sign off on any plan of action for their father’s ( now their) farm because she feels hurt, screwed over, left out, etc.
At one time her siblings were going to buy her out because that’s what she wanted but they were unable to agree on a price. She wants a high price they offer a lower price. Her price comes from a generic valuation of county farmland that she gets on the Internet, 18 months old. Their price comes recent appraisals by two qualified Farm appraisers.
Sending her the written appraisals doesn’t change her mind.
So since that seems to be impossible they started movement to include her in the business, the family farm. She took siblings to court because she wants answers to questions about the estate, still unsettled due to her not signing anything.
Even though she already got answers, she’s paying an attorney to take them to court. So when they went to court she asked her list of questions she got the same answers under oath that she got six months prior.
It will drag on many more months and will cost the estate attorney fees and will cost her attorney fees and that won’t get her anything but whatever. These things have to play out in their own time.
In one case, a case of a $600 purchase, she has legitimate gripe. That is $600 against a $2 million estate. They’ve already easily spent $600 on attorney fee.
I’m starting to think that everyone should sell all assets at a ripe old age and place the proceeds in separate trusts for each child, with the option of using cash from each trust for any bills during their last few years.
Teacher Terry
11-14-20, 5:55pm
That’s sad IL to ruin relationships with siblings over money. Ugh!!
A friend's young daughter's co-worker told her she had better enjoy decorated Christmas trees now, because when President-elect Biden gets into office, he's going to abolish Christmas. Do people really believe this kind of thing?
Do people really believe this kind of thing?
I would think not, this sounds like a combination of kidding and gullibility.
I’m starting to think that everyone should sell all assets at a ripe old age and place the proceeds in separate trusts for each child, with the option of using cash from each trust for any bills during their last few years.
What a cool idea!
iris lilies
11-16-20, 12:22pm
What a cool idea!
I agree that the oldsters shouldn’t have the expectation that their heirs carry-on the physical property forever, but try telling that to an oldster. And I don’t even mean for significant assets like this family farm, I mean for all of the moms out there who want to leave their children a piece of property, their family home. “Mom’s house” inherited by a gang of children creates discord or even havoc. And generates business for attorneys.
There is a wonderful TV show made in Israel called Shtisel. It is a family drama. They treated this exact topic realistically and in a moving way. No matter how old you are, it hurts when mommy loves your brother better. It airs on
Netflix thru December 15.
No offense, IL, but I don't know if I need that kind of Shtisel right now.
iris lilies
11-16-20, 12:39pm
No offense, IL, but I don't know if I need that kind of Shtisel right now.
haha good one!
and umm, I have not spilled beans about my father in law’s wishes about who he wanted to get the most stuff (but that did not go forth due to Reasons) and I have to say, the siblings minus one are handling it nicely.
catherine
11-16-20, 1:06pm
There is a wonderful TV show made in Israel called Shtisel. It is a family drama. They treated this exact topic realistically and in a moving way. No matter how old you are, it hurts when mommy loves your brother better. It airs on
Netflix thru December 15.
This is not a serious problem in my family (yet) with regards to what DH and I dole out for the kids, but we do get wind of feelings now and then. I know that at least 2 of my kids don't like us renting our family home to our son. Just yesterday my daughter was asking (nicely)--so you're not covering your mortgage with their rent, right? (Subtext: You're giving them a couple of hundred free and clear every month, right?). And my musician son will say "Oh, and X__ went to __ University, and Y__'s a lawyer." (Subtext: You paid for their education, but I didn't go to college so why don't I get money to pursue my music?).
I feel I've done the best I can and will continue to do the best I can to make things as fair as possible but it's not easy because you're dealing not just with money in dollar amounts but with what these gifts symbolize.
I do worry about what will happen when DH and I are both gone with regards to our new family home in VT. My musician son who is unmarried spends a ton of time up here, loves it with a passion, and he was the one who pushed us to put an offer on it. The others love it but they have families and are not quite as emotionally involved. So, what happens to the house then? Do we split it among all the kids? Do we give the son who loves it right of refusal to sell?
IL, I think you've really hit on a real issue when it comes to estates. Food for thought.
Teacher Terry
11-16-20, 1:10pm
A good friend of mine had a father that had a nice home on a Wisconsin lake. He left it to his 6 kids. 30 years later they still own it. For many years they rented it to school teachers for cheaper rent with the provision they had to vacate for the month of July. The siblings would all come to visit and see each other for how ever long they could. Now my friend lives in it in retirement. They have had zero issues. This is probably rare.
I have set it up that everything get split equally, I hope it is clear as I have explained it to family. I have very few items of any value, by choice. Sell my house and divide the proceeds of the sale and any remaining assets. Anything not wanted can go to the dumpster.
iris lilies
11-16-20, 1:53pm
... So, what happens to the house then? Do we split it among all the kids? Do we give the son who loves it right of refusal to sell?
IL, I think you've really hit on a real issue when it comes to estates. Food for thought.
Your answers are here in these last several posts.
You tie a lot of emotion to pieces of real estate, me thinks, especially when those parcels represent significant amounts of money vis a vis your total assets. Just sayin’.
catherine
11-16-20, 2:02pm
You tie a lot of emotion to pieces of real estate, me thinks, especially when those parcels represent significant amounts of money vis a vis your total assets. Just sayin’.
Yes, I do. I guess it comes through. :). It even comes through in my favorite books, i.e., House of Sand and Fog for instance. Hmm... I don't know why, exactly. I'm going to have to think about that.
iris lilies
11-16-20, 2:09pm
A good friend of mine had a father that had a nice home on a Wisconsin lake. He left it to his 6 kids. 30 years later they still own it. For many years they rented it to school teachers for cheaper rent with the provision they had to vacate for the month of July. The siblings would all come to visit and see each other for how ever long they could. Now my friend lives in it in retirement. They have had zero issues. This is probably rare.
There ARE hurt feelings and exasperations within that family about the family lake house, you just dont hear about them. That doesnt mean the siblings in general are not congenial about it, tho.
There is a pretty funny thread in recent weeks over on the MMM site about a family lake house, renovation of same, who owns it/who has use of it and when, rules of use, who is angriest, and who is not speaking to whom over it.
rosarugosa
11-16-20, 2:14pm
Yes, I do. I guess it comes through. :). It even comes through in my favorite books, i.e., House of Sand and Fog for instance. Hmm... I don't know why, exactly. I'm going to have to think about that.
And another one: "Tara! Home. I'll go home. And I'll think of some way to get him back. After all... tomorrow is another day."
catherine
11-16-20, 2:20pm
There ARE hurt feelings and exasperations within that family about the family lake house, you just dont hear about them. That doesnt mean the siblings in general are not congenial about it, tho.
There is a pretty funny thread in recent weeks over on the MMM site about a family lake house, renovation of same, who owns it/who has use of it and when, rules of use, who is angriest, and who is not speaking to whom over it.
Maybe my own feelings about my houses came from my experience at the beach house in CT. I was so upset with my mother who sold it after my aunt died. DH and I had actually tried to scrape together money to buy it, but we came up short. (It sold for $44,000--another missed real estate opportunity in my life--at least from a financial POV).
I've often thought, however, that I am SO glad we never bought it. It would have gone from being my retreat, my oasis, to being my responsibility. Knowing now how my life was to proceed, what if it were foreclosed upon? I can imagine a gazillion fights that might have taken place with DH on the same porch where my aunt served blueberries and cream on linen tablecloths on the front porch overlooking the Sound. My life would have sullied my memories of my childhood there.
So the house is only the tangible expression of the temporal lives lived inside.
Teacher Terry
11-16-20, 2:51pm
No the siblings are all very close although they live all over the country. Sadly one died right after retiring a few years ago. They agreed initially to buy out anyone that didn’t want to participate. They maintain the house but no remodeling upgrades as it doesn’t matter for their use. They can all afford it and all the kids and grandchildren enjoy the summer reunion. They lost their mom young and have always been close. When I lived in Wisconsin I would be invited by his dad and it was fun.
DH and I have been talking about buying his mother's house as a stepping stone to get back "home." It is an hour away from the small town we want to move to. It needs work which we would be willing to do before reselling. The housing market is so tight that we can't find a house to buy so this would allow us a place to land and make it easier to look locally rather than being out of state. Only problem is that when his mother moved to assisted living, his brother "rented" it to one of his daughters for half market value and with all utilities paid. It seemed like a good temporary option at the time but it is dragging on now for two years. I can see how it would be a sticky wicket considering inheritance issues down the road and in effect, having to kick his daughter out. She is in her 30s, single and is a waitress so not sure how she would survive economically otherwise. The house was supposed to be available to all family members when they visited from out of state but no one wants to be there with her occupying the house. Not sure how to proceed as the sibs aren't close.
My sister in law and her 2 siblings continued to co-own, rent by the week, maintain, and vacation together at the family beach house after their parents deaths. This lasted for about 20 years.
They just sold it. The 3 sisters didn’t have too much conflict over it. It’s their young adult kids who were upset with the sale - they wanted to keep the free place to vacation at the beach.
This is not a serious problem in my family (yet) with regards to what DH and I dole out for the kids, but we do get wind of feelings now and then. I know that at least 2 of my kids don't like us renting our family home to our son. Just yesterday my daughter was asking (nicely)--so you're not covering your mortgage with their rent, right? (Subtext: You're giving them a couple of hundred free and clear every month, right?). And my musician son will say "Oh, and X__ went to __ University, and Y__'s a lawyer." (Subtext: You paid for their education, but I didn't go to college so why don't I get money to pursue my music?).
I feel I've done the best I can and will continue to do the best I can to make things as fair as possible but it's not easy because you're dealing not just with money in dollar amounts but with what these gifts symbolize.
I do worry about what will happen when DH and I are both gone with regards to our new family home in VT. My musician son who is unmarried spends a ton of time up here, loves it with a passion, and he was the one who pushed us to put an offer on it. The others love it but they have families and are not quite as emotionally involved. So, what happens to the house then? Do we split it among all the kids? Do we give the son who loves it right of refusal to sell?
IL, I think you've really hit on a real issue when it comes to estates. Food for thought.
A lot of people disagree on how to do this, and say it is impossible to be fair, but did you spend a certain amount of money for the other kids on college, and could musician son get more of a share of inheritance of house to reflect that? So for example, Mary wants to live her house to Tom, Dick, and Harry, her three sons, but Tom and Dick got 50,000 for college and Harry got nothing. Her house is worth 200,000. so when she dies, Harry inherits 50% and Tom and Dick inherit 25% each? Then maybe Harry can buy out Tom and Dick's share and keep the house?
Or will this just invite angry chaos for all of them, and taint Mary's last years on earth.
We've had some of this in our family, and it's not pleasant.
DH and I have been talking about buying his mother's house as a stepping stone to get back "home." It is an hour away from the small town we want to move to. It needs work which we would be willing to do before reselling. The housing market is so tight that we can't find a house to buy so this would allow us a place to land and make it easier to look locally rather than being out of state. Only problem is that when his mother moved to assisted living, his brother "rented" it to one of his daughters for half market value and with all utilities paid. It seemed like a good temporary option at the time but it is dragging on now for two years. I can see how it would be a sticky wicket considering inheritance issues down the road and in effect, having to kick his daughter out. She is in her 30s, single and is a waitress so not sure how she would survive economically otherwise. The house was supposed to be available to all family members when they visited from out of state but no one wants to be there with her occupying the house. Not sure how to proceed as the sibs aren't close.
I am going to weigh in on this one--I would not want to buy the mom's house because of the niece living in it. Too complicated and fraught and I would not want to do the work on it and then have it not my house when it was sold.
iris lilies
11-16-20, 8:57pm
It is dastardly hard to keep things “even” or “ fair” when it comes to parental money, especially if you are dealing out tangibles not cash
Fortunately with my sibling, our mother bent over backwards to do the “fair” thing. I remember my mother giving my brother some property and I think she out and out gave him their version of “the lake house*.” It was a long time ago and I was out doing my own adult life thing, so I cant remember details. And then, being a good mother she felt guilty and offered to buy me property there as well. My reaction was oh hell no keep me as far away from that Nowheresville as possible. So,she gave me cash! Nice.
Years later they got rid of that place because they were past the stage of wanting to drive to an a half hours to go to a weekend place.
On the topic of advanced education she remarked more than once that she paid so much more for my brother than for me. Thinking back about it I really do not think that’s true. I think that was just mom math, but whatever, even if true it didnt bother me. I paid for a few years of college but that didnt kill me and was actually good for me.
* It was a house, of sorts. It was by a lake, sort of.
I'm so thankful that my sister and I didn't have to go through the whole "he/she got more than I did" craziness. Our parents helped us both with college costs. We'd both gotten some scholarship money. She lived at home and had some rent assistance from them for the last two years when she didn't live at home. I went to school far away so our parents spent more on housing/food for me in college but it all worked out roughly equal. By the time dad died all his assets were easy to liquidate except his 12 year old/20,000 mile car. I took the car and got a smaller portion of the financial assets.
My mom, on the other hand, was one of eight kids and the only asset with financial value when their mother died was the house she lived in. Being in nowhereville Kansas in today's dollars it was worth maybe $100k. The youngest sibling, who'd not been given the chance/support to go to college as had several of his older siblings, nor any other financial assistance from their parents, spent the last 14 years of my grandma's life living in her basement with his young family and taking care of her. She was diabetic and blind so she needed someone to cook for her/drive her 80 miles each way to all her medical appointments/etc. My uncle and his wife did all this. After grandma died my mom and 3 of her siblings gave their brother their shares of grandma's house to thank him for all he'd done for their mother. The other three siblings insisted that he buy out their shares so he got a loan from the local bank to do so. I only heard this story 20 years later and when mom asked me to guess who the three were I could do so easily because the rift between the five and the three siblings never really healed. A lifetime of vaguely pissed off family relations all over $12,500 per person.
Random aside, fast forward to today and uncle is the only surviving sibling and he and his wife still live in that same house. Although I've talked to them on the phone from time to time I haven't been to visit since I was in college 30+ years ago. I can only imagine the trip down memory lane it would be for me to actually walk into that house today. So many happy memories...
ApatheticNoMore
11-17-20, 12:50am
I think I've gotten screwed over by parental money, ok I have, and it's a sore spot (a kick in the gut at the time), but mostly I don't really dwell on it, because there is really very little I can do, it is what it is. I may OR may not ever inherit anything, so all I can do is thank my grandparents for leaving me a very small amount, because maybe that's what I get, it was a help on buying my first couple used cars, surviving my first unemployment. I mean my parents could have made life easy for me in many ways, they were in a position to to a degree, but that's not how it all played out.
I like giving money to grandchildren better, I have to say. I have these little brokerage accounts for each grandchild and I love watching them grow. I hope someday they can use it for a small downpayment on a house. (I do NOT want them to use it for college, haha.) There is more time for it to grow to something, and you are not bailing them out, but rather trying to help set them up a little in life, so they might have more options.
One of the coolest things ever was when my son cashed in his savings bonds for college--they were purchased by my elderly grandmother and great-aunt when he was born, and I think it was about 1000 dollars, and it meant so much to both of us to think of these very old retired school teachers working since the Depression and thinking to buy bonds for the grandbabies when they were born, and then that child being able to use it for college, as they had both gone to teacher's college at Suwanee in about 1915. We were both kind of in awe that their hard work and thoughtfulness, and their stewardship of resources for the future generations.
Wow. So many stories of family rifts over stupid money. It's sad. Unfortunately, there always seems to be someone somewhere who puts money before their own relations. And family ties often come with tight knots, so it seems.
On long term financial planning, which is always a fantastic thing to do, make sure to keep up with tax and inheritance laws. My wife's grandmother kept money for her in a trust for years, but she didn't keep up with the stipulations of the trust, which resulted in a pretty substantial loss on withdrawal by the time my wife even knew about it. Her grandmother, had she still been living, would have been heartbroken.
iris lilies
3-26-21, 12:47pm
An update of sorts on DH’s family inheritance, being purposely vague about details:
The judge ruled against DH’s team of siblings. You might think this is bad, but I was pleased because it means more assets in DH’s pocket. Seldom does the phrase “the judge ruled against us” mean “I will end up with more.”
It is a curious thing. The dead dad gave stuff worth low 5 figures to one of DH’s siblings many years ago. This took place more than ten years before his death.
One sibling expects the entire estate to be divided exactly in equitable portions including these gifted assets, and took the executors to court over this issue.
The judge did not respect the dead dad’s gifting and judge said the gifts really belongs to all siblings. Whoah.
catherine
3-26-21, 12:54pm
An update of sorts on DH’s family inheritance, being purposely vague about details:
The judge ruled against DH’s team of siblings. You might think this is bad, but I was pleased because it means more assets in DH’s pocket. Seldom does the phrase “the judge ruled against us” mean “I will end up with more.”
It is a curious thing. The dead dad gave stuff worth low 5 figures to one of DH’s siblings many years ago. This took place more than ten years before his death.
One sibling expects the entire estate to be divided exactly in equitable portions including these gifted assets, and took the executors to court over this issue.
The judge did not respect the dead dad’s gifting and judge said the gifts really belongs to all siblings. Whoah.
Curious.. what are the learnings for aging parents? If you give a gift prior to dying should you document whether or not it should be considered part of the estate?
iris lilies
3-26-21, 12:56pm
Curious.. what are the learnings for aging parents? If you give a gift prior to dying should you document whether or not it should be considered part of the estate?
Yes, That’s what I get out of this experience that if a parent gives substantial assets to one sibling, that parent had better document it in some legal way. But I say this not having any idea of what laws were being interpreted by this judge and why.
Another perk for having an only child:)
Another perk for having an only child:)
Or whatever is given to one should be given to the other/s or given to none at all.
There was a huge rift in the family over my grandmother's estate; it literally tore the family apart.
There was not a hint of discord when my parents died. I figure I got what I got and my siblings evidently felt the same. I can't imagine a protracted battle over someone else's stuff.
iris lilies
3-27-21, 10:28am
There was a huge rift in the family over my grandmother's estate; it literally tore the family apart.
There was not a hint of discord when my parents died. I figure I got what I got and my siblings evidently felt the same. I can't imagine a protracted battle over someone else's stuff.
I didn’t expect DH’s siblings to have discord. But there is and has been an outlier who sees only “unfair” treatment. The other siblings want to “do what dad wanted” which isn’t entirely equitable when it comes to disbursing assets. And yet, curiously, the group is ignoring ...something which I won’t reveal, too much detail, but documents dad’s later intentions that pretty much screws most of them.
The old man made it more complicated than it needs to be. Their mother who died first would have made it straightforward by selling everything and dividing the money equally.
I didn’t expect DH’s siblings to have discord. But there is and has been an outlier who sees only “unfair” treatment. The other siblings want to “do what dad wanted” which isn’t entirely equitable when it comes to disbursing assets. And yet, curiously, the group is ignoring ...something which I won’t reveal, too much detail, but documents dad’s later intentions that pretty much screws most of them.
The old man made it more complicated than it needs to be. Their mother who died first would have made it straightforward by selling everything and dividing the money equally.
I think you are being wisely cryptic, so it's a little hard to tell what is happening, but I did want to weigh in with respect to what you are saying and what Jane said about not imagining how people can fight over other people's stuff.
Were it that simple! I think part of the problem lies in how the law and how our culture (whatever culture that is) sees estates--so in many cultures, there are set expectations of what children need to do to take care of parents at end of life. There are also set expectations about what happens to family property--see all Victorian literature about primogeniture, estates, entailments, etc.
However, these old English ways are not our modern American ways, even if the cultural baggage has been inherited, as it has in family. In modern American families, so expectations and viewpoints are wildly different. So one sibling thinks a parent's estate is "their inheritance", even prior to their death. It kind of sounds like the judge is in that school, which really, really surprises me, unless your fil was mentally incompetent at the end. And 10 years prior? My goodness! Another sibling thinks it's all his until the last breath (that is the way I tend to think, which is like Jane thinks, I think.) They also think it is okay for the parent to give their stuff to whomever they want to, as it is theirs, and not an entailed estate.
I think, from what I am seeing of probate court, it's kind of the Wild West out there.
iris lilies
3-27-21, 12:40pm
I think perhaps there is not clear and compelling evidence that dead Father in law gave the gift to one sibling. That must be operating here, otherwise I can’t see why the judge would act the way he did.
With so many older adults unwilling to face and plan for after their demise, so many younger family unwilling to accept that what the parents own is not theirs, ie., the kids, automatically by default; add in the human manipulations over money in general plus recriminations, regrets for past behaviour and retribution for the past, it seems a miracle when all unfolds in harmony.
Agree 100% Razz. Where we used to live, there was this great billboard:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ec/10/63/ec1063e6c1cf93e8d8366baa5b9a1dd8.jpg
We remind ourselves of that daily.
Simplemind
3-27-21, 3:22pm
Tammy that is exactly what I did for my dad. He was in memory care at the end but I was able to start liquidating things eight years prior to his death. During the last years everything was sold and all money was there for his care however much he should need or desire. He got to live like a king. Our attorney said it was the easiest trust to administer because after he died we just split the cash that was left three ways. Easy peasy.
I hope to have something very close to that for our kids.
DH's family situation may be sticky when his mom finally passes. She went to assisted living over two years ago and left an empty house. Rather than sell the house, DH's brother promptly moved his grown, somewhat derelict daughter into it at greatly reduced rent and all utilities paid. There is no lease and if she doesn't make enough money one month, she doesn't pay anything. Her boyfriend has now moved in. If MIL lives a long while longer, the house will need to be sold but her grand-daughter is now firmly entrenched in the house. I can just imagine it will not be an easy family matter since there is sibling anger over the house situation.
GeorgeParker
3-27-21, 10:46pm
DH's family situation may be sticky when his mom finally passes. She went to assisted living over two years ago and left an empty house. Rather than sell the house, DH's brother promptly moved his grown, somewhat derelict daughter into it at greatly reduced rent and all utilities paid. There is no lease and if she doesn't make enough money one month, she doesn't pay anything. Her boyfriend has now moved in. If MIL lives a long while longer, the house will need to be sold but her grand-daughter is now firmly entrenched in the house. I can just imagine it will not be an easy family matter since there is sibling anger over the house situation.Who created this situation by not calling all the siblings together as soon as your mother moved out to decide how decisions regarding the house would be made, how expenses would be paid, who could live in the house and under what circumstances, and all the other issues that were likely to come up? Who has legal authority and legal responsibility for maintaining the house and making sure expenses get paid? Why is there no written consensus among the siblings? Why have the siblings not been called together to resolve the obvious disagreements regarding the house and to put whatever agreement is worked out in writing? Why is everyone, or anyone, letting this situation fester, knowing it will be a much bigger personal, emotional, and legal mess if it isn't resolved in some manner before MIL dies? The time to work all this out was three years ago. Why is no one willing to do what needs to be done now, before it all gets worse and explodes?
GeorgeP - the sibs did confer initially and agree that the grand-daughter could live in the house until repairs were made - a year at most we were told. We are out of state and living our retirement lives so DH did not want to deal with it. I have always told him that there should have been a lease and agreement but I am just the daughter in law. He no longer has POA so it is what it is. A potential mess.
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