Relationship advice?

[gimmethesimplelife]

SO has been having a hard time lately - he was let to from the Convention Center when I was and has since only found PT work and is beating himself up about it. I know he"s looking and that it's rough and I've only been supportive. Any ideas on how to get him over this male employment or lack thereof FT guilt? It's really getting to him and it's not his fault. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

Should be let go above. Rob

[happystuff]

Personally, I think all you can do is be supportive; it is something he has to do and deal with, himself. But, again, being there and being supportive helps.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Not really. You can remind him to be grateful he is at least able to earn some money with part-time employment maybe and at least be glad for that.

I mean one may imagine it's like flipping a mental switch, that one can realize much of it is noone's fault*, or that being that much employment is just BS jobs or is destructive to the world anyway (not saying his employment, just talking employment in general), that being employed is not the measure of a human being. But it really doesn't matter, as it's not a conscious thing. One can know all that and so what? It's something about trying desperately and being unable to achieve one's aim, and having to submit oneself constantly to those who have the power to give you what you want (a FT job) but for whatever reason hire someone else. It's about living in a society oriented around work which one can't escape because one lives in it - we really can't escape our society at the most fundamental *emotional* level. And all that made much worse if one doesn't have enough money coming in and fears for the future financially as well.

* it was all caused by a global pandemic (managed badly by the powers that be as well), it's obviously in many ways noone's fault to have lost a job due to a global pandemic! But a lot of job losses are not actually anyone's fault, they are recessions etc.., but a global pandemic has to take the cake in being noone's fault.

[bae]

Any ideas on how to get him over this male employment or lack thereof FT guilt?

I'm not quite certain what you mean by this phrase.

[iris lilies]

First of all, let go of the idea that you can change what’s in his head at all. All you can do is control your own actions.

That said, you can be effusively and openly grateful to him if he cleans the house, cooks, does laundry, runs household errands, in other words all the domestic chores that frees you to concentrate on work. While you guys probably count on two incomes, it can be pretty luxurious to have one partner stay at home and take care of all the household stuff so that when you’re off work you can spend quality time together.


I say this not having any idea how much he likes or tolerates household chores, but truly if he can think of that as his job, he is making a significant contribution to your family’s mental and physical health.

[rosarugosa]

First of all, let go of the idea that you can change what’s in his head at all. All you can do is control your own actions.

That said, you can be effusively and openly grateful to him if he cleans the house, cooks, does laundry, runs household errands, in other words all the domestic chores that frees you to concentrate on work. While you guys probably count on two incomes, it can be pretty luxurious to have one partner stay at home and take care of all the household stuff so that when you’re off work you can spend quality time together.


I say this not having any idea how much he likes or tolerates household chores, but truly if he can think of that as his job, he is making a significant contribution to your family’s mental and physical health.

Yes, there are more ways to contribute to a household than with a paycheck.

[SteveinMN]

I say this not having any idea how much he likes or tolerates household chores, but truly if he can think of that as his job, he is making a significant contribution to your family’s mental and physical health.Yes, there are more ways to contribute to a household than with a paycheck.
+1. If you want, figure out what it would cost for a cleaning service, laundry, etc. It adds up. DW and I were quite happy with our arrangement of her working FT and me taking care of the house. It made the FT job that much more do-able.

[catherine]

I'm not quite certain what you mean by this phrase.

I agree with this comment.. is there some kind of bias he has about being a partner with less weight just because he has reduced earning potential? That might be hard to overcome if so. I'd encourage him to focus, not on housework, but on the activities he's always enjoyed but never had time for before. I would continue to share household responsibilities and not expect him to do all the vacuuming and cleaning. I tell my son that God opened a window of opportunity with his being let go from the restaurant at this time, and that maybe he's now meant to explore other aspects of his talents.

[Tammy]

Exactly. There were only about 3-4 years since 1981 where SO and I both worked full time. The part time one had so much flexibility to manage the kids and the errands and the household. It seemed like 2 full time jobs was a decrease in our quality of life.

[KayLR]

He's not defined by his job. That's the message he needs.

[Yppej]

Encourage him to volunteer. He can develop new skills and contacts and by seeing others less fortunate develop gratitude.

[frugal-one]

Encourage him to volunteer. He can develop new skills and contacts and by seeing others less fortunate develop gratitude.

Yeah, right... during a pandemic with underlying health conditions.

[ApatheticNoMore]

Yeah, right... during a pandemic with underlying health conditions.

:laff:

yea sometimes one starts to think about things and almost make mental plans as if things were normal, and then one remembers nothing is normal now.

[Tammy]

https://jezebel.com/whats-the-point-of-non-essential-work-1845891375

[gimmethesimplelife]

Thank You everyone for your input.

I very much agree that work the home is just as valuable as work outside the home. SO got a call yesterday for an interview for a more hours non-seasonal pt job at a liquor store a quick bus ride away in 85016. He's feeling better about things as if he doesn't get this, someone else will call.

Part of this issue I believe is male identity deriving from income and working - something I don't push nor believe in. I just wish he wouldn't torment himself. We are housed and fed and have money saved at the credit union - and have the Hallmark card moments that make life worth living. Can one realistically ask for more in today's reality? Can't this be good enough? It is for me. Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

He's not defined by his job. That's the message he needs.EXACTLY!!! Rob

[gimmethesimplelife]

I agree with this comment.. is there some kind of bias he has about being a partner with less weight just because he has reduced earning potential? That might be hard to overcome if so. I'd encourage him to focus, not on housework, but on the activities he's always enjoyed but never had time for before. I would continue to share household responsibilities and not expect him to do all the vacuuming and cleaning. I tell my son that God opened a window of opportunity with his being let go from the restaurant at this time, and that maybe he's now meant to explore other aspects of his talents.Actually we could just squeak by on my earnings alone due to our incredibly low housing costs - it would mean less saved and fewer trips to the border and to Colonia Kennedy in Nogales (Mexico) to visit family. I would be perfectly OK with this.....what an interesting situation though. ME as breadwinner - not a role I ever thought I'd star in - SO as "househusband" - i'd be OK with it but SO very much feels a need to financially contribute as does not view housework as equal contribution. Rob

[catherine]

Actually we could just squeak by on my earnings alone due to our incredibly low housing costs - it would mean less saved and fewer trips to the border and to Colonia Kennedy in Nogales (Mexico) to visit family. I would be perfectly OK with this.....what an interesting situation though. ME as breadwinner - not a role I ever thought I'd star in - SO as "househusband" - i'd be OK with it but SO very much feels a need to financially contribute as does not view housework as equal contribution. Rob

My DH and I are an interesting hodgepodge of traditional gender roles. I am the breadwinner--he is retired, but had kind of an enforced retirement at least 10 years ago. As much as I tell him the family budget is "our" money, when he gets angry or upset he'll talk about "your" money. On occasion the resentment flips and I'm the one who wishes I could get a break and live a retired life. He cooks and has very good mechanical sense so he knows exactly what to do when cars break down. He's the emotional one, I'm the stoic. In Dave Ramsey-speak, when it comes to finances, I'm the nerd and he's the free spirit.

Relationships are so funny. I told my daughter ages ago when she asked if she should be upset if she makes more than her boyfriend that marriages are a set of agreements--nothing more. As long as the terms of engagement are agreed upon and abided by, everyone is happy. There's really no right or wrong. If a couple agrees that each can find intimacy outside the marriage, there's nothing wrong with that. If they agree that one of them should get tanned and do nothing but look good while the other works 80 hours a week, there's nothing wrong with that. It's all about the agreements.

[frugal-one]

It is interesting. When I got my last job my DH was very upset. I made substantially more money and had "prestige" (if you can call it that?). He was so threatened, I actually believed he was going to leave me. Finally, I told him I would quit the job ... "no job is worth losing you". I told him I thought the whole purpose was to get the best job I could so we could be FI and travel and retire earlier. He came around. I think the kicker was that I said I would quit the job. I have to admit though that I was gobsmacked! Our money has always been combined. It is not your money or my money ... but ours.

[iris lilies]

Feelings surrounding money and household contributions are key to making it work. The actual contributions as measured in various ways are less important.


I always made more money than DH, a lot more money in many years. But we moved because of my job so that was part of his sacrifice. When we got married I had earning potential and he had significant financial assets, so there was “ equality” there of sorts, for those keeping score.


As the years went by his financial contribution to our household was extraordinary because he can build anything, fix anything ( well, except for our leaking roof. That was a ball buster.) And, he is tireless in doing it.

We threw our finances together 30 years ago when we first got married and so everything, or most things anyway, are in joint accounts. I have individual IRAs as does he. I have credit cards in my name only, but they’re paid from our joint checking account.

Anyway, about the househusband thing —I distinctly remember what a relief it was when he quit his corporate job which required 10 hours of work each day with little to no vacation and on call in the winter time. That was stressful.He then started working for himself and while he still worked 10 hour days, it was by choice. He could take a Friday afternoon off if he chose to do that. He could run an errand or two for our household, if necessary. The entire burden of our household was not on me when he quit the corporate job, and that was nice.

[JaneV2.0]

I made slightly more than my partner, and I've long paid my own way--both of which might have bothered the "wrong" man. I've figuratively had to arm-wrestle dates for the check--which would have been a red flag if any of them had put up more than a token objection. I've never been comfortable with "set in stone" gender roles.